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POLITICAL THREAD

How will they rule ??!

  • YES - Qualified

    Votes: 41 82.0%

  • NO - Disqualified

    Votes: 9 18.0%
  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
If enemy combatants were using the hospital as a point of assault, then it was a legitimate military target. If not, then not. A factual dispute, and probably one that should be investigated independently (but that will never happen b/c security concerns re: intelligence), but should be interesting to see how it turns out. Even if it's not an international crime, there's still the question of whether it was the right call when balancing all the factors.

I wonder how high up the chain people have to go for authorization to strike a hospital being used by enemy combatants (assuming, for argument, that it was)? Regional commander? Theater commander? Some Spec Ops SCIF in Florida? Joint Chiefs? Someone else in the Pentagon? Political branch (Sec. Def. or President or Nat'l Security Advisor)?
 
KyFaninNC said:
Over 50 shootings in Chicago the last two weekends,where the gun laws are the most strict in the country. Yet you never hear Obama, or his lemmings EVER saying anything about that, but let one insane person do this and they are all over the TV wanting even more laws. Now, what if it turns out this loon was radicalized and this was a terror act? Will Obama say this is just workplace violence?

Putin has bitch slapped Obama and Kerry really hard this time, and neither of them have the balls to stand up to him. What a pathetic country we have now.
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First of all, you have no idea how many shootings would have occurred in Chicago without current gun laws.
Second, local gun laws do one thing...they give police additional charges they can bring when a gun crime occurs in the city. Because one only need to travel to the next county to circumvent said laws.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention publishes statistics on firearm deaths and the death rate, which would be a fairer measure in comparing states of various populations. The death rate is the number of deaths per 100,000 people. The CDC also gives age-adjusted death rates, since such rates are influenced by the age of the population. This levels the comparison between different groups.

For 2013, the 10 states with the highest firearm age-adjusted death rates were: Alaska (19.8), Louisiana (19.3), Mississippi (17.8), Alabama (17.6), Arkansas (16.8), Wyoming (16.7), Montana (16.7), Oklahoma (16.5), New Mexico (15.5) and Tennessee (15.4).

The 10 states with the lowest firearm age-adjusted death rates were, starting with the lowest: Hawaii (2.6), Massachusetts (3.1), New York (4.2), Connecticut (4.4), Rhode Island (5.3), New Jersey (5.7), New Hampshire (6.4), Minnesota (7.6), California (7.7) and Iowa (8.0).

As for Chicago, the Pew Research Center published a report in 2014 that found that while Chicago had seen a lot of murders in raw numbers, smaller cities had a higher rate, adjusted for population.
 
fuzz77 said:
First of all, you have no idea how many shootings would have occurred in Chicago without current gun laws.
Second, local gun laws do one thing...they give police additional charges they can bring when a gun crime occurs in the city. Because one only need to travel to the next county to circumvent said laws.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention publishes statistics on firearm deaths and the death rate, which would be a fairer measure in comparing states of various populations. The death rate is the number of deaths per 100,000 people. The CDC also gives age-adjusted death rates, since such rates are influenced by the age of the population. This levels the comparison between different groups.

For 2013, the 10 states with the highest firearm age-adjusted death rates were: Alaska (19.8), Louisiana (19.3), Mississippi (17.8), Alabama (17.6), Arkansas (16.8), Wyoming (16.7), Montana (16.7), Oklahoma (16.5), New Mexico (15.5) and Tennessee (15.4).

The 10 states with the lowest firearm age-adjusted death rates were, starting with the lowest: Hawaii (2.6), Massachusetts (3.1), New York (4.2), Connecticut (4.4), Rhode Island (5.3), New Jersey (5.7), New Hampshire (6.4), Minnesota (7.6), California (7.7) and Iowa (8.0).

As for Chicago, the Pew Research Center published a report in 2014 that found that while Chicago had seen a lot of murders in raw numbers, smaller cities had a higher rate, adjusted for population.
Click to expand...


Stats are stats. "Adjusting" them is a big tip that someone is trying to produce a different outcome.

