Where would you rank these nba players all time?
- Thread starter Montana81
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I was a huge Lakers fan in the Kobe era so I'm aware my views are biased here. I also value winning over personal stats. So guys like Carmelo and James Harden don't rank as high on my list as they likely do most. That being said here's my list
Kobe top 5
Shaq and Duncan top 10
Garnett and Malone top 15
Steph top 20
Barkley top 25
Iverson top 30
Carter and Pierce Top 50
Allen and Kyrie top 75
Carmelo top 100
AD who knows. Top 10 when he's healthy and playing well. Top 200 otherwise. He needs to finish his career strong.
Kobe top 5
Shaq and Duncan top 10
Garnett and Malone top 15
Steph top 20
Barkley top 25
Iverson top 30
Carter and Pierce Top 50
Allen and Kyrie top 75
Carmelo top 100
AD who knows. Top 10 when he's healthy and playing well. Top 200 otherwise. He needs to finish his career strong.
I really liked Iverson too. Me and a buddy were talking about some of these guys. Some of them i just kind of threw in there.
But we were talking Kyrie vs Iverson. Shaq vs Kobe and a few others.
I was thinking he way overvalued Irving.
I always kind of felt Iverson was never given much to work with in Philly.
He has Irving and Iverson both in that top 50 range though and i disagreed. Was curious if i was crazy or if he was on that one. I just can’t put Irving top 50 all time at this point.
i’m always curious what people think about Carter too. He started off so strong and seemed to fall off quick. I can’t remember if he had injury issues. I know early in his career he got that “next jordan” label.
Regarding Carter, you got to give him “extra credit” IMO for how long he played too. Dude was in the league for forever.
carter basically became a catch & shoot guy and played until he was 43
lebron will be an all-star and probably 2nd or 3rd team all-NBA at 40
kobe was just about the single worst player in the league at 35
lebron will be an all-star and probably 2nd or 3rd team all-NBA at 40
kobe was just about the single worst player in the league at 35
People imagine there's a fixed gap of quality between players, but there isn't. If Abdul-Jabbar felt down one day, a dozen players could have stepped up and outplayed him. IIRC, Abdul-Jabbar was sick for game 7 of the playoffs and Magic stepped in and played center that day. You think, "Well, that's Magic Johnson." But think of it this way: somebody else stepped in and played PG that game.
If you're a writer and you write one perfect poem, you're admitted to The Club. You're judged by your best. So, Tiny Archibald had one perfect season (out of many very good seasons). Yet, he's rarely mentioned in these kinds of lists.
I suspect that when lots of people imagine themselves playing pick-up games with these greats that they can foresee how these excellent talents might mesh. But that's the product of so many unimaginable factors that you just never know.
If you're a writer and you write one perfect poem, you're admitted to The Club. You're judged by your best. So, Tiny Archibald had one perfect season (out of many very good seasons). Yet, he's rarely mentioned in these kinds of lists.
I suspect that when lots of people imagine themselves playing pick-up games with these greats that they can foresee how these excellent talents might mesh. But that's the product of so many unimaginable factors that you just never know.
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AI- top 40
Shaq- top 10
Kobe- top 15
Duncan- top 10
KG- top 30
Malone- top 20
Barkley- top 20
Curry- top 15
The rest are outside the top 50
Pretty accurate imo. I’d prob move AI to top 50 instead of 40…and Ray Allen is arguably top 50 as well. The rest I don’t think make the top 50 cut. Good to really good players in their era but in the entire history of the game I don’t think they truly leave a mark. Can find guys like that every 5-10 years
Allen Iverson- Top 40
Kyrie Irving- Top 30
Shaq- Top 10
Kobe- Top 10
Tim Duncan- Top 10
Kevin Garnett-Top 30
Karl Malone- Top 15
Charles Barkley- Top 15
Steph Curry- Top 12
Ray Allen- Top 30
Paul Pierce- Top 30
Carmelo Anthony- Top 30
Anthony Davis Top 15-30 (depending on how he finishes)
Vince Carter- Top 40
Kyrie Irving- Top 30
Shaq- Top 10
Kobe- Top 10
Tim Duncan- Top 10
Kevin Garnett-Top 30
Karl Malone- Top 15
Charles Barkley- Top 15
Steph Curry- Top 12
Ray Allen- Top 30
Paul Pierce- Top 30
Carmelo Anthony- Top 30
Anthony Davis Top 15-30 (depending on how he finishes)
Vince Carter- Top 40
Here's my all-time list.
