Israel/Palestine Conflict

[Wildcats1st]

Here's the problem in the M.E.

You could say this is the problem in all the world.

 

[roguemocha]

You could say this is the problem in all the world.

Meh, I don’t think Iran is causing the problems all around the world, many different sources are capable and currently being part of the problem including us.

Money/power is the problem in the world and peoples incessant desire for it.

 

[LordEgg]

Go protochristians! Death to everyone!

 

[I am stupid]

Meh, I don’t think Iran is causing the problems all around the world, many different sources are capable and currently being part of the problem including us.

Lets see...

Iran funding/helping Hamas(and other Palestinian terrorist groups)
Iran supplying Hezbollah.
Iran sending hundreds of missiles and weapons to Russia.
Iran sending missiles, intelligence, and training Houthis.

They are doing a great job of destabilizing the world. Not to make it too political and its probably just a huge coincidence, but all this really picked up once Iran got access to the 6-10 billion in October/November.

 

[thabigbluenation]

We are and have been funding Iran during Barry's tenure and Biden's "tenure". So I would say we have been a problem. Who are the traitors inside the Washington mafia working with?

 

[WayneDougan]

Here's the problem in the M.E.

I thought you died several years ago, John McCain. Welcome back baby!

 

[csrupp]

They both have attacked each other out of nowhere many times

Israel has never attacked them out of nowhere. Not once ever.

 

[vhcat70]

Hamas has no desire for peace until they wipe Israel off the map. Then, they'll focus on another sect.
Palestine/Hamas are mainly interchangeable.
There is no compromise.

Muslims have no desire for peace until everyone else in the world is subjugated to them.

 

[vhcat70]

There are no Palestinians. They don’t exist. These are Gazans and in the West Bank nomadic Arab Jordanians and bedouins. As long as there are sworn groups to deny the existence of Israel in these lands they will absolutely be at fault and never will there be a Palestine.

The question should be reframed.

Who’s at fault? Israel? Or Muslim extremists who deny their existence? Because if you think it’s Israel vs Palestine you are overlooking the proxy “Palestine” has been used by Muslim countries since 47. The same Muslim countries that expelled their Jewish populations

Very analogous to Russia saying Ukraine is just an area of Russia and has no right to exist separately.

 

[vhcat70]

Israel has never attacked them out of nowhere. Not once ever.

You’re assuming building new settlements in West Bank territories isn’t an attack.

 

[vhcat70]

You could say this is the problem in all the world.

Nah, their partners China and Russia are just as bad.

 

[wkycatfan]

Very deep subject. At this point, they can either continue to fight for eternity, or at some point will have to find peace and all move on for all their betterment. A beautiful region filled with incredible and rich history and great culture, all destroyed by religious and political leaders wanting to stay in power. Very sad. People do t realize how gorgeous that area was and could be, 30 miles from the Mediterranean, no different than Greece or southern Italy.

Very much so. You could say it starts back in Genesis, which is true, but more recently 1948. The history of Jerusalem alone is a wild and crazy ride as well.

 

[csrupp]

You’re assuming building new settlements in West Bank territories isn’t an attack.

Correct. That isn't an attack.

 

[WTF Cat]

Aren't we coming up on "Ramadan Bomb-a-thon"?

One of Gassy's greatest contributions imo.

 

[I am stupid]

 

[vhcat70]

Correct. That isn't an attack.

So building homes on their empty land and shooting at them if they come back to their land later isn’t a attack?

 

[csrupp]

So building homes or their empty land and shooting at them if they come back to their land later isn’t a attack?

Show me proof of this happening and I'll comment on it. Until then, I'll default to supporting Israel over terrorists and the people who put them in power.

 

[Deeeefense]

Show me proof of this happening and I'll comment on it. Until then, I'll default to supporting Israel over terrorists and the people who put them in power.

But it's important to bare in mind that while there are bad actors and often bad leaders on both sides the vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians are just regular people that want to live their lives.

That's why I think it's much more important to focus on solutions rather than blame.

 

[thabigbluenation]

View embedded media

But it's important to bare in mind that while there are bad actors and often bad leaders on both sides the vast majority of Israelis and Palatines are just regular people that want to lie their lives.

That's why I think it's much more important to focus on solutions rather than blame.

