Russia - Ukraine WAR Warning: Political Discussions

[hmt5000]

Diminishing Russia is NATO's "defensive" strategy.

Always was.

I think it will work, but it could just easily backfire against us. Their next ruler might just be worse.

It would have been far wiser to follow Trump's foreign policy, which recognized that while they do not share our Western values, they do share our European cultural ones, and just left them alone, used them in the war on radical Islam. Now, they will be forced into China's hands for the coming new cold war between the West (Asian Tigers too) and China.



ok

Well, what could really diminish us is if China, India, Pakistan, OPEC, South America, Africa and most of the rest of Asia decide they are tired of our regime change politics at the whim of the state dept. We just tried to remove the president of Pakistan. At a time we don't have a lot of friends in the middle east we just put Pakistan in the neutral category with a lean to China. Turkey is staying neutral because we tried to back a military coup against Erdogan. We tried to out Assad and we killed Sadam (who worked for us) and Khaddafi (who started to work with us). People are realizing our state dept isn't loyal to anyone but their own interest. Iran is Iran because we overthrew their government. Egypt almost went muslim brotherhood because of us but luckily their military stepped in and stopped it. South America has been in turmoil mostly due to CIA and geopolitics of our government and corporations.

Broke starving countries don't project power. The US and Europe are slitting our own throats. Germany voted to close 3 more nuclear reactors while stopping all Russian oil imports. The President of BASF told the government they'd probably go out of business if they went through with it and they voted overwhelmingly to go through with it. Biden is promising to send more nat gas to Europe but he won't increase our production. They want Canada to increase imports to the US but they won't finish the pipeline.... These aren't serious people. They live in fantasy land.

 

[Bill Derington]

What are they supposed to do with them?

The only real evidence of a war crime were in that video posted. Which just happened to be videoed just before the west started ratcheting up their war crime argument.

Maybe the Russians did commit war crimes, but the only people that has seen the evidence are the same group that we just saw commit a war crime.

There’s also the testimony from Ukrainians that their own military was killing citizens.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Like I said before they are both “Ivan” two peas in a pod and zelensky with his wish to emulate Israel has gone off the rails

What's ya'lls problem with emulating Israel?

 

[jameslee32]

 

[hmt5000]

Oh bugger. Let the mental gymnastics begin.

Zelenskyy Says Post-war Ukraine Will Emulate Israel, Won’t Be ‘Liberal, European’​

Soldiers in 'cinemas, supermarkets, and people with weapons' is Ukraine's future, Zelenskyy tells reporters, as the country's leaders begin to imagine what a precariously post-war Ukraine might look like

Ukraine will become a “‘big Israel' with its own face,” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy declared on Tuesday, indicating that his country intends to emulate the Israeli security state in the wake of Russia’s invasion.


“Ukraine will definitely not be what we wanted it to be from the beginning. It is impossible. Absolutely liberal, European – it will not be like that. It [Ukraine] will definitely come from the strength of every house, every building, every person,” Zelenskyy told members of the Ukrainian media during a briefing.

View embedded media

HMMM. A nationalistic country with fierce military focused society based on a strong leader with some private ownership of co's that follow the governments orders... Where have we seen that in history?

 

[hmt5000]

Zelenskyy: blah, blah, blah. Guaranteed his speech writer works in the US State Department

If you listen to him he changes the speech for each audience. He isn't selling the same Ukraine to any country.

 

[Bill Derington]

View embedded media

So, it passed, now what? It’s a meaningless vote, the United States isn’t going to investigate war crimes in Ukraine.
If you think anyone in Russia is going to The Hague you’re nuts. They won, the agreement was made a couple of weeks ago when they started withdrawing from the Kyiv area.

 

[jameslee32]

So what? Mueller/Rosenstein indicted several Russians as well.

Those are some very familiar names fwiw. Stop the Steal in Ukraine huh?

 

[CastleRubric]

The only real evidence of a war crime were in that video posted. Which just happened to be videoed just before the west started ratcheting up their war crime argument.

Maybe the Russians did commit war crimes, but the only people that has seen the evidence are the same group that we just saw commit a war crime.

There’s also the testimony from Ukrainians that their own military was killing citizens.

Food for thought (tastes like chicken!!!!)

