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College Basketball Corruption Trial - FINAL WEEK

Here is how it works, from Gary Parrish:



. . .

What that exchange features is Gassnola essentially promising Self that he'll help him land five-star prospects because Kansas is Adidas' biggest basketball program and what's good for Kansas is good for Adidas. Gassnola assures Self he will deliver because he's never previously let him down -- except for that time with Deandre Ayton, the five-star center who enrolled at Arizona, a Nike school, even though Gassnola paid one of Ayton's friends $15,000, according to testimony last week. And Self welcomes the help from Adidas because, he believes, North Carolina and Duke get similar help from Nike. So does Kentucky, Gassnola proclaims.

Simply put, this has been college basketball for a while.

Self was right.

That's how it works.

Now do I have proof that Nike has paid prospects to go to Nike schools, or that Under Armour has paid prospects to go to Under Armour schools? No. (The feds might, though.) But what I do know is that coaches have long believed both Nike and Under Armour assist Nike and Under Armour schools in recruiting exactly the same way it's been proven Adidas assisted Kansas, NC State and Louisville in recruiting.

Self's texts are evidence of that.

And this is a point I've made for over a year now -- since the day Jim Gatto, Merl Code, Christian Dawkins and seven other men were charged with federal crimes via an ongoing investigation into corruption in college basketball -- the point that shoe-company assistance, regardless of what's right or wrong, was largely considered acceptable behavior in the sport before the government said it's not.

That's the truth.

It might sound crazy now, I know. But the perception of shoe-company involvement in recruiting was so prevalent in recent years that I rarely heard a coach complain publicly or even privately about losing a so-called Nike kid to a so-called Nike school, or a so-called Under Armour kid to a so-called Under Armour school, or a so-called Adidas kid to a so-called Adidas school, even when the coach believed a shoe company had compensated a family in violation of NCAA rules. It was, more or less, for many, just considered part of the sport.

Again, Self's texts underline that point.

Why did he want Gassnola working for Kansas? Because, he believed, somebody at Nike was working for Duke and North Carolina. And why was Gassnola so anxious to help Kansas? Because, he believed, somebody at Nike was also helping Kentucky.

That's four blue-blood programs with Hall of Fame coaches.

"That's how [it] works," Self texted Gassnola.

Yep.

That's. How. It. Works.
But you idiots couldn't even cheat good. Lol
 
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One would have to assume that the FBI knows exactly who's doing it. If they know Adidas is, and brought these guys to federal trial, then it would have made sense that they also had dirt on Nike, if in fact they too were doing it.

Yet here we are - a trial in federal court that involves only Adidas. The only ones mentioning Nike at all are the idiots from Adidas that got caught.

Didn't we skip a Nike sponsored tournament last year or something and the Nike guy kind of call Cal out on it? I can't remember the specifics, but think it was an early season tournament that Texas was in last year.
 
Every coach knows.

You have really dug yourself a hole here. Does every coach know? Perhaps. But that does not mean every coach partakes. The problem you have here is that Self clearly has partaken, but supposedly without knowledge.

Not so, according to you. You just squashed his supposed defense, and one you have been parroting on here for days.
 
Here is how it works, from Gary Parrish:



. . .

What that exchange features is Gassnola essentially promising Self that he'll help him land five-star prospects because Kansas is Adidas' biggest basketball program and what's good for Kansas is good for Adidas. Gassnola assures Self he will deliver because he's never previously let him down -- except for that time with Deandre Ayton, the five-star center who enrolled at Arizona, a Nike school, even though Gassnola paid one of Ayton's friends $15,000, according to testimony last week. And Self welcomes the help from Adidas because, he believes, North Carolina and Duke get similar help from Nike. So does Kentucky, Gassnola proclaims.

Simply put, this has been college basketball for a while.

Self was right.

That's how it works.

Now do I have proof that Nike has paid prospects to go to Nike schools, or that Under Armour has paid prospects to go to Under Armour schools? No. (The feds might, though.) But what I do know is that coaches have long believed both Nike and Under Armour assist Nike and Under Armour schools in recruiting exactly the same way it's been proven Adidas assisted Kansas, NC State and Louisville in recruiting.