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. LeBron James
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
7. Magic Johnson
8. Kevin Durant
9. Larry Bird
10. Tim Duncan
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Shaquille O'Neal
13. Steph Curry
14. Karl Malone
15. Bill Russell
16. Jerry West
17. David Robinson
18. Charles Barkley
19. Elgin Baylor
20. Dirk Nowitzki
21. Isiah Thomas
22. Kevin Garnett
23. Allen Iverson
24. Julius Erving
25. John Stockton
None of the other guys on your list would even be in the top 50, except Anthony Davis.
This! Also, should’ve been on that Dream Team IMHO.
Didn't he tear his ACL? Otherwise he would have been on the team.
I’d drop Kobe to top 10 instead of 5 and I’d swap Garnett with Steph. Otherwise this list is 👌🏻
Bill Russell at 15,really. Kevin Garnett in front of Larry Bird. Lebron ahead of Wilt Chamberlian.Cant see it. Ca4l Malome is top 10 easily
Greatest
Lebron
Mj
Kobe
Wilt
Steph Curry
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Kareem
Hakeem
Curry does things nobody has ever done. He's changed the game completely
He is covered like a glove every play and still gets shots off and they fall.
Lebron
Mj
Kobe
Wilt
Steph Curry
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Kareem
Hakeem
Curry does things nobody has ever done. He's changed the game completely
He is covered like a glove every play and still gets shots off and they fall.
Those are probably the 2 toughest players for me to rank. I can see arguments for Kobe being top 3 all time and arguments for top 10. I went higher because of my bias.
Steph is another one. He’s done things we’ve never seen before and has been elite. Sometimes I think he’s top 10 as well, other times I can’t decide if he’s a great basketball player or a great shooter. So he is the hardest one for me to decide. That being said if I was building a team and he was going to be the center piece, I wouldn’t be upset about it.
Allen Iverson- top 30
Kyrie Irving- top 100
Shaq- top 10
Kobe- top 15
Tim Duncan- top 10
Kevin Garnett- top 25
Karl Malone- top 25
Charles Barkley- top 20
Steph Curry- top 15
Ray Allen- top 75
Paul Pierce- top 100
Carmelo Anthony- top 100
Anthony Davis- top 100
Vince Carter- top 100
Kyrie Irving- top 100
Shaq- top 10
Kobe- top 15
Tim Duncan- top 10
Kevin Garnett- top 25
Karl Malone- top 25
Charles Barkley- top 20
Steph Curry- top 15
Ray Allen- top 75
Paul Pierce- top 100
Carmelo Anthony- top 100
Anthony Davis- top 100
Vince Carter- top 100
70+points games :
Wilt had 6, in 13 &1/2 seasons
Elgin Baylor: 1
David Thompson:1
David Robinson: 1
Kobe: 1
Booker: 1
Donovan Mitchell: 1
Lillard: 1
Jordan’s highest-ever was 69 points.
60+:
Only six players have scored 60 or more points on more than one occasion: Wilt Chamberlain (32 times), Kobe Bryant (6 times), Damian Lillard (5 times), Michael Jordan (4 times), James Harden (4 times), and Elgin Baylor (3 times).
50+ point games:
Wilt: 118
MJ: 31
Kobe: 25
Harden: 23
Elgin Baylor: 17
Lillard: 15
Rick Barry: 14
LeBron: 14
Steph Curry: 12
Iverson: 11
Kareem: 10
Bernard King: 8
Dominique: 7
Maravich: 6
40+ point games:
271: Wilt (in 1,045 games)(At about halfway through Wilt’s 13+ seasons, his brand-new coach cut in half Wilt’s previously allowed fg attempts/game…made Wilt start passing way more, to his brand-new and better teammates. Otherwise Wilt would’ve had a lot more 40-pt gms, if he’d wanted to. But when he passed more, his teams began winning at the Championship level.
