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Boogie a Warrior!

Klay is a weird guy though. He may not care. He has 3 rings, so the allure there is no where near the same as a player who has yet to win a ring. And who knows, maybe he takes a bit more money, but not a max deal, just to go with a different team that "could" contend.

His role has been severely reduced since KD got there.. and now with Cousins, it's even less touches he'll get.
 
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It's one thing to forgo a few million. But he'd be losing well over 7 figures to stay with GSW. He doesn't neccesarily have to go to a shit franchise. Remember the salary cap goes up next year.. all teams get a bit of extra wiggle room.

Had Houston not signed CP3, I'd have loved for Houston to grab him. I'd be fine with throwing him a max contract because 1. I do think he's worth it. 2 It hurts Golden State, the only team in Houston's way and 3. I think it very much hurts Steph's game.
I don't see him leaving GS to go to Houston. That's very Kevin Durant-ish. I think he's too pro GSW to slap them in the face like that.
Besides, if he were to go to Houston, he'd play the exact same roll he is now with Golden State. He would be riding Harden and Paul's coat tails.
I just don't see him getting a max deal from a contender, but it's the NBA and the NBA is gonna NBA.
 
The way the warriors are wheeling and dealing, he'll certainly have to go elsewhere to get a max deal and I have to believe he'll end up getting that max deal at a bottom feeder franchise.

I think he is an exceptional player, I'm not saying he sucks. I just don't think he has the ability to carry a team with average talent to and through the playoffs.

I'll repeat what I said to lineski, take Lebron off the 17/18 Cavaliers and put Klay in his place, do you think that team makes the playoffs? I don't. I just don't think Klay has the ability to thrive if he is the featured player.
It's a valid question, but you can't underestimate what he brings to the Warriors. He's the best spot-up shooter in the game, meaning the ball doesn't ever really stick with him the way it does with other great scorers (like Durant and Curry). He's also very good on defense.

I'd compare him to James Worthy. Obviously a very, very different player, but like Thompson, Worthy wasn't the best player on a great team and didn't have an outstanding statistical profile, but was hugely important to the success of a great team.

And honestly, I think "carrying a team" is wildly overrated. It's a carryover from the Jordan era. Being an elite player with elite skills should be enough, if a player is on a team that can build wisely.
 
It's a valid question, but you can't underestimate what he brings to the Warriors. He's the best spot-up shooter in the game, meaning the ball doesn't ever really stick with him the way it does with other great scorers (like Durant and Curry). He's also very good on defense.

I'd compare him to James Worthy. Obviously a very, very different player, but like Thompson, Worthy wasn't the best player on a great team and didn't have an outstanding statistical profile, but was hugely important to the success of a great team.

And honestly, I think "carrying a team" is wildly overrated. It's a carryover from the Jordan era. Being an elite player with elite skills should be enough, if a player is on a team that can build wisely.
Agreed.
But if he gets a max deal, he's going to be expected to pull a hell of a lot more weight for whichever team he goes to. Maybe we don't call it "carrying a team", but it's going to be something close to that.
 
The same ones celebrating this would have slammed LeBron if he did this.

It's crazy to me that in all this, Lebron is still most hated, and people STILL seem to be focusing on him, despite what Golden State, and Durant, and Boogie, and the rest of the team have done under everyone's noses.

Say what you will about Lebron's Super Teams.. their value was always where it should be. No one was taking exuberant paycuts just to beat the 2nd and 3rd best teams.

If we hate Lebron for what he did.. how come the entire Golden State roster gets a pass? Curry and Company knew what they were doing enticing Durant when they were absolutely aware they couldn't afford him.
 
It's crazy to me that in all this, Lebron is still most hated, and people STILL seem to be focusing on him, despite what Golden State, and Durant, and Boogie, and the rest of the team have done under everyone's noses.

Say what you will about Lebron's Super Teams.. their value was always where it should be. No one was taking exuberant paycuts just to beat the 2nd and 3rd best teams.

If we hate Lebron for what he did.. how come the entire Golden State roster gets a pass? Curry and Company knew what they were doing enticing Durant when they were absolutely aware they couldn't afford him.
Golden State is not getting a pass though. Though not the same...LeBron is the best of his generation...he is the leader and he sets the standard. We love this new superteam model in college with the guys loving to play together in package deals...but why do they think its ok now? (Yes I know Wall/Boogie and Fab 5 predate Bron).

