Russia - Ukraine WAR Warning: Political Discussions

[hmt5000]

I don’t allow others tell me who I date. Maybe he whips my ass, maybe he bites off more than he can chew. Regardless, what he wants couldn’t be less important to me. No, I don’t carry any of the burden because he never had any right or business in my affairs.
Ah, but the entire planet minus a few countries are all lining up to help Ukraine because of Hunter Biden. Good gawd you’re stupid.

So now imagine that guy has nukes and could kill millions of people.... You still so cavalier? Tough guy willing to take millions of people to the grave with him because "Nobody tells me what to do"...? Now imagine it isn't even you dating her but some dude you don't even know and he drags you into the fight because of his pride????

Diplomacy used to be a thing, but alas our state dept treats other countries like you would treat a potential date. It's only human life at stake for your pride. "we want this country so damn anyone that says no".... Victoria Nuland.

Do realize how many people die on planet Earth if ww3 kicks off over Ukraine?

 

[hmt5000]

Again, the people in your report are the minority POV in Ukraine. There are leaders in every group. Yes, I watched and listened to the entire report. Why do you give so much weight to that report but dismiss others from the same source? You think you can fit it to a narrative you want to believe.

" I talked to these Pro russian supporters and they said they didn't want to join russia"... So are they pro Russian? Is cbs selling a narrative?

 

[CastleRubric]

Jeezzus, let’s venture back to the 8 century why don’t we? Ukraine and Russia have been separate states for the last 1200 years or so.
Our strategic goal is to help a sovereign state remain so and to help it defend itself.
Guess we could always just allow Ukraine to arm itself with nukes so that they wouldn’t need our help. They had them during the USSR and gave them up with the promise they would be protected and guaranteed sovereignty.

So you’re just ready to throw them to the wolves?

As long as we keep the doctrine against nuclear proliferation then we’re kind of stuck in the role of big brother. Give Ukraine what they need to drive the Russian army off their soil, grant them membership in NATO.

I’m saying that we should at least attempt to understand the history and associated cultural forces that factor in here -

Why wouldn’t you?

Cause that’s the shitshow we’re used to seeing?
Worlds greatest media propaganda outlets singing our praises as we blunder ignorantly and ineffectively into another war we cant afford — have NO business fighting —- while queuing up another generation of hapless veterans who’ll bear the brunt of George Soros’ wrath directed at Russia

No legitimate or even half assed strategy on what our goals would exactly BE —

What WOULD they be damnit??
The “Protect Ukraine from Russia forever” tour?

Take Russia off the board entirely?

Draft a peaceful resolution while flanking Russia with halfassed - untested NATO combat units?!

That we pay for - ? Again???

Willing to use nukes to stop Russia if they overrun our initial defensive lines?
No?
So not THAT committed

They’d need to be -

USA needs limp home and spend some quiet time contemplating the ENORMOUS FKK-SHOW WE DISPLAYED IN AFGHANISTAN


I seriously struggle to believe that anyone on this board TRULY THINKS that our beleaguered military.......is ready for ANY KIND OF MAJOR REGIONAL CONFLICT -‘Sr Leaders better start considering how they can defend the homeland itself

 

[rqarnold]

So now imagine that guy has nukes and could kill millions of people.... You still so cavalier? Tough guy willing to take millions of people to the grave with him because "Nobody tells me what to do"...? Now imagine it isn't even you dating her but some dude you don't even know and he drags you into the fight because of his pride????

Diplomacy used to be a thing, but alas our state dept treats other countries like you would treat a potential date. It's only human life at stake for your pride. "we want this country so damn anyone that says no".... Victoria Nuland.

Do realize how many people die on planet Earth if ww3 kicks off over Ukraine?

Let’s get this straight. You think Russia should be allowed to do whatever it wants because they have nukes and could start WWIII?
Where is your line? The Baltics? Poland? Where?If Russia wishes to start a nuclear exchange it won’t end well for anyone but either sovereignty means something or it doesn’t. WWIII won’t get Russia what it wants.