173: MJ (1,072 games)
122: Kobe (1,346 games)
101: James Harden (964 games)
88: Elgin Baylor (846 games)
79: Iverson (914 games)
77: Oscar Robertson (1,040 games)
74: LaBron (1,395 games)
70: kareem (1,560 games)
70: Rick Barry (794 games)
65: Durant (986 games)
62: Steph Curry (882 games)
60: Westbrook (1,094)
55: Lillard (769 games)
49: Shaq: (1,207 games)
47: bird (897 games)
44: Marl Malone (1,476 games)
36: Carmelo: (1,260 games)
35: Maravich (658 games)
30: Patrick Ewing (1,183 games)
29: Doncic (330 games)
20: Nowitzki: 1,522 games
17: Jokic (596 games)
9: Dr. J. (836 games)
5: Tim Duncan (1,392 gms)
6: Magic (906 games)
Zero: Bill Russell (37, twice)(963gms)
Triple-doubles:
Wilt: 78 officially, but an additional approximate 275 triple-doubles were unofficially calculated for Wilt, using old game footage and newspaper articles, so perhaps around 350 triple-doubles (in 1,045 games). (Blocks and steals stats began being kept the season after Wilt retired.)
Westbrook: 198 career triple-doubles (in 1,094 games)
Oscar Robertson: 181
Magic: 138
Jason Kidd: 107
LaBron: 107
Jokic: 105
Michael Jordan: 28
Wilt and Westbrook have both had 20/20/20 games
Wilt had fifteen 40+ rb gms
Shaq’s most ever was 28.
Career rebounds/game:
22.89 Wilt
22.45 Russell
16.22 Pettit
15.61 Lucas
13.99 Unseld
13.12Rodman
12.49 Hayes
12.29 Gilmore
12.26 Moses Malone
11.94 Bridges
11.78 Howard
11.18 Kareem
11.16 KAT
11.11 Olajuwan
10.85 Shaq
10.64 Robinson
10.53 Jokic
10.40 AD
10.37 Love
10.19 Cousins
9.81 Patrick Ewing
9.52 Oakley
9.13 Parish
From a 2018 Wash Post article:
“Before (Kevin) Love’s 31-point, 31-rebound game for the Timberwolves against the Knicks in 2010, the previous player to reach the milestone was Moses Malone for the Rockets in February 1982…Said Hornets teammate Kemba Walker: ‘Never been part of something like that. It was incredible. Yeah, it was incredible to see those kinds of numbers and be a part of it. Yeah, it was crazy.’ Wilt made 30-30 games a common occurrence: (Dwight) Howard is the ninth NBA player to record a 30-30 game since 1963, though that list does not include Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s 37-point, 30-rebound game in 1978. Wilt has the most 30-30 games with 124.”
Wilt vs Russell, head-to-head:
In a total of 142 matchups, Wilt averaged 28.7 PPG and 28.7 RPG. Bill averaged 14.5 points and 23.7 rebounds. Bill won 85 times, Wilt 57. Wilt once recorded around 55 rebounds in a game vs Russell.
From Bleacher Report:
“He (Wilt) led the league in minutes per game nine times. He still holds the record at 45.8 mpg for his career.
His 50.4 ppg average in 1961-62 is an NBA record along with his 27.2 rpg game in 1960-61.
Chamberlain never fouled out of a game.
He won 11 rebounding titles, seven scoring titles and played for two record-setting NBA championship teams.
A 7'1" center, Chamberlain led the league in total assists in 1967-68, averaging 8.6 assists a game (2nd place). Chamberlain is the only center to lead the league in assists (Russell's career-best average was 5.3 assists/game in 1964-65).
The same year he scored NBA-record 100 points in a single game (Russell averaged a career-best 18.9 points/game in '61-'62), he led the league with 25.7 rebounds per game.”
Imagine if Wilt were allowed to play physical or travel/take steps with the ball, or of he had had a longer career. His per-game stats dwarf most of those whom we label as top-10 players, often doubling even the likes of Shaq and Kareem in rebounds. He would’ve recorded a quintuple double-double, had those stats been officially kept. He played many more minutes per game than most current players.