I also like how you compare the entire state of Illinois gun death rate to other states, when we were discussing Chicago specifically.

Chicago still has an incredibly high rate of gun violence. 3rd in the nation. Even more, their gun violence increased 21% in their first half of this year according to this USA Today article. So much for "harsher gun laws" huh.
 
Obama wants to go to Oregon and the residents, city officials, sheriff does not want him there, nor do the victim's families. They do not want, nor need to hear a political speech from the most divisive POTUS in modern history. However. I doubt you read or hear about this from any of the MSM(Liberal) media.
 
bigblueinsanity said:
Stats are stats. "Adjusting" them is a big tip that someone is trying to produce a different outcome.

I also like how you compare the entire state of Illinois gun death rate to other states, when we were discussing Chicago specifically.

Chicago still has an incredibly high rate of gun violence. 3rd in the nation. Even more, their gun violence increased 21% in their first half of this year according to this USA Today article. So much for "harsher gun laws" huh.
Click to expand...
Yeah, because if we're comparing the number of murders in Chicago to say...Danville, that's a valid comparison. The fact that metro Chicago has more than twice the population of the entire state of Kentucky and is more populous than 40 of the 50 states.
 
fuzz77 said:
Yeah, because if we're comparing the number of murders in Chicago to say...Danville, that's a valid comparison. The fact that metro Chicago has more than twice the population of the entire state of Kentucky and is more populous than 40 of the 50 states.
Click to expand...

And? Bottom line: Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the US, and 3rd most gun violence despite the strict laws. Gun laws do not equal a reduction of gun violence. Its a fact.
 
Interesting, and unsurprising, read on Biden from Politico. Like everything else about the guy (hair plugs, veneers, tan, stories from back home) his being on the fence about running is manufactured. The guy is the poster child of the modern fake politician.

Joe Biden has been making his 2016 deliberations all about his late son since August.

Aug. 1, to be exact — the day renowned Hillary Clinton-critic Maureen Dowd published a column that marked a turning point in the presidential speculation.

Story Continued Below


According to multiple sources, it was Biden himself who talked to her, painting a tragic portrait of a dying son, Beau’s face partially paralyzed, sitting his father down and trying to make him promise to run for president because "the White House should not revert to the Clintons and that the country would be better off with Biden values.”

It was no coincidence that the preliminary pieces around a prospective campaign started moving right after that column. People read Dowd and started reaching out, those around the vice president would say by way of defensive explanation. He was just answering the phone and listening.

But in truth, Biden had effectively placed an ad in The New York Times, asking them to call.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/joe-biden-beau-2016-214459#ixzz3nnEY19DV
 
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bigblueinsanity said:
And? Bottom line: Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the US, and 3rd most gun violence despite the strict laws. Gun laws do not equal a reduction of gun violence. Its a fact.
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Nah, they are 4 times the per capita rate but no biggie...New Orleans and Detroit are worse so hush. After I read his drivel yesterday I saw an article about the large increase this year in Chicago. He actually infers Danville is more dangerous than south Chicago.
 
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bigblueinsanity said:
And? Bottom line: Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the US, and 3rd most gun violence despite the strict laws. Gun laws do not equal a reduction of gun violence. Its a fact.
Click to expand...

You can put all the tough gun laws into effect you want but when you are surrounded by states with more liberal laws it makes it simply to transport guns into Chicago's inner city. By comparison New York City passed strict gun laws and vastly reduced their gun death rate but neighboring states like Connecticut and New Jersey have tougher gun laws.
 
Are people actually arguing that the murders in Chicago, as an example, are carried out by people driving out the the suburbs and purchasing the guns legally?
 
qwesley said:
Interesting, and unsurprising, read on Biden from Politico. Like everything else about the guy (hair plugs, veneers, tan, stories from back home) his being on the fence about running is manufactured. The guy is the poster child of the modern fake politician.

Joe Biden has been making his 2016 deliberations all about his late son since August.

Aug. 1, to be exact — the day renowned Hillary Clinton-critic Maureen Dowd published a column that marked a turning point in the presidential speculation.

