Do we still care about DOMINANCE

[Jazzycat]

I think it is pretty clear that dominance is NOT the goal. It is a by product of getting players to the next level, which has been Calipari’s mantra from day one. While the system worked well with having some players not leave after the first year, the monster that has been created now forces Calipari to bring in top athletes every year because of the departures, which will continue to be an obstacle to another NC - unless an Anthony Davis clone comes along. It is what it is.

 

[RunninRichie]

I think it is pretty clear that dominance is NOT the goal. It is a by product of getting players to the next level, which has been Calipari’s mantra from day one. While the system worked well with having some players not leave after the first year, the monster that has been created now forces Calipari to bring in top athletes every year because of the departures, which will continue to be an obstacle to another NC - unless an Anthony Davis clone comes along. It is what it is.

Yeah if you want change you get called a crybaby and told to sit down. Nobody can really discuss things. it is what it is.

 

[EliteBlue]

On the flipside of that, dating back to the end of Rupp, we hit lulls at some point in every decade with the exception of the 90s.

Zero FF from 66-75. Win 76, 78 title
One FF, two E8s in the 80s despite some gaudy regular season records.
The only truly down year of the 90s was 1990. Pitino got a title, ff, runner up and 2 elite 8s. Tubby won a title and 1999 wasn’t bad.
Nothing in the 2000s despite some gaudy regular season records from 2003-05.
2010s: 1 title, 1 runner-up, 2 FFs in first five years with a drop off in the back half with a few solid regular season records.

We are consistently good, but never consistently dominant in terms of postseason success with the exception of 1948-51, 1993-98, 2010-2015.

To answer your question, sure I’d love to dominate. But I also understand not every UK team will be the 96 Cats. No school or coach will dominate like that for years at a time.

I’m not saying Cal is infallible. I don’t like being 1-2. I also am not ready to change coaches.

Preface by saying I do not support firing Cal right now. But he needs another FF at minimum in the next 3 years or he should retire and spend time with his family or other endeavors. Or take that NBA job since it takes the year long recruiting hustle and dealing with 18 year olds and families and reteaching, because he is starting to come off as complacent and short with the fanbase. That can fly if the results are there but we don't do decade long FF droughts regardless of who is coach.


Now to your post:

The timelines you provided of the "lulls" align with when we made a coaching change. There is a reason 10 years has been the normal coaching stint here minus Rupp.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

Laughable take.

Beard would crawl across broken glass on 200 degree Texas asphalt to get to Lexington.

That said, I prefer Cal at this time.

You're laughable. No way Beard is leaving Lubbock. Tell me, how many people do you know that are personal friend's of Beard? I'll hang up and listen. You absolutely could not be more wrong.

 

[chroix]

Just make a statement if it’s what you believe. Posting a question and then attacking anyone that doesn’t agree with the obvious outcome of your premise is passive aggressive af. Dipping your toe in and seeing if you’ve got agreement before you come out with what you really mean is weak sauce. State your damned case and argue it.

 

[kybassfan]

Bass I have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about. You're blaming the virus on Cal's shortcomings?

This isn't the economy.

In my view, supporting this product by Calipari IS quitting. Just listen to some of these types. They throw in the towel and think Cal is the only person who can win here, they sell the program short, and they go blind to Cal changing everything for the worst because it's the best we can do.

That's a quitter. That's a losers mentality.

No, those are facts. Fact: There is a virus. Fact: It eliminated the exhibition schedule. Fact: We’re a young team. Fact: we needed that experience.

I understand your urgent need to ignore and spin reality to meet the sick twisted rationalization you are using to bait fans. You are the one quitting morggie boy. And you are ignoring the facts to do it.

 

[kybassfan]

Did Kansas and Richmond play a hella tough exhibition schedule?

And before you say "we're young". You know we're only young by choice, so it's no excuse.

Take a look at my signature for verification.

Fact: We are young. Whether by choice or not. We are young. The conditions did not help a young team. This is the state of college basketball. This is our coach. Bleating and wailing by spineless trolls and fair weather fans can’t change facts.

You clearly can’t help this program. You quit on them. Go sit down and cry in your beer. The rest of us have a basketball team to support.

 

[gojvc]

People have to remember one of the most important things when evaluating coaches for an opening and your current one. What is the trajectory of the coach and the program?

That is an excellent point and really the whole issue when evaluating coaches. It’s not a referendum on the past, it’s a judgment about the future. For example, Louisville didn’t run off Denny Crum because of the 2 championships he won in the past. They ran him off because they knew there was never going to be a third.

