Russia - Ukraine WAR Warning: Political Discussions

[bkingUK]

Hahah, anxiety attacks?

Tell me you're a liberal without telling me you're a liberal.

Good gravy

Glad you posted this.

If you aren’t worried about what’s going on, congratulations. You’re a hero.

But I’ll lay out why I’m concerned and do have anxiety.

As it stands, there is no out to this conflict with out escalation. Ukrainians are dug in, Russians are committed and all of the modern world has chosen a side, mostly siding with Ukraine,

But meanwhile, a nuclear power’s economy is decimated, nuclear saber rattling is intensifying and Russia has no out. It’s important to stress again that there is no out. Putin is not going to turn around. They can and will only go one direction.

And on the west side of Europe, we are seeing a ramping up of militarization and polarization. Even the Swiss have departed from neutrality. When has the national militarization of Europe ever led to a positive result?

And in Poland we have jet fighters being donated, taking off from Polish air fields, and this is being done under the mentality that it’s not NATO, therefore within bounds. But this is only inbounds to the view of the westerners. Putin has stated he will strike the airfields these planes take off from (in Poland). That’s an automatic trigger for World War via article 5 of NATO doctrine.

Meanwhile, we have Russia, who will destroy Ukraine, and will eventually wake up as a country embarrassed, poor and stuck in quagmire. I am reminded of shades of Germany at end of WW1 with the Treaty of Versailles. It was a treaty criticized by historians as a precursor to WW2 and which crippled the country from recovery. And of course Russia will still exist. There will not be a total victory. That makes it even more dangerous. They aren’t just going to go away,

And then there are the parallels with Japan, who attacked the US following economic sanctions placed on them to halt the advancements of the Japanese empire.

And I haven’t even mentioned China and Taiwan. That’s a whole other layer of risk.

So, where do we go from here? There is no amicable solution. We are positioned for a long global war that’s absolutely possible.

 

[J_Dee]

Details.

Shoigu/Shoygu is a hardcore nationalist. He's directing Russia's current attack on Ukraine and he's one of the primary masterminds behind the destabilizing separatist movement in eastern Ukraine. In Syria, he was in part command responsible for a host of war crimes, including targeting schools, hospitals, and other civilians that were outside of combat zones without warning. He's not been as prominent since his thugs shot down Malaysian Airline Flight 17 over Donetsk Oblast (and murdered about 300 civilians, including about 100 kids under 18), but if Putin ever lets Shoigu off his leash again or if Putin was assassinated and wasn't around to keep Shoigu in check any longer, then I'd bet Ukraine would be knee-deep in blood right now.

Sechin (one of the alleged stars of the Steele dossier) doesn't seem to be as nuts as Shoigu but he's still a nationalist and he's pretty ruthless -- a long trail of ruin follows his ascension as an oil baron -- so who knows what he might do. His nickname's "Darth Vader". I wouldn't call him that to his face though.

 

[hmt5000]

You're letting allegiances fool you. Much of Putin's modern power derives from Trump's insistence on retreating from the world stage. He was very much an isolationist. The world is too interconnected for that type of thing to happen while still being isolationist. Not to mention:

1.) Trump eased many of the sanctions in place from the 2014 annexation, which prompted many members of his own party to speak out.
2.) Trump walked away from Syria in coordination with Russia, giving Putin a big geopolitical win in a tough arena. In doing so, Trump walked away from decades of Kurdish relations.
3.) Trump spent much of his time trying to woo Kim Jong Un, a fruitless endeavor, while neglecting to even work with many of our most prominent allies.
4.) Less than a month into office, Trump spilled Israeli intel while meeting with Russia.

I could go on for awhile but it all surmises to this, Trump did very little internationally. He made valid points, Germany did need to increase defense spending and ween itself off of Russian oil, but he also facilitated many of the issues we face today.

He's not alone though. Biden botched Afghanistan so bad that he had to conjure a new strain of COVID just to get away from it. He's trying to be forceful now but I'm not sure it's going to work. He also has three more years to continue fumbling the bag, so...

Either way, Trump was arguably one of the worst we've had since Reagan, and you may want to look into some of Reagan's international policies, while we're at it.

