POLITICAL THREAD

[ukalum1988]

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I’ve been off this thread for a few days taking a break. Predictably my X feed has been clogged with tributes to Carter.

He served our country honorably in the Navy on a nuclear submarine after graduating from the Naval Academy. I respect him for his service to Habitat for Humanity.

Apart from that, Kurt’s tweet pretty much captures the essence of how I feel about Carter - generally decent for the most part but actually a poor President….. the worst of my lifetime until Biden came along.

 

[Bill Cosby]

The whole "indentured servant" argument is idiotic. Fist off, when did MAGA become an advocate for foreign worker rights? Second, H1Bs can leave their job and go to another one and transfer the H1B to another qualifying job. They are not slaves.

You’re misunderstanding if you think the H1B discussion is about protecting foreign workers. MAGA is Make America Great Again.

If H1Bs can freely transfer visas in such a way that they aren’t barred from changing jobs by law, administrative burden, time or other factors present in the process then I guess we have a different understanding of the practical limitations in place.

 

[Surewhatever]

Ai isn't taking too many programming jobs....yet. Any layoffs are mergers and acquisitions or just the company product flopped.

When i say their product flopping, i mean it never really developed a market. There is so much money in tech, vc firms will literally pump 100s of millions into an idea (you can get a few million funded for basically any functioning idea) to build it out to see if it has a market. That process happens over a few rounds and a few years. If the product flops, the company is done. If its just flat, then personnel are adjusted accordingly.

The best way i can describe tech is its like the gold rush except if the miners all had to be very smart and focused. The money is virtually unlimited but the labor is in short supply. The labor has huge leverage because they are so limited.

People should carefully monitor those on the right pushing this anti work visa nonsense. At best theyre talking about something they don't know. At worst they're trying to wedge off some important people directly responsible for trump winning. If its the latter - we should find out why.

That may be correct in some instances but the industry will lay older employees off who are high earners to replace them with H1Bs. They will also follow DEI to ensure the right people are hired that meet the correct criteria while paying them less since they do not have the skills or experience. They use DEI to adjust the percentages of who they employ to ensure they meet certain criteria even tying SLT bonuses to hiring success.

Most of these companies are still hiring while laying people off. They will jettison high performers instead of moving them to a new product. They used to move high performing employees to a new team but now they lay them off and hire cheaper labor.

 

[HymanKaplan]

Billy was the best "Carter"...

 

[sammysdad05]

If companies make a good faith effort to find an American to do a job, at market prices, I don’t think anyone would have an issue with that company going to the world talent pool and importing someone who would do the job on the same terms as an American.

Scamming the system and importing indentured servants far below what Americans would be paid is an issue.

And I have no tolerance for the tech companies who’ve pushed all he democrat woke bullshit nonsense now complaining that the American school system isn’t producing the talent they need.

Ironic that you guys spent the last 4 years shitting on colleges saying they’re too woke and don’t produce good students anymore (which was never true). Now you expect these companies to hire American students from schools you’ve been bashing? Which is it?

Of course none of the bashing you did was valid. Oh sure, I’ll bet there was a professor or 2 that did something stupid. And I didn’t like the dump protests over Palestine either. But I never shit on the schools like you guys did. We still pump out extremely bright kids. And I agree that the big companies here should be looking to hire inwards first also. Are you surprised companies are willing to hire cheaper labor from elsewhere though? All they care about is making money.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Blast from the past. By the way, I voted for President Reagan.

 

[BBUK]

Billy was the best "Carter"...

But, NOT his beer...

 

[BBUK]

Blast from the past. By the way, I voted for President Reagan.

I served under President Reagan.... Still an honor I will never forget...

 

[sammysdad05]

Greed and backend bonuses or direct purchases of pet items... The dough made is not needed to operate. Profits are okay... I have always been one to charge a reasonable price to make a reasonable profit, guess that is why I sold my business with a dozen employees about 20 years ago. I was too nice... I could have made a lot more. Did okay anyway but... if I had only got prices closer to what other businesses were charging, I would have been a lot better off but I am not complaining now in any event...

