Anybody that questions the validity of guilt at this point isn't worth arguing with. The debate now is only how can the NCAA and SACS can get away unscathed with doing nothing. The NCAA has jumped in bed with the cheaters and SACS has shown itself to be a paper tiger with no claws.
Roy Tells Killeya-Jones 100% Certain NCAA Will Not Punish UNC
- Thread starter Smashcat
- Start date
The UNC case is the tip of a nationwide college athletics iceberg. Why not cut the bull**** and talk about what's gone on for decades in college sports. It's a jacked up mirage of an idea that revenue sports and academic institutions marry in perfect harmony. If you think UNC is an appalling anomaly, we're done here. Some kids thrive as actual student athletes but college sports has been a game of pretending for a long, long time.
[QUOTE="WildWestHeel, post: 1922946, member: 20595"]The only accusation you can hurl at Roy based on actual findings is that he was naïve. He has said thousands of times over he has never micromanaged kids' classes, at UNC or KU. He actually trusted the system during a faculty driven academic scandal. He has a 40 year track record of treating everyone with class and doing things the right way.
And the venom spouted both here and with Dook fans to literally destroy him and his reputation is remarkable. You believe what you want to believe.
UNC fans despise Calipari because they feel better by believing he's a cheater and a sleeze to the core, when facts and history largely absolve him. Is it even possible for diehard fans to hold off judgement and focus on facts?
To paint a picture of Roy as a man of corruption & exploiter is easy to do when you don't know him. It just takes some rival groupthink. If actual facts arise tied to Roy directly re: the scandal, or anything else, I won't defend him. Joe Paterno is a reminder that no one is untouchable. But I'll never understand why any sports fan is hellbent on destroying a man's reputation when 99% don't know ****. That goes beyond just a sports rivalry. Guess 'innocent until proven guilty' just isn't as fun as venomous speculation.[/QUOTE]
When the news of the scandal first came out Roy said he was well aware of how every one of his players were performing academically because the coaches were in touch with them on a daily basis. After it became apparent that statement might implicate him in the cheating, Roy changed his story and claimed he didn't know what classes his players were taking. He later told Wainstein he instructed an assistant coach to get the players out of AFAM because he was concerned about the clustering. They then went from clustering in AFAM to clustering in Communications.
Roy brought Wayne Walden with him from Kansas and Walden's job was to keep track of the players' academics. Roy said Walden was the most ethical person he knew. Walden told Wainstein that he knew Crowder was setting up phony classes and grading papers for those classes. Emails show that Walden asked Crowder to get his players enrolled in the fake classes and that he provided her with tickets and other gifts in return.
If Roy was just naive and really didn't know about the cheating why did he give 3 versions of his knowledge about his players' academics? If he was concerned about clustering why did his players begin clustering in communications? Why did the person he hired to keep track of academics not tell him his platers were enrolled in phony classes? You might call Roy naive, but he sounds like a liar to me.
And the venom spouted both here and with Dook fans to literally destroy him and his reputation is remarkable. You believe what you want to believe.
UNC fans despise Calipari because they feel better by believing he's a cheater and a sleeze to the core, when facts and history largely absolve him. Is it even possible for diehard fans to hold off judgement and focus on facts?
To paint a picture of Roy as a man of corruption & exploiter is easy to do when you don't know him. It just takes some rival groupthink. If actual facts arise tied to Roy directly re: the scandal, or anything else, I won't defend him. Joe Paterno is a reminder that no one is untouchable. But I'll never understand why any sports fan is hellbent on destroying a man's reputation when 99% don't know ****. That goes beyond just a sports rivalry. Guess 'innocent until proven guilty' just isn't as fun as venomous speculation.[/QUOTE]
When the news of the scandal first came out Roy said he was well aware of how every one of his players were performing academically because the coaches were in touch with them on a daily basis. After it became apparent that statement might implicate him in the cheating, Roy changed his story and claimed he didn't know what classes his players were taking. He later told Wainstein he instructed an assistant coach to get the players out of AFAM because he was concerned about the clustering. They then went from clustering in AFAM to clustering in Communications.
