Ho-hum another school shooting...

[UKRob 73]

The first major school shooting was Columbine, it happened during Clinton's assault weapons ban. California has had an extended magazines ban during all their school shootings. Why would someone committing murder be discouraged by a gun law?
Calling for gun control is the response from uneducated people simply to further their political agenda. Talk about real answers, not something that has already been proven not to work.

 

[krazykats]

And here we go with the technicalities, someone please explain why no other country has this issue? Stop spewing your own personal gun facts, congrats, you own one.

Look either can point to the other as having a stupid view on this.

But the truth is we don’t stop printing money because everyone is in debt. The problem isn’t the tool, it’s the people. Blaming guns is the easiest stupidest way to find an answer.

Want to fix schools, Metal detector, and require 1 security guard per 100 students, then require principle/counselors to have gun training with a weapon kept in a safe in their offices.

Also, stop forcing school as the only route before age 18. If those idiots are too stupid to see how an education is vital to their future then give up on them. No offense but we as a society drag losers by the hand through life and we are delaying the inevitable.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Is it not Marylin Manson's fault anymore?

 

[FusterCluck]

Mav, looking forward to your answer. Please respond to the FACT that we are the ONLY country who has this problem. Bet you won't.

Israel arms its teachers. They don't have school shootings. They have bombings and missile attacks, but the schools are safe.

Those are facts.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

I don't think Israel is a good comparison. Pretty sure it's not an armed, mentally impaired student the reason they are armed with AR-15's.

 

[FusterCluck]

I don't think Israel is a good comparison. Pretty sure it's not an armed, mentally impaired student the reason they are armed with AR-15's.

Why not. That's a problem they'll never have to worry with and it dispels the guns are dangerous around kids narrative that currently hampers our broken system. Feel free to point out how it's wrong otherwise. Those kids are protected by armed teachers. Who they protect them against is moot to most sane folks.

 

[wkycatfan]

I still think there needs to be deeper study into why this happens, outside of talking about access to guns.

It didn't happen 20 yrs prior or as often. So why an uptick? And in a country of 320 million where millions have guns or have access to them, what makes a small percentage act in this manner? In the world's most medicated population I assume that plays a part in some...but then again many others are on various mood drugs and do nothing. But I believe more investigation of correlation of behavior is important in these matters

This is my main question. Social media, 24-7 news cycles, violent video games, lack of hope? All of the above?

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

Why not. That's a problem they'll never have to worry with and it dispels the guns are dangerous around kids narrative that currently hampers our broken system. Feel free to point out how it's wrong otherwise. Those kids are protected by armed teachers. Who they protect them against is moot to most sane folks.

Still doesn't fix the problem that this person was mentally disturbed and there was warning signs. If not a school, then it's a football game. movie theater or other public area. Are you going to require teachers to arm themselves, pretty sure it's a right also not to.

 

[SomeDudeCRO]

We have a culturual problem.

This is one nation, under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. The individual is entitled to life, liberty and the persuit of his happiness.

If you take away or diminish in anyway any one of those things, you do so at great peril.

Stop being so naive; learn to discuss these things... to disagree without being so disagreeable.

The individual has to fix this, not government or laws. Maybe you don't expel a problem child who is going through the death of his mother. Maybe you don't take said kid in without explicitily disallowing him to have guns under you roof. Maybe you don't etc.. think

 

[FusterCluck]

Still doesn't fix the problem that this person was mentally disturbed and there was warning signs. If not a school, then it's a football game. movie theater or other public area. Are you going to require teachers to arm themselves, pretty sure it's a right also not to.

If there are kids around any event or institution, in this climate, yes, I feel they all deserve protection. Either by teachers or by hired security, I'd prefer the latter.

So, your answer is to leave the kids defenseless? Sounds like what we're already doing, right? Mental illness isn't going away, no matter how much checking. Also, mental illness can arise at a later time in an already psych-checked gun owner... where would that leave the defenseless kids? I can list 100 loopholescenarios that all end with kids needing to be protected in schools and at other venues. Again, my premise for this is we do the exact opposite now and keep getting the result we don't want.

Any teacher that refuses any measure to protect his/her students is a coward of the highest order and probably shouldn't be trusted with another person's kid.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

If there are kids around any event or institution, in this climate, yes, I feel they all deserve protection. Either by teachers or by hired security, I'd prefer the latter.

So, your answer is to leave the kids defenseless? Sounds like what we're already doing, right? Mental illness isn't going away, no matter how much checking. Also, mental illness can arise at a later time in an already psych-checked gun owner... where would that leave the defenseless kids? I can list 100 loopholescenarios that all end with kids needing to be protected in schools and at other venues. Again, my premise for this is we do the exact opposite now and keep getting the result we don't want.

Any teacher that refuses any measure to protect his/her students is a coward of the highest order and probably shouldn't be trusted with another person's kid.