 

[rqarnold]

I’m saying that we should at least attempt to understand the history and associated cultural forces that factor in here -

Why wouldn’t you?

Cause that’s the shitshow we’re used to seeing?
Worlds greatest media propaganda outlets singing our praises as we blunder ignorantly and ineffectively into another war we cant afford — have NO business fighting —- while queuing up another generation of hapless veterans who’ll bear the brunt of George Soros’ wrath directed at Russia

No legitimate or even half assed strategy on what our goals would exactly BE —

What WOULD they be damnit??
The “Protect Ukraine from Russia forever” tour?

Take Russia off the board entirely?

Draft a peaceful resolution while flanking Russia with halfassed - untested NATO combat units?!

That we pay for - ? Again???

Willing to use nukes to stop Russia if they overrun our initial defensive lines?
No?
So not THAT committed

They’d need to be -

USA needs limp home and spend some quiet time contemplating the ENORMOUS FKK-SHOW WE DISPLAYED IN AFGHANISTAN


I seriously struggle to believe that anyone on this board TRULY THINKS that our beleaguered military.......is ready for ANY KIND OF MAJOR REGIONAL CONFLICT -‘Sr Leaders better start considering how they can defend the homeland itself

Dude, Ukraine doesn’t need us to fight their war. They’re willing to do the heavy lifting themselves if we just give them the tools to do so. No, we don’t want a war but then we didn’t go and attack anyone.

 

[CastleRubric]

Continuing to see attacks on the Orthodox Christian Church in Ukraine —

100% certain of outside support/advocacy for this shitheel move :

Ukrainian Church Under Attack by Ultra-Nationalists

BANNING the Ukrainian Orthodox Church?


^^^ that type of provocation will blow up in peoples faces — TRULY a bad idea

 

[hmt5000]

I’m saying that we should at least attempt to understand the history and associated cultural forces that factor in here -

Why wouldn’t you?

Cause that’s the shitshow we’re used to seeing?
Worlds greatest media propaganda outlets singing our praises as we blunder ignorantly and ineffectively into another war we cant afford — have NO business fighting —- while queuing up another generation of hapless veterans who’ll bear the brunt of George Soros’ wrath directed at Russia

No legitimate or even half assed strategy on what our goals would exactly BE —

What WOULD they be damnit??
The “Protect Ukraine from Russia forever” tour?

Take Russia off the board entirely?

Draft a peaceful resolution while flanking Russia with halfassed - untested NATO combat units?!

That we pay for - ? Again???

Willing to use nukes to stop Russia if they overrun our initial defensive lines?
No?
So not THAT committed

They’d need to be -

USA needs limp home and spend some quiet time contemplating the ENORMOUS FKK-SHOW WE DISPLAYED IN AFGHANISTAN

They don't want to because it's against the narrative. Ukraine isn't a historically aligned people.

Europe 1880

Europe in 1900

Europe 1914

1920

1939

1944

1960

The area of The Ukraine has been controlled by several countries over the last 100 years. It is not a homogenous area. Yes their are people that want to form a Ukraine proper. But parts of Ukraine want to leave and don't want to join Russia either. It would be like the great plains being lumped together and people in Oklahoma being told that they are going to join with Kansas and South Dakota and Kansas is going to rule them... and It isn't just those areas. Their is an area in the north that Poland claims and the majority of it's citizens are Polish and that is why Ukraine was really suspicious of Poland sending in troops to "help".

 

[hmt5000]

Dude, Ukraine doesn’t need us to fight their war. They’re willing to do the heavy lifting themselves if we just give them the tools to do so. No, we don’t want a war but then we didn’t go and attack anyone.

Assad say's hello.

 

[rqarnold]

I’m saying that we should at least attempt to understand the history and associated cultural forces that factor in here -

Why wouldn’t you?

