When considering all factors, and the effect of covid on children, it is easily safer for kids in school.
Andy Beshear - Not a fan of Science
- Thread starter goukcatsgo
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Same could be said for any people that have had to work during all this. Teachers aren’t the only ones who have to work during all this.
If someone doesn’t want to work don’t work. I don’t have a choice and I also don’t have a choice to get bombarded by property taxes much of which go to our education system that isn’t being fully utilized
I don't disagree but using conjecture as fact doesn't strengthen the case. You post a lot of useful information that shows sources, etc. and it has changed my thinking on a lot of it. I just hate seeing speculation get cited as fact when the consequences are so high. It confuses the issue and keeps us from making any real progress towards ending this collective nightmare.
Because F**k sanitation workers, retail workers, service providers, truck drivers, and landlords. They can all continue trying to hold it together while we pamper a bunch of whiny ass teachers union bitches.
Let's be honest - (some) teachers (unions) and Andy were acting like huge bitches in July/August with cases in the low hundreds, positivity rate below 4% and plenty of knowledge that children and people under 50 do very well against the virus.
They robbed many children of a quality 3.5 months in person school - and also blew all their community goodwill....MANY private schools operated flawlessly during this time, creating larger inequities.
If you refuse to operate during its endemic out of season state, there wont be much of a chance during the virus' fun season. With the explosion of testing, I'm not sure the numbers ever look better than they did in August - when Andy was pointing the finger laughing at Georgia and Mississippi. Big pickle he put himself in. January wont show lower numbers than August....so what will that explanation be?
They robbed many children of a quality 3.5 months in person school - and also blew all their community goodwill....MANY private schools operated flawlessly during this time, creating larger inequities.
If you refuse to operate during its endemic out of season state, there wont be much of a chance during the virus' fun season. With the explosion of testing, I'm not sure the numbers ever look better than they did in August - when Andy was pointing the finger laughing at Georgia and Mississippi. Big pickle he put himself in. January wont show lower numbers than August....so what will that explanation be?
But deaths haven't 🤔
Exactly. Andy got drunk on his power trip and list sight if reality. Cases during the summer will be lower no matter what you do, and cases will be higher during the colder months no matter what you do.
Now we've spent all our resources being bitches during the time we should have been preparing for winter. Get ready, it's going to get a lot worse economically.
Deaths are up slightly from a month ago as well per day. Regardless the positive cases don't immediately mean a spike in deaths. If it does cause a spike in deaths we wouldn't immediately see that. People don't die the second they become Covid-19 positive. That's common sense.
Deaths are still driven largely from Long term care facilities - the most locked down, tested and masked up places we have. 1500+ active cases currently....why would these general population restrictions perform any better? crazy!
Suicide, death by neglect, and death due to "failure to thrive" are skyrocketing in those facilities right now too. AP News just had a story on it this morning.
We always hear of how many “sacrificies” educators make to teach the future generations. Always was a bunch of bologna. Now a lot of them want to tuck tail and hide while demanding $125,000 a year.
Positive tests results started increasing back in the summer.
And still getting a defined benefit pension while only working 9 months a year.
There's some pretty compelling arguments it's literally safer for communities, in regards to covid spread, in school but of course we're years from actual studies because of how different each area is. So I see what you're saying but IMO it's the ultimate technicality.
With all the misinfo out there, even I got burned yesterday on it, I get what you're saying.
It would seem like we hit a bunch of the targets (therapeutics, vaccine, etc) we'd been shooting for and we need a smarter approach going forward. I'm still not getting on a cruise ship or airplane any time soon, but the total lockdown approach has to end. It's time for a scalpel not a chainsaw.
Yep. It isn't hard to understand. It's just like any other virus. It isn't going away because everyone stays inside. As soon as you go back out, ta-da. So, the sooner you get people out and about the sooner this is over. The more you shutdown, not only do you just prolong the inevitable, you destroy everything in the path of the shutdown.
Good. I've really appreciated your and a few others (GG) work on this here. I just hate when people skip over qualifying statements and take it as gospel and then try to dunk on people.
Exactly. At what point did educating our children become non-essential?!?!?
Again...where are the numbers exploding? I know because I have done my research. You obviously don't other than what Andy is force feeing you. His so called "surgical approach" is the equivalent of throwing a dart blindfolded and wherever it sticks becomes his latest exec order. He has zero basis for shutting down restaurants and schools.
