Imagine being part to the battalion assigned to taking Chernobyl. Those guys are probably pissed.
Russia - Ukraine WAR Warning: Political Discussions
- Thread starter Canned Heat
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Nope. No rationalization. There is a big difference between US and Canada and Ukraine and Russia. That is that they have been part of the same country. Ukraine historically in Russia was the center of science and research. I am reminded of this quote:
“It cannot be stressed enough that without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be an empire, but with Ukraine suborned and then subordinated, Russia automatically becomes an empire [95].”
― Zbigniew Brzeziński, Strategic Vision: America and the Crisis of Global Power
They initially signed a peace treaty to mutually take over Poland, it wasn’t until later that Germany tried to get to the Soviet Union as they didn’t want a war on 2 fronts. Good catch on the forest instead of the mountains, thanks for correction.
My main point however was Germany was humiliated and basically blamed for WW1 and decimated. Japan was completely crippled and starving with their sanctions. Those are the types of things that will motivate an entire population to go to war. Is Russia or China like that? Serious question as I don’t know. Without surprise attacks and a strangled population I don’t see the parallels. I could be wrong and would love to hear it if I’m not as I’m curious about it. This thread is 99% adolescent trash.
Russia has the military numbers with both personnel and equipment. There will be a lot of deaths regardless. They could possibly get bogged down but that will be up to the resolve of the Ukrainian people. Not sure they can hold off long enough especially since there are Russian supporters in that region everywhere.
He needs to since he called on his people to do the same.
UKraine has historically been a part of Russian and historically not been a part of Russia. Don’t attempt to justify this.
No argument on this except if sanctions or anything we do non militarily puts the American people in a much worse condition than we are now economically (inflation, gas shortages, natural gas shortages, etc...) then we need not get involved. Europe needs to take a bigger role (the lead) in this, and we need only support them if they put forth their share of the financial burden which they have not historically done.
Quite literally because the US population had/has no thirst for a new war in Europe. You could add the European Nations as well. Think back to 2016 when part of Trump's political platform was about pulling out of Nato. How could we have taken a stronger military step at that point and who would have led it? Then look at everything regarding Russia. We didn't prevent them from taking Criema in 2014, we have a Senate investigation that proves they interfered in our Election in 2016, we have evidence of incredibly deep and lasting cyberwarfare attacks on our country including specific government systems, and we pulled troops out of Syria allowing Russia to becoming the main power broker there while also abandoning our allies. None of these events resulted in any sort of strong US response. Our attitude has been one of either capitulation or indifference towards Russia for nearly a decade. Why wouldn't they feel emboldened to make a stronger move.
So now, the response they are taking is to try and hammer them economically and for the first time they are bringing the Russian Oligarchs in to share the pain. Hopefully that works because the next step will be boots on the ground and that has the potential to be catastrophic.
There is no justification. Haven't justified attack once in this thread. Russia has also historically been a part of Ukraine.
Says the idiot attacking posters here this morning.
I don't recall any sanctions against Japan. They fought on the side of the Allies in WWI, and previously had seen their biggest military success by easily defeating Russia in the Russo-Japanese war. After WWI they embarked on a military conquest of the Asian mainland and the Pacific Islands. They were in full Imperialist mode at the start of WWII.
July 26th, 1941. Unwilling to allow Japan to go unchecked in its occupation of foreign territories, the United States imposed a series of hefty sanctions against Japan. The sanctions froze assets within the United States, resulting in the loss of three-quarters of Japan’s overseas trade.
I don’t know how the average Russian feels about the fall of the Soviet Union. They went from one of the worlds 2 super powers to mediocrity.
China is the wild card, will the world ever hold them accountable for Covid? Would backing Russia’s actions be enough for the west to cut ties and start holding China to account?
The US is war weary, the populace is not the same as it was in 1941, mentality wise, Covid has taken a toll on us, IMO we have weak leadership, it would take longer for us to ramp up the necessary manufacturing to make war than prior periods. If you were a foreign nation with eyes to change the World order, right now might look like a prime time to move militarily without the US responding.
We hit them with oil and steel embargoes for their actions in China.
Good post. I was going to research this as I knew we froze assets and did things to prevent them from getting oil. The Japanese used this as justification to attack Pearl Harbor, as well as the European and US holdings in the Pacific such as the Philippines, Hong Kong, etc.
These sanctions were nothing like what was going on in Germany. I was looking for something like the Treaty of Paris and the Weimar republic. This wasn't that. And they only impacted Japan's expansion. If they weren't invading their neighbors, they wouldn't have needed all the fuel.
It's in the name and yet they still can't figure it out.