I told many of my customers; "I want to get rich but not just from what I charge you."

Interesting since “greed” is what I’ve been bashing grocery stores over since they jacked prices up during COVID, along with a ton of other industries. Wish they were all like you.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

If companies make a good faith effort to find an American to do a job, at market prices, I don’t think anyone would have an issue with that company going to the world talent pool and importing someone who would do the job on the same terms as an American.

Scamming the system and importing indentured servants far below what Americans would be paid is an issue.

This is th crux of the issue. Some ill informed or ill intended people on social media claims this happens but it doesn't at least not in tech which is the arena of discussion.

In medicine it does happen. Thats an area that deserves focus on this issue.

As @Dore95 pointed out, unskilled labor comes here on another visa. Those definitely deserve scrutiny as they do drive down wages too.

Couldn't you use the same logic to call hospital residents "slave labor" too?

I generally agree with what you are saying about the H1b issue though - there is a ton of misinformation on X about H1bs - literally lists of low paying positions/jobs, claiming that those are H1bs when they are H2bs (seasonal workers). As for H2bs, if the anti-immigrant types want to go after a work visa, it should be that one. These are low paying jobs (agricultural, working in hotels, resorts, etc.) that Americans could theoretically be doing. I'm not sure why there is such anger about H1bs.

You could. Imo the difference is students really need to face the rigors of the job to see if they can indeed physically and emotionally perform. By contrast foreign drs coming here already did that. This additional work requirement is imposed on them anyway.

You can pinpoint their immigration status as the sole difference because an American graduating from a foreign medical school has some additional scrutiny iirc but nothing like what force foreign drs through.

 

[BBUK]

Whoa...the thread went all educated and stuff... Whoa...

 

[Dore95]

If H1Bs can freely transfer visas in such a way that they aren’t barred from changing jobs by law, administrative burden, time or other factors present in the process then I guess we have a different understanding of the practical limitations in place.

They can freely change jobs if the new employer files an H1b petition for them. The only situation where the H1B worker is tied to their current employer is if that current employer is currently sponsoring them for a Green Card. That can't be transferred.

 

[Surewhatever]

Greed and backend bonuses or direct purchases of pet items... The dough made is not needed to operate. Profits are okay... I have always been one to charge a reasonable price to make a reasonable profit, guess that is why I sold my business with a dozen employees about 20 years ago. I was too nice... I could have made a lot more. Did okay anyway but... if I had only got prices closer to what other businesses were charging, I would have been a lot better off but I am not complaining now in any event...

I told many of my customers; "I want to get rich but not just from what I charge you."

I have zero problem with profits but the tech industry is being handled the same as the manufacturing industries were handled. They will do anything to reduce the cost of labor. Offshoring or in-shoring which costs Americans jobs and will reduce the overall quality of life in the states.'

 

[Surewhatever]

They can freely change jobs if the new employer files an H1b petition for them. The only situation where the H1B worker is tied to their current employer is if that current employer is currently sponsoring them for a Green Card. That can't be transferred.

Most of my friends find that process to be a risk. The new employer could change their mind about hiring them and then back to their country of origin they go. Budgets can change and jobs disappear. Hiring managers terminated and the new hiring manager could want someone else for the job.

 

[cole854]

The whole "indentured servant" argument is idiotic. Fist off, when did MAGA become an advocate for foreign worker rights? Second, H1Bs can leave their job and go to another one and transfer the H1B to another qualifying job. They are not slaves.

You are confusing "foreign worker" and "illegal".

 

[BBUK]

Most of my friends find that process to be a risk. The new employer could change their mind about hiring them and then back to their country of origin they go. Budgets can change and jobs disappear. Hiring managers terminated and the new hiring manager could want someone else for the job.

Where I see businesses or business processes fail are not accounting for the backend costs of the intended outcomes.

 

[Dore95]

You are confusing "foreign worker" and "illegal".

