I wanted to find out how the games went and see nothing but a pissing contest with private and public schools.
HS State Finals
- Thread starter Roe07
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You said Trinity uses the Catholic Foundation and clearly went on to trash it by saying you'd love to see how many Catholics vs non Catholics or grad school attenders got money...Those waskally catholics all in a conspiracy.... when in fact it is all grade schoolers.
If you are trying to make a main point it is best to not undercut your own point by factual errors that are easy to disprove with something as simple as google. I know you think you mean well by defending the public schools against mean ole Trinity. Truth is, if you love football and want the state to be recognized as a good football state, then Trinity should be applauded for what it is doing. Trinity takes football very seriously and devotes a lot of time and effort into making it the best. They could lose to Male....and frankly Male recruits as much as anyone....but it should be applauded for taking the sport seriously too. I say that because there are a lot of Public Schools like Eastern who are horrible and for no good reason other than their admin does not care about athletics. It shows on the field.
I will agree with you that you can't always believe what parents tell you about their kids. In my case, I'm not getting it second hand or third hand. I will leave you with a thought as well. We are all fans of the schools we attended and like to think they do no wrong. Don't let yourself fall into the trap of thinking your school plays completely within the rules and other schools are the bad guys. Lots of schools cheat. I don't think it's all that uncommon in metropolitan areas.
I would agree with you, he was just an all around good guy. In his day he was a large lad himself, hence the nickname Teenie.
You'll have to show me where I have defended public schools against Trinity. In fact if you can read, you would have noticed that I have regularly said both public and private schools cheat and it should all be cleaned up. I only used Trinity as an example and specifically said in that post that I wasn't singling them out. You're just over sensitive because you are an alumni of that school.
My main point had little to do with the Catholic Foundation or Trinity. My main point is that I have first hand knowledge of schools approaching kids who have not expressed interest in that school to come and play sports for that school. It is recruiting and it is illegal. Whether the Catholic Foundation provided any financial assistance when the school was Catholic is beside the point. I do know that some received financial assistance from some source. I assumed it was the Catholic Foundation, in the case of Catholic schools, because they advertise as the financial assistance source on television. They do not specify that they only provide assistance to elementary school kids when appearing on television. Does it really matter though what the source of the funds are?
School boards do crazy stuff. Definite game changer when he came to JC. Went from 1-9 the season before he arrived to 7-3 his first year, which has been his worst season. Has won a state wrestling championship at JC. I think he won a wrestling championship at SC too.
With the new Martin County HS opening, hopefully they get things rolling again. From what I've read, they're expecting a good BB team this season. 6'10" Trey James will be hard to handle. I go back to watching Warfield and Inez when I was at Oil Springs. Always played hard. You got a new HS, now let's hope for a new water plant.
Ok. I have to say something because some of these comments are ridiculous.
1) Catholic schools do not provide athletic scholarships. Financial aide if received is based upon parents tax return and determined by an outside 3rd party. Random identification numbers are assigned to each application upon submissions identity is not known.
2) in this alternative universe where Catholic schools hand out scholarships, why does the kyhsaa not step in? What about the IRS? These scholarships need to be reported on your tax return or it is tax fraud.
There is a public school playing this weekend where several of the players are a year older than others in their grade because they completed 5th grade at the county school and then repeated the 5th grade at the city school within the same county. Surprisingly these players are much better than their peers.
Other schools have players on their roster who do not even live in the district. Parents sign over custodianship to someone who lives in the district. Student still lives at home with parents but because paperwork has been filed with the state, no rules have technically been broken.
There is a school playing this weekend who for the 2nd year in a row has a player who moved into the district from eastern kentucky to play QB.
When semester is over will move back
Same school somehow has 6-7 d1 players on its current roster while the entire state of ky has historically produced 5-6 d1 players annually. Where did all this talent come from?
1) Catholic schools do not provide athletic scholarships. Financial aide if received is based upon parents tax return and determined by an outside 3rd party. Random identification numbers are assigned to each application upon submissions identity is not known.
2) in this alternative universe where Catholic schools hand out scholarships, why does the kyhsaa not step in? What about the IRS? These scholarships need to be reported on your tax return or it is tax fraud.
There is a public school playing this weekend where several of the players are a year older than others in their grade because they completed 5th grade at the county school and then repeated the 5th grade at the city school within the same county. Surprisingly these players are much better than their peers.
Other schools have players on their roster who do not even live in the district. Parents sign over custodianship to someone who lives in the district. Student still lives at home with parents but because paperwork has been filed with the state, no rules have technically been broken.
There is a school playing this weekend who for the 2nd year in a row has a player who moved into the district from eastern kentucky to play QB.
When semester is over will move back
Same school somehow has 6-7 d1 players on its current roster while the entire state of ky has historically produced 5-6 d1 players annually. Where did all this talent come from?
