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Andy Beshear - Not a fan of Science

goukcatsgo

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You can debate whether or not shutting down mass gatherings, restaurants or bars slows the spread of covid. In fact, I think it probably does.

But the data and science actually shows that shutting schools down may accelerate it. It can now be reasonably argued that kids being in school is actually safer than the alternative of being able to go do whatever they want between 8-3.

Andy's mandate on shutting schools down might actually worsen the spread as a study in Wisconsin found virtually no actual spread in schools. Only cases found "because of school" that were acquired in "community settings"

I guess now we can all agree that leaders from both parties seem to not follow "science"

 
One thing in the Executive Order that on its surface seems arbitrary and capricious is allowing preschool students to continue to be able to attend PS/Daycare, allow elementary students to return Dec. 7 if not in a red county, but prohibit MS and HS to not return until Jan. 4, while colleges may continue in person.

Setting aside the content and merits of the EO, I don’t see a factual distinction for creating those tiers of in person instruction ... other than purely political/financial/social inconvenience reasonings. The Governor clearly has EO authority, as noted by the KY Supreme Court’s recent unanimous decision. However, those participation tiers seem to me to be clearly arbitrary and capricious.
 
So glad I dont have kids right now. I know many work from home so daycare hasnt been an issue. But many of yall may not have that option. What the hell were parents expected to do when they find out their kids arent going to school during the day? One parent just has to quit and they just figure the money out?
 
ok. So you just don’t comprehend.

i’ll restate. The governor of Kentucky does not believe the data or science that
The rest of the developed world does.


It’s not a true statement that “the rest of the developed world” is against student quarantine. Likewise, there are conflicting studies on the subject. So, to say someone is anti science based on one study or a handful of studies is kind of a superficial argument.

As initially stated, there might be some truth to the notion that the shutdowns do not help, but it’s not as cut and dry as you suggest and your insinuations of being anti science are a bit ridiculous.
 
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I don’t believe shutting down schools is to protect the kids. It’s to prevent spread to adults and general population. The fear from administrators is that winter gatherings indoors from the holidays will increase spread of virus as kids come back to school.


That’s also where there is a whole lot of ambiguity is on this subject.

There are also a whole lot of risk factors that go into the decision of shutting down schools. Obviously, if infection is higher in one area than another then there are very different circumstances.
 
I said this is another thread, but I'll reiterate it here:

First, kids don't just go to school by themselves. There are teachers, support staff, and admin that might be immunocompromised OR have families at home that have health conditions that make them susceptible to the virus. And Kentucky's teacher workforce is OLD, not robust and young. On top of that, some districts are refusing to make accommodations for these teachers. Every time my county has opened its schools there's been a surge. Now correlation is not causation, I know, but this happened three times.

Second, even if we went back to in-person I can tell you from what my wife tells me that school is not "the way it was." Social distancing is enforced (to what degree it can) and from what I've been told most kids are mask compliant. However, there is no group work, no small discussions, no walking around the rooms, etc. It is all simply "sit and get" instruction. On top of that, teachers are having to do two jobs this year for the price of one to supervise online and in-person students. Ridiculous request if you ask me, but districts aren't paying the money to handle the requests from parents for options. I would not be shocked if we see a lot of resignations and retirements at winter break or after this school year because the burnout is real. I shudder to think what that could do for the state because teachers are not graduating in large numbers like they were a decade or two ago from our state colleges.

And finally, if you do open up and teachers have to quarantine, who are you going to put in a classroom? From all the news I've been following on this, districts everywhere are struggling to get substitutes because they tend to be retired teachers or old. Well, guess what? Those people aren't subbing this year because of the health risks. So when you get teachers, admin, secretaries, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, etc. calling in sick or having to quarantine by order of the local health department you can't replace them. You can't run a school without personnel. One of our neighboring counties has had to shut twice for this very issue. Another had to terminate bus service for three weeks until they got enough drivers again. Now, schools could help this if they loosened some of their sub requirements but I believe the state DOE sets those so its been a hindrance.

This time period sucks for teachers, students, and parents. No getting around it. But there are a host of reasons why these reopening plans aren't going well.
 
Andy was asked point blank if he had data to show these areas were causing infections. He said no. We have nearly 1000 contact tracers. After months of data, still no mention of stats to support this.

Yesterday afternoon he released a video talking about a magazine article were it says bars and restaurants are a problem. So I guess that's as close as he has to anything scientific.

It's really unbelievable

My cousin and his wife are teachers. Within a week of schools opening 3 kids from her classroom tested positive for covid. Both my cousin and his wife caught it along with many others in the community. Covid was rare in this community until school opened back up. Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.

It was there just not caught by testing. It wasn't just hiding under the desks at school.
 