Self's texts are evidence of that.

And this is a point I've made for over a year now -- since the day Jim Gatto, Merl Code, Christian Dawkins and seven other men were charged with federal crimes via an ongoing investigation into corruption in college basketball -- the point that shoe-company assistance, regardless of what's right or wrong, was largely considered acceptable behavior in the sport before the government said it's not.

That's the truth.

It might sound crazy now, I know. But the perception of shoe-company involvement in recruiting was so prevalent in recent years that I rarely heard a coach complain publicly or even privately about losing a so-called Nike kid to a so-called Nike school, or a so-called Under Armour kid to a so-called Under Armour school, or a so-called Adidas kid to a so-called Adidas school, even when the coach believed a shoe company had compensated a family in violation of NCAA rules. It was, more or less, for many, just considered part of the sport.

Again, Self's texts underline that point.

Why did he want Gassnola working for Kansas? Because, he believed, somebody at Nike was working for Duke and North Carolina. And why was Gassnola so anxious to help Kansas? Because, he believed, somebody at Nike was also helping Kentucky.

That's four blue-blood programs with Hall of Fame coaches.

"That's how [it] works," Self texted Gassnola.

Yep.

That's. How. It. Works.

But yet Ayton didn’t have an offer from UK or Duke. Why would Cal not want the #1 player in the country? We are big Man U. Ayton would have had an offer if his hand wasn’t out so no, that’s not how it works.

Wrong again shithead.
 
Why isn't Bill Self testifying?

Prosecution doesn't want ANY COACH to testify because they're trying to prove the schools were harmed. The schools weren't harmed if head coaches were part of the conversations.

The defense is trying to prove that more people were involved and some head coaches were part of the process. I don't think they can subpoena Self , Pitino, etc...

My guess is that the government loses this case, but they'll be plenty evidence for NCAA if they decide to move ahead. Unfortunately, I don't expect NCAA to do anything but try to start over with new (toothless) guidelines. I don't think they have the stomach to respond to the current mess.
 
One day it’s Self didn’t know, then these texts come out and suddenly all coaches know. I told you all along that Self knew, he let adidas and Gassnola cheat for him and Kansas to insulate himself should it be discovered.

The only problem was Bill Self never ever thought the freaking FBI would get involved, no way he could have foresaw that. Self thought the simple minded NCAA would never get his texts, FBI you cheating pos.
 
Gassnola said to Self in a text that he let him down on Deandre, obviously meaning Ayton. So if Gassnola missing on paying Ayton then that means Arizona won the bid for Ayton. He’s not going to Arizona for free when Kansas lost the bid, UK and Cal backed off Ayton. :smiley:
 
That's a weak "hit". I want and expect to see more of a 2 year complete men's basketball ban, followed by 2 more years of allowed basketball, but no post season.
I think your suggestion will be close to what they get......They will also lose scholarships......They will want to move back to the MVC so they can be competitive........
 
Here is how it works, from Gary Parrish:



. . .

What that exchange features is Gassnola essentially promising Self that he'll help him land five-star prospects because Kansas is Adidas' biggest basketball program and what's good for Kansas is good for Adidas. Gassnola assures Self he will deliver because he's never previously let him down -- except for that time with Deandre Ayton, the five-star center who enrolled at Arizona, a Nike school, even though Gassnola paid one of Ayton's friends $15,000, according to testimony last week. And Self welcomes the help from Adidas because, he believes, North Carolina and Duke get similar help from Nike. So does Kentucky, Gassnola proclaims.

Simply put, this has been college basketball for a while.

Self was right.

That's how it works.

Now do I have proof that Nike has paid prospects to go to Nike schools, or that Under Armour has paid prospects to go to Under Armour schools? No. (The feds might, though.) But what I do know is that coaches have long believed both Nike and Under Armour assist Nike and Under Armour schools in recruiting exactly the same way it's been proven Adidas assisted Kansas, NC State and Louisville in recruiting.

Self's texts are evidence of that.