LeBron did his Big 3...hated at first...then won titles and everyone pretty much accepted it after the 2nd title and moved on. Durant isn't on LeBron's level...thought he did not want to be an afterthought that never won a title so he took the easiest path to a title.

You talk about how this Boogie/Durant thing is different and its not good for competition....yet LeBron teams up with 2 other all-stars for 7 seasons in the east(did not count this year) and gets to all 7 Finals with little resistance...and that was fair and good for the NBA??? I mean Miami had 3 of the top 5 players in the East those first 3 seasons and no one else in the East has any real top 10 players in the league...but yet that was fair? No other team could touch the best player in the league with 2 all stars, but that was competitive?

LeBron started it
Durant took advantage of it
and now Boogie broke the system
 
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Nah doofy, I said they didnt have enough cap space to sign 2 max players because they didnt have enough cap space to sign 2 max players. You started crying and posting bleacher report articles. I simply stated a fact, you acted like a clown.
~SNIF~ your mommy said to get "offline" and go to bed. Stop arguing with everyone
 
It's crazy to me that in all this, Lebron is still most hated, and people STILL seem to be focusing on him, despite what Golden State, and Durant, and Boogie, and the rest of the team have done under everyone's noses.

Say what you will about Lebron's Super Teams.. their value was always where it should be. No one was taking exuberant paycuts just to beat the 2nd and 3rd best teams.

If we hate Lebron for what he did.. how come the entire Golden State roster gets a pass? Curry and Company knew what they were doing enticing Durant when they were absolutely aware they couldn't afford him.
idk but Durant has received plenty of flack for his move to GS. Probably not as much as Lebron but then again LBJ is a megastar.
 
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Golden State is not getting a pass though. Though not the same...LeBron is the best of his generation...he is the leader and he sets the standard. We love this new superteam model in college with the guys loving to play together in package deals...but why do they think its ok now? (Yes I know Wall/Boogie and Fab 5 predate Bron).

LeBron did his Big 3...hated at first...then won titles and everyone pretty much accepted it after the 2nd title and moved on. Durant isn't on LeBron's level...thought he did not want to be an afterthought that never won a title so he took the easiest path to a title.

You talk about how this Boogie/Durant thing is different and its not good for competition....yet LeBron teams up with 2 other all-stars for 7 seasons in the east(did not count this year) and gets to all 7 Finals with little resistance...and that was fair and good for the NBA??? I mean Miami had 3 of the top 5 players in the East those first 3 seasons and no one else in the East has any real top 10 players in the league...but yet that was fair? No other team could touch the best player in the league with 2 all stars, but that was competitive?

LeBron started it
Durant took advantage of it
and now Boogie broke the system

Lebron still did it, within the constraints of a salary cap (more or less, I don't care if a team's value is worth 10-15% more than what they pay is, that will happen from time to time).

We're really talking about two different things. Lebron formed super teams, but none of them had ever played together and it was entirely new. They also weren't "unbeatable". Golden state formed it's super teams by having players take far less money than what they were worth.

Imagine if the Lebron convinced CP3 to join the Heat, for 30-40% less than what he was making.. effectively doing something that none of the 29 teams could do. Imagine how good that Heat team would have been. Now, imagine the hatred that would come from it. It's a super team that's also circumventing the salary cap.
 
Klay is a weird guy though. He may not care. He has 3 rings, so the allure there is no where near the same as a player who has yet to win a ring. And who knows, maybe he takes a bit more money, but not a max deal, just to go with a different team that "could" contend.

His role has been severely reduced since KD got there.. and now with Cousins, it's even less touches he'll get.
Thompson’s minutes, ppg, rpg, & apg are essentially exactly what they were before KD got there. He’s always played off the ball. Curry has taken a reduced role since KD got there but I’d guess his efficiency numbers are up. Green has offensively too to an extent.
 
How would you know how Lebron "talked to" Kyrie? Has Kyrie ever said this? If so, can you link the quotes for us? Or do you have some insider locker room access that we're not aware of?

When the hell did Lebron supposedly "disappear" in those Finals? I might remind you that, in that finals, Lebron friggin averaged 29.7 points, 11.3 rebounds, 8.9 assists, 2.6 steals, 2.3 blocks (see link), and was absolutely clutch when his team needed him most. It was as impressive an all around Finals performance as we'll ever see. Now Kyrie was also mighty impressive, but certainly NOT because Lebron supposedly "disappeared."

