Israel/Palestine Conflict

[roguemocha]

Am I alone in thinking both these sides deserve whatever they do to each other at this point?

They both have attacked each other out of nowhere many times, killing 100,000s of people at this point, causing fear, hunger and strife in their own lands and stress on the rest of the world always tightroping this situation.

Palestine is saying “CEASEFIRE!!! This is genocide!” While also allowing Hamas who has sworn genocide upon Israelis, to run their country, pretty hypocritical, no?

Israel saying “they killed almost 2000 citizens out of nowhere they should pay!” Yeah but you’ve done the same thing 100 times and you want them all dead too. Pretty hypocritical, no?

I’m almost to the point where it’s like one side finish the other off so we can stop dealing with this as a global community. It’s infuriating.

And I couldn’t care less about the politics behind this although I know most people will hijack this thread and turn it into R vs D because so many are eaten up with politics and yelling at the opposite side and that is all they have in life, apparently.

 

[warrior-cat]

While I voted Palestine/Hamas as starting it (actual confrontation this time) I think Iran is probably funding/supporting it. It really depends on who/what (agencies reporting it) you listen to.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Political thread.

 

[roguemocha]

Political thread.

No way I’m wading through that pile of shit man.

While I voted Palestine/Hamas as starting it (actual confrontation this time) I think Iran is probably funding/supporting it. It really depends on who/what (agencies reporting it) you listen to.

But that doesn’t mean Palestinians have to accept the money and go attack Israelis does it? People pay hit men all the time up front and the “hit man” just takes the money and says thanks without killing anyone.

That’s the problem with both sides too, they’re completely in the right and we should all 100% see only their side.

I have Palestinian friends posting daily on socials that silence is guilt/approval whatever.

I pointed out to them saying “how can you not want to stop the genocide!!!!!”

That’s interesting because none of them I know ever spoke up about Rwanda, Sudan, South Africa or the Uyghurs in China.

And as far as Jews go, it seems like they feel entitled to do whatever they want from the millennia of atrocities against them.

Idk, I think they both selfish assholes if you ask me.

Bad news for the Palestinians is that I don’t think the world is going to physically stop Israel if they feel like wiping out the rest of Gaza.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Hamas literally started it on live television.

 

[Mdnerd]

Hamas literally started it on live television.

Yup, the fact this is even a question shows how powerful media propaganda is.

 

[catlanta33]

Don't think we need to spend US money on either and would rather them figure it out.

One of these groups celebrated dead Jews being dragged through their streets and has reneged on all efforts to find some middle ground.

They coincidentally celebrated 9/11, too.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

Israel committed zero genocide

 

[Ron Mehico]

Very deep subject. At this point, they can either continue to fight for eternity, or at some point will have to find peace and all move on for all their betterment. A beautiful region filled with incredible and rich history and great culture, all destroyed by religious and political leaders wanting to stay in power. Very sad. People do t realize how gorgeous that area was and could be, 30 miles from the Mediterranean, no different than Greece or southern Italy.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

No way I’m wading through that pile of shit man.

Hold that thought.

 

[roguemocha]

Yup, the fact this is even a question shows how powerful media propaganda is.

I don’t think it’s not “even a question”, but I know what you mean. The Israelis have done plenty to provoke over the years for sure as well.

A Palestinian friend of mine said well “that’s our land!” I said nobody owns ANY land because if someone shows up with more people and bigger guns it ain’t yours anymore. It’s only yours if you can defend it.

 

[Ron Mehico]

I don’t think it’s not “even a question”, but I know what you mean. The Israelis have done plenty to provoke over the years for sure as well.

A Palestinian friend of mine said well “that’s our land!” I said nobody owns ANY land because if someone shows up with more people and bigger guns it ain’t yours anymore. It’s only yours if you can defend it.

I’ve never seen an 80 year argument with only one side to blame.

 

[roguemocha]

I’ve never seen an 80 year argument with only one side to blame.

More than 80 years though, goes back to the 1800s I believe.

 

[Ron Mehico]

More than 80 years though, goes back to the 1800s I believe.

Israel was created in 1948, Palestine was founded in 1988

 

[chroix]

Seems like a lot of moderate people on both sides are being held hostage by extremist minorities. Hope that never happens here.

 

[roguemocha]

Hold that thought.

For sure, I won’t look back at this after like page 2, prob check back in at page 10 to confirm the same 5 people have taken up their positions they always do making the same points to the same people getting nowhere.