 

[armchairpg]

Most on here seem to only count titles. Finals fours are meaningless to them. The 38-1 season was a bust because we didn’t win it all and cal is a bum because he only won one.

To me that is a recipe for unhappiness. I just want us to win the sec most of the time, stay ahead of our rivals in the head to heads, and be a threat to win it pretty much every year barring injury or something. The hard part for me is that I like to watch Uk play well, win or lose. Even had we won the other night it was a terrible example of basketball by both sides. I know the guys are young and have not played together but how hard is it to install a pick and roll and pick and pop or a some kind of offense?

 

[Counsins Willie at Knight]

I’d say any coach looks at UK and say, how the hell can Cal not win with all that talent. I bet I can win with it. They do t even consider your excuse. They just want the chance to coach UK.

Ok let’s agree that they could get better results with the players Cal gets. But that’s just it. The players CAL gets. You can’t automatically assume that they’re going to be bringing in the same level of talent.

 

[gojvc]

Ok let’s agree that they could get better results with the players Cal gets. But that’s just it. The players CAL gets. You can’t automatically assume that they’re going to be bringing in the same level of talent.

But some “less talented” juniors and seniors might actually be better.

 

[KyFaninNC]

Ok let’s agree that they could get better results with the players Cal gets. But that’s just it. The players CAL gets. You can’t automatically assume that they’re going to be bringing in the same level of talent.

True, and I doubt they would, simply because the new coach would be interested in building a team and trying to win Nattys, not feed the NBA. We would have 2-3 down years maybe, but worth it.

 

[catben]

I think it is pretty clear that dominance is NOT the goal. It is a by product of getting players to the next level, which has been Calipari’s mantra from day one. While the system worked well with having some players not leave after the first year, the monster that has been created now forces Calipari to bring in top athletes every year because of the departures, which will continue to be an obstacle to another NC - unless an Anthony Davis clone comes along. It is what it is.

All of Cal's dominant UK teams(2012,2015) have had 2nd year and even 3rd/4th year players that had significant roles. Why doesn't he treat the players that he recruits that he KNOWS aren't going pro after their 1st season a WHOLE LOT better??!!!!

He has to know that keeping role players will help him as well as the team and program overall!! Yet he treats some players like they have to PROVE their worth or they have an extremely short leash, resulting in most of them transferring.

It is keeping us from having that "DOMINANCE" we all want!!

 

[jrpross]

1. The final four and elite 8, coupled with the rest, makes it better. period.

2. He's at TEXAS TECH. It's not hard to figure out why it's better. He went further and did it with less resources and at a doormat.

Goodness, you have to take into account he built that program to that point. And his system is better, and designed to be a better fit when the OAD is gone.

But regardless, Beard has been more impressive in that span than Cal when all things are considered. Let's not talk about a missed tournament in Lubbock please. Cal took Kentucky to the NIT.

If he’d won a championship, I’d agree with you, but getting to a final four instead of an elite eight, but winning 20 fewer games overall does not make him “better. Period”

I get that Texas Tech is not Kentucky but if you didn’t know which school was which and someone showed you the last four years for each school, you’d REALLY take the one where they won 18 games in 2 of the years because they made a final fouronce instead of an elite 8?

Don’t get me wrong, I think Beard is a great coach and if I had to replace Cal right now, he’d be on my shortlist. But you’re reaching with you’re argument that he’s been more impressive and that it’s not even close.

 

[Fitch44]

I think Cal isn't that successful anymore in the tournament. I think our records, head to heads, SEC history, all extremely important and part of what makes UK, UK.

Some of you are in a dream world, and will eventually wake up to see UK mirroring Indiana, and you'll never realize you were part of the problem.

Cal should not be allowed to cancel our home and homes, dismantle the traditions, and tell me to like it because he might get to an elite 8. That's absurd.

If you aren't paying attention, apathy its setting in. Cal is totally a large part of that problem.

Kentucky is trending down, and it's sad to see our fans allow John Calipari's used salesman routine butcher this program.

He will eventually leave, and when he does there will be no roster, and a wake of negatives. Everywhere he's been, he left hated. It will not be different here.

You'll see.

No it's not at all intended to start fights. I think Cal is becoming bad for UK. I think he is hurting the program by relentlessly force feeding the OAD, turnover, bad coaching, destroyed good home and homes, destroyed traditional rivalries, and more. I could keep going.