And, fwiw, Lebron DID give plenty of credit to Kyrie. I remember his saying it.

Sorry, but if you're just gonna make up bullshit you can't support with evidence, then I can't take your words seriously.
Sincere ignorance or conscientious stupidity? I'm going with the latter.

Its like convincing God exists to an athiest with some of you guys.

- Common knowledge their relationship was very bad. Go back and watch their interactions during 2016 or do a simple google search. Kyrie wanted out all season long. Not a long list of players out there wanting to play w James.

- Kyrie, not James had the ball in his hands game 7, 89 to 89 1min left. Kyrie comes off a screen, isos Curry, knocks down 3. Game winner. Post game, Lebron comments...I,me, I,me, I, myself, etc. Once again, do a google search.







-
 
Its like convincing God exists to an athiest with some of you guys.

- Common knowledge their relationship was very bad. Go back and watch their interactions during 2016 or do a simple google search. Kyrie wanted out all season long. Not a long list of players out there wanting to play w James.

- Kyrie, not James had the ball in his hands game 7, 89 to 89 1min left. Kyrie comes off a screen, isos Curry, knocks down 3. Game winner. Post game, Lebron comments...I,me, I,me, I, myself, etc. Once again, do a google search.







-

I'm sure some of it is on Lebron.. He could say/do nothing but the media attention on him is just too great. DOesn't matter what he does, everyone looks to him, even IF Kyrie is hitting game winners.

Meanwhile, there's already rumors Kyrie is tiring of Boston and may look at the New York Knicks. He seems to want to be the man and have his own team entirely revolved around him.

I think both are to blame for how that went down. Kyrie was also kind of a bitch about it, IIRC. He handles it like a woman.
 
Thompson’s minutes, ppg, rpg, & apg are essentially exactly what they were before KD got there. He’s always played off the ball. Curry has taken a reduced role since KD got there but I’d guess his efficiency numbers are up. Green has offensively too to an extent.

His usage HAS declined, although not as much as I thought it would have. There are some game though, where you forget he's even on the team.

Curry is pretty much right on par. He puts up less shots with Durant, but he still is the PG, and still has the ball in his hands every single possession. Curry's injury also didn't make things easy on him this year.
 
People are delusional if they think KD didn’t catch flack when he left OKC for GS. He is still getting bashed for it.

You can bash the Individual player but you can’t bash a team for wanting to get better .
 
Lebron still did it, within the constraints of a salary cap (more or less, I don't care if a team's value is worth 10-15% more than what they pay is, that will happen from time to time).

We're really talking about two different things. Lebron formed super teams, but none of them had ever played together and it was entirely new. They also weren't "unbeatable". Golden state formed it's super teams by having players take far less money than what they were worth.

Imagine if the Lebron convinced CP3 to join the Heat, for 30-40% less than what he was making.. effectively doing something that none of the 29 teams could do. Imagine how good that Heat team would have been. Now, imagine the hatred that would come from it. It's a super team that's also circumventing the salary cap.
Did not say it was the same thing...but it was the same mindset.

The Heat had a pretty good team...a playoff team with a Finals MVP who was a top 3 player in the NBA at the time....ad the best player in the league to that roster and a top 5 player in the conference and you're set.

Of course KD's was way more extreme...but I hold LeBron to a different standard. All the time we are told "KD is nowhere close to LeBron" so that's the mindset I have.

But what you cannot explain is that LeBron for 7 of the 8 years had 3 of the top 5 players in his conference on 1 team and won it every year....but I'm sure the "lack of competition and parity" in the East those years were a good thing.

I mean the "Old Big 3 Celtics", Roy Hibbert PG13 Pacers, and Al Horford Hawks easily were good enough to compete with LeBron/Wade/Bosh....

I hate the Warriors because it has led to a lack of competition...and I hated LeBron's Big 3 teams for the same reason. But 50 years from now....LeBron will be remembered as a top 3 all time player and KD will be an all-time great. Both will be remembered as Champs and the superteam stuff will fade into oblivion.
 
Did not say it was the same thing...but it was the same mindset.