You've done your research? I suppose Andy is force feeding information to the AP and NYT? Look I get it brother. You're angry and want to throw a temper tantrum and scream collusion. Its fine. You can do that but that doesn't change the fact that in Mid-October we were seeing 700 new cases a day and now we are seeing well over 2000.
Yes we were seeing between 300-800 new cases between late June and late August. We are now well over 2000 new cases a day. The deaths haven't gone up dramatically however we did see the most deaths in the state in a 2 day span the last 2 days. Definitely not insignificant and its dangerous for some to act as if this just came out of no where. We knew the cases and deaths would go back up during this time. This is why most of us prepared for this.
Ah yes I remember those days. Back in March. Two weeks to flatten the curve!
Also in July. Let's try masks for just 30 days to see if they work.
The only thing that will make Andy let go is he has to. That's it.
Take colleges for example. They're still allowed to go. UK had over 2500 cases per their dashboard. 300 active now. There haven't been 300 cases total from schools in the entire state. That doesn't even count the obvious that college kids will engage in much riskier behavior
Oh good. What was the total number of people newly infected with covid yesterday? How many of those were in captive populations?
I'll give you a hint - we don't know. The governor knows or could know but won't tell us. Instead we get to hear how many positive tests were returned. That includes repeat tests to rule out false positives, testing of already known sick people, and who knows what else. Better yet those numbers are 10-14 days behind.
So we'll never be told the actual number of new infections in a given day. That number is being withheld from us.
I don't understand why he refuses to answer any questions about anything of significance. He "read" an article about the spread might be coming from restaurants and bars but he has no hard evidence to support this. Instead he restricts them to the point of financially bankrupting them right before Christmas. Then on top of that he wants to try and control the people we have in our homes. If you are uncomfortable with that then either A. don't host gatherings or B. don't attend. He doesn't pay my mortgage. Not to mention the harm he is causing kids by jerking them around with the school decisions. I just hope when the legislature returns the GOP knocks him down a few notches. I hope everyone see's what a joke of a Governor he is and this is his ONLY term.
I didn't say flatten the curve. We aren't going to do that. That was never going to happen. These are all precautionary measures to mitigate the spread. Masks work I'm not getting into that. We wear them at work and are mandated by the base commander to do as such even at our desks sitting by ourselves. Its really not that difficult. Finally, I'm sure the Governor could know a lot of things. Its not our job to speculate and create scenarios to fulfill a narrative. It takes awhile for the numbers to come out and for specific information like that to be released. Its difficult to release specific details in a vacuum so I don't understand why you think it should be easier with an entire state.
Some people are just really good at being submissive.
It's absolutely our job to question our political leaders. It's their job to provide facts to back up drastic actions. Not hide those facts, if they exist at all.
The fact you, and many think otherwise speaks volumes.
By telling myself that the little bit I was able to do at the time probably wouldn't last very long and I'd have to mentally prepare for being stuck in the house with my kids while we were being told we couldn't return to work. Luckily I don't have to worry about the financial ramifications of this but I know of others who do with small businesses who were aware that at some point there would be restrictions in place and they were able to save up enough money to last a month or 2 without having to shut down for good.
Yes its our job to question their level of effectiveness and decision making but its not our job to create these scenarios that only fit your narrative. Some of us can question the decision without going off of the deep end and pretending this is some deep rooted issue that is being created by big government to steal our souls. Guess what? Andy could very well be making a poor decision by doing this and you know what? I'd say most of us would make a poor decision because its not likely any of this is going to be 100% effective. Its a tough decision. Every leader across this great nation has screwed up along the way. This isn't exactly something we go through every year.
We all should have saved better - Ryan Bruner
You are wrong. There is overwhelming evidence that school settings are far safer than the general public. Hell, even the New York Times acknowledges it. Initially, there was not enough data to know where the virus spreads and where it doesn't.
School settings, because of the protocols being taken (masks, hand washing, sanitizing, social distancing) along with the fact that children are not as likely to become infected and are not as contagious, should NOT be closed. This is not an opinion, it's a fact backed up by data and science. The study I linked is one of MANY that have been conducted around the world.
When you weigh the known risks of kids not being in school against the risk of virus spread, it's an even more overwhelming argument against closing schools.
He's lost in his echo chamber.
Great analysis there brother. I know it only took you 35 minutes to figure out where the hyphen was on your keyboard.
The data and statistics do not back up ANYTHING you are saying regarding the spread in schools. You are wrong.