Cause that’s the shitshow we’re used to seeing?
Worlds greatest media propaganda outlets singing our praises as we blunder ignorantly and ineffectively into another war we cant afford — have NO business fighting —- while queuing up another generation of hapless veterans who’ll bear the brunt of George Soros’ wrath directed at Russia

No legitimate or even half assed strategy on what our goals would exactly BE —

What WOULD they be damnit??
The “Protect Ukraine from Russia forever” tour?

Take Russia off the board entirely?

Draft a peaceful resolution while flanking Russia with halfassed - untested NATO combat units?!

That we pay for - ? Again???

Willing to use nukes to stop Russia if they overrun our initial defensive lines?
No?
So not THAT committed

They’d need to be -

USA needs limp home and spend some quiet time contemplating the ENORMOUS FKK-SHOW WE DISPLAYED IN AFGHANISTAN


I seriously struggle to believe that anyone on this board TRULY THINKS that our beleaguered military.......is ready for ANY KIND OF MAJOR REGIONAL CONFLICT -‘Sr Leaders better start considering how they can defend the homeland itself

Continuing to see attacks on the Orthodox Christian Church in Ukraine —

100% certain of outside support/advocacy for this shitheel move :

Ukrainian Church Under Attack by Ultra-Nationalists

BANNING the Ukrainian Orthodox Church?


^^^ that type of provocation will blow up in peoples faces — TRULY a bad idea

If the church is embedding itself into the politics then it ceases to be a house of worship.

 

[rqarnold]

Assad say's hello.

Perhaps Assad should stop using chemical weapons on his own people.

 

[hmt5000]

Perhaps Assad should stop using chemical weapons on his own people.

Did he?

https://www.newsweek.com/now-mattis...ence-assad-using-poison-gas-his-people-801542

Now Mattis Admits There Was No Evidence Assad Used Poison Gas on His People: Opinion​

Lost in the hyper-politicized hullabaloo surrounding the Nunes Memorandum and the Steele Dossier was the striking statement by Secretary of Defense James Mattis that the U.S. has "no evidence" that the Syrian government used the banned nerve agent Sarin against its own people.

This assertion flies in the face of the White House (NSC) Memorandum which was rapidly produced and declassified to justify an American Tomahawk missile strike against the Shayrat airbase in Syria.

Mattis offered no temporal qualifications, which means that both the 2017 event in Khan Sheikhoun and the 2013 tragedy in Ghouta are unsolved cases in the eyes of the Defense Department and Defense Intelligence Agency.

 

[CastleRubric]

Dude, Ukraine doesn’t need us to fight their war. They’re willing to do the heavy lifting themselves if we just give them the tools to do so. No, we don’t want a war but then we didn’t go and attack anyone.

Agreed that we have no business wading into the conflict then

So then we try and play it like 1978 again when The Soviets invaded Afghanistan and we funded the mujahadeen with light arms and stinger missiles ?

If we don’t have the reason or the resolve to fight in Ukraine - then we shouldn’t be pumping weapons in either —

I’m going to remain stubbornly hopeful that the units already deployed are just for posturing - that’s embarrassing and wasteful enough but not as bad as committing to a land war in Eurasia with no genuine objectives or strategic plans for winning , scaling up/back and exiting

 

[CastleRubric]

If the church is embedding itself into the politics then it ceases to be a house of worship.

If the church is being targeted and used by outsiders to agitate conflict and “cultural revolution” that’s a sickening display of apathy and disdain towards another culture you know ?

Arnold - tell me true dude

You don’t support sending US troops into that fight do you ?

I think i’ve raged at the idea and managed to
make it seem like i’m putting words in your mouth

 

[The-Hack]

At a minimum the two States worked out an agreement that placed Russian assets and military forces in both Kiev & Sevastopol before the United States was even bothering to locate either location on the map

Which two states worked out an agreement that placed Russian military forces in Kiev, the Capitol city of Ukraine.

I missed that one.

 

[The-Hack]

Hypersonics don't help us with their hypersonics. We'd need lazer's or something to defend against those.

Yes and yes.

To have a hypersonic to shoot at/plan against, we had to have one of our own. Unless we could talk a strategic adversary into letting us test on theirs.