And this is a point I've made for over a year now -- since the day Jim Gatto, Merl Code, Christian Dawkins and seven other men were charged with federal crimes via an ongoing investigation into corruption in college basketball -- the point that shoe-company assistance, regardless of what's right or wrong, was largely considered acceptable behavior in the sport before the government said it's not.

That's the truth.

It might sound crazy now, I know. But the perception of shoe-company involvement in recruiting was so prevalent in recent years that I rarely heard a coach complain publicly or even privately about losing a so-called Nike kid to a so-called Nike school, or a so-called Under Armour kid to a so-called Under Armour school, or a so-called Adidas kid to a so-called Adidas school, even when the coach believed a shoe company had compensated a family in violation of NCAA rules. It was, more or less, for many, just considered part of the sport.

Again, Self's texts underline that point.

Why did he want Gassnola working for Kansas? Because, he believed, somebody at Nike was working for Duke and North Carolina. And why was Gassnola so anxious to help Kansas? Because, he believed, somebody at Nike was also helping Kentucky.

That's four blue-blood programs with Hall of Fame coaches.

"That's how [it] works," Self texted Gassnola.

Yep.

That's. How. It. Works.
You cheat, get caught, try to deny but you have texts to refute your claim then you pay the price with probation, loss of scholarships, vacate wins and Big 12 titles.

That’s. How. It. Works.
 
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I can believe Self didn’t know about the specific payments to each player but to suggest he didn’t know generally that this guy was paying recruits to go Kansas is a little far fetched after today.

If he didn’t know about the individual payments, it was willful ignorance. Self and Townsend set it up so that he wouldn’t know the specifics.
 
I can believe Self didn’t know about the specific payments to each player but to suggest he didn’t know generally that this guy was paying recruits to go Kansas is a little far fetched after today.

He knew when the investigation took place that kept Preston from playing. Yet somehow forgot two months later when they got DeSousa lol. Uh huh sure

If I got caught giving your son a duffle bag of drugs ... and two months later I handed him another duffle bag.... would you check that bag for drugs?
 
He knew when the investigation took place that kept Preston from playing. Yet somehow forgot two months later when they got DeSousa lol. Uh huh sure

If I got caught giving your son a duffle bag of drugs ... and two months later I handed him another duffle bag.... would you check that bag for drugs?
Kind of what I’m saying. Except it’s more like I know that you give my son drugs in duffle bags, but I don’t know what you give him or when. And I’m sure as heck not checking the bag if it means he isn’t asking me for gas money all the time.
 
There is no proof Nike does the same .. just adidas guys saying Nike does

There no proof because this is a trial for adidas. Merl Code Jr worked at Nike at a high level position dealing with grassroots basketball. He then left Nike for Adidas and continued the same type of work. You are being extremely naive if you think he wasn't doing the same exact stuff at Nike. Under armor is doing the same thing. This is how the shoe companies and AAU basketball works. I've also had enough time around high level AAU to see how corrupt those circuits are. People who have coached or been around AAU basketball know exactly what I mean
 
There no proof because this is a trial for adidas. Merl Code Jr worked at Nike at a high level position dealing with grassroots basketball. He then left Nike for Adidas and continued the same type of work. You are being extremely naive if you think he wasn't doing the same exact stuff at Nike. Under armor is doing the same thing. This is how the shoe companies and AAU basketball works. I've also had enough time around high level AAU to see how corrupt those circuits are. People who have coached or been around AAU basketball know exactly what I mean

Nike has so many top 20 programs that do you think they could afford to push kids to one school at the risk of p*ssing off the other nike schools?

of course nike pays kids to keep them loyal for when they can sign contracts.... but I've always been told Nike will tell a kid they need him to go to a nike school but dont choose for the kid which nike school
 
There no proof because this is a trial for adidas. Merl Code Jr worked at Nike at a high level position dealing with grassroots basketball. He then left Nike for Adidas and continued the same type of work. You are being extremely naive if you think he wasn't doing the same exact stuff at Nike. Under armor is doing the same thing. This is how the shoe companies and AAU basketball works. I've also had enough time around high level AAU to see how corrupt those circuits are. People who have coached or been around AAU basketball know exactly what I mean
Well, a UConn fan would certainly be an expert in recent-era NCAA cheating. But I think I’ll wait until at least a plausible allegation emerges to assume Kentucky is as dirty as UConn, UNC or Kansas.
 