Plus the gun laws are different in Israel, you have to prove you need one if you work or live in a dangerous area. You have a police screening and mental exam. You are licensed and have to renew the exam every 3 years. So there is no right to bear arms.
For you plan to work we would have to remove guns from 80 percent of the populace.

 

[FusterCluck]

So, in your logic... we have more gun owners and less stringent background checks in a country with 40times the population size, all of which lends to more shootings... so it's useless for teachers to resist an attack by defending themselves and their classes?

Very defeatist attitude just to be so scared of guns.

You start popping these little shitcakes in the forehead and plaster that shit on TV instead of glorifying them for a week like MSM does, and watch the shootings magically dry up in this country... mental illnesses be damned.

 

[FusterCluck]

As I said in the Pol thread... you can have a complete gun ban and it won't make the guns go away. Illegal guns seem to not follow laws. You can have all the metal examinations you can dream up... someone will still lose their shit and want to shoot something or somebody. To deny those things is to display a short-sighted view of this country and human nature.

Those kids desrve protection while the gun problem sorts itself. At this rate, we're losing more kids than guns b/c we continue tom refuse to protect them while we continue to not address the problem. Not fair to the kids. To me, anyway.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

And talking about scenarios, what would keep a student from taking a gun from a teacher and using it?

This day and age why do we need brick and mortar schools anyways. You can get a Bachelor's degree online, no reason you can't teach kids at home via remote.

 

[FusterCluck]

And talking about scenarios, what would keep a student from taking a gun from a teacher and using it?

This day and age why do we need brick and mortar schools anyways. You can get a Bachelor's degree online, no reason you can't teach kids at home via remote.

I'm going to go with the other teachers with guns.

Yeah, have you met the social media zombies that comprise this generation? Teeming with social skills, self-worth and being well-rounded aren't exactly their strong points, and those are a direct result of lack of interaction with life in general. I've not reached the point that I'm so scared of society that I'm wiling to throw in the towel and live from a bubble.

Why not start with trying to fix the issue by removing the "Gun-Free Zone" neon signs above schools that attract coward shooters like moths to flame?

 

[Bill Cosby]

Maybe before we start arming teachers, the FBI could start following up on Youtube comments that get reported to it with people claiming they're going to shoot up a school.

Too bad the shooter's name wasn't Nikolas Smirnov. Director of the FBI probably would have personally followed up on his Youtube comment.

 

[MacCard]

I'm not sure what the answer is, but probably the dumbest of the ideas is the one where we simply give teachers guns. I've had a lot of teachers in my day, and I can think of maybe one or two that would have any business running into the line of fire. Plus, what do I do if I'm someone who just wants to teach Social Studies and not be relied on to have law enforcement-type training to engage and put down an active shooter?

 

[FusterCluck]

Maybe before we start arming teachers, the FBI could start following up on Youtube comments that get reported to it with people claiming they're going to shoot up a school.

Too bad the shooter's name wasn't Nikolas Smirnov. Director of the FBI probably would have personally followed up on his Youtube comment.

Again, though, we aren't going to be so lucky as to have every attacker post warning vids, or even get noticed if they do. All these shootings we've seen since Columbine, very few offer any real warnings.

Protect the GD kids, regardless. It's a basic instinct being squashed by irrational fear and political correctness.

 

[FutureCityCats]

Well, read the whole thread. Agree with some of course. My wife and I was leading a local church youth group and two of our kids was in the prayer circle that Michael C. busted in and killed 3 kids at Heath High School Dec. 1, 1997. Of the kids that died, one of those had a sister that came to our house every day for over a month seeking counsel and also had us make a cross for her sister's grave.

Yesterday, I was so angry and lost for a solution, I screamed that they should draw and quarter that kid on site as a deterrent to anyone who would want to do that in the future. I still live with the effects of the Heath shooting ever day even though it was 20 years ago. This morning I took two of my kids to the very same building the shooting happened.

I have many friends at Marshall Co. including the Superintendent.

Certainly, at the moment, I think metal detectors, lock down, armed teachers or someone patrolling the halls, bullet proof doors would help.

Thanks to all for the discussion as I will continue to read. My heart is broken again. FCC.

 

[Catman100]

I'm not sure what the answer is, but probably the dumbest of the ideas is the one where we simply give teachers guns. I've had a lot of teachers in my day, and I can think of maybe one or two that would have any business running into the line of fire. Plus, what do I do if I'm someone who just wants to teach Social Studies and not be relied on to have law enforcement-type training to engage and put down an active shooter?

What if a teacher got say a $5000 a year raise to be fully trained to use said firearm and be part of school defense? Would that attract teachers to get that law enforcement-type training? I don't know the actual answer, but I would tend to think yes, you would have 5-10 teachers per school interested in that.

