wilt is My favorite player ,i also like bill Russel and jerry west.
There are a lot of arguments about the greatest NBA player ever.
- Thread starter Creed Bratton
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Jordan also starting winning once he got all star teammates. LeBron James took a bunch of nobodys and the Cleveland Cavaliers to the Finals. There is no way Michael Jordan would have went to the NBA Finals with those early Cav teams.
That is the difference between LeBron and Jordan
Wilt, stronger than Shaq? Come on now.
I'm a Lebron guy, but no way does he take scrubs to finals in Jordan's Eastern Conference.
The Eastern Conference was 5x harder in Jordan's era than LeBron's. He 100% could have made ECF in his prime with them vs the same competition LeBron went against.
Jordan's early teams were trash too.
He took them to playoffs his first 3 years, conference semis, them ECF x 2 years in a row....then took flight.
The Eastern Conference back then is what the Western Conference is now and has been for a long while. The East was stacked with the best teams and players in the '80s, especially during Jordan's time.
The Paul Bunyon stories...never ceases to amaze me.
The NFL bench record is Stephen Paea who did 225lbs 49x. He is 6'1, 300lbs...this calculated out to a max of roughly 590.
There is no way that Wilt benched 500 pounds. His arms were too freaking long. Arnold Schwarzenegger's max was 500 😂
The Eastern Conference was terrible at that time. No players from the East made the All-NBA first team and the Pistons, who had the best record in the conference, didn't put a single player on the first or second team All-NBA. Also the Sixers traded Iverson out west to Denver.
The Eastern Conference had pretty much hit rock bottom at this point. Lebron could not get Cleveland back to the Finals until he returned in 2015.
It's hard to define 'best' of all time. I guess it depends on a more defined criteria.
As for most dominant - it's got to be Wilt. Aside from his records, his strength was legendary. And as has been mentioned his athleticism was off the charts - not just for his size but compared to anyone. Shaq may be runner up in this category.
I still have to give the nod to MJ for best NBA player. There's a category for the great ones that stats alone can't define. MJ had this special quality in spades.
As for most dominant - it's got to be Wilt. Aside from his records, his strength was legendary. And as has been mentioned his athleticism was off the charts - not just for his size but compared to anyone. Shaq may be runner up in this category.
I still have to give the nod to MJ for best NBA player. There's a category for the great ones that stats alone can't define. MJ had this special quality in spades.
Are you talking about the latter end of the Bulls run? Early in his tenure with the Bulls he had to get through Birds Celtics and then through back to back NBA champs in Detroit.
I don't buy the Jabbar argument, he simply didn't affect the game in as many ways as other guys. I know this board has a disdain for Lebron, but that guy is a freak. The only reason Jordan should be considered above Lebron is that for Jordan winning was everything, it's all the guy cared about whereas Lebron is competitive but not to that level.
It's a big argument. Wilt played when there were way less teams. Better completion. Plenty of big men then. He's numbers dwarf Jordan. How many games did you see them both play. I'm curious. For the record I could not stAnd wilt. But he was the best. 50 points and 25 rebounds a game and you don't think it's worth discussing. Are you kidding. So how many games did you see wilt play.
Agree. Today’s NBA says you need to the Big 3 to win it or some super team like the Nets this year. Jordan was just him and Pippen surrounded by a solid d supporting cast performing their roles. And Jordan wouldn’t lose a step in today’s game nor any other generation as some have stated about other greats.
LeBron chases winning by trades to teams with super talent surrounding him. Jordan did it at one organization.
One, you need a super team to win now. Two, who did he join at the Lakers or in his return to the Cavs? Three, Jordan had a great front office that built a great supporting cast around him AND he didn't have to compete against super teams, it wasn't done back then.
Jordan is the greatest ever, but trying to deny Lebron's greatness is silly. Listen to any of the guys that played in the last 20 years, the dude is a freak.
I have seen most of the great NBA players in person since the 60s.
No question in my mind Wilt was/is the greatest NBA player to ever play the game.
It wasn’t just his height or mobility but his off the chart strength.
Wilt was interviewed once and he was ask about MJ. He said first time MJ drove the lane and sticking his tongue out and taking 3 or 4 steps to get to the basket he would clothesline him. He said I would reach down and pick him up and simply say “you every do the shit again and next time I’ll kill you “
No question in my mind Wilt was/is the greatest NBA player to ever play the game.
It wasn’t just his height or mobility but his off the chart strength.
Wilt was interviewed once and he was ask about MJ. He said first time MJ drove the lane and sticking his tongue out and taking 3 or 4 steps to get to the basket he would clothesline him. He said I would reach down and pick him up and simply say “you every do the shit again and next time I’ll kill you “
Actually, I’m not denying LeBron’s is a tremendous player and one of the best to suit up. I’m simply saying Jordan is better. And I’m not sure, but didn’t LeBron help usher in the Big 3 in the NBA while at Miami?