I'm a UK fan first.

I was on the Cal train for 11 years.

The thread was intended to see if UK fans still valued all of our accomplishments, and wanted to continue to pursue our level of status, or are we just content with losing all year and getting ready for a probable loss in March because "that's what matters". Cal did that too.,

I'm a bit surprised by you Bass. You've been a fan a long time. Can't believe you're okay with the direction of this program.

losing all year??
yes there have been some losses in Nov/Dec that are really frustrating but it is part of having young teams. And any rationale fan would agree that things have not been as good since 2016.
And it really comes down to 3 games for me in that time period.
Loss to K-State in sweet 16.
Loss to UNCheats in elite 8
Loss to auburn in Elite 8.
2 of those turn to wins and we have two more final fours and possibly one more ship.

but we also have to look at the amount of cheating that has been going on and why cal missed on so many top 15 guys in that time period.
He has had to go to second and third options in recruiting and that has an impact.

with all that said this is still one of the best times to be a uk fan.
my dad passed away last year and he would proudly tell anyone he has been a fan for over 70 years.
He was very old school, so I was shocked when he actually started following these guys in the nba. He would tell me how much he liked following Bledsoe and Miller and how they were doing.
He would also talk about how cool it was these guys got to teach their dreams and make money that changed their families lives for generations.

I know there are uk fans that don’t really care what these guys do after they leave but I’m not one of them.
Cal can still be excited about draft night and still want to win a title way more than any of us fans,
He knows that is the ultimate goal when being the head coach at UK.
But times are different now. Yea some schools keep late first rounders and second rounders for another year, but not a lot. Most schools are dealing with this and it’s just the way it is.
It is part of the entire package of having cal as the coach. He has finished 1 or 2 in recruiting every year. The talent of each class varies but the man works harder than any coach in that area.
And he goes against cheaters every year too.

now I will agree he isn’t the best X and O Coach, or at making adjustments, butI would still take coach cal over any Coach out there.

and since you are looking at specific time periods let’s do look at the almighty king dingaling Shiteshefski since 2016.

allen
Tatum
Jackson
Giles
Bolden
Kennard
Carter
Bagley
Duval
Trent jr
Zion
Jefferson
Reddish
Buttlick barrett

care to tell me how many final fours that loaded talent got Shiteshefski over a 3 year period????

 

[Diggers_Matching_Highlighter]

You're laughable. No way Beard is leaving Lubbock. Tell me, how many people do you know that are personal friend's of Beard? I'll hang up and listen. You absolutely could not be more wrong.

If he stays in Lubbuck for half the salary, a fraction of the resources, and even less exposure...he needs new friends.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

If he stays in Lubbuck for half the salary, a fraction of the resources, and even less exposure...he needs new friends.

Lubbock is definitely in the middle of no where but a very low cost of living and his family ties are very strong. That, plus the big money oil men are really supplementing his salary. I like Beard but Kentucky is a totally different atmosphere. He's not a great recruiter but gets a lot out of transfers and JUCO players. At Kentucky he'll be expected to duplicate success Cal has had with recruits. I don't know who would/should replace Cal but I just don't think Beard leaves there. I doubt if he ever ends up at Kansas either.

 

[Bluesnky]

Actually, if you go decade to decade, Kentucky has the best record of sustained success as any program in history.

That's total domination relatively speaking.

No kidding. But I assumed what you meant by dominance was producing a dominant basketball team season to season. There is no shortage of Kentucky teams that have failed to dominate over multiple consecutive seasons. Having said that it always makes us pretty freaking aggravated as we are right now and sometimes it does lead to a coaching change.

 

[willievic]

Fact: We are young. Whether by choice or not. We are young. The conditions did not help a young team. This is the state of college basketball. This is our coach. Bleating and wailing by spineless trolls and fair weather fans can’t change facts.

You clearly can’t help this program. You quit on them. Go sit down and cry in your beer. The rest of us have a basketball team to support.