Roy brought Wayne Walden with him from Kansas and Walden's job was to keep track of the players' academics. Roy said Walden was the most ethical person he knew. Walden told Wainstein that he knew Crowder was setting up phony classes and grading papers for those classes. Emails show that Walden asked Crowder to get his players enrolled in the fake classes and that he provided her with tickets and other gifts in return.
If Roy was just naive and really didn't know about the cheating why did he give 3 versions of his knowledge about his players' academics? If he was concerned about clustering why did his players begin clustering in communications? Why did the person he hired to keep track of academics not tell him his platers were enrolled in phony classes? You might call Roy naive, but he sounds like a liar to me.
That's not what heel fans were saying before you got caught.
Second favorite UNC tactic , everybody does it . This is not true and disingenuous on your part as you violate one of the very hurdles you placed on our condemnation of Roy . You have no proof that everybody does this , this is unique to UNC until otherwise proven that everyone is doing it . UNC didn't have easy classes , they had fraudulent fake classes and there is a large chasm between those two distinctions . UNC and its fans need remediation to correct their distorted values that has caused them to run afoul of the rules . At some point their fans need to accept what UNC has done and be part of a cultural change that rids them of the cancers within UNC .
If you read the Wainstein Report, you conclude that Faculty in AFAM initiated and drove the sham class system for 19 years. A handful of athletics staff used the classes to keep kids eligible and knew what Crowder was doing. Those staff are now gone. Other coaches and students all over campus simply heard the classes were easy--so kids signed up. Who wouldn't? Nothing from findings [so far] indicate this was primarily a coaches driven scheme. Not Roy, not his assistants.
If more facts arise pertaining to his involvement I'll acknowledge it. In the mean time I just see rampant fact Spinning with an agenda. You'll say "so are you." Nothing I've read or heard from Roy directly implies he's scum.
Innocent until proven guilty is implemented in the courts but applied broadly in society as a principle. It's how people arbitrate morality.
I view the larger college athletics debate as a broken system simply being taken advantage of by competing universities.
Is this going to be a once a week thing that some UNC*** fan trots over here to explain that everyone does it? Was everyone doing it when Miami, SMU, UK, Minnesota, Georgia got busted? UNC*** is the only one who uses this excuse.
UNC*** fans are being deliberately obtuse to believe their coach wasn't aware. He was awarded bonuses based off academic performance and his entire career is based off having his players on the floor not on the bench due to academic issues. UNC*** fans your University sold its academic reputation out for athletic glory. Below is an illustration of the long term cheating (over a 20 year period) at UNC*** from Pack Pride.
UNC*** fans are being deliberately obtuse to believe their coach wasn't aware. He was awarded bonuses based off academic performance and his entire career is based off having his players on the floor not on the bench due to academic issues. UNC*** fans your University sold its academic reputation out for athletic glory. Below is an illustration of the long term cheating (over a 20 year period) at UNC*** from Pack Pride.
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You want the bs you spout to be true because it will retain your stolen titles . You avoid anything you can't explain in favor of hiding behind junk parameters that you arbitrarily select such as innocent until proven guilty .
Innocent until proven guilty is designed to prevent innocent defendants from being incarcerated without proof but a side effect of this has been allowing guilty people go free because proof couldn't be found .
Unless you are naive enough to believe that if there is no hard evidence that people couldn't possibly have committed a crime . Many schools have been sanctioned with no actual proof , the NCAA just decided that it was likely to have happened and ruled accordingly . But in case you missed it the first time we are not under this burden and neither is the NCAA , Roy is either guilty or incompetent . Besides we don't need you to acknowledge a single thing for it to be true , you sound like bobby swerve who claims that if UNC doesn't say it then it's not true .