The anti-foreign wars crowd are pissed that Biden won't go to war. You can't make up this shit. lmfao
You should watch the WW2 in color doc on Netflix - I’m serious. I watched it last month it was amazing. You can go right to the Pearl Harbor episode and learn everything about it in 50 mins. The sanctions was absolutely one of the main reasons for Pearl Harbor. It allowed the military war dog leaders to take over.
The parallels you see are U being willing for R takeover or just that R is doing it? U isn't willing. G didn't need to fight to take A. R needs to do that to take U. Net, very weak attempt at parallels imo.
You have it bassackwards as to which part of P that G & R took in WW2.
No, G attacked F thru B - the north.
Maybe you're deliberately trying to be dumb. Don't know.
Ukraine is not a US military ally. Friendly - yes.
I will dig into it at some point. Never really read much about that aspect of the war. Thanks for the info.
I’m going to do what most people do when they read your posts like everyone in the COVID thread. I’m putting your dumbass on ignore. Peace out.
You pussy. I just got reinterested in this thread and you're not even going to humor the waterhead?
Not trying to start argument, but what could we have done to stop Russia short of putting advisers 7 weapons in Ukraine. IOW, provoking a Russia attack?
Short-term, sanctions do near nothing. Long-term, they make being in Ukraine very expensive through lost access to markets & materials. I think the invasion ultimately drains Russia. May take decades.
I'd kick every Russian business out of the West & confiscate their properties. I'd counter-cyberattack. I'd make the West a no fly zone for Russia aircraft/airlines. I'd shadow their subs.
Putin has made it clear. The only way to stop him is to call his bluff. Sanctions are mere virtue signaling. If Biden makes it 4 full years, by the time he leaves office, Ukraine will be whatever Russia wants it to be and it is likely “sanctions” will no longer be and we will remain reliant upon external sources for our energy. He knows that the Ukraine is not that important to anyone outside of Russia and the Ukraine, except for those bordering nations who must wonder who and what is next.
Ukraine has been independent since 1991 & Russia recognized such in 1994 at Budapest. By this logic, US can reasonably tolerated for taking over the UK. I mean we were part of the same country, right? Net, what you're saying is that Russia has the right to be an empire. So why should they stop with just Ukraine?
Agreed, we should not get involved (militarily) in either for many reasons most important being because not only is our nation war weary but more importantly so are our war fighters. Many who were in as a career started getting out a few years ago because of too many deployments and spending more time away than home. In some cases, they would come back only to be PCSed and stationed overseas in other areas where units were being deployed to the war zone and they would be right back in it. I saw many NCO's and Officers who were getting out because of this very thing. That and the changing climate in the military.
This ain’t the first time Putin has done this. He invaded Georgia in 2005 (?) when they started talking about pursuing NATO and even EU membership. The US didn’t care because we needed tacit Russian support for the War on Terror.
But things like that just emboldened Putin and eventually made his endgame clear.
I’m not smart enough to have any answers to any of this but I do know that war is hell and a lot of innocent Ukrainians are going to be the ones suffering.
But things like that just emboldened Putin and eventually made his endgame clear.
I’m not smart enough to have any answers to any of this but I do know that war is hell and a lot of innocent Ukrainians are going to be the ones suffering.
You're suggesting I am making an argument I am not making. I merely stated, which is accurate, that Ukraine is personal to Russians. Nothing more. If I have an agenda here, it's being pro-west. I have no other angle honestly. Also, the quote in question was taken out of context of rest of the post.
What I am trying to communicate is that the west's apprehension of Ukraine joining NATO was in part due to entangling NATO in a conflict due in part to Russia's view of Ukraine as being a historical part of Russia. In the same post, I also stated that NATO probably should've added Ukraine when it could have.
It makes no sense to me that this is construed to be a defense of Russia. You can certainly argue that this is not one of the factors that led to Ukraine not being a part of NATO, but nothing else really makes sense to me to be honest.
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Neither does Europe. Qooks beat the anti-war, nationalist drum since 2015. But every time Biden ends a war or doesn't take the war bait, they get pissed.
In addition, you guys are cheerleading Russian imperialists doing exactly what you're against! Again, you can't make this shit up.
Yeah - good stuff there, man
Dead on with the characterization of Japans activities in that era
Most of what you’re referencing is overlooked by ppl with a passing interest in wars/national history etc
They took many of those pacific islands from Germany -
They also fought one battle against Germany in WW1 i believe — the port city of TsingTao (sp?) .....i think there were roughly 3,000 German marines facing down 20,000 Japanese soldiers?
Speaking of sanctions and their lasting effects -
Germany was unjustly saddled with the ENTIRE war debt burden for WW1
And they faithfully paid that debt off somewhere around 2014
Talk about never ending interest payments - Oy Vey Mein Freund!!
Dafuq are you talking about, James. You got it backwards. Cmon, man.
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