I wanted to find out how the games went and see nothing but a pissing contest with private and public schools.
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Okay, so the Catholic Foundation works with elementary schools. How does that really change the point I was making about schools directly contacting athletes who have not reached out to them first? It's just a side track that has no relevance to the main point.
By the way, I wasn't picking on Trinity. I used them as an example, although I do have direct knowledge of some of their actions.
I wanted to find out how the games went and see nothing but a pissing contest with private and public schools.
I will agree with you that you can't always believe what parents tell you about their kids. In my case, I'm not getting it second hand or third hand. I will leave you with a thought as well. We are all fans of the schools we attended and like to think they do no wrong. Don't let yourself fall into the trap of thinking your school plays completely within the rules and other schools are the bad guys. Lots of schools cheat. I don't think it's all that uncommon in metropolitan areas.Everybody has firsthand knowledge...but it always comes second or third hand. Psst...parents make shit up. I cannot tell you how many times I hear parents say...my son got a full ride offer in baseball to Cumberland College etc.... NOBODY gets a full ride in baseball. Nobody gets a full ride under D1 in any non revenue sports. But I hear all the time....so and so offered him a full ride to Bellarmine and it really was tuition assistance and books and oh their tuition gets dropped from $40k to $25K. What better brag then....my son got offered a scholly to Trinity. Nothing better than that. That's like getting drafted by the New York Yankees. Great brag dad....but not true. So dont believe what you are told by bragging sports dads or moms.
I would agree with you, he was just an all around good guy. In his day he was a large lad himself, hence the nickname Teenie.I had heard that he was a "player's coach" from several guys that played for him. He was very instrumental in turning the progam around.
Check back next Monday unless you have a crystal ball.
You'll have to show me where I have defended public schools against Trinity. In fact if you can read, you would have noticed that I have regularly said both public and private schools cheat and it should all be cleaned up. I only used Trinity as an example and specifically said in that post that I wasn't singling them out. You're just over sensitive because you are an alumni of that school.You said Trinity uses the Catholic Foundation and clearly went on to trash it by saying you'd love to see how many Catholics vs non Catholics or grad school attenders got money...Those waskally catholics all in a conspiracy.... when in fact it is all grade schoolers.
If you are trying to make a main point it is best to not undercut your own point by factual errors that are easy to disprove with something as simple as google. I know you think you mean well by defending the public schools against mean ole Trinity. Truth is, if you love football and want the state to be recognized as a good football state, then Trinity should be applauded for what it is doing. Trinity takes football very seriously and devotes a lot of time and effort into making it the best. They could lose to Male....and frankly Male recruits as much as anyone....but it should be applauded for taking the sport seriously too. I say that because there are a lot of Public Schools like Eastern who are horrible and for no good reason other than their admin does not care about athletics. It shows on the field.
Actually, the goofy people over the school board decided that they wouldn't meet Jim's demands and believe me, they weren't anything for them to turn him down... When Matney left, it took the football program with it... I'm happy for Jim and I can't understand why someone hasn't tried to come in and pluck Jim away from JC...
I didn't want to go there because we have a couple of folks who are taking this personally even though I haven't ever said Catholic schools cheat more than some public schools. But it seems pretty evident that not all funds come from their financial aid source. Notice at the bottom of the page DrH. Lector linked that it saysThe elephant in the room is this...what is the difference between a "sponsorship" and a "scholarship"?
I didn't want to go there because we have a couple of folks who are taking this personally even though I haven't ever said Catholic schools cheat more than some public schools. But it seems pretty evident that not all funds come from their financial aid source. Notice at the bottom of the page DrH. Lector linked that it says
Please note, students playing KHSAA sports (archery, golf, soccer, football, cross country, swimming, wrestling, basketball, bowling, baseball, tennis, fishing and track) are eligible to participate only when the tuition is paid by an immediate family member, except for that portion provided from the school through the financial aid process.
This certainly implies that they have student athletes whose tuition is paid by other sources than family members and financial aid.