He ended nordstream 2. That was the biggest thing you could do the Russia financially at the time.

The Kurds in Syria are communist. They litter ali want to turn Syria into a communist nation. They don't have any connection to the Kurds in Iraq politically.

He tried to deal with Un and you think that was a bad move? So he only should step away from engaging crazy people with nukes but he should also make sure not to ignore a crazy person with nukes?? right?

Israel would disagree with you. Its well documented at this point that parts of our government were out to get him for anything they could and they just made shit up. The Russia bounty to isis being a perfect example. They knew it was story from 2014 that was proven false but they brought it back up in 2020 just to dirty him up before the election.

 

[MoneyMuntz]

Glad you posted this.

If you aren’t worried about what’s going on, congratulations. You’re a hero.

But I’ll lay out why I’m concerned and do have anxiety.

As it stands, there is no out to this conflict with out escalation. Ukrainians are dug in, Russians are committed and all of the modern world has chosen a side, mostly siding with Ukraine,

But meanwhile, a nuclear power’s economy is decimated, nuclear saber rattling is intensifying and Russia has no out. It’s important to stress again that there is no out. Putin is not going to turn around. They can and will only go one direction.

And on the west side of Europe, we are seeing a ramping up of militarization and polarization. Even the Swiss have departed from neutrality. When has the national militarization of Europe ever led to a positive result?

And in Poland we have jet fighters being donated, taking off from Polish air fields, and this is being done under the mentality that it’s not NATO, therefore within bounds. But this is only inbounds to the view of the westerners. Putin has stated he will strike the airfields these planes take off from (in Poland). That’s an automatic trigger for World War via article 5 of NATO doctrine.

Meanwhile, we have Russia, who will destroy Ukraine, and will eventually wake up as a country embarrassed, poor and stuck in quagmire. I am reminded of shades of Germany at end of WW1 with the Treaty of Versailles. It was a treaty criticized by historians as a precursor to WW2 and which crippled the country from recovery. And of course Russia will still exist. There will not be a total victory. That makes it even more dangerous. They aren’t just going to go away,

And then there are the parallels with Japan, who attacked the US following economic sanctions placed on them to halt the advancements of the Japanese empire.

And I haven’t even mentioned China and Taiwan. That’s a whole other layer of risk.

So, where do we go from here? There is no amicable solution. We are positioned for a long global war that’s absolutely possible.

Fantastic post and brilliantly articulates (better than I could) why I am concerned.

 

[hmt5000]

Well no. Just ordinary corrupt.

Actually Ukraine was ranked 3rd on the list of most corrupt countries. Russia was 7th. So Ukraine is more corrupt than Russia.

 

[hmt5000]

Partisan? Sure. Just like the partisan vote that followed that led to him to not be convicted. Either way it’s documented with evidence that Trump wasn’t a friend to Ukraine.

Yea.

 

[yes_takeaside]

I hope Ukraine returns the favor and hunts Putin down like a dog.

Surely you don’t believe that. Maybe you believed the bounty on US soldiers too. Some people will believe anything

 

[yes_takeaside]

You’ll be a Daisy if you can find any discussion on this or any forum where I expressed a lack knowledge of the Gulf of Tonkin incident/resolution . . . I live scarcely twenty miles from the home of the one Senator who voted against it, John Sherman Cooper, and studied it in detail in college and on my own.

But as your response is filled with the meandering revisionist views pushed upon us for seventy years by the enemies of Democracy, par for the course.

You actually used our action against Khadafi in your response, and then complain that Ukraine “is not a democracy?”

As I’ve noted in the past, if we are unable as a Republic to have the moral clarity to very clearly distinguish between the evil that was M. Khadafi and the heroic, fledgling democratic efforts in Ukraine, then we are doomed by moral relativism, which has now infected those who claim to be Conservative.

You actually ask in your response why the world has reacted so strongly to Russia’s actions in Ukraine, but was quiet regarding Libya???

Perhaps that is a hint that the rest of the world is capable of making a clear moral distinction between two situations that are as comparable as a firecracker to a five hundred pound block-buster.

But as your post proves, some lack that moral clarity.

Read “ democratic efforts in Ukraine” and put Hack back on Ignore. Take it off when football starts back up.

