Maravich, who by the way wasn't ALLOWED to play varsity in his freshman year, proceeded to average 50 points per game and then 44 for the next 3 years and that was PRE-THREE-POINT-LINE.
There are a lot of arguments about the greatest NBA player ever.
- Thread starter Creed Bratton
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I am 81 years old. I saw Wilt play in person at ;east 10 times while attending college in Boston. I played pickup against Oscar during the summer in Cincinnati at the old Fenwick Club. I believe players should be compared within their era using metrics comparing them to their peers within their era. Chamberlain was far and away more superior to his era than any other player in his era. Think Babe Ruth versus others in his era. Ruth hit more homers than many TEAMS!!. The only thing Wilt couldn't do was shoot free throws. For his part, Oscar was a fantastic player who made everyone around him better.If I were picking a team I would choose Oscar, Jordan, LBJ, Bird and Wilt. The team has three great passers, two great shooters, two great drivers and the greatest rebounder and shot blocker in history plus two of the greatest on ball defenders in history (Jordan and LBJ. BTW, I attended the 7th game of the NBA finals in 1957 one of the 10 greatest games of all time won by the Celts when Russell scored the winning basket in overtime and the blocked a shot by the Hawks to seal the victory.
No. Thats what makes LeBron so damn good. He's past his physical prime and still dominating. His ball handling and passing are as elite as they get. LeBron knows each of his teammates preferred methods of receiving the ball and can pinpoint get the ball to them each time exactly as they want it. One of his teammates went over it a few years back. If you want the ball with the seams horizontal, you got it. Chest level off the bounce? Got it. Leading to your dominant hand? Done. He's a genius on the court. He will continue do dominate as his athleticism disappears because he's that good whether you hate him or not. Whether he's 6'9 and 255lbs with a 40 inch vertical or 6'5 and 200lbs with a 30 inch vertical, he's insane.
That's like saying MJ couldn't have done what he did at 6'1. Great players are great beyond measurable. If how big or athletic you were mattered, guys like Javale Mcgee would be NBA legends.
Yeah Maravich was incredible. So was Oscar. Pete broke Oscar's all time NCAA scoring record and he also played under the same rules (obviously).
Pete averaged 44-6-5 over 83 games at LSU shooting 44%.
Oscar 34-15-7 over 88 games at UC shooting 54%.
Both incredible stats.
And how many championships did Wilt win? How well did his team do against Russell's team for that matter?
It's like saying Pistol Pete is the GOAT in college basketball because he has stats no one will ever touch.
Wilt has other worldy stats but has two rings to show for it. LeBron has the 3 rings and people say he's not the GOAT because of that, the same can be said for Wilt then.
The only two players who have the combination of stats, awards, championships, and even being a part of all-time great teams is Kareem and Mike. And they did it at every level. If you're the GOAT, you gotta check all the boxes not just one or two.
The object is to win games and championships. To me that is what makes a player great, meeting the objective. Both the two players below have no match in that category, and they also impacted and changed the game forever, one through defense, and other offense.
It’s either Jordan or Russell....NO CONTEST.
It’s either Jordan or Russell....NO CONTEST.
1st Wilt never fouled out of a pro-game.
2th Wilt had over a 40inch vertical leap. Know other 7 footer has ever leaped so high
3rd Wilt won two titles in '71' and '67'. The line-up was outstanding. West at SG, Goodrich at PG ,Baylor at WF, Happy Harrison, and Wilt at Center
Was top man in asset. Won 30 games in a row.
2th Wilt had over a 40inch vertical leap. Know other 7 footer has ever leaped so high
3rd Wilt won two titles in '71' and '67'. The line-up was outstanding. West at SG, Goodrich at PG ,Baylor at WF, Happy Harrison, and Wilt at Center
Was top man in asset. Won 30 games in a row.
Relative to the talent he played against, yes he was that much more dominant. And it wasn't that no one cared to stop him, it's that only the greatest defensive center of all time, Bill Russell, could even slow him down. The only reason his numbers are discounted is because the people having the conversations, for the most part, never saw the man play.
Unless Jordan and Russell played one on five that is the most illogical arguments ever. I'm not saying its not a popular argument, it is, it's just stupid. To assume that argument has validity is the say that Eli Manning was a better quarterback than Dan Marino and if you think that discussion is even close then you need to be in mental ward somewhere.
In team sports you can't judge a player on wins or titles. Plus, in today's NBA neither Jordan or Russell win nearly as many titles. The talent in the league is simply too spread out and the rules have changed to allow players like Curry to dominate. Put Curry in the 80s, where guys get grab, hold and bang and he's only slightly better than Del. But with the current rules he's a dominant player.
Wilt is absolutely the greatest ever. Jordan was amazing but basically the first majorly marketed superstar. Especially with endorsements.