You sure sound a lot like Trump

 

[PhDcat2018]

For sure, I won’t look back at this after like page 2, prob check back in at page 10 to confirm the same 5 people have taken up their positions they always do making the same points to the same people getting nowhere.

Just wanting to test the temp of the water briefly this morning after debating with a Palestinian friend.

She’s said if you don’t support us or stay silent you’re guilty of genocide. She’s also like 25-27, likely has 0 recollection of 9/11 and Palestinians celebrating the destruction of her own country.

I said so are you guilty of genocide in Rwanda, the Sudan, South Africa, etc? Are you guilty of the enslaved Muslim Uyghurs in China? You didn’t say shit about them.

Also, when you bring questions like this up the response is “do the research for yourself” which only means she’s caught up in emotion and doesn’t have actual answers otherwise she would just explain them.

Furthermore she’s never even been to the Middle East, I lived there for 3 months, non military. How are you going to tell me about some shit you’ve never experienced except through social media?

She and most who side with "Palestine"
have zero clue about history or even their current feelings. Israel can't turn Gaza, or Iran for that matter, to glass fast enough for me.

Turn "Palestine" (in quotes because there actually IS no such country, because they don't care about that) into an enormous glass ash tray. The "Hammas" get their virgins and what not, and Israel gets the world's largest coffee table "conversation piece" Problem solved.

They could fill it with water, and make a huge water park. It could have a gigantic Menorah fountain in the center. And "swim up" Mogen David wine bars.

This.

 

[PhDcat2018]

So building homes or their empty land and shooting at them if they come back to their land later isn’t a attack?

It never was "their" land lol

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Very analogous to Russia saying Ukraine is just an area of Russia and has no right to exist separately.

Palestine is an area of land, analogous to what we call the Midwest, and was never a people or a nation. In this case, it stretched from Mediterranean to somewhere into the Arabian desert. If the other side had won WWI, they would be part of the Ottoman Empire. Arabs, over the years, have said they are not a people and they should be part of Syria or other surrounding Arab nation. It wasn't until Israel was born that the narrative changed and they started saying that they were a distinct people from the other Arabs in the region and needed a homeland.

 

[Deeeefense]

Palestine is an area of land, analogous to what we call the Midwest, and was never a people or a nation.

The situation with Palestinians is very similar to the historical situation with Native Americans in this country.

Native Americans were never a "country" either but they would argue it didn't justify mass relocation of them by the US government. But OTOH you can argue that the world is a much better place when you look at what became of the United States which is now the leading industrialized national where 330 million people mostly lie in a comparatively high standard with freedom and security. Similarly Israel took a hunk of sand deeded to them by the United Nations, relocated millions of Palestinians and turned it into a modern industrialized country in the form of a democracy which is home to not only Jews but about 3 million Arabs as well.

So people can draw their own conclusions about the rightness or wrongness of the historical events. But once again, why worry about who's "right" and who's "wrong" that accomplishes nothing? Instead world leaders and citizens should think about a solution where ALL the people in the region can live in peace and security.

 

[catlanta33]

The situation with Palestinians is very similar to the historical situation with Native Americans in this country.

Native Americans were never a "country" either but they would argue it didn't justify mass relocation of them by the US government. But OTOH you can argue that the world is a much better place when you look at what became of the United States which is now the leading industrialized national where 330 million people mostly lie in a comparatively high standard with freedom and security. Similarly Israel took a hunk of sand deeded to them by the United Nations, relocated millions of Palestinians and turned it into a modern industrialized country in the form of a democracy which is home to not only Jews but about 3 million Arabs as well.

So people can draw their own conclusions about the rightness or wrongness of the historical events. But once again, why worry about who's "right" and who's "wrong" that accomplishes nothing? Instead world leaders and citizens should think about a solution where ALL the people in the region can live in peace and security.

The big difference being that every so often, Native Americans don't abruptly start beheading babies then crying foul because there was a response.

While what you say sounds good in theory, there is no rationalizing with a group of people getting up everyday looking to eradicate a race of people.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

The situation with Palestinians is very similar to the historical situation with Native Americans in this country.

Native Americans were never a "country" either but they would argue it didn't justify mass relocation of them by the US government. But OTOH you can argue that the world is a much better place when you look at what became of the United States which is now the leading industrialized national where 330 million people mostly lie in a comparatively high standard with freedom and security. Similarly Israel took a hunk of sand deeded to them by the United Nations, relocated millions of Palestinians and turned it into a modern industrialized country in the form of a democracy which is home to not only Jews but about 3 million Arabs as well.