 

[yes_takeaside]

It's no right of Russia's to dictate the policies of a sovereign nation. Now, whether NATO expansion toward Eastern Europe was the right call in the early 2000s is an open question, but Ukraine alone has the right to determine what is best for its national security and defense.

I think a possible negotiated path out of this is for there to be a divided Ukraine. Russia gets whatever Russian-speaking parts its acquired, Ukraine keeps the rest that leans more West, and then we get a neutral Ukraine whose neutrality is protected by international convention/agreement like Belgium in the nineteenth century. Not ideal for anyone, but that's why it might be a compromise that sticks.

Did the US lead the coup in Ukraine in 2014 or not?

 

[CrittendenWildcat]

Surely you don’t believe that. Maybe you believed the bounty on US soldiers too. Some people will believe anything

I absolutely believe that Putin wants to assassinate Zelenskyy and has special forces currently actively endeavoring to do so.

 

[yes_takeaside]

You lost me at the abortion nonsense, booms.

That’s a personal decision made by a woman and her doctor and the church nor state don’t have any business in that arena. Let me guess, you’re the naïve type who thinks if something is illegal it will stop - just like drug smuggling and gun running has stopp…wait. The only thing prohibition does is create dangerous black markets.

Don’t like abortion? Don’t get one. Don’t like gay marriage? Don’t marry a dude. And on and on and on.

The military is allegedly weak and watered down, yet we spend more on defense than the next 10 nations combined?

Trump lost and got his ass handed to him in court with his fraud claims. Judges he appointed ruled against him in some cases. Get the f over it already.

Now go back to your hole, crank up the Newsmax, pull the shades closed and fap to that shit until you rub it raw or pull it off.

You’re full of bullsh*t. No court ever ruled on the election fraud cases. The cowards including SCOTUS were afraid of rioting.

 

[JBHolmesfan]

Not Putin.... There are generals in charge of "the plan" that invaded chechnya and georgia. We saw how that played out. This isn't playing out like those. Chechen war was terribly brutal.... on both sides. Russian soldiers seem to think they are doing a peace keeping mission because a few that were taken prisoner were shocked they weren't being hailed as liberators. It is just weird. I saw a general on fox or abc say the same. There are things he expected Russia to do the first few days that they just aren't doing... and its not just that Ukraine is fighting harder than he thought. The electric is on and internet up and tv and radio are all still working... that's the first hour of bombing right there.

This is what confuses me. I think we all thought Russia had quite a bit of military power and they’re struggling with a neighboring country. Maybe their soldiers don’t have that will to fight, but with everything we’ve heard about Russia’s cyber might, I’m shocked they haven’t done anything on that front.

 

[yes_takeaside]

I absolutely believe that Putin wants to assassinate Zelenskyy and has special forces currently actively endeavoring to do so.

Like I said some folks will believe anything.

 

[JBHolmesfan]

Its not far right in the sense we think... they are socialist. I've heard its around 26% of the country belongs to the nazi party, but you'll hear people argue + or - on that #, but they align with other socialist groups to go against pro russian groups and communist groups. Ukraine has like 15 political parties. None of them are what we would call free market capitalist. Some of the largest militias are definitely nazi party armies.

Interesting post. I didn’t know that about all the political parties in Ukraine. I learned something new. Thanks for the info!

 

[yes_takeaside]

Trump did, on tape, which he was later impeached for, attempt to withhold security assistance to Ukraine in exchange for dirt on a political rival.

Vindman, is that you? More bullsh*t Dem talking points

 

[MoneyMuntz]

Vindman, is that you? More bullsh*t Dem talking points

I mean that actually happened. Don’t know what to tell you.

 

[yes_takeaside]

I find it deeply troubling how so many in this thread look at this Ukraine situation as red vs blue US problem. We should probably stop trying to point fingers and blame each other and instead look for the best avenue to stop the invasion of sovereign countries and avoid world war 3. This is a critical juncture for the future of this planet as we deal with either an emboldened Russia/China or a weak, defeated Russia with China observing. Decision making in this area should not be based on what party you support. I have seen a more bipartisan approach in DC along with our NATO allies which is imperative to resolve this situation.

Go back and hide in your closet. Curl up with your security blanket and suck on your thumb.