Where has anyone in this thread tried to say that public schools don't also cheat? Not sure what your point is about showing questionable actions by public schools. Both public and private schools cheat. All of it needs to be cleaned up.Ok. I have to say something because some of these comments are ridiculous.
1) Catholic schools do not provide athletic scholarships. Financial aide if received is based upon parents tax return and determined by an outside 3rd party. Random identification numbers are assigned to each application upon submissions identity is not known.
2) in this alternative universe where Catholic schools hand out scholarships, why does the kyhsaa not step in? What about the IRS? These scholarships need to be reported on your tax return or it is tax fraud.
There is a public school playing this weekend where several of the players are a year older than others in their grade because they completed 5th grade at the county school and then repeated the 5th grade at the city school within the same county. Surprisingly these players are much better than their peers.
Other schools have players on their roster who do not even live in the district. Parents sign over custodianship to someone who lives in the district. Student still lives at home with parents but because paperwork has been filed with the state, no rules have technically been broken.
There is a school playing this weekend who for the 2nd year in a row has a player who moved into the district from eastern kentucky to play QB.
When semester is over will move back
Same school somehow has 6-7 d1 players on its current roster while the entire state of ky has historically produced 5-6 d1 players annually. Where did all this talent come from?
Ok. I have to say something because some of these comments are ridiculous.
1) Catholic schools do not provide athletic scholarships. Financial aide if received is based upon parents tax return and determined by an outside 3rd party. Random identification numbers are assigned to each application upon submissions identity is not known.
2) in this alternative universe where Catholic schools hand out scholarships, why does the kyhsaa not step in? What about the IRS? These scholarships need to be reported on your tax return or it is tax fraud.
There is a public school playing this weekend where several of the players are a year older than others in their grade because they completed 5th grade at the county school and then repeated the 5th grade at the city school within the same county. Surprisingly these players are much better than their peers.
Other schools have players on their roster who do not even live in the district. Parents sign over custodianship to someone who lives in the district. Student still lives at home with parents but because paperwork has been filed with the state, no rules have technically been broken.
There is a school playing this weekend who for the 2nd year in a row has a player who moved into the district from eastern kentucky to play QB.
When semester is over will move back
Same school somehow has 6-7 d1 players on its current roster while the entire state of ky has historically produced 5-6 d1 players annually. Where did all this talent come from?
I stand corrected. I read that differently than you interpreted it. I read it to mean they cannot participate in the online tuition payment system if their tuition isn't paid by a direct family member. I think your interpretation makes more sense and is probably accurate.Wow. You are really having a struggle with this issue. No actually it is pretty clear. That is a rule across the board for all student athletes. It is a standard rule for everyone. If you do not pay your own tuition...(except via financial aid) you are ineligible for KHSAA sports.
I stand corrected. I read that differently than you interpreted it. I read it to mean they cannot participate in the online tuition payment system if their tuition isn't paid by a direct family member. I think your interpretation makes more sense and is probably accurate.
Where has anyone in this thread tried to say that public schools don't also cheat? Not sure what your point is about showing questionable actions by public schools. Both public and private schools cheat. All of it needs to be cleaned up.
I hope you are accurate about your belief that student athletes at some Catholic schools aren't getting funds from other sources, but how would you know that? Quoting financial aid criteria doesn't really address that issue.
I can assure you ZERO Catholic schools place such an emphasis on athletics that they would risk involving themselves in some of the nonsense claimed in this thread.
For those that argue Catholic schools have an unfair advantage athletically, you could create an All State team in just about every sport of kids who left / were asked to leave a private school. In many ways. it is the public schools that have an advantage.