I thought we were talking about H1B visa holders. Not illegals.

 

[blubo]

😂
good lord

 

[Surewhatever]

Where I see businesses or business processes fail are not accounting for the backend costs of the intended outcomes.

For companies with more money than Midas they tend to overlook much of that until a bean counter or a member of senior leadership sees something that will impact the stock price or their bonus.

 

[BBUK]

For companies with more money than Midas they tend to overlook much of that until a bean counter or a member of senior leadership sees something that will impact the stock price or their bonus.

Yeah, I shied away from involving myself with that type. Stayed in my own low-class indefinitely (Stole a little of that from Rooster Cogburn.)

 

[AustinTXCat]

I served under President Reagan.... Still an honor I will never forget...

< - - Reagan -> Bush HW -> Clinton -> Bush W.

Reagan was best.

 

[HeismaNole]

Posted this in GYERO, but in the Christmas spirit, I'm bringing it here as well. To spread the joy.


tangent to the When Does Christmas End thread:

For my next door neighbor, a man in his mid/late 60's, it ended yesterday.

Last night, 3 cop cars showed up. Turns out that his "girlfriend" (whom he met at the RED MILE 🤣 🤣) took a dislike to something or other. And then she "took" a ball peen hammer to: his 70 inch flat screen, half the kitchen cabinets, a couple of windows, tiled shower etc.

She was escorted from the premises, and now there is a huge pile of crap, which I'm assuming are her belongings, on his front porch.

No word on how the Christmas tree fared.

Riding the crazy train can be fun but eventually you’re going to suffer the consequences.

Their names are usually like Kristie or Tammy.

 

[ukalum1988]

Billy was the best "Carter"...

Did you ever drink “Billy” beer?

 

[BBUK]

Did you ever drink “Billy” beer?

Regurgitated Falstaff

 

[BBUK]

HAHA,

Please explain the nuisances of..... Information Fusion... It's the rage it seems now...

 

[sambowieshin]

Poor kids went home hungry bc they didn't get enough to eat, with her program, and for many thats the only meal they get.

It's amazing you'll believe literally anything that's put on paper regardless of how it works in reality

Nobody went home hungry. 😂😂😂😂😂
I was working in schools back then. There was plenty of fat filled food to go along with the additional healthy sides.
Brainwashed.

 

[sambowieshin]

You clueless dolt. This right here speaks volumes about her ignorance: This motivated her to take on childhood obesity. She set her sights on schools because “the most important place to start tackling this issue is in our schools.”

You can try to educate in the schools, but the actions and the discipline starts in the home. Slapping some fruits and veggies on a plate for what may be the only meal some get doesn't even sniff the obesity issue. You think these kids aren't heading to the nearest 7/11 for some twinkies after school?

Your ignorance never ceases to amaze.

Yeah.... Just terrible exposing kids to some fresh fruits and vegetables that their families can't afford or have access to in poorer neighborhoods without full grocery stores.
But now we suddenly care about nutrition and healthy foods. 🤡🤡🤡🤡
Idiots

 

[Bill Cosby]

Ironic that you guys spent the last 4 years shitting on colleges saying they’re too woke and don’t produce good students anymore (which was never true). Now you expect these companies to hire American students from schools you’ve been bashing? Which is it?

Of course none of the bashing you did was valid. Oh sure, I’ll bet there was a professor or 2 that did something stupid. And I didn’t like the dump protests over Palestine either. But I never shit on the schools like you guys did. We still pump out extremely bright kids. And I agree that the big companies here should be looking to hire inwards first also. Are you surprised companies are willing to hire cheaper labor from elsewhere though? All they care about is making money.

That’s my point, you illiterate dumbass. Google, Facebook, Apple, etc. should be forced to choose from the talent pool they’ve helped destroy.

Or, if you think the American education system is pumping out enough qualified candidates, then clearly the H1B system is just about importing cheap labor.

Americans who are succeeding are doing it in spite of the failing school systems.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Sanity returns.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Seems like everyone is in agreement that US based companies should not be able to import cheap foreign workers if the domestic talent is available, though potentially more expensive.