 

[yes_takeaside]

I mean that actually happened. Don’t know what to tell you.

Bullsh*t. Zelenskyy said no but bet you support him now. It was a political impeachment and everyone knows it. He was not convicted.

 

[yes_takeaside]

Wouln't Russia be bordered by even more NATO countries if it "annexed" Ukraine? Sounds like a win-win if it was left as a buffer nation.

R u really that dumb. Ukraine was clamoring to join NATO. It will be a buffer nation with a Putin friendly regime. That’s the goal.

 

[yes_takeaside]

Glad you posted this.

If you aren’t worried about what’s going on, congratulations. You’re a hero.

But I’ll lay out why I’m concerned and do have anxiety.

As it stands, there is no out to this conflict with out escalation. Ukrainians are dug in, Russians are committed and all of the modern world has chosen a side, mostly siding with Ukraine,

But meanwhile, a nuclear power’s economy is decimated, nuclear saber rattling is intensifying and Russia has no out. It’s important to stress again that there is no out. Putin is not going to turn around. They can and will only go one direction.

And on the west side of Europe, we are seeing a ramping up of militarization and polarization. Even the Swiss have departed from neutrality. When has the national militarization of Europe ever led to a positive result?

And in Poland we have jet fighters being donated, taking off from Polish air fields, and this is being done under the mentality that it’s not NATO, therefore within bounds. But this is only inbounds to the view of the westerners. Putin has stated he will strike the airfields these planes take off from (in Poland). That’s an automatic trigger for World War via article 5 of NATO doctrine.

Meanwhile, we have Russia, who will destroy Ukraine, and will eventually wake up as a country embarrassed, poor and stuck in quagmire. I am reminded of shades of Germany at end of WW1 with the Treaty of Versailles. It was a treaty criticized by historians as a precursor to WW2 and which crippled the country from recovery. And of course Russia will still exist. There will not be a total victory. That makes it even more dangerous. They aren’t just going to go away,

And then there are the parallels with Japan, who attacked the US following economic sanctions placed on them to halt the advancements of the Japanese empire.

And I haven’t even mentioned China and Taiwan. That’s a whole other layer of risk.

So, where do we go from here? There is no amicable solution. We are positioned for a long global war that’s absolutely possible.

There is zero chance of nuclear war

 

[CrittendenWildcat]

Like I said some folks will believe anything.

Putin has had people whacked who were much less of a hindrance to his aspirations than the likes of Zelenskyy. So I agree with you, if you believe Putin doesn't have special forces on the ground in Ukraine right now dedicated to the eradication of Zelenskyy, you'll believe absolutely anything.

 

[MoneyMuntz]

Go back and hide in your closet. Curl up with your security blanket and suck on your thumb.

Wish I could but I can’t, I have to continue working a high level position supporting our troops tomorrow.

 

[MoneyMuntz]

Go back and hide in your closet. Curl up with your security blanket and suck on your thumb.

You’re such a tough keyboard hombre, a real macho ‘Merican. I bet if you had a foreign invader coming through your holler you wouldn’t be as tough and patriotic as those folks in the Ukraine are.

 

[Wildcats1st]

Putin is playing chess biden is playing with one of those matryoshka dolls

 

[Bigblue2023]

So do any of our resident idiots want to man up and admit their mistake in supporting Biden?

And if not - serious question - what more do you need to see?

Get with the program, it’s Trumps fault! Every single thing Biden has done so far is Trumps fault! If Trump didn’t do so well, Biden wouldn’t have so much to screw up! It’s all Trump!!!

 

[Platinumdrgn]

Seems like putin has finally determined his initial strategy of quick decapitation was a complete failure. Now he's switching to the good Ole shock and awe. I don't know if Ukraine cities will last much longer with a huge push.

 

[Hank Camacho]

I absolutely believe that Putin wants to assassinate Zelenskyy and has special forces currently actively endeavoring to do so.

I think the story is that Putin put mercenaries from the Wagner Group (essentially the Russian version of Blackwater) on that task. Those guys are not officially affiliated with the Russian military so if Zelenskyy gets a bullet in the back of the head after a commando raid, Putin could try to claim that it was overzealous mercenaries who will face punishment for war crimes rather than actual Spetsnaz acting at his direction.