I didn't want to go there because we have a couple of folks who are taking this personally even though I haven't ever said Catholic schools cheat more than some public schools. But it seems pretty evident that not all funds come from their financial aid source. Notice at the bottom of the page DrH. Lector linked that it says
Please note, students playing KHSAA sports (archery, golf, soccer, football, cross country, swimming, wrestling, basketball, bowling, baseball, tennis, fishing and track) are eligible to participate only when the tuition is paid by an immediate family member, except for that portion provided from the school through the financial aid process.
This certainly implies that they have student athletes whose tuition is paid by other sources than family members and financial aid.
Wow. You are really having a struggle with this issue. No actually it is pretty clear. That is a rule across the board for all student athletes. It is a standard rule for everyone. If you do not pay your own tuition...(except via financial aid) you are ineligible for KHSAA sports.
Where has anyone in this thread tried to say that public schools don't also cheat? Not sure what your point is about showing questionable actions by public schools. Both public and private schools cheat. All of it needs to be cleaned up.
I hope you are accurate about your belief that student athletes at some Catholic schools aren't getting funds from other sources, but how would you know that? Quoting financial aid criteria doesn't really address that issue.
These guys are conspiracy theorists. Flat Earthers. 9-11 truthers. There are no secrets ever kept secret. You really have to live in an alternate universe to think that Trinity would not be the subject of a secret investigation by the media or some other source just hoping to bring it down. The greatest evidence that it doesnt happen is that there is no evidence at all in the public domain.
I stand corrected. I read that differently than you interpreted it. I read it to mean they cannot participate in the online tuition payment system if their tuition isn't paid by a direct family member. I think your interpretation makes more sense and is probably accurate.
I know the rule in place. It is legal for family members such as grandad to pay tuition. Common for estate tax purposes and this is okay with the KHSAA. NOT for a non family member to do so.
I can assure you ZERO Catholic schools place such an emphasis on athletics that they would risk involving themselves in some of the nonsense claimed in this thread.
For those that argue Catholic schools have an unfair advantage athletically, you could create an All State team in just about every sport of kids who left / were asked to leave a private school. In many ways. it is the public schools that have an advantage.
I have no problem with parents sending their kids to the school that best fits their needs. That said, I think there should be a 7th class for Ky Football. It should be solely for all the private schools. They can fight it out for the private school championship. Private and public schools do not play on the same level field simply because privates have no designated attendance boundaries.
The ONLY thing privates have going for them is that the school can "cull" the students, keeping only the focused, disciplined kids. If you took all the disruptive and special needs kids out of the public schools, they would easily outperform private schools. Private school supporters may disagree, but the bottom line is this: Public schools can better afford the better teachers. There are a few exceptions where a great private school teacher stays in the private school because of a calling or some other reason, but generally speaking, the better teachers are in public schools.
don't disagree at all. as i noted in my earlier posts in the thread I got a better education and had better teachers my 2 years at Eastern than I did at Trinity.
Completely not true. No dispute regarding the earning potential advantage to public schools. Most if not all of the teachers at the private schools do it because of the lack of "noise" and lack of discipline that many in the public schools face. They also do it because they want to send their own kids to that school and most teachers get free tuition. Has nothing to do with money. Everyone hastheir own reasons. Also it's not just the troubled kids who you believe if they were gone things would be equal. It also has a great deal to do with the ever changing ptograms, testing, common core that teachers get sick of having to deal with year in and year out. This is alleviated to an extent at private schools.
Private schools typically have less qualified teachers due to lower pay. They also don't go through the same testing criteria, so theory that public school curriculum is inferior to private curriculum is unfounded. The biggest advantage that public schools have is a body of students that all parents are vested in their child's education and the ability to pick and choose who enters their doors.
There are exceptions but generally speaking, public school teachers, are better. In fact, one of the best teachers I've ever known chose to leave the public school in favor of the private. It had nothing to do with her ability to deal with kids or curriculum. It was a matter of her faith. In many cases, private school teachers are not even certified teachers.
IMO, it's not an issue of cheating. It's simply a matter of FACT that private schools attract kids from a larger area than the typical attendance districts that restrict public schools. If fact, private schools have no boundaries. In theory, parents of a kid from Pikeville could choose to enroll their child at Trinity and pay the tuition themselves. Would be completely legal and within rules but gives Trinity an advantage that Pikeville or public schools do not have. If one thinks the khsaa does not get involved in kids that make questionable transfers to other public schools, I can tell you from experience that person would be wrong.
I have no problem with private schools. Just in athletics, put them in a separate class.
These people make me laugh. They literally think Trinity High School goes out and hands a kid and his family an athletic scholarship for $15,000 a year to come play football.
It’s not even worth explaining how it actually works.
If you want to play at any public school you simply move into that district or find someone to let you use their address for your mailing address and you say you live there....and then go there for FREE with a taxpayer paid scholarship. So someone in Louisville could do the same thing in reverse to Pikeville but for free. The boundary issue is just a simple hurdle that can be easily stepped over if you wish to go to any Pub school. They come from Guatemala to go to Pub for free so what is the difference when borders and boundaries are meaningless.
