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Russia - Ukraine WAR Warning: Political Discussions

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I've been defining them, in this thread, I'm not going to repeat myself ad nauseum go look for yourself.
Nope. You post a totally undefined statement & expect people to believe it w/o justifying it in the present. Not our job to look them up. Up to you to be clear. Vs. "justified reasons", you could post one - as easy as "justified" - & say there are more. Also, you could link a previous post since you know what you're referring to , not us. But we're not doing your work for you. So the questions stand & w/o specific response, they're useless.
 
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I've been defining them, in this thread, I'm not going to repeat myself ad nauseum go look for yourself.
The only think specific you mentioned was NATO. Ukraine joining NATO doesn't give Russia a right to attack them. NATO has never been an aggressor, ever.

I guess you inferred they had a right to attack Ukraine because Ukraine was attacking its own people. First, why is that Russias business and second, what you're really talking about is Ukraine fighting Russian separatists. Ukraine has ever right to attack them, that is Ukrainian soil.

Got anything better than that chief?
 
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It gives context to Russia's mindset after the U.S. helped lead a coup in Ukraine. They saw the writing on the wall back then and had been preparing accordingly.
A coup? Lol, you mad a Russian puppet is no longer in power? As for their mindset, that gives them no right to attack Ukraine, none whatsoever. There are so many holes in that logic its pathetic.
 
This isn't about who has been or might in the future be bad or good. This is about a world where the sovereignty of a nation is respected and observed. If you think it's ok to invade a sovereign nation then you are wrong. If Ukraine invaded Russia they would be wrong, but they didn't. Russia invaded them. It's that simple. Don't let your right wing media logic polite this issue because they are trying to spin the idiotic things that Trumo said.
Was the sovereignty of Ukraine respected in 2014 when the US and EU helped overthrow the Ukrainian government? The US disrespects sovereign nations all the time. The world doesn’t work like that.

I’m not a right winger. I don’t watch Fox News and my views on Trump in this thread have been consistent. I’m not a fan of his at all.

I don’t have to agree or support what Russia is doing, but I do feel like I need to understand why they’re doing what they’re doing. You’re claim of it being as simple as invading a sovereign nation isn’t correct. The West has been encroaching on Russia for years now. They’ve been meddling with Ukraine trying to get Ukraine to be more aligned with the West than Russia and Russia isn’t happy about it. Think if Russia or China tried to setup a government in Canada that was more aligned with them than the US. How do you think the US would respond?

This isn’t about who is right and who is wrong. My goal has been to better understand why this has been happening. These issues are much deeper than it just being about a sovereign nation being invaded.
 
It gives context to Russia's mindset after the U.S. helped lead a coup in Ukraine. They saw the writing on the wall back then and had been preparing accordingly.

Problem with this statement is that it looks at NATO involvement in Ukraine as a single action vacuum. You're also neglecting that Russia-backed Viktor Vanukovic was also elected under shady pretexts in 2004. A recount of votes, after fraud allegations, led to appointment of westernized Yuschchenko that same year.

In 2013, the Russia-backed Yuschchenko, who then after "won" the 2010 election, announced he would suspend trade and association talks with the EU, leading to widespread protests in Ukraine. Protests soon led to the expulsion of Yuschschenko from office in 2014 in an act by Ukrainian parliament. Yes, the EU and US were in favor of that action.

Simply saying it was a US-backed coup is ignoring the various interests, particularly in Europe, and the authentic desire of much of Ukraine to not be beholden to Russia.
 
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Was the sovereignty of Ukraine respected in 2014 when the US and EU helped overthrow the Ukrainian government? The US disrespects sovereign nations all the time. The world doesn’t work like that.

I’m not a right winger. I don’t watch Fox News and my views on Trump in this thread have been consistent. I’m not a fan of his at all.

I don’t have to agree or support what Russia is doing, but I do feel like I need to understand why they’re doing what they’re doing. You’re claim of it being as simple as invading a sovereign nation isn’t correct. The West has been encroaching on Russia for years now. They’ve been meddling with Ukraine trying to get Ukraine to be more aligned with the West than Russia and Russia isn’t happy about it. Think if Russia or China tried to setup a government in Canada that was more aligned with them than the US. How do you think the US would respond?