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Two alphas — MJ and Wilt — argued over who the GOAT was:
From a Dec, 2021 article from The Sports Rush:
“For the NBA’s 50th Anniversary, the NBA released their top-50 players of all-time list, in 1996, and 1997 saw all 50 of those players (minus Pete Maravich and Shaquille O’Neal) show up to a lavish event. Of course, the likes of Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain were also there.
According to Blazers legend Bill Walton, all 50 players, at a particular time during the event, were allowed to mingle amongst themselves (no media, coaches, or administration were allowed) in a room that even David Stern could not enter. While everybody was exchanging pleasantries, laughing and having a good time, Michael and Wilt were sitting alone at a table in the corner. ‘Over in the corner is Wilt and Michael Jordan. They’re sitting at a table, arguing vociferously as to who the greatest of all time was. Intense as could be. David Stern comes in the room and says, ‘Okay it’s time to go.’ Everyone is lining up to go and Michael and Wilt are still going at it.’
They finally stand up, the conversation ends. Wilt, who always has the last word in everything, looks down at Michael and says, ‘Just remember, when you played, they changed all the rules to make it easier for you to dominate. When I played, they changed all the rules to make it harder for me to dominate.’”
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Walton, who never exaggerated, says Wilt was super strong when throwing a football:
Walton said he witnessed Wilt throw a football, underhanded, 90 yards.
“Yes, 90 yards…underhanded, and OVER the guy’s head.” (Some guy who had run way down the beach, whom Wilt kept waiving to go farther down the beach, as Wilt was trying to convince Walton he could throw a football.) I don’t know how far away the guy was, but Wilt threw it over his head. Wilt was always trying to show off his athletic ability, even in later years.
“He (Wilt) was a lot like Magic (Johnson, in how he commanded respect when he spoke). Wilt could do anything! We were surprised the ball stayed inside the Earth’s gravitational force!”
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how do we know it’s unstoppable when nobody tried to play defense? and why was the biggest guy on the floor fading away? been hearing his propaganda from sonny hill & harvey pollack my entire life
Every foul was called back then (relative to today). Shaq would’ve fouled out in about two seconds. Wilt never fouled out because, like the other players, he had been trained not to foul. You had to have more time and teamwork and more accurate skill at shooting the ball in the halfcourt, or else try to outrun the other team on fastbreaks. They say 60% of Wilt’s shots were the fadeaway you saw in that video. He was fading away in lots of different ways, and I think players today would have a hard time guarding his shot. Imagine if Wilt could’ve used his body even more (no fouls called) to bully, bump and also travel to dunk. He could run and dunk free-throws, and college admins found out about it, so they outlawed it before his first college game.
delusional, he was a caveman compared to modern players
he waved the ball above his head while cutters traipsed through the lane unmolested and nobody even thought about a hard double
he waved the ball above his head while cutters traipsed through the lane unmolested and nobody even thought about a hard double
Multiple sources say he benched around 600 pounds, and Schwarzeneggar has said several times that Wilt was stronger than him and could lift him with one hand/arm.
yeah he’d beat shaq or duncan in the decathlon. doesn’t really speak to your contentions about his era of basketball
“Wilt Chamberlain was indeed the most dominant player ever.” - Shaq
“In my eyes, Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest basketball player ever.” - Pippen
“Repeat The List, man! Repeat The List: ‘Wilt, Me, Mike.’ Say it with me!” - Kobe
“You see now all the records that guys are trying to break. Wilt Chamberlain is always the first name on the list. Always humming behind the scenes.” — K. Durant
“Flat out Monster and ridiculously/freakish athlete!! Would be dominant in any era — point blank.” - LaBron
“He cast a shadow of accomplishment that will never be achieved by another player.” - David Stern
“Wilt was unbelievable. He was really a superlative athlete, and I think it’s really lost on people, these days, because they don’t see that very often.” - Kareem
“I would love to see (Wilt) play against some of these centers today. It would be pretty embarrassing for them, to be candid with you.” — Jerry West
“There will never, ever, be another Wilt Chamberlain.” - Magic Johnson (who used to frequently play pick-up games against him)
“He was so freakin’ athletic. I mean he woulda been able to play in any era.” — Embiid
“Well, I stepped in on Wilt again, and he just picked me up and moved me out of the way. And that was it. When he picked me up, here, and put me down, over there…. I thought he was the baddest.”