Story Continued Below


According to multiple sources, it was Biden himself who talked to her, painting a tragic portrait of a dying son, Beau’s face partially paralyzed, sitting his father down and trying to make him promise to run for president because "the White House should not revert to the Clintons and that the country would be better off with Biden values.”

It was no coincidence that the preliminary pieces around a prospective campaign started moving right after that column. People read Dowd and started reaching out, those around the vice president would say by way of defensive explanation. He was just answering the phone and listening.

But in truth, Biden had effectively placed an ad in The New York Times, asking them to call.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/joe-biden-beau-2016-214459#ixzz3nnEY19DV
Click to expand...
Give me a Carter or Obama any day - a politican with politics that make no sense, fail miserably and that I oppose instinctively. But are honestly held beliefs. As opposed to a Clinton or Biden, the kind of policitian that has more acceptable politics/policies - which makes sense as they have no real beliefs, all is focus group tested.

The absolute worst ever was John Edwards. The worst. Completely and utterly phony - even to the point of, well, whatever that story was that Kerry told about Edwards' tale of laying on his son's casket to make a point. I try to never make a judgment about anyone based on who they favor politically. But have to admit, when a co-worker told me he loved Edwards, I lost faith.......
 
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Deeeefense said:
You can put all the tough gun laws into effect you want but when you are surrounded by states with more liberal laws it makes it simply to transport guns into Chicago's inner city. By comparison New York City passed strict gun laws and vastly reduced their gun death rate but neighboring states like Connecticut and New Jersey have tougher gun laws.
Click to expand...

You just made my argument for me. No matter what laws are in place, people will find a way to get a gun if they want one. Its the person, not the inanimate object, thats to blame.

CUJO_1970 said:
I guess it is political agenda that prevents politicians from admitting it is not a gun problem, but a behavior problem?
Click to expand...

This is basically it. There are a handful of politicians that actually believe anything they say. The rest are just saying whatever they think will help their career.
 
I just think its funny that the White House would use Obamacare as an example of an Obama success/

8 to 9 million now have insurance that they can't afford to go to the doctor because they can't afford the insanely high deductible.

Yet, it's gonna solve gun violence though? that's gold.
 
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The design was very successful from a political perspective as Gruber laid out. Heavily market, backload penalties and taxes, have no way to truly account for the cost, and be out of office when the shit hits the fan. Rascals.

And he is going to do the same on carbon taxes and EPA rules. Take credit for "doing something" and allow the next person to deal with the pain.
 
Fantastic video about how conservatism is the new counter culture, which is hilarious because the left always pats themselves on the back and considers themselves "rebels."

 
qwesley said:
The design was very successful from a political perspective as Gruber laid out. Heavily market, backload penalties and taxes, have no way to truly account for the cost, and be out of office when the shit hits the fan. Rascals.

And he is going to do the same on carbon taxes and EPA rules. Take credit for "doing something" and allow the next person to deal with the pain.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I'd say. With poors being the population that got conned.

Perfect play. Give the idea that your helping the weakest population by making them worse off.
 
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Deeeefense said:
You can put all the tough gun laws into effect you want but when you are surrounded by states with more liberal laws it makes it simply to transport guns into Chicago's inner city. By comparison New York City passed strict gun laws and vastly reduced their gun death rate but neighboring states like Connecticut and New Jersey have tougher gun laws.
Click to expand...
So all of the strict laws in every state against hard drugs has really stopped people from getting/using them right? You are such a hardline homer. Continuously blaming someone or somewhere else for the problems that the left are responsible for.
 
bigblueinsanity said:
You just made my argument for me. No matter what laws are in place, people will find a way to get a gun if they want one. Its the person, not the inanimate object, thats to blame.
Click to expand...

The argument I'm making is an ad hoc approach to gun acquisition is weak, we need a comprehensive national approach that makes sense in order for it to be effective.
 
Willy4UK said:
Yeah, I'd say. With poors being the population that got conned.

Perfect play. Give the idea that your helping the weakest population by making them worse off.
Click to expand...