I have no problem with parents sending their kids to the school that best fits their needs. That said, I think there should be a 7th class for Ky Football. It should be solely for all the private schools. They can fight it out for the private school championship. Private and public schools do not play on the same level field simply because privates have no designated attendance boundaries.I think you quoted the wrong post there friend. Never said Trinity(or any other private school for that matter) enrolled kids like Rondale, James Quick, Jason Hatcher, etc... because they were going to find a renewable energy source to save the world. I said what should they do? Not take the advantages in life their athletic prowess has bestowed them with? You're on a UK message board so I assume you're a UK fan, are you pissed that we take under-educated, under-privileged, kids from outside the state and give them a chance to better their lives? Whether that's through athletics or academics? I just don't understand the mentality of hey kid stay in your shit hole surroundings because by no choice of your own that's where your parents live. Instead of the mentality being seize the opportunity your speed, height, hand eye coordination, has given you. Same for kids who score 34 on ACT when they're 12 or 13 years old, should they just stay put instead of using that to go to prestigious school that will help them excel and expand their knowledge?
Again, not sure about your point on the trickle down effect of education? I specifically said people need to vote correctly and for people who want to try and fix the problems with schools. That starts as you mentioned at the federal level and goes all the way down to the common councilmen.
don't disagree at all. as i noted in my earlier posts in the thread I got a better education and had better teachers my 2 years at Eastern than I did at Trinity.I have no problem with parents sending their kids to the school that best fits their needs. That said, I think there should be a 7th class for Ky Football. It should be solely for all the private schools. They can fight it out for the private school championship. Private and public schools do not play on the same level field simply because privates have no designated attendance boundaries.
The ONLY thing privates have going for them is that the school can "cull" the students, keeping only the focused, disciplined kids. If you took all the disruptive and special needs kids out of the public schools, they would easily outperform private schools. Private school supporters may disagree, but the bottom line is this: Public schools can better afford the better teachers. There are a few exceptions where a great private school teacher stays in the private school because of a calling or some other reason, but generally speaking, the better teachers are in public schools.
I have no problem with parents sending their kids to the school that best fits their needs. That said, I think there should be a 7th class for Ky Football. It should be solely for all the private schools. They can fight it out for the private school championship. Private and public schools do not play on the same level field simply because privates have no designated attendance boundaries.
The ONLY thing privates have going for them is that the school can "cull" the students, keeping only the focused, disciplined kids. If you took all the disruptive and special needs kids out of the public schools, they would easily outperform private schools. Private school supporters may disagree, but the bottom line is this: Public schools can better afford the better teachers. There are a few exceptions where a great private school teacher stays in the private school because of a calling or some other reason, but generally speaking, the better teachers are in public schools.
Completely not true. No dispute regarding the earning potential advantage to public schools. Most if not all of the teachers at the private schools do it because of the lack of "noise" and lack of discipline that many in the public schools face. They also do it because they want to send their own kids to that school and most teachers get free tuition. Has nothing to do with money. Everyone hastheir own reasons. Also it's not just the troubled kids who you believe if they were gone things would be equal. It also has a great deal to do with the ever changing ptograms, testing, common core that teachers get sick of having to deal with year in and year out. This is alleviated to an extent at private schools.
There are exceptions but generally speaking, public school teachers, are better. In fact, one of the best teachers I've ever known chose to leave the public school in favor of the private. It had nothing to do with her ability to deal with kids or curriculum. It was a matter of her faith. In many cases, private school teachers are not even certified teachers.Completely not true. No dispute regarding the earning potential advantage to public schools. Most if not all of the teachers at the private schools do it because of the lack of "noise" and lack of discipline that many in the public schools face. They also do it because they want to send their own kids to that school and most teachers get free tuition. Has nothing to do with money. Everyone hastheir own reasons. Also it's not just the troubled kids who you believe if they were gone things would be equal. It also has a great deal to do with the ever changing ptograms, testing, common core that teachers get sick of having to deal with year in and year out. This is alleviated to an extent at private schools.
I had a son who played basketball and was offered scholarships to play in college. He choose to just be a college student instead, so he quit playing after high school. We were approached when playing AAU about if we had interest in attending a Catholic high school in Louisville. I'm not going to say which one. We were also told there were financial aid opportunities available. We weren't interested, so we didn't look into it anymore. I'm not sure if we would have had to qualify for the aid, or if it was a straight up offer that some, or all, of his tuition would paid by someone else. Our high school lost two or three other football/basketball players to one of the Louisville Catholic high schools. They were approached as my kid was and all of them, to my knowledge, received financial aid to attend. I don't know how to characterize those actions other than recruiting. I'm sure some of the public high schools in Louisville also recruit, but they don't have the ability to do it like private schools who are not bound by counties or even states. All of it needs cleaned up.