I guess I don't understand your post. Whose fault is it that were young, not the fans. Because someone doesn't back Cal, and kiss his butt, doesn't mean we quit on UK. That is completely different, and have you ever thought that maybe we don't like the trend were seeing. If you like what your seeing since 2016, and so far this year, then I guess you don't understand. Cal said it's not about WINS or Losses or National Championships. Well, what the Hell is it about then. For what were paying Cal, we can get a lot of coaches to lose. I think most of us who are UK FANS, think it's about WINS and NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. That's why we keep score. All prior coaches at UK felt it was important to WIN. In the past if you didn't win, adios. That is a Kentuckian way.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[kybassfan]

I guess I don't understand your post. Whose fault is it that were young, not the fans. Because someone doesn't back Cal, and kiss his butt, doesn't mean we quit on UK. That is completely different, and have you ever thought that maybe we don't like the trend were seeing. If you like what your seeing since 2016, and so far this year, then I guess you don't understand. Cal said it's not about WINS or Losses or National Championships. Well, what the Hell is it about then. For what were paying Cal, we can get a lot of coaches to lose. I think most of us who are UK FANS, think it's about WINS and NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. That's why we keep score. All prior coaches at UK felt it was important to WIN. In the past if you didn't win, adios. That is a Kentuckian way.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

Funny how when people frantically rationalize, they take facts which are completely contrary to their position and offer them as proof. We are young. Period. Why we are young is well known. Its not going to change. We are young and well down the learning curve. End of story.

Regarding the rest of your post, I'm sorry you can't understand coach speak. If you think Calipari isn't concerned with winning or national championships, you are delusional. However, he is not weak minded like some fans that dissolve into pity and rage. The program concerns itself with improving the next time out. That's athletics. Anyone that can't see that is really weak in their ability to cope.

 

[BBUK]

Bass I have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about. You're blaming the virus on Cal's shortcomings?

This isn't the economy.

In my view, supporting this product by Calipari IS quitting. Just listen to some of these types. They throw in the towel and think Cal is the only person who can win here, they sell the program short, and they go blind to Cal changing everything for the worst because it's the best we can do.

That's a quitter. That's a losers mentality.

Italian Privilege

 

[jameslee32]

My God, how many more rhetorical questions???

 

[MegaBlue05]

But those stats are the best. No one has sustained and won at that level. I see people say what you're saying a lot, but it simply doesn't make sense. From start to finish, those numbers are the best RELATIVE to everyone else. It doesn't matter that it seems like minor Pickens to you or someone personally. Relative to everyone else is the only thing that matters. No one has been better.

We have been the most consistent program decade to decade.

Cal is underachieving right now.

But he’s really not. You can make that argument if Cal/new coach doesn’t win a title by 2026. We average one championship every 14 years. Cal has won 80.7 percent of his games at Kentucky. Our average winning percentage historically is 76.3. If you cherry pick the last 5 years like LOD 2.0 loves to do, he’s won 77.4 percent of his games.

Historical data does not agree with your emotional response.

 

[morgousky]

But he’s really not. You can make that argument if Cal/new coach doesn’t win a title by 2026. We average one championship every 14 years. Cal has won 80.7 percent of his games at Kentucky. Our average winning percentage historically is 76.3. If you cherry pick the last 5 years like LOD 2.0 loves to do, he’s won 77.4 percent of his games.

Historical data does not agree with your emotional response.

But see I'd say your response is emotional, because you're trying to twist our standing to fit Cal's underachieving.

Kentucky, from start to finish, decade to decade, is THE MOST successful program. That means we have sustained success better than anyone. You can look decade to decade and see our standing in each of them to know it.

Cal has been underachieving over the last 5. When you add his previous 5 he's good. The issue is, he's trending down.

 

[CatsIndy2010]

UK and UCLA both are like monopolistic basketball companies.....it should not be about dominance but sharing the action amongst many teams....i guess im not die hard fan, oh well.

 

[Bluesnky]

But see I'd say your response is emotional, because you're trying to twist our standing to fit Cal's underachieving.

Kentucky, from start to finish, decade to decade, is THE MOST successful program. That means we have sustained success better than anyone. You can look decade to decade and see our standing in each of them to know it.

Cal has been underachieving over the last 5. When you add his previous 5 he's good. The issue is, he's trending down.

In truth the last four years have been a lot like the less than dominant years in 2011 and 2014. The difference is they won the one possession games those years to get to the final four. Cal gets a ton of mileage out of those two years. Had they come up one shot short, the perception of Cal would be a lot different. Of course, if the recent teams had been one shot better, the perception would be much improved.

 

[BBUK]

But see I'd say your response is emotional, because you're trying to twist our standing to fit Cal's underachieving.

Kentucky, from start to finish, decade to decade, is THE MOST successful program. That means we have sustained success better than anyone. You can look decade to decade and see our standing in each of them to know it.