Wilts physical and statistical prowess are unmatched and probably remain such
See you are making my point. The dude dominated the game to the point rules were changed because of him and yet here we are 50 years later with people saying he shouldn't be considered the greatest of all time despite having dozens of records that still stand today. If it was just because he shot the ball 35-40 times per game like Harden to get his points I get it but he dominated every facet of the game except free throw shooting. He was horrible at that like Shaq. It wasn't that he just shot the ball a bunch to put up big ppg numbers. He rebounded, he blocked shots and he passed the ball. Jordan only averaged .8 assist per game more than Wilt did.
I am in the camp that it is hard to say who is the greatest in any sport when comparing across eras and if I had to pick one it would probably be Jordan. However I don't get people totally dismissing Wilt's accomplishments so flippantly because of the era he played in. That is crazy to me.
I am in the camp that it is hard to say who is the greatest in any sport when comparing across eras and if I had to pick one it would probably be Jordan. However I don't get people totally dismissing Wilt's accomplishments so flippantly because of the era he played in. That is crazy to me.
But that is my point. People say that his physical attributes and athletic ability is what makes Lebron good but then say well Wilt only dominated because of his size during that era. You can't have it both ways. Wilt dominated because he was an athletic freak of his day and gets dinged for it while Lebron is hailed as one of the GOAT's because of the same thing.
The fact that this thread has turned into a discussion on who is better between Jordan and Lebron with people only chiming in to say this one or that one just proves my point. The thread is about Wilt and people can't even discuss him they instead bring up the other guys. 
I think Wilt was incredible. I just think Jordan was better. He won at a higher level....stepped away from the game in the primenof his career and came back to 3 peat again.
Also, Jordan's greatest games were in the playoffs and Finals. He was the most clutch guy there ever was. NCAA Finals, NBA Finals, Eastern Conference Finals, it didn't matter...unreal.
and I get that everyone has an opinion. I grew up during the Jordan era and he would be my pick but it just seems like Wilt is totally dismissed. There seems to always be a bias toward who guys grew up watching. Younger folks would probably say Lebron or maybe Kobe, 35-50 would say Jordan or Bird, 50+ would say Russell, Kareem but it just doesn't seem like very many at all say Wilt and I think it is because he accomplishments are discounted for the same reasons that Lebron's are praised.
Very true. Most are generally biased towards the generation they "grew up" in when it comes to a variety of things. Sports is one. Why? Because you, me and others are most vested in sports (generally) when we are young and have no or lesser responsibilities.
I care about UK a ton but it is nothing like it was when I was between 11 and 25 years old.
You are correct. From the ages of 10-35 I didn't miss a game. When I was younger not all games were on TV so I would either listen in my bedroom or a lot of times take my "boombox" outside, plug in the lights that hung in the trees round my basketball court and listen to Cawood call the game while I put some shots up. Then when it got to the point that all games were televised I made sure to set the VCR to record them and later the DVR. However, now that I am close to 50 I try to catch the games but if I miss one it isn't a big deal. There have been times that my wife and kids wanted to go do something and I have missed games like UNC or Kansas and I would have never done that a few years ago.
I never saw Wilt play, or Bill Russell for that matter. But these guys did - here's what they had to say about Jordan:
Bob Cousy
"He's by far the best since Naismith hung up the basket. He touches every base. He's the best, without question."
Billy Cunningham
"I think he was the best ever. The whole package. He's scary sometimes with his defense."
Sam Jones
"He's tremendous. I've never seen anything like him. The guy amazes me. ... He's the best I've ever seen."
Jerry Lucas
"He's the greatest player who ever lived, a unique attraction. He's such a competitor.
Bill Sharman
"Michael Jordan is the greatest all-around basketball performer of all time. ... "
Isiah Thomas
"From all the players I have seen and played against, he's definitely the best player ever."
Nate Thurmond
"He's the greatest that ever touched a basketball, that ever lived, any way you want to put it and without a doubt."
Lenny Wilkens
"He became the greatest. I won't say he was when he first started, but he developed into, I think, the greatest player who ever played basketball."
Jerry West
"I have to think he's the greatest player ever. Not because of his ability to score, but because of his total game."
Bob Cousy
"He's by far the best since Naismith hung up the basket. He touches every base. He's the best, without question."
Billy Cunningham
"I think he was the best ever. The whole package. He's scary sometimes with his defense."
Sam Jones
"He's tremendous. I've never seen anything like him. The guy amazes me. ... He's the best I've ever seen."
Jerry Lucas
"He's the greatest player who ever lived, a unique attraction. He's such a competitor.
Bill Sharman
"Michael Jordan is the greatest all-around basketball performer of all time. ... "
Isiah Thomas
"From all the players I have seen and played against, he's definitely the best player ever."
Nate Thurmond
"He's the greatest that ever touched a basketball, that ever lived, any way you want to put it and without a doubt."
Lenny Wilkens
"He became the greatest. I won't say he was when he first started, but he developed into, I think, the greatest player who ever played basketball."
Jerry West
"I have to think he's the greatest player ever. Not because of his ability to score, but because of his total game."