I’m interested in hearing from any teachers posting in this thread, is it realistic to punt on this school year and start over in the fall?

Sounds ridiculous on its face but my kids get very little from virtual “learning” and we are engaged parents that try to help as much as we can (finished school last night for two 7 year olds at 8:30)...I can’t imagine kids with less assistance and questionable home life.

There is no way these kids will be prepared to take on new learning material for a grade up assuming school is back to normal next year (I’ve obviously given up on that hope this year). I fear it’s just going to be a “pass everyone along” mentality whether they meet the standards or not.
 
You can debate whether or not shutting down mass gatherings, restaurants or bars slows the spread of covid. In fact, I think it probably does.

But the data and science actually shows that shutting schools down may accelerate it. It can now be reasonably argued that kids being in school is actually safer than the alternative of being able to go do whatever they want between 8-3.

Andy's mandate on shutting schools down might actually worsen the spread as a study in Wisconsin found virtually no actual spread in schools. Only cases found "because of school" that were acquired in "community settings"

I guess now we can all agree that leaders from both parties seem to not follow "science"


I’ve read a dozen articles from rags such as the NY Times saying the exact same thing- ESPECIALLY for elementary schools. I’m all about following the science- and you’re right, the schools should be open. I completely understand those enraged at Beshear.
 
Andy spent the summer months flexing his executive order muscles and living the high life on a power trip.

That is showing to be a terrible strategy. The virus was laying low during those months and hospitals were empty, now the curve is jumping back up and the governor is running out of ammunition to fight it.

I cant wait to see this bozo get whipped into submission by the legislature. His last three years are going to be a gridlocked dogfight and he brought it all on himself.
 
I’m interested in hearing from any teachers posting in this thread, is it realistic to punt on this school year and start over in the fall?

Sounds ridiculous on its face but my kids get very little from virtual “learning” and we are engaged parents that try to help as much as we can (finished school last night for two 7 year olds at 8:30)...I can’t imagine kids with less assistance and questionable home life.

There is no way these kids will be prepared to take on new learning material for a grade up assuming school is back to normal next year (I’ve obviously given up on that hope this year). I fear it’s just going to be a “pass everyone along” mentality whether they meet the standards or not.

I don't think it is a ridiculous proposal but I just don't think it will happen. There are going to be gaps, though, that schools will have to close, especially in areas where there's not a lot of parent support at home to close some of them. One big reason schools can't punt is the federal DOE has said there will be standardized testing this year. I imagine that the Biden team will be waiving that when they take over in January.

Going into this year, I was surprised we didn't see more districts punt the fall and try to do a different academic calendar. Problem there is teacher contracts end on July 1 (at least in the public system) so alterations are easier said than done.
 
You'll be okay. You knew this would happen across the country again. It sucks and its not fair but life isn't fair. They acknowledged that they'd need to open the schools back up completely as soon as possible. The numbers in Kentucky are exploding. This is reactionary. Eventually things will go back to normal. Don't act like an animal out of spite. Don't put others in danger and worry about your kids first and foremost. If we do those things this situation will work itself out.
 
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You'll be okay. You knew this would happen across the country again. It sucks and its not fair but life isn't fair. They acknowledged that they'd need to open the schools back up completely as soon as possible. The numbers in Kentucky are exploding. This is reactionary. Eventually things will go back to normal. Don't act like an animal out of spite. Don't put others in danger and worry about your kids first and foremost. If we do those things this situation will work itself out.

Reactionary....in other words, spinning the wheel to see what arbitrary order can be implemented.

Numbers are exploding? Where are they exploding, specifically?
 
My cousin and his wife are teachers. Within a week of schools opening 3 kids from her classroom tested positive for covid. Both my cousin and his wife caught it along with many others in the community. Covid was rare in this community until school opened back up. Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.
Your cousin probably gave it to the kids
 
I said this is another thread, but I'll reiterate it here:

First, kids don't just go to school by themselves. There are teachers, support staff, and admin that might be immunocompromised OR have families at home that have health conditions that make them susceptible to the virus. And Kentucky's teacher workforce is OLD, not robust and young. On top of that, some districts are refusing to make accommodations for these teachers. Every time my county has opened its schools there's been a surge. Now correlation is not causation, I know, but this happened three times.

Second, even if we went back to in-person I can tell you from what my wife tells me that school is not "the way it was." Social distancing is enforced (to what degree it can) and from what I've been told most kids are mask compliant. However, there is no group work, no small discussions, no walking around the rooms, etc. It is all simply "sit and get" instruction. On top of that, teachers are having to do two jobs this year for the price of one to supervise online and in-person students. Ridiculous request if you ask me, but districts aren't paying the money to handle the requests from parents for options. I would not be shocked if we see a lot of resignations and retirements at winter break or after this school year because the burnout is real. I shudder to think what that could do for the state because teachers are not graduating in large numbers like they were a decade or two ago from our state colleges.