This all feels like the democrat resistance to cleaning up voter roles or having voter ID. If you don’t think there’s an issue, and the processes are working to safeguard America, then why resist efforts to clean things up?

 

[sambowieshin]

His big one was his red tape regulations on capitalism. Another was him being in the pockets of China to force feed EV vehicles upon this country.

Your ignorance never ceases to amaze.

You're such an idiot. You regurgitate the words "communism" and "socialism" with no clue what the words actually mean.
Red tape regulations are not communism. It's government policies.
You may not like the policies....but it's not even close to communism. 🤣
Communism is when the government takes complete charge of factories, businesses and all means of production.
Please cite the source showing that Biden seized control of Ford Motor Company and took over production of all motor vehicles in America.
Are you even aware of the battery plants being built in Ky so we don't have to be dependent on China for our EVs?
Educate yourself about the true definition of communism before sounding like a chicken little alarmist. 🐣

 

[sambowieshin]

Seems like everyone is in agreement that US based companies should not be able to import cheap foreign workers if the domestic talent is available, though potentially more expensive.

This all feels like the democrat resistance to cleaning up voter roles or having voter ID. If you don’t think there’s an issue, and the processes are working to safeguard America, then why resist efforts to clean things up?

Since when in our history have immigrants not been the basis for entry level cheap manual or factory labor???
But you think that ends in 2025? Only if you wanna see our economy tank.
There aren't enough Americans to fill all those needed jobs and we are currently at a zero birth rate in this country.
Whether you tighty righties like it or not.... We need immigrants badly or this economy dies.

US Birthrate Reaches Historic Low, New CDC Data Reveal

The birth rate in the US continues its 17-year decline, with fertility levels now at their lowest in decades, according to CDC data.

www.ajmc.com

 

[Girthang]

Damn it Girthang haha. I saw another angle, defender does grab his wrist. Still looks funny though.

Saw it live and couldn't believe it.

Shouldn't have responded, I guess. Sorry it ruined the illusion. Looks like he's imitating a 1970s Chicago Bears QB from that angle

 

[Girthang]

If there should be any blowback on the h1b visas, it should be in the medical community. If you want to see a profession where greed used imports to drive down American wages, there you go.

Essentially most every hospital uses these for cheap er labor. Since the foreign md candidate has to do 2 years here (iirc) before they have a full license, they get stuck in the er working 80 hours a week for about 40k. If they are a specialist or higher, they get used as slave labor there too.

In that industry, the abuse of these visas absolutely do drive down us wages and they effectively created this shortage of doctors we now have. I say abuse caused it because this practice of low wage is supposed to be disallowed but apparently noone looks into it.

The problem explaining this to people is the lack of real education about how markets work. Real estate illustrates the lesson well, but few are taught how.

Chevy Chase in Lexington is a high end market. Homes there sell for phenomenally higher prices when compared to existing homes along Versailles Rd near Mason Headley. An appraiser CANNOT use a comparable sale from that area of Versailles Rd to estimate value on a property located on DeShay in Chevy Chase. It's an entirely different market.

What we have allowed the govt to do is bring in homes from a trailer park and put them on lots with the value of Chevy Chase lots. That's what "open markets" do, and it doesn't RAISE values for the double wide they brought in. It LOWERS values for the rest of the homes in the vicinity and eventually the entire subdivision as more mobile homes are added.

The point in MARKETS is that the products need to be produced in the market area and support the values of a market area, or it hurts the market. Competition WITHIN the market area is good. Competition from outside the market leads to an imbalance that destroys the market value in both wages and property value.

If the govt is not going to hang tariffs on goods imported from other markets with much lower wage scales and values, then they need to lower taxes and fees by the proportional difference in wages of those in the outside market, because the budget and the entire market is unsustainable otherwise, as this govt has well proven.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

That may be correct in some instances but the industry will lay older employees off who are high earners to replace them with H1Bs. They will also follow DEI to ensure the right people are hired that meet the correct criteria while paying them less since they do not have the skills or experience. They use DEI to adjust the percentages of who they employ to ensure they meet certain criteria even tying SLT bonuses to hiring success.