The ICBM’s we’ve shot down since 2007 were our own, available for experimentation.

 

[CastleRubric]

Which two states worked out an agreement that placed Russian military forces in Kiev, the Capitol city of Ukraine.

I missed that one.

It’s ok - there’s a lot of stuff in play and it gets hard seeing the pieces

Talking about the Sevastopol Agreement for starters - this link references it w/brief summaries of what both sides agreed to ...but then there’s quite a bit of statistical references to stakeholder opinion of the agmt by political party (not really relevant here )

The Sevastopol Agreement

other treaties between the two natons have been signed and accepted as well - for example the The Black Sea Fleet Agreement resulted in Ukraine agreeing to allow Russian
forces to remain inside Ukrainian territory to continue manning Russian nuclear subs

there were multiple revisions to the BSF Agmt and ultimately Ukraine permitted Russia to station “a maximum of 25,000 troops, 132 armored combat vehicles and 24 pieces of artillery at its military facilities in Crimea.”

I’ll leave it with those as a starter reference for now - they have other agmts that have contributed to the seemingly mixed status of some portions of Ukraine

 

[The-Hack]

have NO business fighting —-

No one in a position of authority has endorsed our entry, or a no fly zone, to my knowledge.

And I haven’t seen that proposition by anyone on this thread.

And you argue very well against the position I have not seen proposed . . . I completely agree that we should not be fighting Ukraine’s War, as they seem to be the only power not floundering in doing so.

 

[The-Hack]

It’s ok - there’s a lot of stuff in play and it gets hard seeing the pieces

I’ve read all your links to date. I was familiar with these “pieces.”

The “piece” hardest for me to see is the one I asked about . . . that “the two States worked out an agreement that placed Russian assets and military forces in . . . Kiev . . . .”

 

[hmt5000]

No one in a position of authority has endorsed our entry, or a no fly zone, to my knowledge.

And I haven’t seen that proposition by anyone on this thread.

And you argue very well against the position I have not seen proposed . . . I completely agree that we should not be fighting Ukraine’s War, as they seem to be the only power not floundering in doing so.

Yea. but nobody was talking about going into Iraq after 9/11 until after the MIC kept the steady beat of war going. It's hard for me to look at one war separate from the last 28 that the cia and state dept have led us into. I've grown to just be anti war before we get to the point of people openly calling for war... or calling for the removal of the president of a nuclear power.

 

[CastleRubric]

No one in a position of authority has endorsed our entry, or a no fly zone, to my knowledge.

And I haven’t seen that proposition by anyone on this thread.

And you argue very well against the position I have not seen proposed . . . I completely agree that we should not be fighting Ukraine’s War, as they seem to be the only power not floundering in doing so.

i was starting to think i might be bellowing at thin air there. — you’re right — i dont recall seeing anyone here actually call for military intervention there

Honestly i’m furious at how our military has been used in recent history and the Afghan pull out ....i mean GD that was a spit in the face moment

Ah crap - poor arnold —- i wasn’t yelling at YOU

i’m going to step outside for a smoke break and
come back better focused (but probably without pants ....so....)

 

[The-Hack]

It's hard for me to look at one war separate from the last 28

The nuclear balance of power keeps us out of a direct war with Russia, aka, a US entry into the Ukrainian war, just as that balance of nuclear power kept them out of entry into the Korean and Vietnamese Wars.

Neither the Iraq war nor our war in Afghanistan threatened the use (by anyone) of nuclear weapons.

 

[The-Hack]

but probably without pants ....so....)

F’kin’ tease!!

 

[hmt5000]

The nuclear balance of power keeps us out of a direct war with Russia, aka, a US entry into the Ukrainian war, just as that balance of nuclear power kept them out of entry into the Korean and Vietnamese Wars.

Neither the Iraq war nor our war in Afghanistan threatened the use (by anyone) of nuclear weapons.