Not that simple. As per your statement, it takes deceit to make it work in many cases. In my work as a school admin, I encountered issues in which the khsaa would not recognize such a transfer from one public school to another. In deed, it is curious how so many exchange students can come here and immediately play soccer.
Again, the solution is SIMPLE. Private schools can have their own class and their own championship. Call it the KHSAA Private School championship. Why would that be a problem?
I don't think that Trinity would care in Football. Aside from Male occasionally it is a running-clock waste of time. Trinity has developed its own "travel" league of peers in Cinci, Indy, Nashville etc.... so it would clearly make due. Trinity has won the state in basketball only 2 times so I am not sure that if not for football dominance this would be an issue. Do you guys whine about KCD? Collegiate? or countless other private schools with open borders and who also give out tuition assistance in order to bring "diversity" to their student body but are weak on the field of athletics. X is the superior "country club" sport program and no one complains about those sports because it fits the narrative....rich kids can swim and play golf so who cares.
It all boils down...IMO....to the bigotry of looking at a "black" Trinity kid and assuming that his parents couldn't possibly pull that off or care enough about education without some white benefactor pulling the strings for him. Its really sad that a lot of people buy into that narrative.
That's a crazy argument. I've seen kids try and get eligible at a public school and it's not that simple, especially if anyone objects. First of all if you own a home it becomes much tougher. You have to list the home with a Realtor, then move into another home in the other district with utilities listed in your name. Not as easy as just give a mailing address. If you are a renter then you have to pack up and move into the other district. The only people that usually can make it work is those either willing to pack up and move or those that have enough money to continue paying their mortgage and put the house on the market while renting another place with utilities.
I know some people that have tried the two house thing and it not work because they have been caught living in the old house. It would be much easier to fill out a "financial aide" application and go free to a private school and play.
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That's the narrative you are pushing, but it's not what anyone really thinks. It's always humorous when people tell others what they are thinking without any way of actually knowing it.
Ohio has 7 classes with the top 10% of schools according to enrollment playing Division 1. This year I believe there are around 720 schools in Ohio playing football, thus there are 72 in D1. The other roughly 650 schools get split evenly between the remaining 6 divisions. I think Kentucky should do something similar but split it between 5 divisions.I think ohio has seven, with 1being the biggest, 7 the smallest.
Narrative? I can't speak for what anyone else is saying, but the idea that Trinity is handing kids scholarships for athletics before they even step on campus is crazy talk. That's not how it works, period. I've had this conversation hundreds of times with non-private school people since my time at Trinity over a decade ago. This also doesn't count the countless times this conversation is had on this site anytime Trinity or St. X is mentioned.
He basically accused anyone who questions Trinity's "recruitment" of athletes to be racist. In my opinion that says a lot about his character. My comment was directed at that and had nothing to do with your comment. So I'm not sure why you quoted me.
If you are saying boosters, representatives from Catholic schools, whatever you want to call them, never approach a kid who is an athlete, about coming to said Catholic school, then I know you are wrong because I have personal knowledge of it. I don't think anyone has said they offer scholarships, but maybe I'm wrong.
Financial Aid and Scholarship in a sense is basically all the same at that level. The financial aid is a privately set up program acting in the form of a scholarship for those that can't afford to attend. Both of them get you in the school and you don't have to pay it back. The difference between that and a college scholarship is that the college scholarship is used on top of the publicly funded financial aide.
There is a solid discrepancy between the number of private schools playing football between the states but to employ some version of the Tennessee model with a public and private division you would have to have some version of the 9 private schools currently playing 3A ball or below, with sayre making 10 in the next couple of years, playing a small private division. Probably with an east and west region.
Then have St X, Trinity, covcath, and lexcath playing the larger school division but that’s all that would be in it. Travel isn’t bad for any of those to get to each other. Some of the Tennessee private division region/district games can be up to 3 hour transportation between Nashville and Memphis or Nashville and Knoxville or Chattanooga. Publics and privates still play each other outside of playoffs.
If that happened public schools should be in 4 classes. 6 is too many with everybody involved even now.
You quoted me that’s why I responded.
That’s not what I am saying at all. Trinity and St X actively seek kids. The misconception is how they get enrolled and how they pay for their school.
I said bigoted but if the shoe fits.
Explain to me then how all of you smart guys know that the black football or basketball players on Trinity could not afford it themselves? What direct knowledge do you have of their financial situation. It is only "bigotry" that would cause someone to charge that these players are there because of receiving a scholarship of some kind. There is no other explanation. If you believe that they cannot be there without some help it speaks to your character or lack thereof. Whether you believe it or not some black folks do actually have jobs, care about academics and can pay their own tuition. Unless you have evidence to the contrary....put down the shovel.
I didn't mean to quote you. Not sure how that happened, but I now understand why you responded to my comments. Sorry about the confusion.
I think the issue is "Trinity and St. X actively seek kids". Recruiting is illegal under KHSAA rules. Going to athletes that play for, or would play for, other high schools and trying to convince them to come to Trinity or St. X is a violation of the rules. The finances involved are only additional areas of concern, depending on if they are always on the up and up.
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