Kansas basketball, 1988[edit]
Shortly after Kansas won a national title in 1988, the Jayhawks were found guilty of numerous NCAA violations. The NCAA had opened an investigation in 1986 after receiving a confidential tip. The most serious violations occurred in the summer of 1986, when potential Memphis State transfer Vincent Askew (who ultimately never transferred) was given cash for plane tickets, clothes, an electric bill for his grandmother, and a no-show job by then-Kansas head coach Larry Brown and three other individuals whom the NCAA considered to be boosters. One of the boosters, former Kansas player Mike Marshall, admitted to Sports Illustrated, but not to NCAA investigators, that he had provided small loans to several Kansas players, including Danny Manning, the centerpiece of the 1988 championship team.[23]

When issuing its findings, the NCAA indicated that it had nearly given Kansas a death penalty; the Jayhawks basketball program was eligible for the penalty because Kansas football had been found guilty of major violations in 1983.[23] At the time, David Berst, then NCAA enforcement director, said when asked whether the Jayhawks were eligible for the death penalty, "Kansas was on the bubble, so to speak."[24] However, Brown left Kansas immediately after the championship season to become head coach of the NBA's San Antonio Spurs.[24] The penalties ultimately issued included three years' probation and a postseason ban for the 1988–89 season, marking the first time an NCAA champion had been barred from defending its title.[23] The committee decided against imposing a death penalty because Askew was the only athlete who was proven to have received extra benefits, and because Brown was no longer employed at Kansas.[25]
 
Well, a UConn fan would certainly be an expert in recent-era NCAA cheating. But I think I’ll wait until at least a plausible allegation emerges to assume Kentucky is as dirty as UConn, UNC or Kansas.

Kentucky history of violations is far superior to any violations by UConn.

Someone just salty UConn prevented UK from 2 titles in the past 8 years
 
Cal hit a stretch starting around 2013-14 where we started missing on some of our top targets and it continued to get more noticeable the last few years. Obviously we know now that players were being bought and UK wasn’t having third parties buy because there’s no way players were picking Kansas and lesser schools if UK is getting help too.

Cal would not recruit players or suddenly back off without getting another commit. UK went from getting nearly anybody they wanted to missing on the top players, you know the couple of real guys that others inexplicably started pulling in.
 
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Prosecution doesn't want ANY COACH to testify because they're trying to prove the schools were harmed. The schools weren't harmed if head coaches were part of the conversations.

The defense is trying to prove that more people were involved and some head coaches were part of the process. I don't think they can subpoena Self , Pitino, etc...

My guess is that the government loses this case, but they'll be plenty evidence for NCAA if they decide to move ahead. Unfortunately, I don't expect NCAA to do anything but try to start over with new (toothless) guidelines. I don't think they have the stomach to respond to the current mess.

Spot on. Someone with intelligence

Notice when gassnola was asked what the two conversations were about he DOESNT REMEMBER
 
Kentucky history of violations is far superior to any violations by UConn.

Someone just salty UConn prevented UK from 2 titles in the past 8 years
Being stupid and a liar is no way to go through life dude !! Why are you even over here ? Oh let me guess UConn has no message board lol !!
 
Did a bit of reading on the Kansas forum tonight to see how they are receiving today’s news. For the vast majority, they are handling it just as UNC fans did when they were caught red-handed............................”everyone is doing it”.

And I can almost guarantee that many of the KU fans claiming this are some of the very same fans that made all manner of fun of UNC fans for trying to justify their school’s egregious behavior in this manner.

Does anyone have any self-awareness? And before any non-Kentucky fan scoffs at that question and tries to claim “UK fans certainly don’t”, please at least bring some proof of wrong-doing by Cal/UK to the table before you just spout off what is only your opinion and hope.