I don't know anything about northern Kentucky private schools, but I would assume if you went through Catholic elementary schools, they probably assumed you would also attend Catholic high school. None of the kids I'm familiar with attended Catholic school until high school. They were approached about their interest because they were prominent athletes.
IMO, it's not an issue of cheating. It's simply a matter of FACT that private schools attract kids from a larger area than the typical attendance districts that restrict public schools. If fact, private schools have no boundaries. In theory, parents of a kid from Pikeville could choose to enroll their child at Trinity and pay the tuition themselves. Would be completely legal and within rules but gives Trinity an advantage that Pikeville or public schools do not have. If one thinks the khsaa does not get involved in kids that make questionable transfers to other public schools, I can tell you from experience that person would be wrong.These guys are conspiracy theorists. Flat Earthers. 9-11 truthers. There are no secrets ever kept secret. You really have to live in an alternate universe to think that Trinity would not be the subject of a secret investigation by the media or some other source just hoping to bring it down. The greatest evidence that it doesnt happen is that there is no evidence at all in the public domain.
These people make me laugh. They literally think Trinity High School goes out and hands a kid and his family an athletic scholarship for $15,000 a year to come play football.Agreed. The main advantage is a taxpayer paid free tuition.
IMO, it's not an issue of cheating. It's simply a matter of FACT that private schools attract kids from a larger area than the typical attendance districts that restrict public schools. If fact, private schools have no boundaries. In theory, parents of a kid from Pikeville could choose to enroll their child at Trinity and pay the tuition themselves. Would be completely legal and within rules but gives Trinity an advantage that Pikeville or public schools do not have. If one thinks the khsaa does not get involved in kids that make questionable transfers to other public schools, I can tell you from experience that person would be wrong.
I have no problem with private schools. Just in athletics, put them in a separate class.
Not that simple. As per your statement, it takes deceit to make it work in many cases. In my work as a school admin, I encountered issues in which the khsaa would not recognize such a transfer from one public school to another. In deed, it is curious how so many exchange students can come here and immediately play soccer.If you want to play at any public school you simply move into that district or find someone to let you use their address for your mailing address and you say you live there....and then go there for FREE with a taxpayer paid scholarship. So someone in Louisville could do the same thing in reverse to Pikeville but for free. The boundary issue is just a simple hurdle that can be easily stepped over if you wish to go to any Pub school. They come from Guatemala to go to Pub for free so what is the difference when borders and boundaries are meaningless.
Not that simple. As per your statement, it takes deceit to make it work in many cases. In my work as a school admin, I encountered issues in which the khsaa would not recognize such a transfer from one public school to another. In deed, it is curious how so many exchange students can come here and immediately play soccer.
Again, the solution is SIMPLE. Private schools can have their own class and their own championship. Call it the KHSAA Private School championship. Why would that be a problem?
If you want to play at any public school you simply move into that district or find someone to let you use their address for your mailing address and you say you live there....and then go there for FREE with a taxpayer paid scholarship. So someone in Louisville could do the same thing in reverse to Pikeville but for free. The boundary issue is just a simple hurdle that can be easily stepped over if you wish to go to any Pub school. They come from Guatemala to go to Pub for free so what is the difference when borders and boundaries are meaningless.
These people make me laugh. They literally think Trinity High School goes out and hands a kid and his family an athletic scholarship for $15,000 a year to come play football.
It’s not even worth explaining how it actually works.