So then the other option is a school TSA. Just some general numbers here:
TSA is in 500 some airports
TSA has 60,000 employees
TSA 2018 budget of 7.2 billion

100,000 public schools in the USA.
Need 3 to 10 School TSA employees per school.
Possible 300,000 to 1 million employees.
Add costs of metal detectors. You gonna have 1 of those for a school of 3000?
Sounds like a massive unbelievable budget for something like that.
Do you get all of that money by stopping foreign aid? Is it enough?

No easy fixes if you ask me, but something has to be done. My daughter goes to one of the nicest elementary schools in Lexington, but I often wonder how they would deal with a lunatic at the front door.

 

[Platinumdrgn]

there is 0% chance they are putting officers and metal detectors in every school. most schools are already underfunded, the cost of that kind of security is astronomical. Your talking basically doubling the education budget when the GOP wants to cut it 30%.

 

[Dore95]

My 9 year old daughter's school (North Broward Prep) just a few miles away from the Parkland School from yesterday, was on full lockdown this morning, Swat teams, the works, because of a "false alarm" of shots. This is scary AF. It seems to me that metal detectors is the obvious answer. That would require the expense of having a TSA-type person at the school, but I don't see any other way. having said that, funding for that would be a major issue everywhere. The rest of the "solutions" in this thread - armed teachers, armed security guards roaming the halls, etc. are so far fetched they are not worth talking about.

 

[MacCard]

What if a teacher got say a $5000 a year raise to be fully trained to use said firearm and be part of school defense? Would that attract teachers to get that law enforcement-type training? I don't know the actual answer, but I would tend to think yes, you would have 5-10 teachers per school interested in that.

So what happens when those 5-10 teachers (which sounds like a really high number when you consider the number of schools throughout the country) grab the $5,000 raise thinking it'll never happen at their school, go through the classes, then high tail it out of there when the bullets start flying? And what happens when you don't get 5-10 at a school? Do you have to let teachers go to get people that would be willing to defend the school?

There is a certain type of person that goes into law enforcement and another type of person that goes into teaching. Those types rarely intersect, and surely not enough to be able to adequately defend every school in the country.

 

[MacCard]

My 9 year old daughter's school (North Broward Prep) just a few miles away from the Parkland School from yesterday, was on full lockdown this morning, Swat teams, the works, because of a "false alarm" of shots. This is scary AF. It seems to me that metal detectors is the obvious answer. That would require the expense of having a TSA-type person at the school, but I don't see any other way. having said that, funding for that would be a major issue everywhere. The rest of the "solutions" in this thread - armed teachers, armed security guards roaming the halls, etc. are so far fetched they are not worth talking about.

How would metal detectors work when someone like yesterday could just blast his way through? Metal detectors would probably prevent instances where someone is sneaking in a weapon to target a certain individual, but probably isn't going to do anything about someone coming in guns blazing.

 

[Tskware]

Not wading into this argument, because there is zero percent chance it will change one person's mind on guns;

But here is how pitiful the state of our country is - 17 kids murdered at a high school, and it is not even front page news in today's Lexington Herald Leader. Meanwhile, I have not read any follow up to the previous shooting at Marshall County, quickly forgotten, it is literally yesterday's news (whatever happened to the shooter anyway? Did they release his name?)

P.S. Why focus on schools? This kind of "event" is coming to a crowded football, basketball or baseball stadium near you, probably sooner rather than later. Just like concerts and malls and other crowded venues.

 

[Deeeefense]

There are numerous social media pics of him showing off his guns and knives. Teachers are saying he was a well known troublemaker and was expelled from school for making threats.

This is what upsets me, as this guy was literally advertising this event ahead of time and nothing was done to intercede.
I think what would really be helpful is to have local intervention teams made up of volunteers from various backgrounds - psychologies, clergy, educators, law professionals etc., that would work with law enforcement. A "9-11" type system would be set up so that when anyone observes someone exhibiting this type of behavior, the team can be alerted and preventative action taken in the way of counseling, surveillance etc.

 

[wkycatfan]

Not wading into this argument, because there is zero percent chance it will change one person's mind on guns;

But here is how pitiful the state of our country is - 17 kids murdered at a high school, and it is not even front page news in today's Lexington Herald Leader. Meanwhile, I have not read any follow up to the previous shooting at Marshall County, quickly forgotten, it is literally yesterday's news (whatever happened to the shooter anyway? Did they release his name?)

P.S. Why focus on schools? This kind of "event" is coming to a crowded football, basketball or baseball stadium near you, probably sooner rather than later. Just like concerts and malls and other crowded venues.

The kid is a minor, but attempt being made to try as adult. If successful, you'll see his name then.

 

[Deeeefense]

Calling for gun control is the response from uneducated people simply to further their political agenda.