= ⬆️ That was a quote from Bob Lanier (6’10.5”, 250lbs), when asked about the time Wilt “really scared” him.
“He stopped me dead in my tracks with his arm, hugged me and lifted me off the floor, with my feet dangling. It scared the hell out of me. When I went to the free-throw line, my legs were still shaking.” - KC Jones
“He lifted me up, with one hand, like nothing,” Schwarzenegger said. “They (Wilt and Andre The Giant) were so powerful. It was ridiculous.”
Wilt was benching 465 lbs at age 59 — Shaq’s greatest amount lifted, even in his prime, was said to be 460, but Shaq himself says it was actually 475, so we’ll go with that.
Here is a useless, but sorta amusing, video comparing the physiques & jumping abilities of 50 y/o Wilt vs. 50 y/o Shaq.
Size & height comparison video #1: Shaq & Wilt & Patrick Ewing standing side-by-side
Size & height comparison video #2: Walton, Wilt, Shaq, Russell, Kareem, all standing together
Schwarzenegger, who was Mr. Olympia seven consecutive years, says his best bench, ever, was 525. Shwarzenneger said he saw Wilt bench 500, in 1984, while filming, “Conaan: The Destroyer”. Wilt would’ve been 48 y/o then.
Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson’s max bench was 425-450 lbs
Dwight Howard reportedly benched 365.
LeBron’s max is unclear, but was said to have been 405. (It could’ve been more than that, but idk.)
Ben Wallace’s reported max: 460 lbs
Several folks said they saw Wilt lift around 600 pounds, at various times throughout his life, and Wilt also claimed, “Around 600” pounds.”
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LeBron is 2nd, all-time, in 30+ point games, with around 535, in 1,421 games played.
MJ and Wilt got to right around that same number (as LeBron’s around 535) in approximately 360 fewer games.
MJ is first, with 562, in 1,072 games.
And Wilt is third, with 516, in 1,045 games.
Kareem had 429 in 1,560 games.
When comparing Wilt & Kareem, to me, it’s interesting that Wilt had 87 more 30-point games in 515 fewer games played.
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And, UK-related:
Most 30+ point games in 2023:
45: Shai-Gilgeous-Alexander
44: Embiid
44: Doncic
42: Tatum
39: Antetokounmpa
33: Lillard
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Most consecutive NBA games averaging 40+ points:
1st: Wilt, with five hundred and fifteen consecutive games (515)
2nd place: 33 by Elgin Baylor
3rd place: 23 by Kobe
4th place: 22 by Rick Barry
5th place: 19 by James Harden
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In the 1957 NCAA Championship game, UNC defeated Kansas by one point in triple overtime (their 2nd-straight, triple OT win of the tournament), and their strategy against Wilt was to double- and triple-team him, and slow the game down, to counter his speed, athleticism, and field-goal-shooting skills. Toward the end of his life, Wilt almost didn’t return to Lawrence when KU tried to honor him. He told the crowd he was ashamed he hadn’t won them a title. It was expected. His KU coach, before the season, had told the media, “You give me Wilt Chamberlain and four cheerleaders, and we’ll win the NCAA Tournament.”
Here’s very short clip of just one sequence, encapsulating his athleticism (jumping, blocking, dribbling/out-running and scoring, all in the same play). His larger-sized body would’ve caused the size of his heart to also be extra large, and when you combine that large heart with extra agile legs, good lungs and extra strong muscles…so, in a way, it’s kind of like the situation with the racehorse, Secretariat, who was so fast and powerful because his larger heart (2 & 1/2 times larger than a normal horse’s heart) allowed him to displace oxygen/refuel at a much faster rate, resulting in excellent stamina and athletic displays.
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Boston’s strategy against Wilt was to not have Russell guard him one-on-one, but to double- and triple-team him, and sometimes have one player focus on hitting Wilt’s hands with their fists. Wilt sometimes had hands so swollen he couldn’t hold onto the ball. One of the players who was told to punch at Wilt’s hands said, “People think fouls in today’s games are hard, but when we played Wilt, those were REAL fouls.”
