There are a lot of arguments about the greatest NBA player ever.

[Creed Bratton]

Most discussions center around Jordan, Lebron and Kobe but I am curious why there is no love for Wilt Chamberlain? I was just looking at his stats and in the history of the NBA there has been 74 times that a player scored 60+ points in a game. Of those 74 times Chamberlain did it 32 of them. As a comparison Kobe had 6, Jordan 5, Elgin Baylor and James Hardin 4 and Lebron James 1.

He not only was a scoring machine but holds countless rebounding records that will never be broken. He once rebounded 55 in a game. He average 25+ for the season on 3 different occasions. He also led the league in rebounding 11 seasons which is the record. They didn't keep blocked shot stats for his entire career but the 112 games he played in, once they started keeping the stats, he average 8.8 blocks per game. Keep in mind this was near the end of his career. As a comparison the NBA all time leader is Mark Eaton at 3.5 per game. Due to the limited number of games and blocks Chamberlain isn't in the list.

The dude was unstoppable and yet nobody talks about him. Just scroll through his records in the link below and look at the ones he still holds and some will never be broken. Is it just because of his size advantage that people discount what he was able to do?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Wilt_Chamberlain#NBA_rebounding_records

 

[Flipflopsandsocks]

Kareem Abdul Jabbar... good day.

 

[EliteBlue]

Size and era.

When people start trying to compare cross era/style of play, I think most believe his numbers wouldn’t have been nowhere near that.

For example, put AD or Giannis or even Embid (hate the guy) in that era and they are freak anomalies as well and likely have exaggerated stat lines compared to what they typically post today

 

[FrankUnderwood]

Era.

there should be a Goat for “past era” as well as “modern era”.

 

[Creed Bratton]

I get that his size is a deterrent for a lot of people but in my opinion Lebron couldn't do what he does if not for his size. If he wasn't athletically superior, like Wilt was, to most others who has to guard him he wouldn't be in consideration.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

I get that his size is a deterrent for a lot of people but in my opinion Lebron couldn't do what he does if not for his size. If he wasn't athletically superior, like Wilt was, to most others who has to guard him he wouldn't be in consideration.

Eh idk. I think Lebron would still be insane even if he was 6’6.

 

[Creed Bratton]

Eh idk. I think Lebron would still be insane even if he was 6’6.

If he was 6'6" and weighed 215 there is no way he is as dominate. What makes him great is he is 6'8" and 250 and very few can have the ability to stop him. He overpowers most traditional wings that are 6'6" and 220 and is faster than most guys who are his size. It just doesn't seem fair to discount Wilt for having an advantage in size and athletic ability but then say that Lebron would still be good if he didn't.

 

[kb22stang]

Most discussions center around Jordan, Lebron and Kobe but I am curious why there is no love for Wilt Chamberlain? I was just looking at his stats and in the history of the NBA there has been 74 times that a player scored 60+ points in a game. Of those 74 times Chamberlain did it 32 of them. As a comparison Kobe had 6, Jordan 5, Elgin Baylor and James Hardin 4 and Lebron James 1.

He not only was a scoring machine but holds countless rebounding records that will never be broken. He once rebounded 55 in a game. He average 25+ for the season on 3 different occasions. He also led the league in rebounding 11 seasons which is the record. They didn't keep blocked shot stats for his entire career but the 112 games he played in, once they started keeping the stats, he average 8.8 blocks per game. Keep in mind this was near the end of his career. As a comparison the NBA all time leader is Mark Eaton at 3.5 per game. Due to the limited number of games and blocks Chamberlain isn't in the list.

The dude was unstoppable and yet nobody talks about him. Just scroll through his records in the link below and look at the ones he still holds and some will never be broken. Is it just because of his size advantage that people discount what he was able to do?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Wilt_Chamberlain#NBA_rebounding_records

Recency of data. Any argument saying that Jordan couldn't play in Wilt's era would be rightfully dismissed off hand. But people of my age and younger simply don't understand how otherworldly Wilt was. I can't guarantee it, but I believe if Wilt played today he would be the most dominant center in the game. I would definitely put him above Kobe, equal or better than Lebron, but it's hard to logically argue that Jordan wasn't the best player ever.

 

[mktmaker]

Most discussions center around Jordan, Lebron and Kobe but I am curious why there is no love for Wilt Chamberlain? I was just looking at his stats and in the history of the NBA there has been 74 times that a player scored 60+ points in a game. Of those 74 times Chamberlain did it 32 of them. As a comparison Kobe had 6, Jordan 5, Elgin Baylor and James Hardin 4 and Lebron James 1.