Cal has been underachieving over the last 5. When you add his previous 5 he's good. The issue is, he's trending down.

alm

 

[willievic]

Funny how when people frantically rationalize, they take facts which are completely contrary to their position and offer them as proof. We are young. Period. Why we are young is well known. Its not going to change. We are young and well down the learning curve. End of story.

Regarding the rest of your post, I'm sorry you can't understand coach speak. If you think Calipari isn't concerned with winning or national championships, you are delusional. However, he is not weak minded like some fans that dissolve into pity and rage. The program concerns itself with improving the next time out. That's athletics. Anyone that can't see that is really weak in their ability to cope.

Thanks for your comments. They seem really self-centered, so I'm sure you know everything, so there is no reason for any of us to discuss basketball with you

Funny how when people frantically rationalize, they take facts which are completely contrary to their position and offer them as proof. We are young. Period. Why we are young is well known. Its not going to change. We are young and well down the learning curve. End of story.

Regarding the rest of your post, I'm sorry you can't understand coach speak. If you think Calipari isn't concerned with winning or national championships, you are delusional. However, he is not weak minded like some fans that dissolve into pity and rage. The program concerns itself with improving the next time out. That's athletics. Anyone that can't see that is really weak in their ability to cope.

It appears that you KNOW everything there is to know about basketball, recruiting and Coach Cal. I believe they call that a "Know it All." If you think he is interested in winning, then take the time to read his book, "It's All About The Players." If he is concerned about winning National Championships, as you seem to insult everyone about it, then he is not doing a very good job with the Number 1 recruits every year. Maybe he should change his philosophy. I believe in the saying, "If you always do what you've always done, Then you always get, what you've always had." Anyway, there is no need to discuss Cal and basketball with you. You already know everything, so we would just be wasting our time, and we're probably to weak in our ability to cope with you.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

 

[kybassfan]

Thanks for your comments. They seem really self-centered, so I'm sure you know everything, so there is no reason for any of us to discuss basketball with you


It appears that you KNOW everything there is to know about basketball, recruiting and Coach Cal. I believe they call that a "Know it All." If you think he is interested in winning, then take the time to read his book, "It's All About The Players." If he is concerned about winning National Championships, as you seem to insult everyone about it, then he is not doing a very good job with the Number 1 recruits every year. Maybe he should change his philosophy. I believe in the saying, "If you always do what you've always done, Then you always get, what you've always had." Anyway, there is no need to discuss Cal and basketball with you. You already know everything, so we would just be wasting our time, and we're probably to weak in our ability to cope with you.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

Read that book. Thought he made a good pitch to parents of high profile players. You didn’t think he was talking to you did you? Oops. Coach speak for recruiting. Also, successful people have more than one top priority, or didn’t you get that from the intro to business management school?

Platitudes such as the one you quoted are pretty useless at the level our basketball team has to play in. He is actually doing amazingly well. That you see as high level recruits he sees as raw unrefined kids with potential. That is Kentucky in this age. You cry for Calipari to change. I’d suggest the change is needed from those that can only see one way. You want four year players? Go cheer for a school that recruits players with no options.

 

[Will Bithers]

No, if UK sends Cal packing for a Chris Beard type, they no longer care about being dominant. He has a subpar record and no major achievements other than being a runner-up once. In 5 seasons at TT, he has had 1 good season, and even it included 6 losses. His head to head record with Kansas is worse than Cal’s. He barely has a .500 record in Big12 conference play and hasn’t won the league outright or a conference championship tournament anywhere he has been so far. His 4 full seasons at TT are 18-14; 27-10; 31-7; 18-13. So far, this year, they are 2 -1 with a loss to Houston. Beards combined record at TT is 96 - 45, and his conference record is 40 - 32.

If this is the best we can do then UK has really fallen from grace over the decades. Frankly it’s embarrassing some of our fanbase has accepted the conclusion this guy is even worthy of an interview. Some of you inbred morons needs to pull your heads out of your asses and realize you’re being trolled by the OP and others into demanding changes be made that will damage the program for decades to come. Beard is nothing more than Billy G 2.0.