The Heat had a pretty good team...a playoff team with a Finals MVP who was a top 3 player in the NBA at the time....ad the best player in the league to that roster and a top 5 player in the conference and you're set.

Of course KD's was way more extreme...but I hold LeBron to a different standard. All the time we are told "KD is nowhere close to LeBron" so that's the mindset I have.

But what you cannot explain is that LeBron for 7 of the 8 years had 3 of the top 5 players in his conference on 1 team and won it every year....but I'm sure the "lack of competition and parity" in the East those years were a good thing.

I mean the "Old Big 3 Celtics", Roy Hibbert PG13 Pacers, and Al Horford Hawks easily were good enough to compete with LeBron/Wade/Bosh....

I hate the Warriors because it has led to a lack of competition...and I hated LeBron's Big 3 teams for the same reason. But 50 years from now....LeBron will be remembered as a top 3 all time player and KD will be an all-time great. Both will be remembered as Champs and the superteam stuff will fade into oblivion.
The Heat were a playoff team but they were the 8th seed in the East they were not good really . I’m sith you though Lebron still had that mindset that you are talking about by teaming up with Wade and Bosh. It’s not as bad as KD but he still created a super team
 
People are delusional if they think KD didn’t catch flack when he left OKC for GS. He is still getting bashed for it.

You can bash the Individual player but you can’t bash a team for wanting to get better** .

**by grabbing players for cheap, something that no other team is able to do.

I love how you guys still don't think GSW is operating on a pretty unfair advantage. Look, that's great. cheer for them. I would if Houston was doing this.

But Jesus Christ.. to sit here and act like you don't have a clear advantage and all your doing is "just making a super team like others have done" is hysterically naive.

You're literally getting players on terms that only Golden State can offer. This is exactly why the Salary Cap was put in place. There should never be a scenario where 10 other teams offer a player 30-40% more money and he turns it down. Yes I get it's "their" choice, but that has NEVER been my issue with this... It's the NBA, they has a business need to keep the league SOMEWHAT fair.

KD and GSW are playing by the rules put in place. And that's fine. My point is that it's come time to change those rules.
 
**by grabbing players for cheap, something that no other team is able to do.

I love how you guys still don't think GSW is operating on a pretty unfair advantage. Look, that's great. cheer for them. I would if Houston was doing this.

But Jesus Christ.. to sit here and act like you don't have a clear advantage and all your doing is "just making a super team like others have done" is hysterically naive.

You're literally getting players on terms that only Golden State can offer. This is exactly why the Salary Cap was put in place. There should never be a scenario where 10 other teams offer a player 30-40% more money and he turns it down. Yes I get it's "their" choice, but the NBA also has a business need to keep the league SOMEWHAT fair.
Outside of Boogie what player did Gs sign that was cheap? All the guys they signed for cheap until cousins have been role players prettt much .

And let’s not act like Boogie signed for cheap because he wanted to be a Warrior from the get go. No team offered him what he wanted so he did what he did .
 
Outside of Boogie what player did Gs sign that was cheap? All the guys they signed for cheap until cousins have been role players prettt much .

And let’s not act like Boogie signed for cheap because he wanted to be a Warrior from the get go. No team offered him what he wanted so he did what he did .

uhh. Durant.. For 3 years now he's been making roughly 30% less than what his value is. He knows this. And he knows that he would never take NEAR that deal for ANY other team. That's the problem. And Boogie just did the same thing.

Again, and I can't state this enough.. GSW, KD, Boogie and fans are perfectly fine to do this and support it. It's just that it's time to address taking such large paycuts. The NBA can't have this.
 
uhh. Durant.. For 3 years now he's been making roughly 30% less than what his value is. He knows this. And he knows that he would never take NEAR that deal for ANY other team. That's the problem. And Boogie just did the same thing.

Again, and I can't state this enough.. GSW, KD, Boogie and fans are perfectly fine to do this and support it. It's just that it's time to address taking such large paycuts. The NBA can't have this.
Bron has taken pay cuts too right ? Didn’t all 3 take a pay cut to go to Miami ?
 
Bron has taken pay cuts too right ? Didn’t all 3 take a pay cut to go to Miami ?

They did not to the extent that Durant/Boogie did. Now, I'd be glad to explore this. I don't like Super teams, but if they're under the Cap (Again, more or less.. 10-15% isn't a huge deal).. then I'm OK with it.
 