Most of these companies are still hiring while laying people off. They will jettison high performers instead of moving them to a new product. They used to move high performing employees to a new team but now they lay them off and hire cheaper labor.

There are no older workers. There are hardly any programmers that have gray hair, let alone aging.

The whole issue about h1b is some hypothetical nonsense from people with no knowledge of that industry and its uniqueness. Theyre just plain wrong.

The answer is to clean up our education system so there isnt a need to import talent.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Since when in our history have immigrants not been the basis for entry level cheap manual or factory labor???
But you think that ends in 2025? Only if you wanna see our economy tank.
There aren't enough Americans to fill all those needed jobs and we are currently at a zero birth rate in this country.
Whether you tighty righties like it or not.... We need immigrants badly or this economy dies.

US Birthrate Reaches Historic Low, New CDC Data Reveal

The birth rate in the US continues its 17-year decline, with fertility levels now at their lowest in decades, according to CDC data.

www.ajmc.com

As I said, you illiterate dunce, if Americans are available, cheap foreign labor shouldn’t be imported to do the jobs.

 

[BBUK]

The problem explaining this to people is the lack of real education about how markets work. Real estate illustrates the lesson well, but few are taught how.

Chevy Chase in Lexington is a high end market. Homes there sell for phenomenally higher prices when compared to existing homes along Versailles Rd near Mason Headley. An appraiser CANNOT use a comparable sale from that area of Versailles Rd to estimate value on a property located on DeShay in Chevy Chase. It's an entirely different market.

What we have allowed the govt to do is bring in homes from a trailer park and put them on lots with the value of Chevy Chase lots. That's what "open markets" do, and it doesn't RAISE values for the double wide they brought in. It LOWERS values for the rest of the homes in the vicinity and eventually the entire subdivision as more mobile homes are added.

The point in MARKETS is that the products need to be produced in the market area and support the values of a market area, or it hurts the market. Competition WITHIN the market area is good. Competition from outside the market leads to an imbalance that destroys the market value in both wages and property value.

If the govt is not going to hang tariffs on goods imported from other markets with much lower wage scales and values, then they need to lower taxes and fees by the proportional difference in wages of those in the outside market, because the budget and the entire market is unsustainable otherwise, as this govt has well proven.

Run for office! You get it!

 

[Surewhatever]

Since when in our history have immigrants not been the basis for entry level cheap manual or factory labor???
But you think that ends in 2025? Only if you wanna see our economy tank.
There aren't enough Americans to fill all those needed jobs and we are currently at a zero birth rate in this country.
Whether you tighty righties like it or not.... We need immigrants badly or this economy dies.

US Birthrate Reaches Historic Low, New CDC Data Reveal

The birth rate in the US continues its 17-year decline, with fertility levels now at their lowest in decades, according to CDC data.

www.ajmc.com

Ah yes, the democrat who is in favor of paying under the table and having people live with 20 in a two bed room apartment. Anything else you need to add Corporate Oligarch?

 

[Bill Cosby]

Bottom line, our border needs to be closed to illegal crossers. Illegal aliens need to be deported. Birthright citizenship needs to end.


We can talk about H1Bs later.

Spend the political capital on cutting taxes.

 

[HeismaNole]

Sanity returns.

It's amazing how much has changed from December 2016-December 2024.

I was watching Man in the Arena, that Tom Brady doc the other day and was reminded of how he didn't go to the White House for the Super Bowl celebration cause of fear of media with Trump. And how everything was just constant hysteria from the left.

All that has changed really is just fatigue of the left and seeing how much the Democrat Party sucks ass with the four years they just gave us. Trump didn't do anything. It's just what the left has done--- create chaos, kill the economy, flood your country with illegals and crime, try to imprison and murder their political opposition.