Or Putin may not care at all about his international reputation and figure that unless there's a coup in Russia, nobody is bringing him to the Hague to face war crimes any way.

Wagner Group - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SDC888]

Glad you posted this.

If you aren’t worried about what’s going on, congratulations. You’re a hero.

But I’ll lay out why I’m concerned and do have anxiety.

As it stands, there is no out to this conflict with out escalation. Ukrainians are dug in, Russians are committed and all of the modern world has chosen a side, mostly siding with Ukraine,

But meanwhile, a nuclear power’s economy is decimated, nuclear saber rattling is intensifying and Russia has no out. It’s important to stress again that there is no out. Putin is not going to turn around. They can and will only go one direction.

And on the west side of Europe, we are seeing a ramping up of militarization and polarization. Even the Swiss have departed from neutrality. When has the national militarization of Europe ever led to a positive result?

And in Poland we have jet fighters being donated, taking off from Polish air fields, and this is being done under the mentality that it’s not NATO, therefore within bounds. But this is only inbounds to the view of the westerners. Putin has stated he will strike the airfields these planes take off from (in Poland). That’s an automatic trigger for World War via article 5 of NATO doctrine.

Meanwhile, we have Russia, who will destroy Ukraine, and will eventually wake up as a country embarrassed, poor and stuck in quagmire. I am reminded of shades of Germany at end of WW1 with the Treaty of Versailles. It was a treaty criticized by historians as a precursor to WW2 and which crippled the country from recovery. And of course Russia will still exist. There will not be a total victory. That makes it even more dangerous. They aren’t just going to go away,

And then there are the parallels with Japan, who attacked the US following economic sanctions placed on them to halt the advancements of the Japanese empire.

And I haven’t even mentioned China and Taiwan. That’s a whole other layer of risk.

So, where do we go from here? There is no amicable solution. We are positioned for a long global war that’s absolutely possible.

Good, make the case from the left that this ain't no joke. These idiots are blithely marching us into an incomprehensible catastrophe.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Numbers unverified.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Glad you posted this.

If you aren’t worried about what’s going on, congratulations. You’re a hero.

But I’ll lay out why I’m concerned and do have anxiety.

As it stands, there is no out to this conflict with out escalation. Ukrainians are dug in, Russians are committed and all of the modern world has chosen a side, mostly siding with Ukraine,

But meanwhile, a nuclear power’s economy is decimated, nuclear saber rattling is intensifying and Russia has no out. It’s important to stress again that there is no out. Putin is not going to turn around. They can and will only go one direction.

And on the west side of Europe, we are seeing a ramping up of militarization and polarization. Even the Swiss have departed from neutrality. When has the national militarization of Europe ever led to a positive result?

And in Poland we have jet fighters being donated, taking off from Polish air fields, and this is being done under the mentality that it’s not NATO, therefore within bounds. But this is only inbounds to the view of the westerners. Putin has stated he will strike the airfields these planes take off from (in Poland). That’s an automatic trigger for World War via article 5 of NATO doctrine.

Meanwhile, we have Russia, who will destroy Ukraine, and will eventually wake up as a country embarrassed, poor and stuck in quagmire. I am reminded of shades of Germany at end of WW1 with the Treaty of Versailles. It was a treaty criticized by historians as a precursor to WW2 and which crippled the country from recovery. And of course Russia will still exist. There will not be a total victory. That makes it even more dangerous. They aren’t just going to go away,

And then there are the parallels with Japan, who attacked the US following economic sanctions placed on them to halt the advancements of the Japanese empire.

And I haven’t even mentioned China and Taiwan. That’s a whole other layer of risk.

So, where do we go from here? There is no amicable solution. We are positioned for a long global war that’s absolutely possible.

Agree. Your concerns appear quite valid.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Well anyone saying that putin wasn't pushed into this now is delusional. Still a bad guy. But as the leader of Rusiia with geopolitics being what they are.... he had to invade Ukraine or risk being choked to death slowly.