That narcissistic trait seems to pervade all levels of UNC worshippers , lol at you dictating what's going to be accepted as the truth . Again the classes weren't easy , THEY WERE FAKE , that statement by you after already being told that point demonstrates how you are a disingenuous liar just like UNC . You don't want the truth but prefer a spin , it's why we are enjoying your plight . Roy is dirty , UNC is complicit and guilty , you deserve the LOIC you got slapped with . That LOIC is a fact you can suck on , spin that .
I fully understand you being a heel fan how you buy into the bull that Roy spreads around. I am a wildcat fan and my opinion of Roy is he put KU on probation and when found guilty he will have UNCheat on probation. Never in the history of the game has one coach been dumb enough to not know what kind of grades his players were getting. Say what you will but if you buy that your just as ignorant as I believe you dad gum coach is. I have no, no respect for cheating and trying to lie out of it. I the NCAA lets UNCheat ride on this. It will be the downfall of college sports.....by the way UNCheat sucks.
"He knew!"
Knew what? That some classes were easy? Probably so!
He also knew he was a basketball coach and not a supervisor or overseer in the Academics dept. He actually trusted people were doing their job in academics! Clearly they weren't.
Knew what? That some classes were easy? Probably so!
He also knew he was a basketball coach and not a supervisor or overseer in the Academics dept. He actually trusted people were doing their job in academics! Clearly they weren't.
But Roy DOES know his kids are doing... He said so. They know everything about the education of their kids...
I mean... Before he said there is no way to know what all 13 of his kids are doing.
Roy is a POS.
To quote Dr Frazier Crane to Cliff, "What color is the sky in your world?"
Walden was the overseer of academics for the basketball program. Walden admitted to knowing about the fake classes. Roy is responsible for the actions of his assistants. Roy and the mens' basketball program are guilty of academic fraud.
You are an idiot. Those of us who played college sports at other universities actually took classes with ball players, studied with ball players, and watched them do work. A decades-long scandal to keep thousands of athletes eligible ISNT the way things go; it is, as the president of the Drake Group (a group that studies sports and academics and ethics, who ISNT a rival fan... Whoops!) said, 'the “largest and most nefarious” case of academic fraud in NCAA history...'
Went from "The Carolina Way" to "everybody does it" and "The worst you can accuse Roy of is not knowing about a scandal that was purely from the academic side, even though entire teams of basketball players were cheating and guys like Wayne Walden, who Roy said was the most important person in the program, were steering them into these classes and discussing how to avoid raising red flags by keeping regular non athletes in the classes too... Oh, and star players and employees have said it was a huge, sports centered conspiracy."
Conversation is over, I suppose. Stop with your lying, cheating bull.
Oh am I outnumbered here? ****.
I find this hostility rather unpleasant. Normally these places are hospitable and full of rational, humble, self aware people?
Posting on rival message boards is like an American showing up to an ISIS cocktail party. I get that.
Good talk.
I find this hostility rather unpleasant. Normally these places are hospitable and full of rational, humble, self aware people?
Posting on rival message boards is like an American showing up to an ISIS cocktail party. I get that.
Good talk.
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Actually, yes they did find UNC guilty of LOIC in relation to the academic fraud. It is now up to UNC to prove them wrong, which is impossible based on how the NCAA structured the NOA. Reading helps. You should try it.
*you're, not your
The classes were fake. That was established years ago. Also, Roy was responsible for Wayne Walden (strict liability), who was a member of the MBB coaching staff. Ignorance doesn't matter anymore. Keep dreaming, hole.
In your case, it is more like a member of ISIL showing up at a session of Congress to argue that ISIL is peaceful and has never broken any laws or hurt anyone.
For fun, I will repeat this in this thread.....some UNC fans have not seen it yet!
Seeing PJ in trouble again makes me appreciate Roy so much more. Unlike Cal, Roy recruits and continues to support kids who are troubled and need a free degree to survive in life.