They might not qualify as Super teams per some definitions, but 80’s Celtics and Lakers could be close.
It's gotta be Kareem. All time scoring leader, but Wilt in his place countless times. For as good as Wilt was, Kareem was just better. Won a title with Mil. like his rookie or sophomore year. Plus, three titles at UCLA. Dude is the best player overall IMO.
Most of his claims of athletic feats are believable except for the one about bench pressing 600 pounds. That one is questionable.
Jordan:
Chocked against the Dawgs in '83 in the E8.
Won a title in 82 because of a stupid pass by Sleepy Floyd who some think gave the game away.
Couldn't get his team past Bird and the Celtics. Bulls won when the Celtics and Lakers were on the way down.
It is clear you just don't like Jordan, which is fine.
26pts 6reb vs Georgia on near 50% shooting
Game winning shot in National Championship
Beat the Lakers in NBA Finals
Scored 63 against Boston in playoffs when he had no one on his team...averaged 44ppg for series
Not going to waste my time sharing anything else...most game winning shots in NBA history...sorry last thing.
Thank you for proving my point. You took the phenomenal freak athlete that was the example of the exception, not the average player
Yes, Wilt, Kareem, etc were phenomenal freak athletes in a time where there wasn’t as many 6’9+ pogo sticks with weight training and superior conditioning on top of a skill set. And they dominated.
Point is, if you take an AD or GA that are also freaks of nature, put them playing against what the AVERAGE player was then from a size and athleticism standpoint and they too put up more ridiculous numbers than they do now.
The conversation isn’t about the top 10-25 players in the league from each generation....it’s about man 3-15 on the roster. Those guys are bigger, faster, stronger today which closes the gap and advantage that the natural freakish guys have. Yes, there is zero doubt that the elite guys from those eras could play in today’s league and still be elite...it’s that the average guys wouldn’t be in today’s league at large.
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Giannis and Davis in the 50’s would be absolutely sick.
You’ve made a great point. All-time is much different than best during a specific era.
Every one has their own personal views and choice when it comes to naming the greatest player in NBA history and that is okay. However not only is Kareem the greatest player in NBA history, he is the greatest to ever play men's basketball at any level. This man did it in High School, where he was a 3 x Parade All-American. He did it in college, where he was a 3 x National Champion and 3 x Tournament MVP and 3 x All American. His stats in the NBA are astounding. 6 MVP's, 6 NBA titles, 19 x All Star, 15 x all NBA. 11 x All Defensive team, 20 years in the league. He is the All time leading scorer, 3rd in rebounding and 3rd in blocked shots. So when the debate starts about the GOAT, I will take Mr. Sky Hook with the first pick.
I am in James corner as the GOAT. However, I think you are correct, Chamberlain has to be in the discussion. The drawback is the lack of flexibility between positions. That said, what a beast!!!
Never said I didn't like MJ.
His 50% shooting didn't get the win.
Didn't matter he scored 63 against Boston.....still couldn't beat Bird.
We should compare how competitive the East was during in the latter years of the Bulls from 1996-1998 to Lebron's East in 2007-2009.
50-win teams in the East during those last 3 Bulls championship seasons: 13
50-win teams in the East during LeBron's 2007-2009 seasons: 8
Eastern teams with winning records during those last 3 Bulls championship seasons: 26
Eastern teams with winning records during LeBron's 2007-2009 seasons: 17
All-NBA players in the East during those last 3 Bulls championship seasons: 18
All-NBA players in the East during LeBron's 2007-2009 seasons seasons: 10
Ok, I am not sure what your point is.
No, Jordan didn't beat Bird/McHale/Parrish/Johnson/Ainge, so on...he did drop 63 on them which according to you doesn't matter.
He did however beat a slew of the Top 50 players all time in route to winning 6 titles and 6 finals MVPs.
I don't have to argue his credentials they are pretty clear.
So your saying their are dozens of guys who has his freak athleticism? You got any numbers to back that claim up or just speculation
I used to body build when I was younger and did it for many years. Used to also train a lot of people.
I could bench 225 44x and put 365 on the bar and do it 29x sometimes 30. Slap 420 on it and i couldn't budge it.
Guy I used to lift with would struggle putting up 225 20x could barely get up 365 2x but he could press 420 and also do 500. Saw him do 550 once and thought the heavy bar was gonna snap it was bending so bad.
This older gent who was 68 could bench almost 400 and looked like he couldn't put up 150.
Meaning?? Throw those charts in the garbage. Don't mean squat.
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