I hate the warriors. This doesn’t help me any. Happy for DeMarcus, but that’s about it.
 
Bron has taken pay cuts too right ? Didn’t all 3 take a pay cut to go to Miami ?
You are correct, D-Wade took a big cut and never got what he deserved to facilitate the Big 3

And people act like LeBron wouldn't have taken a star like Boogie in Miami if they wanted to come at a reduced price...the opportunity wasn't there..

Paul George did not want to play with LeBron....Kyrie wanted to leave LeBron....but Boogie and KD wanted to join Golden State.
 
They did not to the extent that Durant/Boogie did. Now, I'd be glad to explore this. I don't like Super teams, but if they're under the Cap (Again, more or less.. 10-15% isn't a huge deal).. then I'm OK with it.
I don’t teally get the outage for Boogie though . There wasn’t really a market for him .
 
You are correct, D-Wade took a big cut and never got what he deserved to facilitate the Big 3

And people act like LeBron wouldn't have taken a star like Boogie in Miami if they wanted to come at a reduced price...the opportunity wasn't there..

Paul George did not want to play with LeBron....Kyrie wanted to leave LeBron....but Boogie and KD wanted to join Golden State.
The Paul George situation was just weird . I don’t get why he handled that whole situation .

I believe Kyrie wanted out from Lebron because of how the media treated him with Lebron . It’s almost like they looked at Bron as his father instead of a teammate/leader
 
You are correct, D-Wade took a big cut and never got what he deserved to facilitate the Big 3

And people act like LeBron wouldn't have taken a star like Boogie in Miami if they wanted to come at a reduced price...the opportunity wasn't there..

Paul George did not want to play with LeBron....Kyrie wanted to leave LeBron....but Boogie and KD wanted to join Golden State.

I'd like to see what exactly he gave up. ANd whatever he did give up, ( I can't imagine it's anywhere near what Durant/Boiogie did), he did it to stay with his team..

But I still would like to see. If the Heat's true value was 40-50% more than what the salary was, I disagree with that. Has nothing to do with the teams either.. don't care if it's my team, the Knicks, or GSW. You simply can't have teams with that much difference in salary/value before it hurts the game.
 
I'd like to see what exactly he gave up. ANd whatever he did give up, ( I can't imagine it's anywhere near what Durant/Boiogie did), he did it to stay with his team..

But I still would like to see. If the Heat's true value was 40-50% more than what the salary was, I disagree with that. Has nothing to do with the teams either.. don't care if it's my team, the Knicks, or GSW. You simply can't have teams with that much difference in salary/value before it hurts the game.
Now this below was 2014 when he took a cut to keep LeBron (failed) and keep Bosh. I'll try and find the other figures...but he was never the highest paid player on the Heat during his time...and being that they had his rights...he def took a big cut for Bosh and Bron to sign.

http://www.espn.com/nba/truehoop/mi...54/dwyane-wade-agrees-new-contract-miami-heat

The Heat did not disclose terms of the deal, but sources said Wade received a two-year, $31.1 million deal with a player option for the second year. Wade also received a no-trade clause in his contract, sources told ESPN.com's Marc Stein.

The sources said Wade took about an $11 million pay cut over two years from the deal he opted out of, which was for two years and $42 million.
 
But I still would like to see. If the Heat's true value was 40-50% more than what the salary was, I disagree with that. Has nothing to do with the teams either.. don't care if it's my team, the Knicks, or GSW. You simply can't have teams with that much difference in salary/value before it hurts the game.
Should Bama have a cap on 5 star recruits that won't start day 1?

I mean Mac Jones was set to be our QB...but Bama thought he'd be a good 3rd option just in case....

Bama is running wild all over CFB...are they bad for the game?

We already have good talent up and down the roster in basketball...maybe we should send Hagans and EJ Montgomery to Georgia to make it a little more fair to those guys. I mean UK winning the SEC every year isn't fair and we continue to add the best players too. Not good for the league and the game...
 
Here's more numbers for Klay Thompson: 363-129.

That's the Warriors record since he became a starter in his 2nd season. Along with, obviously, the 3 titles.

Whatever Thompson's individual stats, it's a fact that he's been one of the best players on one of the best teams in NBA history. Someone will give him a max contract without batting an eye, if that's what he wants (because he might need to leave the Warriors to get it).