For the most part, Cal and has recruited kids who go to class, stay out of trouble and go to the NBA in a year or two. Roy gives up his house to a former player booted off the team so he can do experimental work for a pharmaceutical company.
Roy continued to support a kid who associated with a known pharmaceutical drug rep, carried a gun to protect friends from terrorists, and test drove various cars for the National Transportation Safety Board to make sure the cars were safe when driven at 90+ MPH.
I hope Roy gets COY and CODecade for his wonderful work with troubled kids who need a father figure to help them realize their dreams of being drafted in the second round and playing in Europe.
Seeing PJ in trouble again makes me appreciate Roy so much more. Unlike Cal, Roy recruits and continues to support kids who are troubled and need a free degree to survive in life.
For the most part, Cal and has recruited kids who go to class, stay out of trouble and go to the NBA in a year or two. Roy gives up his house to a former player booted off the team so he can do experimental work for a pharmaceutical company.
Roy continued to support a kid who associated with a known pharmaceutical drug rep, carried a gun to protect friends from terrorists, and test drove various cars for the National Transportation Safety Board to make sure the cars were safe when driven at 90+ MPH.
I hope Roy gets COY and CODecade for his wonderful work with troubled kids who need a father figure to help them realize their dreams of being drafted in the second round and playing in Europe.
Was working at Diablo Canyon in 82 and at the time running water hadn't been installed in the building yet.
The site President and some bigwigs for PGE were taking a tour of the plant when they came upon a pipefitter taking a leak in one of the lower level rooms. Obviously too lazy to walk and go outside. There were many outhouses placed around the entire property so no one should ever find themselves in a "have to" situation.
He called security on the radio and told the guy to leave plant property immediately. As word spread several pipefitters decided they should walk out because this guy was being unfairly fired. Most people though, thought it was great that they caught someone in the act. Sucked to have to go somewhere and have it smell like the holding tank of a state fair outhouse.
The union rep went to talk to the pres and the pres said "I saw him with his dick in his hand, He was either pissing or jacking off, neither is acceptable on my nuclear plant floor".
Roy was either pissing or jacking off, neither is acceptable on the NCAA rulebook.
The site President and some bigwigs for PGE were taking a tour of the plant when they came upon a pipefitter taking a leak in one of the lower level rooms. Obviously too lazy to walk and go outside. There were many outhouses placed around the entire property so no one should ever find themselves in a "have to" situation.
He called security on the radio and told the guy to leave plant property immediately. As word spread several pipefitters decided they should walk out because this guy was being unfairly fired. Most people though, thought it was great that they caught someone in the act. Sucked to have to go somewhere and have it smell like the holding tank of a state fair outhouse.
The union rep went to talk to the pres and the pres said "I saw him with his dick in his hand, He was either pissing or jacking off, neither is acceptable on my nuclear plant floor".
Roy was either pissing or jacking off, neither is acceptable on the NCAA rulebook.
You should be banned since you are a fan of a cheater. A PROVEN cheater. That will do whatever means is necessary to compete. ( for BILLY L )
I don't have time to completely pick this post apart, but I'm reminded of a line from a movie, "your world is about to end". If the NCAA is fair and even handed, that line is getting every more relevant to the UNC travesty that was originally thought to be a basketball team.
You see, Roy has essentially confessed to lack of institutional control. The NCAA has them standing accused of LOIC. Roy has admitted such in that he doesn't "micromanage" academics, which is a euphemism for 'I don't know what the hell is going on'. Even a moron can put two and two together to see that Roy had no control over his program just like the NCAA has accused.
Now I expect that Roy will skate simply because he's a US citizen and the NCAA will be forced to suffer the expense of due process if "Moonpie" were to sue them. However, I will not be surprised if the NCAA has their way with UNC and makes Roy watch the process, not that the coward would care as long as nothing gets slopped on him. I think the thing that will ultimately come home to roost on UNC is the utter lack of contrition. UNC, Roy and the rabble fan base seems to concern themselves only with avoiding punishment.