You currently have a hall of fame coach. 3x naismith coach of the year winner, AP coach of the year winner, 4x Sec coach of the year winner, including just last season. He has 6 final 4's (4 at UK), 6 SEC tournament championships, 6 SEC regular season championships (as recently as just last year.) He has helped improve the conference for years to come. UK is among the NCAA tournament favorite almost yearly. We recruit the best teams annually. We are represented at all levels. We rarely ever end up with a bad representative of our program and have had no serious issues during his tenure. Would I like to win it all every season? Sure! But that isn't realistic, nor is even a final four every year. However, we have it better and more consistent than any other program. Don't ruin it by being an ungrateful fanbase with unrealistic expectations. I'm middle aged and UK has never had it as well in my lifetime. Not even during the Pitino years. UK will likely never see this level of success again in my lifetime after Cal is gone. Please don't ruin it! We should still be beyond grateful Cal took the job in 2009. Trust me, coaches weren't just lining up for the job then or in 2007. Honestly, they weren't really in 97 or after Sutton either. Why do you think we ended up with Smith and Billy G? Be grateful for what you have and enjoy it as long as possible. When it's gone, there are no guarantees you'll get it back!

 

[ManitouDan]

Hey Bill , how long does Cals crazy success the first 5 years buy him ? Forever ? Is there any amount of downward trending that wont get you to actually pull your head from Cals ass and accept whats currently going on ? OP isnt trolling , he's been making similar posts for months and months . Most of the state agrees the offense is broken and wont get us a FF or a Championship without a few top 5-10 talent guys. Cal isnt getting them anymore. This model of losing to mid majors as a acceptable situation and praying we come thru in March isnt working. I'm ok with Cal staying if he addresses the offense. Its that simple. I could hope for out of bounds plays or using a zone when necessary but with us being young and the virus I assume me and the entire fan base are just too demanding . Maybe its the inbreeding as you suggest.

 

[Dncmaxwell]

Just a question not intended to start fights. We used to pride ourselves on every game. We pumped our head to head records, we abused the SEC and loved it, we enjoyed other things besides a probable loss in March. We loved the players, the tradition, the way we were feared, the way we dominated.

Cal - in my opinion - has done a fantastic Job of convincing a large minority of fans to simply not care about any of that. Does anyone remember what our head to head was against Kansas before Cal got here? Would anyone be cool with Tennessee beating us 15 out of the next 20? I'm simply asking, as long as we have " a shot" in March (whatever that means), are we good with losing all of those great categories on the list, and throwing away our past dominance?

Do you care about UK being number 1, or does that not really matter anymore? Honest question for some, are we good losing as long as there's always a perceived "shot" in March?


Where is everyone on this vital issue which will be the essence of the program moving forward over the next 25 years.

No, I get it.

I guess I’d answer by saying what the priorities are for me.

1) Having a shot in March (a real shot, not a long shot)
2) having players that I am invested in (Jamal Mashburn was here THREE YEARS). Imagine if Davis or even PJ did that,,,,,,,
3) Being ranked #1. Least priority because 8 don’t really respect the ratings that much. They just don’t. There are too many of them, and people do goofy things to try to get attention and clicks. Then there’s the whole ”you stay #1 until you lose, even if another team gets better wins. It’s just opinions, and I value mine and yours more than theirs.

But it doesnt feel they way it used to. Sometimes it’s embarrassing the level you see in a Kentucky uniform.(first 5 of the Kansas game were worse than Y ball on both sides) .

That said I love UK. I’ll watch. Every game.

Go Big Blue

 

[Will Bithers]

Hey Bill , how long does Cals crazy success the first 5 years buy him ? Forever ? Is there any amount of downward trending that wont get you to actually pull your head from Cals ass and accept whats currently going on ? OP isnt trolling , he's been making similar posts for months and months . Most of the state agrees the offense is broken and wont get us a FF or a Championship without a few top 5-10 talent guys. Cal isnt getting them anymore. This model of losing to mid majors as a acceptable situation and praying we come thru in March isnt working. I'm ok with Cal staying if he addresses the offense. Its that simple. I could hope for out of bounds plays or using a zone when necessary but with us being young and the virus I assume me and the entire fan base are just too demanding . Maybe its the inbreeding as you suggest.

Lol, downward trend? We have been to the E8 2 times in the last 5 years. We have a sw16, round of 32 and a cancelled tournament during that span, which we very likely make at least the E8 again if it was played. We also made the tournament all 5 years unlike the first 5. We have won the SEC tournament 3 of those 5. We won the sec regular season 3 out of those 5. Cal was also SEC coach of the year just last season.

The offense has played 3 games, with all new players. It's not so much broken as not even built yet. Give it time. We go through this yearly. Our offense just competed with the #7 team in the country until the buzzer. It led by double digits much of the game. Give it some time gel. Also, Boston and Clarke are easily top 10 talents. As is Jackson if we are being honest. Name freshman 10 better than them!