Just wanting to test the temp of the water briefly this morning after debating with a Palestinian friend.

She’s said if you don’t support us or stay silent you’re guilty of genocide. She’s also like 25-27, likely has 0 recollection of 9/11 and Palestinians celebrating the destruction of her own country.

I said so are you guilty of genocide in Rwanda, the Sudan, South Africa, etc? Are you guilty of the enslaved Muslim Uyghurs in China? You didn’t say shit about them.

Also, when you bring questions like this up the response is “do the research for yourself” which only means she’s caught up in emotion and doesn’t have actual answers otherwise she would just explain them.

Furthermore she’s never even been to the Middle East, I lived there for 3 months, non military. How are you going to tell me about some shit you’ve never experienced except through social media?

 

[roguemocha]

Israel was created in 1948, Palestine was founded in 1988

The conflict has its origins in the arrival of Jewish immigrants and settlers to Palestine in the late 19th and 20th centuries and the advent of the Zionist movement.[21] The local Arab population opposed Zionism, primarily out of fear of territorial displacement and dispossession.

I’m aware Ron, I have a minor in Arab Islamic studies, but they didn’t create the state and start fighting the next day man, there were always people there, always distrustful of the other.

 

[Bill Cosby]

I wonder if you could train an LLM on the Ukraine thread and accurately predict the responses of each of the posters in this thread.

 

[Bill Cosby]

As our country continues to be ruled by more corrupt dipshits each passing day, I tend to side with whichever side is against slaughtering innocent civilians as retribution for the actions of their government. Whether Israeli or Palestinian.

 

[roguemocha]

No idea what an LLM is but I’m sure I could predict 90% of the responses from the idiots in the political thread, that includes ardent pubs and Dems, both equally stupid humans.

 

[roguemocha]

As our country continues to be ruled by more corrupt dipshits each passing day, I tend to side with whichever side is against slaughtering innocent civilians as retribution for the actions of their government. Whether Israeli or Palestinian.

Well the problem with Palestine is I don’t think they’ve had an election in twenty years so Hamas has just taken over but then again the people could’ve said no if they were against it. Seems like Palestinians like Hamas until hamas actions affect their lives but I don’t know obviously how the average Palestinian in Palestine feels.

 

[Ron Mehico]

The conflict has its origins in the arrival of Jewish immigrants and settlers to Palestine in the late 19th and 20th centuries and the advent of the Zionist movement.[21] The local Arab population opposed Zionism, primarily out of fear of territorial displacement and dispossession.

I’m aware Ron, I have a minor in Arab Islamic studies, but they didn’t create the state and start fighting the next day man, there were always people there, always distrustful of the other.

I mean your thread title is Israel/Palestine conflict Rogue! 😜 I’m extremely well aware of the area, really my main “big picture” thought is at some point peace will need to be found in order for both groups to better themselves. It’s an incredible area with amazing history and culture that will never flourish without stability. But it’s deep and very ingrained. Even in elementary school they start “teaching” the kids about the other side. I just don’t know how you get past it, but that’s the only way they will ever be happy over there. It’s not just one sides fault.

 

[roguemocha]

Here’s a joke to lighten the mood,

Why don’t employers ever hire a Palestinian or Israeli?

Because neither can finish the job…

 

[cricket3]

Sarah and Hagar

 

[KAB Cats]

What is in America’s interest, actually?

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

The conflict has its origins in the arrival of Jewish immigrants and settlers to Palestine in the late 19th and 20th centuries and the advent of the Zionist movement.[21] The local Arab population opposed Zionism, primarily out of fear of territorial displacement and dispossession.

I’m aware Ron, I have a minor in Arab Islamic studies, but they didn’t create the state and start fighting the next day man, there were always people there, always distrustful of the other.

I think it goes back even further than that. Prior to birth of Christ, Jews had kingdoms in that land and were overthrown by surrounding powers. Ultimately, they were pushed out of that land and then ultimately returned. Even when the Jews originally arrived before Christ, there were indigenous people living there, but it was never separate State. It was always controlled by someone else. Had the other side won WWI, there was no plan to have a Palestinian State. They would have been part of the Ottoman Empire. There have been lots of statement by Arabs over the years saying Palestinians are not a people. It's an area of land. I think the idea of a Palestinian State is more about trying to subvert Israel than giving the Palestinians a home land because prior to WWI no one thought they were a people separate from any of the Arabs already living in the area.