When the Yugoslavian conflict emerged in the 90s — there was a fair amount of media spotlighting war crimes and atrocities — largely focused on the Serbs as i recall

Around that same timeframe of 98-99 the International Criminal Court was just starting to function & was touted as the logical and most effective and just way of addressing war crimes from that conflict

I’m fully expecting some type of similar push here with the expanding conflict in Ukraine

Unless the conflict suddenly takes an intense turn for the worst & it becomes impossible for external entities and correspondents to gain access and establish safe zones — we should be seeing the ICC and maybe other Int’l NGOs highlighted and lauded as critical components for peace and safety

 

[hmt5000]

I hear ya, "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"

Dollars to doughnuts the vast majority of the posters here weren't even aware that there's already been a war going on in Ukraine before Putin invaded.

I started looking into Ukraine during the "Trump Russia collusion" hoax. That was when I learned about Kolomoisky and what he was doing in the Donbas. He got fired from Governor because he was sending in violent mercenaries and just killing the hell out of civilians... The Ukraine government fired him because he went too far. He ended up having to leave because the UKraine government was going to indict him. There was a reason the 2 provinces wanted to leave Ukraine.

So he backed a young actor/comedian to run for president... and dude won. Now we are supposed to pretend Kolomoisky wasn't behind Zelensky and that Kolomoisky isn't an internationally known criminal wanted in several countries and currently banned from entering the US.

We have a narrative we are being sold and you have to accept it or you are a Putin Puppet. I really wish a mainstream journalist would do a deep dive into Kolomoisky so they could see why I'm so opposed to getting involved in this mess. He's as bad as Pablo Escobar ever was. Violent and ruthless. His nickname in Ukraine is "evil Santa Clause". That's who is pulling the strings for Zelensky.

 

[The-Hack]

& it becomes impossible for external entities and correspondents to gain access and establish safe zones

Things are so quiet in northern Ukraine that some foreign governments are re-opening embassies in Kiev, the same northern region containing Butcha. Two weeks should be sufficient time to gather evidence, there.

 

[Bill Derington]

Food for thought (tastes like chicken!!!!)

When the Yugoslavian conflict emerged in the 90s — there was a fair amount of media spotlighting war crimes and atrocities — largely focused on the Serbs as i recall

Around that same timeframe of 98-99 the International Criminal Court was just starting to function & was touted as the logical and most effective and just way of addressing war crimes from that conflict

I’m fully expecting some type of similar push here with the expanding conflict in Ukraine

Unless the conflict suddenly takes an intense turn for the worst & it becomes impossible for external entities and correspondents to gain access and establish safe zones — we should be seeing the ICC and maybe other Int’l NGOs highlighted and lauded as critical components for peace and safety

What expanding conflict? It isn’t expanding, it’s contracting.

There’s a common thread on who gets punished for war crimes, the losers who no longer have a military.

 

[hmt5000]

View embedded media

Russia asked the UN to investigate it and the UK voted to block it... the US did not override that veto. So no investigation into a war crime. We just have to accept what "they" said and not actually ask questions.

 

[CastleRubric]

What expanding conflict? It isn’t expanding, it’s contracting.

There’s a common thread on who gets punished for war crimes, the losers who no longer have a military.

ah - i stand corrected

honestly i haven’t looked at Ukraine related updates in maybe 2 weeks

i remember Russia citing that phase 1 was completed and they’d started whatever phase 2 was going to be

so it’s calming down?
that’s great - i need to sprawl out and take in some updates before bed tonight then

thanks for the comment etc

i’m pouring a woodford on ice - i swear i’d pour you one too if you were here

i especially need to catch up on some of the economic sanctions and lockouts that were being employed here - caught a headline or two but didn’t fully grasp the gist

 

[CastleRubric]

Russia asked the UN to investigate it and the UK voted to block it... the US did not override that veto. So no investigation into a war crime. We just have to accept what "they" said and not actually ask questions.

Sounds like UNC investigating itself for program infractions , right?

 

[hmt5000]

https://www.kyivpost.com/?s=kolomoisky

Kyiv post stories on Kolomoisky. So this isn't biased against him. These are stories written by journalist in Kyin that fear for their lives writing a story against him.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

So you haven't seen the video of Ukrainian troops with Russian prisoners? Its against the law to embarrass or intimidate a prisoner publicly. They also called the parents of dead soldiers on their phones and told their parents that they left their bodies in a street for dogs to eat... And technically he did invade another country. The 2 break away provinces wanted out and voted to leave. Zelensky kept them by killing people. Zelensky is a multimillionaire now too. President pays well... And Putin is worse but Zelensky is no saint.

Wait, by that twisted logic, if Mexicans in Arizona and New Mexico wanted out and voted to leave, you think we'd let them? Would you like to rethink that one?