So people can draw their own conclusions about the rightness or wrongness of the historical events. But once again, why worry about who's "right" and who's "wrong" that accomplishes nothing? Instead world leaders and citizens should think about a solution where ALL the people in the region can live in peace and security.

Native Americans, though, are a distinct, unique, people. It could be argued that they are entitled to a "homeland" because they were not part of the Europeans that took over their land. The people who lived in Palestine are not a unique people. The thought of Palestinian people, unique from the surrounding Arabs, didn't take hold until the birth of Israel. Had Israel never been formed, no one would be talking the Palestinians as a people because they are no different from the people living around them.

 

[vhcat70]

Show me proof of this happening and I'll comment on it. Until then, I'll default to supporting Israel over terrorists and the people who put them in power.

I support Israel and Ukraine. Israel has seized West Bank land for settlements. That land is designated for Arabs, just like Gaza. Those settlements are defended with deadly force. That you don’t know this and deny that it’s happened doesn’t put a burden on me of showing you “proof” - whatever that might be to you.

 

[vhcat70]

It never was "their" land lol

So anyone can go to the West Bank and say it’s their land? WTF?

 

[vhcat70]

Palestine is an area of land, analogous to what we call the Midwest, and was never a people or a nation. In this case, it stretched from Mediterranean to somewhere into the Arabian desert. If the other side had won WWI, they would be part of the Ottoman Empire. Arabs, over the years, have said they are not a people and they should be part of Syria or other surrounding Arab nation. It wasn't until Israel was born that the narrative changed and they started saying that they were a distinct people from the other Arabs in the region and needed a homeland.

None of that has anything to do with Israel’s repeated seizure of land designated for Arabs whether there’s a country there or not.

 

[J_Dee]

We live in an incredible era in human history, but I wonder what heights we could've achieved by now if we hadn't spent so much time squabbling over sky gods and dirt.

 

[JumperJack]

The situation with Palestinians is very similar to the historical situation with Native Americans in this country.

Native Americans were never a "country" either but they would argue it didn't justify mass relocation of them by the US government. But OTOH you can argue that the world is a much better place when you look at what became of the United States which is now the leading industrialized national where 330 million people mostly lie in a comparatively high standard with freedom and security. Similarly Israel took a hunk of sand deeded to them by the United Nations, relocated millions of Palestinians and turned it into a modern industrialized country in the form of a democracy which is home to not only Jews but about 3 million Arabs as well.

So people can draw their own conclusions about the rightness or wrongness of the historical events. But once again, why worry about who's "right" and who's "wrong" that accomplishes nothing? Instead world leaders and citizens should think about a solution where ALL the people in the region can live in peace and security.

I can agree with every part of this except the last sentence. There is NO WAY that there will be peace from Palestinians until every Jew is dead or gone. You fundamentally misunderstand Islam if you think they can co-exist.

 

[WTF Cat]

The situation with Palestinians is very similar to the historical situation with Native Americans in this country.

Native Americans were never a "country" either but they would argue it didn't justify mass relocation of them by the US government. But OTOH you can argue that the world is a much better place when you look at what became of the United States which is now the leading industrialized national where 330 million people mostly lie in a comparatively high standard with freedom and security. Similarly Israel took a hunk of sand deeded to them by the United Nations, relocated millions of Palestinians and turned it into a modern industrialized country in the form of a democracy which is home to not only Jews but about 3 million Arabs as well.

So people can draw their own conclusions about the rightness or wrongness of the historical events. But once again, why worry about who's "right" and who's "wrong" that accomplishes nothing? Instead world leaders and citizens should think about a solution where ALL the people in the region can live in peace and security.

"If the Palestinians lay down their weapons, they'll be no more war. If the Israelis lay down their weapons, they'll be no more Israel".

 

[wkycatfan]

The situation with Palestinians is very similar to the historical situation with Native Americans in this country.

Native Americans were never a "country" either but they would argue it didn't justify mass relocation of them by the US government. But OTOH you can argue that the world is a much better place when you look at what became of the United States which is now the leading industrialized national where 330 million people mostly lie in a comparatively high standard with freedom and security. Similarly Israel took a hunk of sand deeded to them by the United Nations, relocated millions of Palestinians and turned it into a modern industrialized country in the form of a democracy which is home to not only Jews but about 3 million Arabs as well.