Having said that, I do hope that IF there is proof found that UK is involved in this same behavior, we don’t embarrass ourselves and try to justify it the way UNC fans have done and the way KU fans are now doing.
 
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8 titles bitch

Yet only 4 since 1978. UConn has 4 in the past 20 years (most in college basketball over past 20 years)

I'm perfectly happy with UConn success I'm not calling them the best in the country. I can accept other programs with richer, longer histories having more titles
 
Yet only 4 since 1978. UConn has 4 in the past 20 years (most in college basketball over past 20 years)

I'm perfectly happy with UConn success I'm not calling them the best in the country. I can accept other programs with richer, longer histories having more titles
8
 
Being stupid and a liar is no way to go through life dude !! Why are you even over here ? Oh let me guess UConn has no message board lol !!

It's facts not lies. Keep your head in the sand. Calhoun was sanctioned for text messages and phone calls which the NCAA later changed. An ex team manager who also happened to steal millions of dollars from Richard hamilton decided to pay for Nate Miles surgery and Calhoun got nailed for that because he was an ex team manager even though Calhoun had nothing to do with him.

Ollie violations are minor and just plain stupid on his part.

No point shaving, false act/sat scores or paying players (chris mills)

So yes Kentucky history of violations are worse
 
Did a bit of reading on the Kansas forum tonight to see how they are receiving today’s news. For the vast majority, they are handling it just as UNC fans did when they were caught red-handed............................”everyone is doing it”.
.
https://247sports.com/college/kansas/Board/103719/Contents/CBB-Corruption-Trial-122765023/?Page=29

WestSideJayhawk said... (original post)

So far there is not conclusive evidence that KU coaches knew about the payments. That's not even the goal here anyway - it's to create a possibility or probability that KU coaches knew about (and encouraged) payment to De Sousa, because this would create a reasonable doubt about whether the defendants defrauded KU.

Other hot takes:

- We need to slow this down a bit. KU coaches being aware that guys like Gassnola can influence a decision (with or without money being involved) doesn't necessarily mean that they knew about or were involved with specific payments. It's likely that they (and lots of coaches at lots of schools) do, but that hasn't necessarily been established here. It seems like they are essentially saying: "make it happen, but I don't want to know how the sausage gets made."

- Why does it feel like KU is the one on trial here, and not the defendants or other schools? Only KU seems to matter, at least right now. What happened to the promise of evidence of the "astronomical" amount of money offered by Oregon?

- I have no idea why Coach Self is texting or talking to TJ Gassnola-types at all, ever. If you have to communicate with this person about this type of thing, have an assistant (or some other random low-level person) do it. Self should be much better insulated from all of this.

- If it happens at KU, it's happening everywhere. I have very little patience for the self-righteousness of rival fans and schools - particularly ones from North Carolina or Kentucky.

- Thank God we never played Billy Preston.

- It seems like we've had an extended run of some questionable recruiting choices. Alexander, Diallo, Bragg, Preston, De Sousa. These guys have done relatively little for us, while Frank Mason, Devonte Graham, and Perry Ellis have carried us. Maybe its time to jettison the borderline guys.
 
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Yet only 4 since 1978. UConn has 4 in the past 20 years (most in college basketball over past 20 years)

I'm perfectly happy with UConn success I'm not calling them the best in the country. I can accept other programs with richer, longer histories having more titles

Villanova has 2 championships in the last 3 years. You're method would make them the best basketball program.

Schools have passionate fans, but you can't hand select a period of time where your program succeeded while ignoring the other years and expect rational readers to agree with you.

But ... part of being a fan involves throwing rationality out the window ; -)

Peace. (Btw - I agree that UConn had a good run. But, that's what it was ... "A good run." Seriously hope you get it back. I love SEC teams, but as a basketball fan I miss UConn, Syracuse & Georgetown games having national significance.)
 
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WestSideJayhawk said... (original post)

So far there is not conclusive evidence that KU coaches knew about the payments. That's not even the goal here anyway - it's to create a possibility or probability that KU coaches knew about (and encouraged) payment to De Sousa, because this would create a reasonable doubt about whether the defendants defrauded KU.