This isn’t about who is right and who is wrong. My goal has been to better understand why this has been happening. These issues are much deeper than it just being about a sovereign nation being invaded.
The modern American has no time for researching complex topics. If it can't be expressed in meme form then they simply conform to whatever the parrots on TV tell them to believe.
 
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Think if Russia or China tried to setup a government in Canada that was more aligned with them than the US. How do you think the US would respond?

I don't know why people make this argument as a theoretical. Russia has and continues to do this in Cuba. Does this US have justification to invade?
 
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The modern American has no time for researching complex topics. If it can't be expressed in meme form then they simply conform to whatever the parrots on TV tell them to believe.
Oh please. You're not some how above people or more informed simply because they disagree with you. I know your arguments very well and I disagree.
 
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Was the sovereignty of Ukraine respected in 2014 when the US and EU helped overthrow the Ukrainian government? The US disrespects sovereign nations all the time. The world doesn’t work like that.

I’m not a right winger. I don’t watch Fox News and my views on Trump in this thread have been consistent. I’m not a fan of his at all.

I don’t have to agree or support what Russia is doing, but I do feel like I need to understand why they’re doing what they’re doing. You’re claim of it being as simple as invading a sovereign nation isn’t correct. The West has been encroaching on Russia for years now. They’ve been meddling with Ukraine trying to get Ukraine to be more aligned with the West than Russia and Russia isn’t happy about it. Think if Russia or China tried to setup a government in Canada that was more aligned with them than the US. How do you think the US would respond?

This isn’t about who is right and who is wrong. My goal has been to better understand why this has been happening. These issues are much deeper than it just being about a sovereign nation being invaded.

The US wouldn't respond by killing women and children. JB would be ashamed at you.
 
the authentic desire of much of Ukraine
There in lies another issue. The Ukraine isn't a monolithic society. It's borders were redrawn by Russia during their communist reign and non native Ukrainians were relocated there while native Ukrainians were relocated elsewhere.
 
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I don't know why people make this argument as a theoretical. Russia has and continues to do this in Cuba. Does this US have justification to invade?
And that relationship almost started a nuclear war. The US wasn’t happy about it. They didn’t just act like it was no problem. The US tried to overthrow Castro multiple times. So yes, the US did think it was justified in invading Cuba.
 
There in lies another issue. The Ukraine isn't a monolithic society. It's borders were redrawn by Russia during their communist reign and non native Ukrainians were relocated there while native Ukrainians were relocated elsewhere.
And this justifies fullscale invasion of Ukraine?
 
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And that relationship almost started a nuclear war. The US wasn’t happy about it. They didn’t just act like it was no problem. The US tried to overthrow Castro multiple times. So yes, the US did think it was justified in invading Cuba.
Yes, the US did do that. And Cuba, an ally of a nuclear super power, continues to exist just off the coast of the Florida Keys.
 
They didn’t do it intentionally. It was a mistake. A terrible one. Russia does it on Purpose. You are shameless.
I’m sorry you believe what the government does in wars is righteous. We bombed a doctors’ office that killed 42 people. Obama had a 16 year old US citizen killed in a drone strike. Trump had a US citizen killed in a drone strike.

I shouldn’t have to point that out because I’m not defending Russia killing innocent people. I’m not pro Russia. I’m very anti-war. I’m strongly against US involvement in this because I don’t want American men and women to die. I don’t want anyone to die for this. I’ve said multiple times throughout this thread that I feel terrible for what is happening to Ukrainian citizens. I don’t want people to die. My points have been about trying to understand why this happened. Not about supporting one side or the other.
 
.I don’t have to agree or support what Russia is doing, but I do feel like I need to understand why they’re doing what they’re doing. You’re claim of it being as simple as invading a sovereign nation isn’t correct. The West has been encroaching on Russia for years now.
Nope. No encroaching. Nothing has been done to Russia's territory - which is the definition of encroaching.
 
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Problem with this statement is that it looks at NATO involvement in Ukraine as a single action vacuum. You're also neglecting that Russia-backed Viktor Vanukovic was also elected under shady pretexts in 2004. A recount of votes, after fraud allegations, led to appointment of westernized Yuschchenko that same year.