In terms of the issues with teachers and subs. You are correct. When schools have become strained with teachers out due to quarantine (they aren't becoming infected at school. There is data to back that up) then the schools close for a short period until the teachers come back off of quarantine.
For those who want the data and facts...
And again, it "can" spread it school. It does, but you have to compare it to society as a whole. It's far safer than society as a whole. The alternative to school is sending kids out to do whatever they want. The data says that is where spread is more likely. Not school.
Does school being in session accelerate spread? No. That's backed up all around the world.
These aren't Q or Breitbart studies. They're real science and left leaning news agencies are agreeing with them. Our governor is one of the few leaders in the developed world who thinks schools need to be the first things to close. He's wrong and he's on an island. He isn't following the science or the data.
PS: I agree with most of the rest of the order from yesterday. There is science to backup that events, restaurants and bars accelerate the spread. It's not as definitive as the science and data that backs up keeping schools open, but there is data that suggests those events and settings accelerate the spread. I don't like it and I think he should have tried limiting capacity first, but closing schools was the LAST thing he should have tried. He tried it first. He's wrong.
chicago.suntimes.com
www.bloomberg.com
www.aamc.org
And again, it "can" spread it school. It does, but you have to compare it to society as a whole. It's far safer than society as a whole. The alternative to school is sending kids out to do whatever they want. The data says that is where spread is more likely. Not school.
Does school being in session accelerate spread? No. That's backed up all around the world.
These aren't Q or Breitbart studies. They're real science and left leaning news agencies are agreeing with them. Our governor is one of the few leaders in the developed world who thinks schools need to be the first things to close. He's wrong and he's on an island. He isn't following the science or the data.
PS: I agree with most of the rest of the order from yesterday. There is science to backup that events, restaurants and bars accelerate the spread. It's not as definitive as the science and data that backs up keeping schools open, but there is data that suggests those events and settings accelerate the spread. I don't like it and I think he should have tried limiting capacity first, but closing schools was the LAST thing he should have tried. He tried it first. He's wrong.
Wisconsin study: High school sports have not spread the coronavirus
A new study from the University of Wisconsin-Madison suggests that the state’s high school sports have not caused an increase in COVID-19 infections among athletes.
chicago.suntimes.com
School Children Don’t Spread Coronavirus, French Study Shows
School kids don’t appear to transmit the new coronavirus to peers or teachers, a French study found, weighing in on the crucial topic of children’s role in propagating Covid-19.
www.bloomberg.com
Kids, school, and COVID-19: What we know — and what we don’t
An emerging body of evidence suggests that young children do not spread the coronavirus easily. Does that mean it’s safe to bring them back to class?
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I'm neither going off the deep end nor am I creating scenarios.
If the governor has the numbers I mentioned, he'd show them. He doesn't. He admitted that upon a direct question yesterday.
If he doesn't have numbers to back his actions, he shouldn't act. It's that simple.
Yet a certain segment of the population, including you (who doesn't even live in ky) will lavish praise on him no matter what he does.
So tell me again who is creating a scenario to fit a narrative?
He was asked directly yesterday if he had data/contact tracing to back that up. He said he did not. So while that may be the case in some areas, here the contact tracing doesn't support it. If it did, we'd know it
Again this post was not about the restaurant and bars data. This is about education. Please stick to that.
There is real debate on weddings, church, events, bars and restaurants.
There is no debate on schools.
Italy for example, is doing all they can to keep middle and elementary schools open.
France is keeping all schools open.
England is approaching full lockdown, but they are keeping schools open.
Want more data?
www.sciencemag.org
There is real debate on weddings, church, events, bars and restaurants.
There is no debate on schools.
Italy for example, is doing all they can to keep middle and elementary schools open.
France is keeping all schools open.
England is approaching full lockdown, but they are keeping schools open.
Want more data?
Science | AAAS
www.sciencemag.org
This is easy: classrooms don't always have good ventilation and you are breathing collective air for like 50-60 minutes. Contrast that to other industry where there is more spacing or interpersonal interactions are MUCH more limited and/or shorter in terms of time. Some schools have had to quarantine like 100+ kids due to one case for this reason.
My bigger complaint on how all this has been handled is requiring teachers to do two jobs at once. You want to open schools? Fine with me, but you need to hire more teachers to reduce class sizes and then teachers to handle virtual sections. However, if one were to ask for money for these things this is the response.................
Silence.