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And finally, in regards to living in Wilt’s shadow, how would you like to be KU’s #1-ever points-scorer Danny Manning — a guy who scored 2,951 collegiate points (almost more than any other guy in college history, and 813 more points than UK’s most-ever points-scorer, Dan Issel [though Issel only played three seasons, compared to Manning’s four, and Issel WAS clearly capable of scoring 800 in a season]), and (anyway), with you being Danny, imagine you’ve just won the 1988 MOP Award in a super-fast-paced championship game (it was tied 50-50 at halftime), where you led a bunch of scrubs to a championship, and you finished with 31 pts, 18 rebounds, and five steals, and this was your second Final-Four (the first one you lost in 1986, when stupid Louisville, a team you’d already beaten twice that year, won it all, and you barely lost in the Final Four to Duke after one of your players tears his ACL in the game, and you also lose because the refs kept ignoring Jay Bilas’s goaltending, but I digress…), yet, even after all your career points and your ‘88 championship and the ‘86 Final Four, and your Naismith Award… STILL, the best you’ll EVER be in KU fans’ eyes is the SECOND-best guy in school history (second to Wilt — who’s no longer in the top-25 in points in school history —- of course, he only played two years there…). I guess, Danny, you’ll always have the awards and championship, but you’ll never be the world-wide legend that Wilt is. How does that feel? But then, further, how would you like to later find out that a FEMALE basketball player actually scored a LOT more career points (at KU) than either you OR Wilt?! (Wichitan Lynette Woodard scored close to 3,700 points at KU — about 700 more than Danny. After leaving KU, Lynette was hired as a Harlem Globetrotter player. Wilt was actually a Harlem Globetrotter, too, for awhile, after he left KU and before he joined the NBA.)
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To help UK fans put some perspective on Wilt’s ability, Wilt played 40 fewer collegiate games than three-time All-American Kyle Macy, yet scored more points.
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Back then, the rules prevented offensive players from using their shoulders and body bumps to power through defensive players to get closer to the basket before shooting the ball, and traveling violations were called MUCH more strictly, preventing traveling and bumping to get open for field goal attempts. If Wilt had been allowed to move more freely and aggressively with his power and the ball — if he hadn’t had to rely on so many very-difficult, mid-range fade-aways — if he hadn’t had to reply on his exceptional footspeed, height on dunks, and great field-goal shooting skill on very difficult shots, he could’ve bullied and traveled his way to way more points than he deserved…which is what the modern game has become…well THAT, and a 30-foot, 1-on-5, short-shot-clock-so-less-team-strategy three-point contest. Wilt could play and dominate, back THEN, without fouling (he never ever fouled-out of an NBA game AND he played more minutes than anyone, ever), but could Shaq or LeBron ALSO dominate back then? …if they weren’t allowed to bump the players out of the way, which is how they’ve made their livings? Wilt was shooting the ball from practically all over the floor. There’s a video of him making four, three-point-range, hook-shots, in a row, and sorta trash talking. And his fadeaways were far-out mid-range shots — turnarounds with great difficulty. He could’ve made threes, and had even more points. LeBron could’ve done ok back then, because of his athleticism and skill at shooting, but I don’t think Shaq could’ve — not without having to rely on “bully ball” and fouling out. And he couldn’t dribble and run on the fast break to beat the defense like Wilt.
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He's top 4 all-time, but he's not #1.
Two titles has a lot to do with that. Winning at the highest level of the sport matters.
But I get it. If I was a Kansas fan, I'd probably try to create an argument for Wilt being the greatest of all time. After all, he is at least in the discussion and he was incredible.
I pretty much agree with you. I don’t know that he was necessarily the greatest of all time. Good chance he wasn’t. But his stats, and videos, and witness accounts, as well as what good players and coaches say …all factor in to helping us all figure out — for ourselves — where he MIGHT be ranked.
Comparing eras may be impossible, and relying solely on stats isn’t smart. There’s an old saying: “Stats are like bikinis — they show a whole lot, but not everything.”