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Wilt's astronomical stats can be attributed to one major statistical analysis.
Notice how his stats align with a huge amount of possessions per game.
Notice how his stats align with a huge amount of possessions per game.
Wilt was the only player of his kind at the time. He still played in era where the league was mostly populated by unathletic guys. It's not hard for a guy who is athletically gifted to dominate a bunch of dudes who couldn't make the YMCA team.
LeBron is a physical anomaly in a league full of guys who can also jump out of the gym. Look at Zion. Dude looks like he could be an offensive lineman and has nearly unlimited speed and hops. AD and Giannis are also athletic anomalies. The league has a lot of guys like this now days. As opposed to a handful like in Wilts day.
Wilt also played an average of 7 minutes more per game during his career than Lebron and Jordan has for their careers. So I guess he had more minutes to get his stats. But then again he should also have been more tired by playing more minutes in a faster paced game than the other 2. 
Wilt's astronomical stats can be attributed to one major statistical analysis.
Notice how his stats align with a huge amount of possessions per game.
Yep I am about to be 40 and during kids basketball or soccer or whatever else is going on I will miss games. If it is on and I am home I am watching it though.
I definitely make an effort to never miss a big game. Fortunately wife and oldest kid like to watch too so don't miss often.
My kids 5th bday party was day of UK UCLA at Rupp a few years back (Fox/Ball-1) and I missed that while at Chuck E Cheese...ha.
Yeah I wish my wife and kids watched UK but they don't really care about it unless we are actually going to a game. They never sit and watch a game on TV with me.
Wow! You might be on to something. I’m 5-10” and can’t dunk from the foul line. That’s probably why.
I don't know if you have followed along for the entire thread but the point is Wilt gets knocked for being bigger, stronger, faster and able to jump higher than people during his time in the NBA but Lebron doesn't. But hey don't let that get in the way of you trying to look like Jerry Seinfeld.
It all booked down to who your teammates are. Russell had better teammates. As far as Russell's individual tallent was he was on the same level as Nate Thurmond. Russell just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Russell was not a great athlete was not a great rebounder and was pretty terrible on offense. Like I said he was just in the right place at the right time
Just totally false. It’s false to suggest that Russell played on stacked teams throughout his career while Wilt was stuck playing with bums.
Not a great rebounder? Russell averaged 22 for his career, and 25 in the playoffs. I want some of what you’re smoking if that’s not a great rebounder.
The reason why Russell’s team consistently won, and Wilt’s teams consistently came up short can be found in the 2 men’s mentality. Russell only cared about what was best for the Celtics, what out his team over the top. Wilt cared about his stats and what put him in the best light. The team was secondary to his personal ambitions.
Russell was always wanting to win. In the end, that's all that matters and he knew it. He'll always be in the discussion for greatest ever simply because of his 11 rings.
Wilt won his second ring with the Lakers because he finally did what Russell always had. He averaged only 13 points on that '72 Laker team but he wanted to win another ring and focused on rebounding and doing the dirty work. How many more rings could Wilt have had if he had been doing that the whole time?
If I’m taking one guy with the caveat that I’m taking him at his apex, it’s Shaq.
To me and I've seen them all, it's Jabbar.
6 NBA Championships
3 NCAA Championships
NBA's all time leading scorer
Jabbar at his peak was unstoppable
6 NBA Championships
3 NCAA Championships
NBA's all time leading scorer
Jabbar at his peak was unstoppable
People forget both Jordan and Kobe were 9X 1st team defense. MJ got a DPOY AND MJ carried 1st team honors until he retired from the Bulls. Kobe’s defense dwindled with age.
It’s fun to see these old highlights. You actually get a shot of Shaq and Wilt standing on the court together, and then late in the video watch Wilt block skyhook after skyhook of a young Kareem. Listen for the Larry Brown story with a 43 year old Wilt teaming up with four of his UCLA freshman, playing against Magic and several Lakers players in the summer. Fun stuff. Wilt was definitely a freak!
I actually saw Wilt play more than a few times in person. IMO there was and is presently no better player ever played basketball. PERIOD. Saw Alcinder before the name change. But Wilt just did things no human being has ever done on the court. I love AD. Best UK player I have ever seen and that goes back to the 50s. Physically AD wouldnt hold up to Wilt. Thats not a slam. No one could or can even today. 7 foot 2 inches 300-310. Could beat your guard from baseline to baseline. They changed rules to stop him. (same with Alcinder in college, its why David Thompson never dunked in a college game) Loved Shaq but he would have never lasted foul wise against Wilt. Best college player, hands down was Pistol Pete. Invented things no one had ever seen in the game. Lots copied him later on but no one invented them as Pistol did. As a Kentucky fan seeing him play in Lexington 3 times I believe the one very unique thing was Kentucky fans loved watching him. They had just not seen anyone like him. One thing about UK fans, they know good basketball.
This is the correct answer. The center piece on some of the greatest basketball teams ever.
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