Lol, we lost to Richmond who is a ranked team. Hell, the best team in the country currently is a mid major. Get out of here with that ignorant logic!

I would say it's partially the inbreeding. Then just plain ignorance and entitlement.


And yes, you and the rest of the board are being trolled by the OP.

 

[ManitouDan]

Lol, downward trend? We have been to the E8 2 times in the last 5 years. We have a sw16, round of 32 and a cancelled tournament during that span, which we very likely make at least the E8 again if it was played. We also made the tournament all 5 years unlike the first 5. We have won the SEC tournament 3 of those 5. We won the sec regular season 3 out of those 5. Cal was also SEC coach of the year just last season.

The offense has played 3 games, with all new players. It's not so much broken as not even built yet. Give it time. We go through this yearly. Our offense just competed with the #7 team in the country until the buzzer. It led by double digits much of the game. Give it some time gel. Also, Boston and Clarke are easily top 10 talents. As is Jackson if we are being honest. Name freshman 10 better than them!

Lol, we lost to Richmond who is a ranked team. Hell, the best team in the country currently is a mid major. Get out of here with that ignorant logic!

I would say it's partially the inbreeding. Then just plain ignorance and entitlement.


And yes, you and the rest of the board are being trolled by the OP.

And I can quote the record versus ranked teams the past 5 years , the comparison to Tubby's last 5 years etc etc . Glass 1/2 full or empty ? I guess its fair to say some people see it one way , some the other . My belief is Cal is slipping , and his ego and age isnt going to allow change. will will get better ? Of course . Thats obvious , but if we are being honest , we suck right now . We didnt just drop a close to Richmond , they punked us . We dropped a close one to Kansas but would anyone say that was a well played game ? Or this a good Kansas team by recent Kansas standards ? If we are going to accept the growing pains then we cant just settle for " look how far this team came since losing to Eville or Richmond " We are the greatest tradition in all of college ball because we expect the best. We are the winningest team in all of college ball, that matters to me. NO I dont expect a FF every year , but we cant keep losing to lesser teams with all the chips pushed in . You cant lose to a crappy KSU team and an injured Auburn team because you cant the shots you desire out of offense . Does Sabin change and adapt ? Yes but it isnt common for old coaches to be able to adapt to new rules and circumstances , thats what sets him apart. I want Cal to continue to be like that .. but he shows zero urge to do so. I wont insult you . I wont insult those that disagree ( with a rare few exceptions) , time will tell who is correct.


PS Richmond wasnt ranked when they drilled us , I guess we were a stepping stone.
And Gonzaga cant be considered mid major anymore IMO.

 

[Will Bithers]

And I can quote the record versus ranked teams the past 5 years , the comparison to Tubby's last 5 years etc etc . Glass 1/2 full or empty ? I guess its fair to say some people see it one way , some the other . My belief is Cal is slipping , and his ego and age isnt going to allow change. will will get better ? Of course . Thats obvious , but if we are being honest , we suck right now . We didnt just drop a close to Richmond , they punked us . We dropped a close one to Kansas but would anyone say that was a well played game ? Or this a good Kansas team by recent Kansas standards ? If we are going to accept the growing pains then we cant just settle for " look how far this team came since losing to Eville or Richmond " We are the greatest tradition in all of college ball because we expect the best. We are the winningest team in all of college ball, that matters to me. NO I dont expect a FF every year , but we cant keep losing to lesser teams with all the chips pushed in . You cant lose to a crappy KSU team and an injured Auburn team because you cant the shots you desire out of offense . Does Sabin change and adapt ? Yes but it isnt common for old coaches to be able to adapt to new rules and circumstances , thats what sets him apart. I want Cal to continue to be like that .. but he shows zero urge to do so. I wont insult you . I wont insult those that disagree ( with a rare few exceptions) , time will tell who is correct.


PS Richmond wasnt ranked when they drilled us , I guess we were a stepping stone.
And Gonzaga cant be considered mid major anymore IMO.

Lol, so go ahead and break them down for us. I can then break down all the ones we have won. You do realize when you compete against other good teams you are going to lose some of the time. It's happened under every coach we have had.

You are free to believe that. You just don't have much evidence to back it up.