I think Klay is now about the most underrated player in the entire League.

The Warriors' other stars have gotten so much attention that people forget that Klay is a star too, and one capable of putting up superstar numbers if he played on another team where he was his team's No. 1 offensive option, instead of in this strange situation where a guy with superstar-number capability is merely his team's third (and now maybe fourth) offensive option behind two MVP caliber superstars in Curry and Durant.

Plus, folks forget that Klay is also a tremendous defensive player. One of the best defenders in the League in addition to being one of the best shooters in the world. He's a superb all around player with no clear flaws, and the perfect attitude for the unique situation he's in.
 
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Ugh.

They don't have to afford anything. GSW was the first team to get a player to take less. Demarcus sees an easy ring. Take it now.

The Lakers and many others could have doubled that offer for one year and seen how he recovered. GSW are just smart as hell. Now he can relax and come back in the second half of the season and be ready for the playoffs.
 
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Should Bama have a cap on 5 star recruits that won't start day 1?

I mean Mac Jones was set to be our QB...but Bama thought he'd be a good 3rd option just in case....

Bama is running wild all over CFB...are they bad for the game?

We already have good talent up and down the roster in basketball...maybe we should send Hagans and EJ Montgomery to Georgia to make it a little more fair to those guys. I mean UK winning the SEC every year isn't fair and we continue to add the best players too. Not good for the league and the game...

Can't compare college atheletics, especially basketball where the talent is here for 6 months.. to the NBA.. which employs multi-year contracts and has 7-game series.

I get people trying to compare this to Kentucky, but it falls wildly short. It's just not the same thing.


Now this below was 2014 when he took a cut to keep LeBron (failed) and keep Bosh. I'll try and find the other figures...but he was never the highest paid player on the Heat during his time...and being that they had his rights...he def took a big cut for Bosh and Bron to sign.

http://www.espn.com/nba/truehoop/mi...54/dwyane-wade-agrees-new-contract-miami-heat

I'll do some digging. If that Heat team was worth 25%+ than what they were paid, then I disagree with that. I just don't recall it was that large of an amount, but maybe I'm wrong.
 
Because Boogie signed only a one year deal for peanuts. The Warriors are getting an All Star center for the price of an end of bench scrub.

The NBA's competitive model is so broken. No chance of there ever being competitive balance if stars are gonna sign deals like these just so that they can play on de facto all star teams for easy rings.

Its not broken. All the other players could take less and do the same but they want to maximize their income. If Cousins didn't have such a bad injury je would jave never Signed a deal like this. Thank.all the other 29 teams for being Pansies and not putting up a deal to keep him frm GSW.
 
Can't compare college atheletics, especially basketball where the talent is here for 6 months.. to the NBA.. which employs multi-year contracts and has 7-game series.

I get people trying to compare this to Kentucky, but it falls wildly short. It's just not the same thing.




I'll do some digging. If that Heat team was worth 25%+ than what they were paid, then I disagree with that. I just don't recall it was that large of an amount, but maybe I'm wrong.
Look at the NBA....the same teams are winning pretty much every year
Look at College football....the same teams are winning every year
Look at College Hoops....The same teams are the best every year
Look at the NFL...some parity...but the same teams/QBs are on top every year.

Warriors and Cavs have played 4 straight finals and the league ratings have never been better...

The only sport with complete parity and new teams winning every year...?
The MLB and their ratings and national interest are going down every season.

Its not bad for the sport...thats a misconception and the ratings/profit proves it.

The Alabama comparison is true though...they win and compete for the title every year...and then reload with the clear #1 class...keep them for 3 years. Wash...rinse...repeat
 
Found Salary Information.

Wade took a $3million pay cut to go from 18 to 15 million in 2014/15, but he did it to try and entice Lebron. He did not take a pay cut before that (although he may have forgone possible earnings? I'd have to look). The Heat, at least not as far as Wade/Lebron are concerned, we're never grossly underpaid/undervalued.

Durant, as it turns out, didn't take a "paycut" either. However, he did forgo roughly $10m in value. He signed on for $26m/year when he garnered upwards of $37m/year.

I don't love what the Heat were ATTEMPTING to do, because it's not much different than Golden State. But a few differences.. 1. it never actually happened. 2. Wade was there from the start. 3. They lost the title that year anyways (to Spurs).
 
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