You will have to unpack this for me to take it seriously. The EU and the world are accepting your greatest asset, energy. The more the world becomes reliant upon your natural resources, the more economic influence you have, the more you can grow your economy and diversify your exports. It’s the imperialist mindset that thwarts advancing the strengths of your country and people. No NATO country desires to invade Russia. It has half the nukes in the world. This is a pro Putin anti-Russia move. This is only necessary if you desire to continue to be the aggressor toward the West.

 

[Gassy_Knowls]

Apparently the media has been doing a lot of false news on the situation lol surprise surprise surprise

https://thenationalpulse.com/2022/02/28/pro-ukraine-propaganda-floods-social-media/

 

[Caveman Catfan]

yeah it’s a pick your poison situation. Both countries being run by very bad people. Both countries have people that will suffer, yet only one side in America is ok with the two set of bad people. I don’t get it.

Let’s say you are correct and there is no good guy in this war and both are seen as bad to the West. Why then would we let Russia poundcake Ukraine? Why wouldn’t we support the underdog to create, as others mentioned here, a quagmire? We were not fans of the Afghans, but we also did not mind Russia being bogged down in the Middle East. Under your theory, as I understand your post, you should want this to continue to weaken both participants on the world stage.

 

[Gassy_Knowls]

Let’s say you are correct and there is no good guy in this war and both are seen as bad to the West. Why then would we let Russia poundcake Ukraine? Why wouldn’t we support the underdog to create, as others mentioned here, a quagmire? We were not fans of the Afghans, but we also did not mind Russia being bogged down in the Middle East. Under your theory, as I understand your post, you should want this to continue to weaken both participants on the world stage.

Well, we really don't have a choice in this now, We played our hand and set our future in 2014 by funding to overthrow Urkaine's govt.

And now we are seeing the chickens come home to roost.

 

[CrittendenWildcat]

10 year treasury yield has dropped 25 basis points in the past 36 hours or so. That's a strong harbinger for 30-year interest rates to drop as well. Been watching it like a hawk, since my rate is about to lock on the loan for the house I purchased.

Thanks, Putin, I guess?

 

[Sawnee Cat]

Biden sat back and allowed Putin to amass a massive amount of armament on borders in Russia and Belarus. That was the time to act. Instead he went on tv daily or spoke out for months “their gonna attack their gonna attack” and did nothing instead opting for reaction. We know that the first to deliver ultimatums generally that’s the direction things go. Well we let Putin go into Ukraine and now deliver the ultimatums and are reacting in a reckless way. Soon the pressure will get to Putin more so massive pressure and he will target those who put him there based on his perception

Biden is Commander In Chief of a WOKE military. He is a fool when it comes to handling an enemy. The only thing we have to worry about is how to use the proper pronoun. I am struggling with that so that concerns me.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Loooong thread on this by an actual expert of Russia

 

[Warrior Poet31]

What Is the Difference Between Kosovo & Donbass?

The U.S. has declared that Donbass is different. How it is different, nobody will say, because you are not supposed to ask, writes Vladimir Golstein. By Vladimir Golstein There once was a country called Yugoslavia. It was a multi-ethnic, multi-religious federalist country, rather prosper

consortiumnews.com

 

[Girthang]

Shoigu/Shoygu is a hardcore nationalist. He's directing Russia's current attack on Ukraine and he's one of the primary masterminds behind the destabilizing separatist movement in eastern Ukraine. In Syria, he was in part command responsible for a host of war crimes, including targeting schools, hospitals, and other civilians that were outside of combat zones without warning. He's not been as prominent since his thugs shot down Malaysian Airline Flight 17 over Donetsk Oblast (and murdered about 300 civilians, including about 100 kids under 18), but if Putin ever lets Shoigu off his leash again or if Putin was assassinated and wasn't around to keep Shoigu in check any longer, then I'd bet Ukraine would be knee-deep in blood right now.

Sechin (one of the alleged stars of the Steele dossier) doesn't seem to be as nuts as Shoigu but he's still a nationalist and he's pretty ruthless -- a long trail of ruin follows his ascension as an oil baron -- so who knows what he might do. His nickname's "Darth Vader". I wouldn't call him that to his face though.

Interesting

 

[AustinTXCat]

Loooong thread on this by an actual expert of Russia

View embedded media

Read yesterday. Dude knows his stuff. Many valid points.