Depends on what your definition of gun control is. I think it's reasonable to work towards having a system where law abiding citizens can exercise their first amendment rights by purchasing the guns that they want, while preventing criminals, domestic abusers, the mentally unstable and terrorist from obtaining them.
There is no perfect solution that will attain that 100% but I think most reasonable people would agree with that as a general goal, though the ways means may be debatable. Only the outliers on the far left that want all gun sales to be eliminated or the outliers on the far right that want free and unrestricted gun sales to anyone would have a problem with that.

 

[Catfan in Tn.]

The kid is a minor, but attempt being made to try as adult. If successful, you'll see his name then.

Gabe Parker comes up in search.

 

[coach-2]

Congratulations, you’ve just been appointed Supreme Dictator of the United States. Your word is now law. List the top 5 “common sense” gun laws you’d enact that would (a) have prevented the prior “300 shootings” and (b) which will stop the next mass shooting. Take your time.

Mav, looking forward to your answer. Please respond to the FACT that we are the ONLY country who has this problem. Bet you won't.

Most of these shootings are committed by wacko democrats. In fact the vast majority of all gun crimes in the US are committed by democrats. Perhaps we should start looking at why mental illness and violence behavior is so prevalent among democrats.

 

[Catman100]

So what happens when those 5-10 teachers (which sounds like a really high number when you consider the number of schools throughout the country) grab the $5,000 raise thinking it'll never happen at their school, go through the classes, then high tail it out of there when the bullets start flying? And what happens when you don't get 5-10 at a school? Do you have to let teachers go to get people that would be willing to defend the school?

There is a certain type of person that goes into law enforcement and another type of person that goes into teaching. Those types rarely intersect, and surely not enough to be able to adequately defend every school in the country.

You probably always have the risk of any type of security high tailing it out of there in a maximum crisis situation like yesterday, but hopefully the proper training helps that. I understand where you are coming from comparing teachers to law enforcement, but perhaps adjustments have to be made. I think if I was a teacher I wouldn't hesitate to get a 5k raise and training for a what if scenario. Maybe I would be in a low percentage, maybe not.

With that said, I think my main point is that there is no easy fix, but this might be the most feasible answer to this situation. Not sure a metal detector stops what happened yesterday, and not sure a SCHOOL TSA is financially possible.

Like I said, no easy fix, but some kind of change has to happen.

 

[wkycatfan]

Gabe Parker comes up in search.

They have never said his name on any newscast that I know of.

 

[Mashburned]

I would imagine there are teachers/coaches/admin in most every school that are CCW trained. Let them carry. That's pretty simple. Not a big deal.

Our stupid media/politicians just freak out about guns for shock value. There is nothing our government can really do to prevent this. Aside from obvious security measures - metal detectors, more secure perimeters, OH AND FOLLOWING UP ON CRAZY PEOPLE WHO YOU'VE IDENTIFIED AS A THREAT AND ARE KNOWN TO LOCAL PD AND FBI - let the good guys with guns have their guns and shut up.

***like others have said, I think this is mostly a family/society/community problem.

 

[wkycatfan]

What's different? I don't remember having these shootings when I was in school in the 70's.

 

[Bill Cosby]

If the FBI can run a sweeping domestic spy campaign on the incoming POTUS, you'd think they'd be able to spy on some dipshit posting about shooting up his school.

But no, sacrificing our 4th Amendment in the name of security wasn't good enough. Need to give up all rights.

 

[Mashburned]

What's different? I don't remember having these shootings when I was in school in the 70's.

kids are pussies.

Oh, and you could certainly train all teachers in non lethal forms of protection. Just give them some options if they're confronted with a situation.

 

[CUJO_1970]

Of course protecting the kids is the right thing to do - as much as it is terrible to understand that this is what the world we live in has come down to.

Are there not armed guards at banks? Are children not worth more than money?

I do not agree with arming the teachers.

Let the teachers teach, let law enforcement protect. Even a patrol car sitting in front of the school could be a strong deterrent. Perhaps a local police presence will help kids to have a better respect and appreciation for law enforcement as well, if handled properly.

There are ways to make schools safer that do not involve turning them into armed fortresses or require tremendous expenditures.

 

[UKGrad93]

I would imagine there are teachers/coaches/admin in most every school that are CCW trained. Let them carry. That's pretty simple. Not a big deal.

***like others have said, I think this is mostly a family/society/community problem.

I would guess that no one in my kids school has a ccw. Probably no more than a handful in the county.

 

[Catfan in Tn.]

They have never said his name on any newscast that I know of.

Just do a search, the info is easily found. The New York Times has an article that name him.

 

[Mashburned]

I would guess that no one in my kids school has a ccw. Probably no more than a handful in the county.

I would say you'd be surprised. But I live in Kentucky, so maybe way off base. I know since 1996 there have been almost half a million CCDW permits issued in Kentucky which has a population of almost 4.5 million.