This is a pretty good Kansas team. They seem more cohesive than years past. They have good guards and play makers and a damn good defender in Garrett. Only a fool would think they aren't good. Every year under call with the exception of 3 have had 2 or more early season losses. 2 seems to be the avg. Hell, the 13-14 team lost 3 and still went to the championship. Keep your panties out of a knot. It's still early.

We lost to KSU because we weren't a better team. We played almost all season with no Vanderbilt. Washington had a broken finger and missed every free throw. It is what it is. We had already beaten a good AU team twice. Beating any team a 3rd time is hard. That was still a damn good team and far from a regression in Cals ability.

Richmond was just outside the top 25 in a preseadon ranking and became ranked immediatly after. We can split hairs, but they are a pretty good team regardless.

Gonzaga plays in a mid major conference. They are thus a mid major. Claiming otherwise to fit a narrative is just that. They also dissapoint their seeding and expectations yearly, yet for some reason people act like they are something and we should hire Few. They have 1 final four!

 

[Mike-D]

I cannot believe Kentucky has lost 4 of 5 to Kansas. That's the worst of any coach in history, the only other as bad against Kansas was Tubby and he ran out of town on his 3rd straight.

Dominance Celticat, Dominance. We aren't dominant.

"But wait!!! We're young and ultra talented! Brand new team! We might get it together by March."

"Some you entitled fans expect to win a championship every year. Newsflash: we only have 8 in our storied history!"

These are the typical moronic apologists. We are on a decline of the Cal era, and he hasn't done a damn thing to fix it. He's no better than Tubby Smith at the end of his tenure right now. His offense is still stuck in the 90's. This team is gonna average maybe 72 ppg this year. Watch the movie Groundhog day. We are watching the same shit every year now.

 

[MegaBlue05]

But see I'd say your response is emotional, because you're trying to twist our standing to fit Cal's underachieving.

Kentucky, from start to finish, decade to decade, is THE MOST successful program. That means we have sustained success better than anyone. You can look decade to decade and see our standing in each of them to know it.

Cal has been underachieving over the last 5. When you add his previous 5 he's good. The issue is, he's trending down.

I agree on one thing. He is trending down. Slightly. But the down trend is still ahead of our historical average. The data doesn’t lie.

But have it your way. Fire Cal. Hire Chris Beard. I’m sure he’ll win every game by 50 and we’ll be in the final four every year and the fanbase will finally quit bitching because our dominant basketball program will increase everyone’s sense of self worth.

 

[morgousky]

I agree on one thing. He is trending down. Slightly. But the down trend is still ahead of our historical average. The data doesn’t lie.

But have it your way. Fire Cal. Hire Chris Beard. I’m sure he’ll win every game by 50 and we’ll be in the final four every year and the fanbase will finally quit bitching because our dominant basketball program will increase everyone’s sense of self worth.

Don't really understand the last part. But oooookay then.

 

[morgousky]

Lol, so go ahead and break them down for us. I can then break down all the ones we have won. You do realize when you compete against other good teams you are going to lose some of the time. It's happened under every coach we have had.

You are free to believe that. You just don't have much evidence to back it up.

This is a pretty good Kansas team. They seem more cohesive than years past. They have good guards and play makers and a damn good defender in Garrett. Only a fool would think they aren't good. Every year under call with the exception of 3 have had 2 or more early season losses. 2 seems to be the avg. Hell, the 13-14 team lost 3 and still went to the championship. Keep your panties out of a knot. It's still early.

We lost to KSU because we weren't a better team. We played almost all season with no Vanderbilt. Washington had a broken finger and missed every free throw. It is what it is. We had already beaten a good AU team twice. Beating any team a 3rd time is hard. That was still a damn good team and far from a regression in Cals ability.

Richmond was just outside the top 25 in a preseadon ranking and became ranked immediatly after. We can split hairs, but they are a pretty good team regardless.

Gonzaga plays in a mid major conference. They are thus a mid major. Claiming otherwise to fit a narrative is just that. They also dissapoint their seeding and expectations yearly, yet for some reason people act like they are something and we should hire Few. They have 1 final four!

Damn Bill, never took you for an excuse maker. Your new account is disappointing.

btw, no coach at UK has ever lost 4 of 5 to Kansas, but please continue telling everyone how losing is actually the Kentucky way, we just didn't notice.

 

[Bluesnky]

It’s more of a lower plateau than a downward trend. Every year is like 2011 or 2014 and we are just hoping for a wild tournament run. And there are none of the 2010, 2012, or 2015 dominating teams.