So people can draw their own conclusions about the rightness or wrongness of the historical events. But once again, why worry about who's "right" and who's "wrong" that accomplishes nothing? Instead world leaders and citizens should think about a solution where ALL the people in the region can live in peace and security.

Israel was a country up until about 70 AD as I understand it. Long, long time ago, but still.

 

[Catman100]

"If the Palestinians lay down their weapons, they'll be no more war. If the Israelis lay down their weapons, they'll be no more Israel".

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NO CAP.

 

[PhDcat2018]

So anyone can go to the West Bank and say it’s their land? WTF?

"Palestinians" aren't a thing. They're not a nation. So no, they don't own that land.

 

[vhcat70]

"Palestinians" aren't a thing. They're not a nation. So no, they don't own that land.

They are Arab people regardless of how one chooses to define them beyond that, nation, nomads, whatever. But the land Israelis are settling were designated by the UN for them, not Jews or anyone else. As I said, by your reasoning you could helicopter in and stake a claim to it. Nonsense.

 

[roguemocha]

Native Americans, though, are a distinct, unique, people. It could be argued that they are entitled to a "homeland" because they were not part of the Europeans that took over their land. The people who lived in Palestine are not a unique people. The thought of Palestinian people, unique from the surrounding Arabs, didn't take hold until the birth of Israel. Had Israel never been formed, no one would be talking the Palestinians as a people because they are no different from the people living around them.

Touch the Indians! And I love them, have tats referring to them and think they’re badass, but it’s never anyone’s land, EVER. Because it will change hands at some point, the USA will not be the USA one day, that’s a fact.

If you can’t defend “your land”, it ain’t yours anymore, that’s life. If you have a wallet and I have a gun and take it, it’s no longer your wallet, it’s mine. You couldn't defend your wallet anymore.

No one has a claim to anything. This world gives and takes, claim whatever you want, the universe couldn’t care less, it owns us all. Go buy property on the California coast and watch the earth reclaim it as its own, then ask for it back…

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Touch the Indians! And I love them, have tats referring to them and think they’re badass, but it’s never anyone’s land, EVER. Because it will change hands at some point, the USA will not be the USA one day, that’s a fact.

If you can’t defend “your land”, it ain’t yours anymore, that’s life. If you have a wallet and I have a gun and take it, it’s no longer your wallet, it’s mine. You couldn't defend your wallet anymore.

No one has a claim to anything. This world gives and takes, claim whatever you want, the universe couldn’t care less, it owns us all. Go buy property on the California coast and watch the earth reclaim it as its own, then ask for it back…

I'm not arguing that anyone has a claim to anything. I was simply pointing out that native Americans are a unique people so they are not analogous to what is referred to as Palestinians. And I agree with you. If we are going to unravel the middle east and return it to the original inhabitants, don't we have to unravel every piece of land on earth and do the same?

 

[RunninRichie]

One of the biggest memes in the world is the native americans land was stolen. Yeah, and that land was stolen from some other tribe thousands of years ago. And on and on. Hell, my neighbors land was stolen by the US government, for highway expansion.

 

[csrupp]

View embedded media

But it's important to bare in mind that while there are bad actors and often bad leaders on both sides the vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians are just regular people that want to live their lives.

That's why I think it's much more important to focus on solutions rather than blame.

Al Jazeera? That's a radical Islam propaganda network.

 

[csrupp]

The situation with Palestinians is very similar to the historical situation with Native Americans in this country.

Native Americans were never a "country" either but they would argue it didn't justify mass relocation of them by the US government. But OTOH you can argue that the world is a much better place when you look at what became of the United States which is now the leading industrialized national where 330 million people mostly lie in a comparatively high standard with freedom and security. Similarly Israel took a hunk of sand deeded to them by the United Nations, relocated millions of Palestinians and turned it into a modern industrialized country in the form of a democracy which is home to not only Jews but about 3 million Arabs as well.

So people can draw their own conclusions about the rightness or wrongness of the historical events. But once again, why worry about who's "right" and who's "wrong" that accomplishes nothing? Instead world leaders and citizens should think about a solution where ALL the people in the region can live in peace and security.

Palestinians don't want a solution. They've been offered their own state multiple times and refused it each time. The only "solution" they will accept is the death of all Jews in Israel.