Other hot takes:

- We need to slow this down a bit. KU coaches being aware that guys like Gassnola can influence a decision (with or without money being involved) doesn't necessarily mean that they knew about or were involved with specific payments. It's likely that they (and lots of coaches at lots of schools) do, but that hasn't necessarily been established here. It seems like they are essentially saying: "make it happen, but I don't want to know how the sausage gets made."

- Why does it feel like KU is the one on trial here, and not the defendants or other schools? Only KU seems to matter, at least right now. What happened to the promise of evidence of the "astronomical" amount of money offered by Oregon?

- I have no idea why Coach Self is texting or talking to TJ Gassnola-types at all, ever. If you have to communicate with this person about this type of thing, have an assistant (or some other random low-level person) do it. Self should be much better insulated from all of this.

- If it happens at KU, it's happening everywhere. I have very little patience for the self-righteousness of rival fans and schools - particularly ones from North
WestSideJayhawk said... (original post)

So far there is not conclusive evidence that KU coaches knew about the payments. That's not even the goal here anyway - it's to create a possibility or probability that KU coaches knew about (and encouraged) payment to De Sousa, because this would create a reasonable doubt about whether the defendants defrauded KU.

Other hot takes:

- We need to slow this down a bit. KU coaches being aware that guys like Gassnola can influence a decision (with or without money being involved) doesn't necessarily mean that they knew about or were involved with specific payments. It's likely that they (and lots of coaches at lots of schools) do, but that hasn't necessarily been established here. It seems like they are essentially saying: "make it happen, but I don't want to know how the sausage gets made."

- Why does it feel like KU is the one on trial here, and not the defendants or other schools? Only KU seems to matter, at least right now. What happened to the promise of evidence of the "astronomical" amount of money offered by Oregon?

- I have no idea why Coach Self is texting or talking to TJ Gassnola-types at all, ever. If you have to communicate with this person about this type of thing, have an assistant (or some other random low-level person) do it. Self should be much better insulated from all of this.

- If it happens at KU, it's happening everywhere. I have very little patience for the self-righteousness of rival fans and schools - particularly ones from North Carolina or Kentucky.

- Thank God we never played Billy Preston.

- It seems like we've had an extended run of some questionable recruiting choices. Alexander, Diallo, Bragg, Preston, De Sousa. These guys have done relatively little for us, while Frank Mason, Devonte Graham, and Perry Ellis have carried us. Maybe its time to jettison the borderline guys.

The best response to that KU fan would be "you mad bro?"
 
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It's facts not lies. Keep your head in the sand. Calhoun was sanctioned for text messages and phone calls which the NCAA later changed. An ex team manager who also happened to steal millions of dollars from Richard hamilton decided to pay for Nate Miles surgery and Calhoun got nailed for that because he was an ex team manager even though Calhoun had nothing to do with him.

Ollie violations are minor and just plain stupid on his part.

No point shaving, false act/sat scores or paying players (chris mills)

So yes Kentucky history of violations are worse

And UConn’s are way more recent. Way to go back 35-60 years and 5-7 coaches ago.

UConn?
 
Thanks for contributing. Congratulations for being a fan of a program that cheated for decades then spent millions of dollars on this defense: "The NCAA can't touch us because putting a half-wit like Rashad McCants on our dean's list when he admitted he did zero work and attended zero classes, keeping Julius Peppers eligible when he failed every real class and so on is totally consistent with our standards of honor and academic rigor. And the NCAA can't tell us our pathetic, fraudulent standards aren't appropriate." Aren't you embarrassed by that, Wheels for Heels, Tami Hansborough, Will Graves, PJ Hairston, etc. Etc.?

It was a question. The poster didn't link the quote. I was asking them if it was this quote:

“I told Antonio, `You need to go to a place where you’re comfortable, with people I know, because I can’t call [North Carolina coach] Roy Williams, but I can call Cal,’ “ Gassnola says. Calipari and Kellogg did not respond to interview requests"
 
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