What about that part where Biden said "this man cannot stay in power"? And then when asked if he was walking it back... "Im not walking anything back". How do we remove Putin from power peacefully?

 

[CastleRubric]

I’ve read all your links to date. I was familiar with these “pieces.”

The “piece” hardest for me to see is the one I asked about . . . that “the two States worked out an agreement that placed Russian assets and military forces in . . . Kiev . . . .”

I think i’m wrong about the allowance for
Russian assets in kiev -

Crimea and Sevastopol certainly -

I could have sworn there was a mutual agreement for joint address within Kiev

which granted , isn’t the same as “military assets in kiev”

 

[The-Hack]

I’m going to remain stubbornly hopeful that the units already deployed are just for posturing - that’s embarrassing and wasteful enough

The Latvians, Poles, Estonians and Lithuanian’s don’t share that embarrassment.

 

[The-Hack]

How do we remove Putin from power peacefully?

His own people can and should do it, and statements by Biden and others in the EU criminalizing his conduct are pointers in that direction.

Russia has a history of embarrassing, failed offenses resulting in a change of leadership at the top, from primarily internal forces.

 

[CastleRubric]

The Latvians, Poles, Estonians and Lithuanian’s don’t share that embarrassment.

That’s not any degree of an acceptable justification for moving military hardware in and preparing to fight Russia

Because some ppl there want us to?

They believe we should elevate the status of Baltic borders. - over US borders ?

Very poor timing to try and sell that .....unless you’re a Govt that has dropped all pretense of working for the vital interests of its ppl right ?

What’s the strategic goal(s) & purpose of deploying militarily and what victory conditions are you seeking once you go in?

Can’t be “poland wanted us there”

 

[CastleRubric]

His own people can and should do it, and statements by Biden and others in the EU criminalizing his conduct are pointers in that direction.

Russia has a history of embarrassing, failed offenses resulting in a change of leadership at the top, from primarily internal forces.

We never made any attempt to remove Lenin or Stalin — so of course it’s Putin that finally gets us revved up for suicide

Interested in what the scope and range of economic sanctions look like now between the US and RUS

 

[The-Hack]

What’s the strategic goal(s) & purpose of deploying militarily and what victory conditions are you seeking once you go in?

Those explicit goals and purposes were settled with the foundation of NATO: the prevention of aggressive war against/invasion of NATO states (and implicitly prevention of war among NATO states——West Germany joining in 1955).

Victory conditions? I’d settle for no Russian invasion of NATO states, so far a 73 year, 1000 batting average.

 

[The-Hack]

They believe we should elevate the status of Baltic borders. - over US borders ?

Since the late 40’s, by treaty the borders of NATO members are equal, and neither the borders of our European members nor our own are elevated above the borders of the other members.

Cross one, and you have crossed them all.

 

[CastleRubric]

No one in a position of authority has endorsed our entry, or a no fly zone, to my knowledge.

And I haven’t seen that proposition by anyone on this thread.

And you argue very well against the position I have not seen proposed . . . I completely agree that we should not be fighting Ukraine’s War, as they seem to be the only power not floundering in doing so.

hahaha i’m reading this again and seeing myself raving away and air punching like Roberto Duran after being roophied

OK - established the stance on the US invading fm the other side 💪

 

[The-Hack]

Did he?

Couldn’t help but notice you linked a film/piece by Eva Bartlett.

Here’s a real entertaining article where she reveals what a worker’s paradise North Korea is . . . man that had entirely passed me by!

https://www.mintpressnews.com/north-korea-neither-trump-nor-western-media-wants-world-see/233355/

This Lady writes with such talent and persuasion, she needs to give a crack at revisiting Nazi Germany and Stalinistic Russia. I bet those Gulags, Stalags and death camps would have looked entirely different through her unbiased eyes.

 

[The-Hack]

OK - established the stance on the US invading fm the other side 💪

I was assured that Doors’ songs would not be referenced in War threads.

 

[The-Hack]

We never made any attempt to remove Lenin or Stalin

We had boots by the thousands on the ground in Russia early in Lenin’s tenure. We were allied with Uncle Joe during his best and worst years.