I will leave you to contemplate the implications of the last sentence of the second paragraph. I believe you will find it particularly relevant.
We've found having to play with cheating scum such as UNC rather unpleasant as well.
Yeah, at least you are still posting here. Do you think you would still be posting on your board if the roles were reversed? Now, GO HOME...
you don't bring your own student academic adviser from Kansas with you and claim that you're naive.
Roy understands plausible deniability better than anyone else. He chose not to know what was going on but you damn well better believe it wasn't because he is naive. His "ignorance" is a calculated and an intentional move.
Roy is as culpable as any academic adviser or rogue faculty member - because he intentionally created a barrier between him and his players when it came to ensuring academic eligibility. Roy's just came in on a turnip truck demeanor belies the man who knew how to seamlessly step in and take advantage of the dirtiest academic program in the history of college basketball.
He's slick and he used Carolina willingness to cheat to the fullest advantage he could gain - and still made sure he would walk away a survivor.
Roy understands plausible deniability better than anyone else. He chose not to know what was going on but you damn well better believe it wasn't because he is naive. His "ignorance" is a calculated and an intentional move.
Roy is as culpable as any academic adviser or rogue faculty member - because he intentionally created a barrier between him and his players when it came to ensuring academic eligibility. Roy's just came in on a turnip truck demeanor belies the man who knew how to seamlessly step in and take advantage of the dirtiest academic program in the history of college basketball.
He's slick and he used Carolina willingness to cheat to the fullest advantage he could gain - and still made sure he would walk away a survivor.
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anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y
Guest
You really want to side with Rashad McCants? There's a reason he wouldn't talk to the NCAA...and the rest of the '05 roster defended Roy...and McCants couldn't stay on an NBA roster...
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anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y
Guest
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...ll-star-rashad-mccants-says-took-sham-classes
A second copy of his transcript obtained from a different source by "Outside the Lines" is identical to the first and is also not signed by the registrar but does not contain the label "unofficial."
A copy of McCants' university transcript, labeled "unofficial" and obtained by "Outside the Lines," shows that in his non-African-American Studies classes, McCants received six C's, one D and three F's. In his African-American Studies classes, 10 of his grades were A's, six B's, one a C and one a D. The UNC registrar's office declined to send McCants an official, signed transcript because of a May 2005 hold on its release. According to the UNC athletic department, McCants had university property that had never been returned.
A second copy of his transcript obtained from a different source by "Outside the Lines" is identical to the first and is also not signed by the registrar but does not contain the label "unofficial."
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anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y
Guest
@WildWestHeel has turned tail and ran away when presented with factual information refuting his claims. Typical Tar Heel coward.
The rest of the '05 roster were AFAM majors.
![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
The rest of the '05 roster were AFAM majors.
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
![[banana]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/1682178.gif "banana [banana]")
The tarheel saga has to be the most entertaining scandal in history. Watching the UNC fans trying to explain it or justify it is comedic gold. UNC fans are the court jesters of the internet right now!
I haven't paid much attention to any of this UNC stuff, so I am probably oversimplifying things when I look at it this way, but this is how I see it:
If Williams knew what was going on with his players and the fake classes, then shame on him for letting it happen.
If Williams did not know what was going on with his players and the fake classes, then shame on him for not knowing what his players were doing.
Either way, he is guilty of not doing his job. Pretty simple to me.
If Williams knew what was going on with his players and the fake classes, then shame on him for letting it happen.
If Williams did not know what was going on with his players and the fake classes, then shame on him for not knowing what his players were doing.
Either way, he is guilty of not doing his job. Pretty simple to me.
The rest of that 05 class still hasn't released their transcripts. I would love to see their grade point averages and calculate who would be eligible without AFAM, Boxill's philosophy classes, and that phony USN class.