That's the narrative you are pushing, but it's not what anyone really thinks. It's always humorous when people tell others what they are thinking without any way of actually knowing it.I don't think that Trinity would care in Football. Aside from Male occasionally it is a running-clock waste of time. Trinity has developed its own "travel" league of peers in Cinci, Indy, Nashville etc.... so it would clearly make due. Trinity has won the state in basketball only 2 times so I am not sure that if not for football dominance this would be an issue. Do you guys whine about KCD? Collegiate? or countless other private schools with open borders and who also give out tuition assistance in order to bring "diversity" to their student body but are weak on the field of athletics. X is the superior "country club" sport program and no one complains about those sports because it fits the narrative....rich kids can swim and play golf so who cares.
It all boils down...IMO....to the bigotry of looking at a "black" Trinity kid and assuming that his parents couldn't possibly pull that off or care enough about education without some white benefactor pulling the strings for him. Its really sad that a lot of people buy into that narrative.
Ohio has 7 classes with the top 10% of schools according to enrollment playing Division 1. This year I believe there are around 720 schools in Ohio playing football, thus there are 72 in D1. The other roughly 650 schools get split evenly between the remaining 6 divisions. I think Kentucky should do something similar but split it between 5 divisions.I think ohio has seven, with 1being the biggest, 7 the smallest.
Narrative? I can't speak for what anyone else is saying, but the idea that Trinity is handing kids scholarships for athletics before they even step on campus is crazy talk. That's not how it works, period. I've had this conversation hundreds of times with non-private school people since my time at Trinity over a decade ago. This also doesn't count the countless times this conversation is had on this site anytime Trinity or St. X is mentioned.That's the narrative you are pushing, but it's not what anyone really thinks. It's always humorous when people tell others what they are thinking without any way of actually knowing it.
He basically accused anyone who questions Trinity's "recruitment" of athletes to be racist. In my opinion that says a lot about his character. My comment was directed at that and had nothing to do with your comment. So I'm not sure why you quoted me.Narrative? I can't speak for what anyone else is saying, but the idea that Trinity is handing kids scholarships for athletics before they even step on campus is crazy talk. That's not how it works, period. I've had this conversation hundreds of times with non-private school people since my time at Trinity over a decade ago. This also doesn't count the countless times this conversation is had on this site anytime Trinity or St. X is mentioned.
He basically accused anyone who questions Trinity's "recruitment" of athletes to be racist. In my opinion that says a lot about his character. My comment was directed at that and had nothing to do with your comment. So I'm not sure why you quoted me.
If you are saying boosters, representatives from Catholic schools, whatever you want to call them, never approach a kid who is an athlete, about coming to said Catholic school, then I know you are wrong because I have personal knowledge of it. I don't think anyone has said they offer scholarships, but maybe I'm wrong.
Not that simple. As per your statement, it takes deceit to make it work in many cases. In my work as a school admin, I encountered issues in which the khsaa would not recognize such a transfer from one public school to another. In deed, it is curious how so many exchange students can come here and immediately play soccer.
Again, the solution is SIMPLE. Private schools can have their own class and their own championship. Call it the KHSAA Private School championship. Why would that be a problem?
You quoted me that’s why I responded.He basically accused anyone who questions Trinity's "recruitment" of athletes to be racist. In my opinion that says a lot about his character. My comment was directed at that and had nothing to do with your comment. So I'm not sure why you quoted me.
If you are saying boosters, representatives from Catholic schools, whatever you want to call them, never approach a kid who is an athlete, about coming to said Catholic school, then I know you are wrong because I have personal knowledge of it. I don't think anyone has said they offer scholarships, but maybe I'm wrong.
He basically accused anyone who questions Trinity's "recruitment" of athletes to be racist. In my opinion that says a lot about his character. My comment was directed at that and had nothing to do with your comment. So I'm not sure why you quoted me.
If you are saying boosters, representatives from Catholic schools, whatever you want to call them, never approach a kid who is an athlete, about coming to said Catholic school, then I know you are wrong because I have personal knowledge of it. I don't think anyone has said they offer scholarships, but maybe I'm wrong.
I didn't mean to quote you. Not sure how that happened, but I now understand why you responded to my comments. Sorry about the confusion.You quoted me that’s why I responded.
That’s not what I am saying at all. Trinity and St X actively seek kids. The misconception is how they get enrolled and how they pay for their school.