 

[hmt5000]

Wait, by that twisted logic, if Mexicans in Arizona and New Mexico wanted out and voted to leave, you think we'd let them? Would you like to rethink that one?

So by your logic. If they voted to leave I could go down and kill the hell out of them? Could I fire rockets into police stations and homes? This wasn't Ukrainian army. These were mercenaries working for oligarchs. So technically you should flip your question around. What if Mexicans wanted to leave Mexico because it was a corrupt narco state?.. and then the cartels killed a bunch politicians, policemen, city leaders and businessmen? Would you be opposed to a couple Mexican provinces wanting to leave Mexico to free of the corruption of the cartels?

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

left wing twitter suspended a former military marine intelligence and United Nations weapons inspector.

Ritter, so, yeah..

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

So by your logic. If they voted to leave I could go down and kill the hell out of them? Could I fire rockets into police stations and homes? This wasn't Ukrainian army. These were mercenaries working for oligarchs. So technically you should flip your question around. What if Mexicans wanted to leave Mexico because it was a corrupt narco state?.. and then the cartels killed a bunch politicians, policemen, city leaders and businessmen? Would you be opposed to a couple Mexican provinces wanting to leave Mexico to free of the corruption of the cartels?

Once they take arms and try to secede thru violence? You sure as hell better.

 

[hmt5000]

Once they take arms and try to secede thru violence? You sure as hell better.

So you would back the drug cartels against innocent civilians because "that's who's in charge"? And people wonder how Hitler got power so quickly.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Once they take arms and try to secede thru violence? You sure as hell better.

You're comparing Azov with Mexican drug cartels. Come on man. You and your buddies have been harping about Ukraine attacking its own citizens in the break away states. Which is it, Ukraine or Azov?

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

So you would back the drug cartels against innocent civilians because "that's who's in charge"? And people wonder how Hitler got power so quickly.

Thats your twisted and erroneous analogy, not mine.

 

[hmt5000]

Thats your twisted and erroneous analogy, not mine.

Your original scenario was backwards though. You are ignoring how corrupt Ukraine is. An area voted for a guy that won the presidency and then a bunch of Oligarchs with merc armies and the US state dept came in and overthrew the government. You don't think you'd want to leave that scenario? Are you being serious or just trolling me?

And Im not going to argue facts you don't know. Stuff you don't know could fill the grand canyon. Ukraine is a corrupt state. People wanted to keep their homes but leave the corrupt government. You may not like their choice but I bet you were OK with the colonist declaring independence against the King right?... or hell, you probably didn't. You would probably still like to be bowing.

 

[The-Hack]

An area voted for a guy that won the presidency and then a bunch of Oligarchs with merc armies and the US state dept came in and overthrew the government.

I have no doubt the US helped/encouraged THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS who protested the Russian-backed leader who fled during the Maiden Revolution, but I’m sure the Russians/Europeans and others were also involved supporting their own interests.

Saying the US State Department overthrew the man is a vast over-simplification.

It was telling where he fled to, once he left office.

 

[The-Hack]

followed up a little on the hypersonic tests

Another successful test in March:

 

[Hank Camacho]

Another successful test in March:

View embedded media

Good. We are perilously close to losing technological supremacy to China when it comes to the military. The Chinese can't compete with our navy but hypersonics that aren't nuclear are a complete game changer.

Right now is the time for America to beef up on defense spending. War is changing fast.

If Russia invaded Ukraine even five years ago, when drones were much less capable and ubiquitous, it is much more probable that Russia could have pulled off the lightning fast decapitation of the Ukraine government that they envisioned. Now those tanks are not nearly as big an advantage when the other side can see them coming from miles away and lay precision ambushes with high quality anti-tank missiles and attack from the sky with suicide drones.

Drones may have already made the concept of air superiority a thing of the past. Now for relatively low sums of money, smaller countries or groups can purchase large amounts of drones to swarm small areas and create a surveillance net with attack capabilities. The Mexican cartels have already started conducting their own drone strikes, for instance.

Video captures alleged drug cartel drone bombing rivals

Video footage shows a drone allegedly flown by a notoriously violent Mexican drug cartel dropping bombs on apparent rivals in a forest camp.

dronedj.com

 

[rqarnold]

So, it passed, now what? It’s a meaningless vote, the United States isn’t going to investigate war crimes in Ukraine.
If you think anyone in Russia is going to The Hague you’re nuts. They won, the agreement was made a couple of weeks ago when they started withdrawing from the Kyiv area.