 

[J_Dee]

Imagine how different the world would be right now if the Uganda Plan had been approved.

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

Imagine how different the world would be right now if the Uganda Plan had been approved.

Before that they were offered Argentina.

 

[kyleb740]

Well the problem with Palestine is I don’t think they’ve had an election in twenty years so Hamas has just taken over but then again the people could’ve said no if they were against it. Seems like Palestinians like Hamas until hamas actions affect their lives but I don’t know obviously how the average Palestinian in Palestine feels.

Well the problem with Palestine is I don’t think they’ve had an election in twenty years so Hamas has just taken over but then again the people could’ve said no if they were against it. Seems like Palestinians like Hamas until hamas actions affect their lives but I don’t know obviously how the average Palestinian in Palestine feels.

Both sides are at fault.

Israel keeps electing Netanyahu, who continues to provoke the conflict with settlements and has no interest in seeing peace in the region. His power is predicated on the threat of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran.

Both sides have leaders who have no interest in bringing the conflict in general to an end with any sort of compromise.

I would imagine Palestines in Gaza “like” Hamas cause it’s one of the few orgs in Gaza with money (unfortunately from Iran) and during non conflict times they provide social services.

 

[CAT Scratch FVR]

Hamas has no desire for peace until they wipe Israel off the map. Then, they'll focus on another sect.
Palestine/Hamas are mainly interchangeable.
There is no compromise.

 

[Deeeefense]

Both have some level of blame, and it goes to leadership and having the radicals in charge. In reality the Likud and the ultra religious conservatives in Israel want to exile all Palestinians to other countries outside the region, while radicals that support the Palestinians want to put Israel out of existence.

Until leadership on both sides changes there will not be any serous negotiations for a two state solution. It seems that the Palestinian authority is headed that way and hopefully when all this ends Israel will follow.

I would rather see all parties focus on a solution rather than blame.

 

[Catman100]

First and only time I was in Israel was while in the Navy around 88-89. Was amazed at how many teen boys and girls where in the Israeli military carrying machine guns while patrolling the streets.

Seems to me, your neighbor must have really shown you what they are capable of if you have to have teens with machine guns protecting your streets. I will always fall back on that personal experience, and the HAMAS actions of October 2023 certainly don't help change my mind.

 

[MegaBlue05]

I say put up a WWE-style steel cage around the whole place and let them fight it out.

I feel like both sides are at fault. Those people have been going at it since the dawn of time and nothing will change. Neither side has a problem slaughtering civilians on the other side, so I am firmly f em both.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

I say put up a WWE-style steel cage around the whole place and let them fight it out.

just lock them in the rec center overnight with some games and puzzles. Worked for the crips and bloods

 

[nerdcat]

Recommend the podcast “Unpacking Israeli History”. Told from an Israeli perspective, but very even-handed.

 

[Wildcats1st]

There are no Palestinians. They don’t exist. These are Gazans and in the West Bank nomadic Arab Jordanians and bedouins. As long as there are sworn groups to deny the existence of Israel in these lands they will absolutely be at fault and never will there be a Palestine.

The question should be reframed.

Who’s at fault? Israel? Or Muslim extremists who deny their existence? Because if you think it’s Israel vs Palestine you are overlooking the proxy “Palestine” has been used by Muslim countries since 47. The same Muslim countries that expelled their Jewish populations

 

[sg24]

The one and only thing that would stop this is that the palestinians turn over all Hamas onto the IDF. Anything other than that, Israel should continue to do what they have been doing. The trouble is, once Hamas is finished a new, more dangerous and desperate regime will enter the region.

 

[*CatinIL*]

Here's the problem in the M.E.

 

[JumperJack]

This is total war. The only acceptable outcome for Israel is the unconditional surrender of Hamas, and that includes trials for war crimes.

Would we have settled for a cease fire with Japan after what they did at Pearl Harbor? Of course not.

War is hell.

 

[HymanKaplan]

Turn "Palestine" (in quotes because there actually IS no such country, because they don't care about that) into an enormous glass ash tray. The "Hammas" get their virgins and what not, and Israel gets the world's largest coffee table "conversation piece" Problem solved.

They could fill it with water, and make a huge water park. It could have a gigantic Menorah fountain in the center. And "swim up" Mogen David wine bars.