In 2013, the Russia-backed Yuschchenko, who then after "won" the 2010 election, announced he would suspend trade and association talks with the EU, leading to widespread protests in Ukraine. Protests soon led to the expulsion of Yuschschenko from office in 2014 in an act by Ukrainian parliament. Yes, the EU and US were in favor of that action.

Simply saying it was a US-backed coup is ignoring the various interests, particularly in Europe, and the authentic desire of much of Ukraine to not be beholden to Russia.
Truth here. Excellent post.
 
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Nope. No encroaching. Nothing has been done to Russia's territory - which is the definition of encroaching.
Maybe encroaching was the wrong word, but Ukraine is a neighbor to Russia. Obviously they aren’t going to be too pleased with having a pro-Western government established in Ukraine by the US and EU.
 
The modern American has no time for researching complex topics. If it can't be expressed in meme form then they simply conform to whatever the parrots on TV tell them to believe.
And leftists want to do nothing but to make issues more complex than they are.
 
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I’m sorry you believe what the government does in wars is righteous. We bombed a doctors’ office that killed 42 people. Obama had a 16 year old US citizen killed in a drone strike. Trump had a US citizen killed in a drone strike.

I shouldn’t have to point that out because I’m not defending Russia killing innocent people. I’m not pro Russia. I’m very anti-war. I’m strongly against US involvement in this because I don’t want American men and women to die. I don’t want anyone to die for this. I’ve said multiple times throughout this thread that I feel terrible for what is happening to Ukrainian citizens. I don’t want people to die. My points have been about trying to understand why this happened. Not about supporting one side or the other.
Change your name. JB is a good guy and doesn’t need his name desecrated.
 
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There in lies another issue. The Ukraine isn't a monolithic society. It's borders were redrawn by Russia during their communist reign and non native Ukrainians were relocated there while native Ukrainians were relocated elsewhere.
IOW, they are multi-ethnic & accepting of all those ethnicities. You have a problem with that?
 
Maybe encroaching was the wrong word, but Ukraine is a neighbor to Russia. Obviously they aren’t going to be too pleased with having a pro-Western government established in Ukraine by the US and EU.
Why? What's that to them? Already have some in Baltic states and Poland. How has that hurt Russia?
 
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Maybe encroaching was the wrong word, but Ukraine is a neighbor to Russia. Obviously they aren’t going to be too pleased with having a pro-Western government established in Ukraine by the US and EU.
Does that justify invasion and killing citizens? I thought you didn't like war? But you seem to be justifying an offensive strike to displace a neighboring government that is not friendly. So you might not like it but you are justifying it with that?
 
Why? What's that to them? Already have some in Baltic states and Poland. How has that hurt Russia?
I don’t know if Russia feels the West is going to try to invade them or not. From what I’ve read, Russia said from the beginning they won’t tolerate NATO expansion and things like that. I know Ukraine has access to natural gas that Russia is interested in considering that’s a huge part of their economy.
 
Does that justify invasion and killing citizens? I thought you didn't like war? But you seem to be justifying an offensive strike to displace a neighboring government that is not friendly. So you might not like it but you are justifying it with that?
I’m not justifying it. I think Putin is wring for what he’s doing. My point is I’m more interested in trying to understand why this is happening. Trying to understand why it’s happening, isn’t supporting it.
 
Oh please. You're not some how above people or more informed simply because they disagree with you. I know your arguments very well and I disagree.

I don't think you do. There's no justification to Putin's actions, nor ours in precipitating this mess.

Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

There are no good guys here, only death and destruction of innocents.
 
European Intel branch is reporting that Russian's Intel branch known as the FES is drafting plans to conduct public executions once towns are seized.

No telling if that's true, but I wouldn't be surprised as that would be a tactic to get them to give up their arms.
 
Yeah, the whole free world has it all wrong. Putin amassed his forces for weeks and just failed to clearly articulate the “justified” reasons for that. Those who accuse him of war crimes just don’t understand how righteous this war is. Other than the informed few, like you, Putin is just misunderstood. Too bad he just did not have the capability to clearly communicate the horror he wanted to stop. Let’s just hope as he bombs the Holocaust memorial and seeks to unseat a Jewish president, he can get all of those evil Nazis out of Ukraine and find justice after the Ukraine, EU, NATO and US have wrongly abused his image. Fight the good fight for Putin!!!
Lol
 
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