Bill, Bill, Bill…smh. You’re right about one thing there…the US isn’t going to investigate war crimes. That’s because there is an international court that does those things.
Good to know there are a few “Americans” here siding with Russia and slurping the Russian propaganda. Congrats comrade. Putin’s efforts haven’t been totally ineffective.

 

[warrior-cat]

View embedded media

Perhaps they are worried about what we should be investigating back home. We need not worry about what is going on abroad right now when we have so much corruption and problems in our own house plus the invasion happening on our own border.

 

[warrior-cat]

Bill, Bill, Bill…smh. You’re right about one thing there…the US isn’t going to investigate war crimes. That’s because there is an international court that does those things.
Good to know there are a few “Americans” here siding with Russia and slurping the Russian propaganda. Congrats comrade. Putin’s efforts haven’t been totally ineffective.

Moronic take. You liberals are so dramatic and ridiculous that if a take is not the one you have people must be siding with Russia. Read post above to understand what we should be doing.

 

[Warrior Poet31]

https://www.kyivpost.com/?s=kolomoisky

Kyiv post stories on Kolomoisky. So this isn't biased against him. These are stories written by journalist in Kyin that fear for their lives writing a story against him.

Kolomoisky, Soros, Schwab, Gates, Zuckerberg are basically real life Bond villians.

 

[Warrior Poet31]

🧵

 

[Warrior Poet31]

If you try to correct the narrative there will be consequences.

 

[Fact_Checker]

False. The fact that you and he believe this only proves that if you did have a formal education, it did not take or it was more in line with basket weaving 101 than actual world knowledge.

Yes my dual degree in Economics and Mathematics is definitely basket weaving 101. The only thing going for you is that you are good at name calling. Congratulations!!! You're the best at an ugly rude behavior. I don't mind your conservative opinions, but your attitude is everything that is wrong with America today. You and people like you on the left and the right are the biggest problem we face because if we gave you and your contraparts on the left power you would destroy the rest of our freedoms. We just want to work, play, and enjoy the life we are able to provide for ourselves. Quit calling us names and telling us how to think.

 

[Fact_Checker]

Thanks.

Could you explain what represents, "The conservative turn towards authoritarianism in the US"? Covid masks? Covid shot requirements? Higher taxes? Just what do you mean? Thanks.

Donald J Trump is what I mean. Don't nominate him again if you want people to take conservatism seriously. He is a mini tyrant in the making. Yes he got a lot of good things done but push come to shove he didn't respect the number one priority in America, that this country is a Democracy. If our votes don't count the rest of the shit doesn't matter. Not to say there aren't authoritarian figures on the left, but they have been relegated to Congress mostly. The right is electing these people to President and the Senate and the House as well.

 

[rqarnold]

Good. We are perilously close to losing technological supremacy to China when it comes to the military. The Chinese can't compete with our navy but hypersonics that aren't nuclear are a complete game changer.

Right now is the time for America to beef up on defense spending. War is changing fast.

If Russia invaded Ukraine even five years ago, when drones were much less capable and ubiquitous, it is much more probable that Russia could have pulled off the lightning fast decapitation of the Ukraine government that they envisioned. Now those tanks are not nearly as big an advantage when the other side can see them coming from miles away and lay precision ambushes with high quality anti-tank missiles and attack from the sky with suicide drones.

Drones may have already made the concept of air superiority a thing of the past. Now for relatively low sums of money, smaller countries or groups can purchase large amounts of drones to swarm small areas and create a surveillance net with attack capabilities. The Mexican cartels have already started conducting their own drone strikes, for instance.

Video captures alleged drug cartel drone bombing rivals

Video footage shows a drone allegedly flown by a notoriously violent Mexican drug cartel dropping bombs on apparent rivals in a forest camp.

dronedj.com

Beef up on defense spending? We spend more than the next dozen largest militaries combined. Perhaps a reallocation of spending is in line but spending more and more is just stupid.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

If you try to correct the narrative there will be consequences.

Ritter is an idiot.

 

[Warrior Poet31]

Ritter is an idiot.

You would know.

 

[rqarnold]

If you try to correct the narrative there will be consequences.

You’re under the impression that Ritter somehow knows the correct narrative. He doesn’t. His past access to intelligence is just that, past. Once he left his job as an intel officer that flow of info ceased. He writes for RT, his “info” is that fed to him via Russian sources. Somehow you seem to think or trust that those sources are more accurate than western sources. Upon what is that thought/trust based?

 

[rqarnold]

You would know.

And you obviously don’t.