Revved up for suicide?

Not me.

Kentucky might win the East in ‘22 and I don’t want radiation poisoning the first year back without a mask!!

 

[CastleRubric]

Those goals and purposes were settled with the foundation of NATO: the prevention of aggressive war against/invasion of NATO states.

Victory conditions? I’d settle for no Russian invasion of NATO states, so far a 73 year, 1000 batting average.

So remember that NATO involvement comes with a pledge to the “purposes and principles” of the United Nations as well -

so i see that as two giant dead weight entities that will gladly receive US resources but NEVER return the same loyalty and protection for US borders and our people - a net drain from 2 outdated dinosaurs ....neither with a track record of successful outcomes

I’ve linked the NATO Treaty Here



Notice how often it states a commitment to territorial integrity and mutual protection of their borders ....

how’s that been working for Europe or America?

👊😸👊

but they’re operating outside of NATO borders aren’t they?

Germany wasn’t invaded by Ukraine so - NATO has no functional role or justification in launching attacks outside their shared perimeter - esp if they havent been attacked or threatened by anyone involved in
this conflict

They’re the aggressors - this is Soros’ rented army going into the exact regions he said he would go into — and consistently supporting the types of changes that GS political organs claim


George Freaking Soros
A real live Nazi sympathizer

There’s our champion - come ON, HackAShaq

 

[CastleRubric]

I was assured that Doors’ songs would not be referenced in War threads.

i think The Alabama Song is the only tune of theirs i kind of like

How can you TRUST any band that doesn’t put a bass player up there ....Hack-E-Sack , man - that ain’t credible

 

[The-Hack]

That’s not any degree of an acceptable justification for moving military hardware in and preparing to fight Russia

Preparing to defend our allies has worked very well.

how’s that been working for Europe or America?

It kept the Soviets out of Western Europe and has prevented war in between the great powers of Western Europe (France, the U.K., Germany) for the longest successive period since, what, the first millennium AD.

A pretty good record.

Are you seriously proposing isolationism? That failed after just 18 years of experimentation, compared to 73 years of success with NATO.

 

[CastleRubric]

We had boots by the thousands on the ground in Russia early in Lenin’s tenure. We were allied with Uncle Joe during his best and worst years.

Revved up for suicide?

Not me.

Kentucky might win the East in ‘22 and I don’t want radiation poisoning the first year back without a mask!!

“we had boots on the ...”

i believe you’re talking about the international expeditionary forces that went into central asia after WW1 -?

I’m not talking about an actual planned and appropriately resourced short term strike to remove the head of the snake -

not attempting to do anything about Stalin -
even worse — MUCH WORSE

it has more impact on my immediate mental state than it probably should. —


So the United States should amicably resign their position & exit NATO

Draw up a phased shut down of all US assets serving on NATO or UN missions - planned redirecting of NATO costs into border infrastructure that includes PH resources and Red Cross type features ....while still including military security teams

 

[The-Hack]

George Freaking Soros
A real live Nazi sympathizer

There’s our champion - come ON, HackAShaq

A “lightning rod” drop of a name.

How old was he when NATO was formed?

Guy must be 120 years old to have caused all this!!

 

[CastleRubric]

Preparing to defend our allies has worked very well.

It kept the Soviets out of Western Europe and has prevented war in between the great powers of Western Europe (France, the U.K., Germany) for the longest successive period since, what, the first millennium AD.

A pretty good record.

Are you seriously proposing isolationism? That failed after just 18 years of experimentation, compared to 73 years of success with NATO.

No - you’ve got some apples in one hand - and shiny oranges in the other, Hacksaw Ridge

Deploying into new regions when you KNOW you’re provoking Russia - isn’t a plan

it’s not the same as standing defensively with Germany - for example - and not allowing the Communists to invade via East Germany

And it’s moot anyway i guess - Russia isn’t threatening Poland that i can see

You know who HAS been recently threatening Poland?

The EU