The poors had and still have Medicaid Willie. The working class - folks that earn a living but not enough to buy insurance are effected - but what did they have before ACA? nothing - everything was out of pocket.
At least now if a major health issue comes up they won't have to declare bankruptcy leave their home and live in a pup tent.
 
warrior-cat said:
So all of the strict laws in every state against hard drugs has really stopped people from getting/using them right? You are such a hardline homer. Continuously blaming someone or somewhere else for the problems that the left are responsible for.
Click to expand...

Whatever you are eating or smoking you should stop. You are obviously getting brain rot. Your posts don't even make sense any longer.
 
Deeeefense said:
The poors had and still have Medicaid Willie. The working class - folks that earn a living but not enough to buy insurance are effected - but what did they have before ACA? nothing - everything was out of pocket.
At least now if a major health issue comes up they won't have to declare bankruptcy leave their home and live in a pup tent.
Click to expand...
At a huge expense to many, many others.
Deeeefense said:
Whatever you are eating or smoking you should stop. You are obviously getting brain rot. Your posts don't even make sense any longer.
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For you I agree, it shows in your posting. Let me dumb it down for you. Drugs have been illegal for a long time. Drugs run rampant in our streets. Laws have not stopped the sale or use of drugs. Corruption has run rampant in our nation and there are many laws against it. It too has not been stopped, in fact, in has gotten worse. No more laws will help with the gun violence. Enforcement of current laws and making punishment fit the crime would go a long way. What we need is less people like you who seem to think big government is the fix. It is obvious to me now that you are either just too stupid to see what is going on or, you are just as corrupt as the people you support.
 
warrior-cat said:
At a huge expense to many, many others.

For you I agree, it shows in your posting. Let me dumb it down for you. Drugs have been illegal for a long time. Drugs run rampant in our streets. Laws have not stopped the sale or use of drugs. Corruption has run rampant in our nation and there are many laws against it. It too has not been stopped, in fact, in has gotten worse. No more laws will help with the gun violence. Enforcement of current laws and making punishment fit the crime would go a long way. What we need is less people like you who seem to think big government is the fix. It is obvious to me now that you are either just too stupid to see what is going on or, you are just as corrupt as the people you support.
Click to expand...

It has become virtually impossible for me to express an opinion, no matter how benign, without getting and idiotic and insulting response from you. It's obviously you aren't attacking the issue, you are attacking the poster.
Therefore I've decided to no longer be your target or waste my time attempt to reason and respond to your wacky opinions and insults.

Bye.:flush:
 
Deeeefense said:
The poors had and still have Medicaid Willie. The working class - folks that earn a living but not enough to buy insurance are effected - but what did they have before ACA? nothing - everything was out of pocket.
At least now if a major health issue comes up they won't have to declare bankruptcy leave their home and live in a pup tent.
Click to expand...

Poors don't have the money to pay the deductibles.

Doctor: "Good news you got cancer! Bad news, you can't afford the deductible. Do you have any friends or relatives that you could ask?"
 
And Deeee, who do I mean as poors? Anyone who can't afford Obamacare deductibles.
 
warrior-cat said:
For you I agree, it shows in your posting. Let me dumb it down for you. Drugs have been illegal for a long time. Drugs run rampant in our streets. Laws have not stopped the sale or use of drugs. Corruption has run rampant in our nation and there are many laws against it. It too has not been stopped, in fact, in has gotten worse. No more laws will help with the gun violence. Enforcement of current laws and making punishment fit the crime would go a long way. What we need is less people like you who seem to think big government is the fix. It is obvious to me now that you are either just too stupid to see what is going on or, you are just as corrupt as the people you support.
Click to expand...
I'm ok with stripped down gun laws, because if someone wants a gun they're gonna get one. So I hope you are implying there are too many drug laws, too, by the same reasoning. We don't need big government telling people they can't smoke a joint.
 
qwesley said:
:clap: Warrior

Catchaser?
Click to expand...
No, just a guy who is tired of the same ole shtick being run by Deee. His response is also the typical response from liberals, start losing a argument, just do not acknowledge the situation is there. His choice in leadership has been doing that since he has been in office.
 
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