And finally, if you do open up and teachers have to quarantine, who are you going to put in a classroom? From all the news I've been following on this, districts everywhere are struggling to get substitutes because they tend to be retired teachers or old. Well, guess what? Those people aren't subbing this year because of the health risks. So when you get teachers, admin, secretaries, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, etc. calling in sick or having to quarantine by order of the local health department you can't replace them. You can't run a school without personnel. One of our neighboring counties has had to shut twice for this very issue. Another had to terminate bus service for three weeks until they got enough drivers again. Now, schools could help this if they loosened some of their sub requirements but I believe the state DOE sets those so its been a hindrance.

This time period sucks for teachers, students, and parents. No getting around it. But there are a host of reasons why these reopening plans aren't going well.
Explain to me why those problems are considered for teachers/schools exclusively?
 
My cousin and his wife are teachers. Within a week of schools opening 3 kids from her classroom tested positive for covid. Both my cousin and his wife caught it along with many others in the community. Covid was rare in this community until school opened back up. Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.
I conclude the community was on the verge of an outbreak anyway since the data overwhelmingly shows K-12 schools aren't significant spreaders.
 
I don’t believe shutting down schools is to protect the kids. It’s to prevent spread to adults and general population. The fear from administrators is that winter gatherings indoors from the holidays will increase spread of virus as kids come back to school.
But that's a lie. And schools do take temps as kids enter. Now you want to delay reopening till Wed-Th after T-giving to see cases developing first, OK.
 
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I said this is another thread, but I'll reiterate it here:

First, kids don't just go to school by themselves. There are teachers, support staff, and admin that might be immunocompromised OR have families at home that have health conditions that make them susceptible to the virus. And Kentucky's teacher workforce is OLD, not robust and young. On top of that, some districts are refusing to make accommodations for these teachers. Every time my county has opened its schools there's been a surge. Now correlation is not causation, I know, but this happened three times.

Second, even if we went back to in-person I can tell you from what my wife tells me that school is not "the way it was." Social distancing is enforced (to what degree it can) and from what I've been told most kids are mask compliant. However, there is no group work, no small discussions, no walking around the rooms, etc. It is all simply "sit and get" instruction. On top of that, teachers are having to do two jobs this year for the price of one to supervise online and in-person students. Ridiculous request if you ask me, but districts aren't paying the money to handle the requests from parents for options. I would not be shocked if we see a lot of resignations and retirements at winter break or after this school year because the burnout is real. I shudder to think what that could do for the state because teachers are not graduating in large numbers like they were a decade or two ago from our state colleges.

And finally, if you do open up and teachers have to quarantine, who are you going to put in a classroom? From all the news I've been following on this, districts everywhere are struggling to get substitutes because they tend to be retired teachers or old. Well, guess what? Those people aren't subbing this year because of the health risks. So when you get teachers, admin, secretaries, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, etc. calling in sick or having to quarantine by order of the local health department you can't replace them. You can't run a school without personnel. One of our neighboring counties has had to shut twice for this very issue. Another had to terminate bus service for three weeks until they got enough drivers again. Now, schools could help this if they loosened some of their sub requirements but I believe the state DOE sets those so its been a hindrance.

This time period sucks for teachers, students, and parents. No getting around it. But there are a host of reasons why these reopening plans aren't going well.
Sh!t, let's just give up & disband schools.
 
My cousin and his wife are teachers. Within a week of schools opening 3 kids from her classroom tested positive for covid. Both my cousin and his wife caught it along with many others in the community. Covid was rare in this community until school opened back up. Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.
750k teachers, students, admin in the state. Don't believe we should shut it all down for 3-4 infections.

I'm sorry, a lot of this is unknown, but if you argue on the side of closing schools you're just wrong. Every bit of science proves they're safe and far better in class than out. Don't let your political fanaticism cloud what's the truth.
 
Reactionary....in other words, spinning the wheel to see what arbitrary order can be implemented.

Numbers are exploding? Where are they exploding, specifically?
Arbitrary maybe to someone who isn't paying attention or being blatantly ignorant to the actual numbers and cases to benefit whatever personal narrative they have sure. But in the last month the cases and positive numbers have nearly tripled.
 
But the data and science actually shows that shutting schools down may accelerate it. It can now be reasonably argued that kids being in school is actually safer than the alternative of being able to go do whatever they want between 8-3.

May accelerate. Hypothetical about the behavior of children. All conjecture. Yet a couple posts later you're citing it as fact. Not solid footing no matter what the feedback loop tells you. I don't get how some of you all are so skeptical of more established sources of information but then latch on to things like this statement.
 
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