He not only was a scoring machine but holds countless rebounding records that will never be broken. He once rebounded 55 in a game. He average 25+ for the season on 3 different occasions. He also led the league in rebounding 11 seasons which is the record. They didn't keep blocked shot stats for his entire career but the 112 games he played in, once they started keeping the stats, he average 8.8 blocks per game. Keep in mind this was near the end of his career. As a comparison the NBA all time leader is Mark Eaton at 3.5 per game. Due to the limited number of games and blocks Chamberlain isn't in the list.

The dude was unstoppable and yet nobody talks about him. Just scroll through his records in the link below and look at the ones he still holds and some will never be broken. Is it just because of his size advantage that people discount what he was able to do?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Wilt_Chamberlain#NBA_rebounding_records

I follow sports closely.

I have long thought that the three best basketball players of all time were (in no particular order) Jordan, Chamberlain, and Oscar Robertson.

I saw all three (on TV) in their prime. If we were drafting I would take Chamberlain first. Size matters.

Later when Lebron adjusted to the pros, I added him to make a Top Four. He might even be the best of them all.




Most of the Jordan and Lebron fans never saw Wilt and Big O play.

 

[kb22stang]

I follow sports closely.

I have long thought that the three best basketball players of all time were (in no particular order) Jordan, Chamberlain, and Oscar Robertson.

I saw all three (on TV) in their prime. If we were drafting I would take Chamberlain first. Size matters.

Later when Lebron adjusted to the pros, I added him to make a Top Four. He might even be the best of them all.

I am jealous for the first time on this board. I would have loved to watch Wilt and Oscar in their prime. I only go back to Bird/Magic in their prime.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Wilt also scored 100 in a game.

 

[mktmaker]

For what it's worth:

(probably nothing)




I like these comments:

"I'm a Celtics fan and I never liked Wilt. But there's no getting away from the fact that Wilt was the most dominant player ever."



Wilt: "MJ just remember when you played they changed all the rules to make it easier for you to dominate... When I played they changed all the rules to make them harder for me..."

MJ: (No Comment)

 

[RunninRichie]

Wilt was the greatest athlete to ever walk the earth

 

[calamitybone]

LBJ might be the best - certainly has an all-around game that is amazing. But, in a Game 7 scenario, I'm riding with MJ and it's not really close.

 

[Mojocat]

I don't know of anyone claiming Kobe is the best ever. I know that's a little touchy, given the recent tragedy, but I've never seen anyone say he's the greatest. I just saw a list the other day - looked it up during the Last Dance thread - from ESPN that didn't have Kobe in the top 10. Some have him in that 8-10 range, most I've seen have him just outside the top 10. Virtually everyone has Jordan #1, and most have LeBron now in the top 3.

That aside, how do you define "greatest" or "best"? Best player I ever saw was Michael Jordan. Greatest career - high school, college, NBA - was probably Kareem......

 

[kb22stang]

For what it's worth:

(probably nothing)

View embedded media

I like these comments:

"I'm a Celtics fan and I never liked Wilt. But there's no getting away from the fact that Wilt was the most dominant player ever."



Wilt: "MJ just remember when you played they changed all the rules to make it easier for you to dominate... When I played they changed all the rules to make them harder for me..."

MJ: (No Comment)

Thanks for posting this man, thoroughly enjoyed the watch. My favorite quote is Wilt, "If you have Jordan against me in his prime how much $ you willing to put on Michael" (paraphrased).

I also liked Bill's comments at the end.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I think the numbers actually hurt Wilt's legacy.


Think about it. You posted the scoring and rebounds and blocks and all that. They lap the field. Any great modern accomplishment gets put alongside Wilt's numbers and is instantly dwarfed, right?

So ask yourself, what are the odds? Was there really a guy who was a 60% more dominant scorer than Jordan or Harden, 100% more dominant rebounder and shot blocker than Shaq, and he just happened to play 60 years ago?

And no one since him has come close to any of those feats, despite every aspect of training, nutrition, access to the game, global population, coaching, etc improving twenty-fold since then? Why? Of all the freaks we've seen grace the court, he was *that* much better than every single one of them?

It's just not logical. He was an all time great talent, an all time great player, an all time great athlete, who was 40 years ahead of his time. That, and he became a bit of a numbers-chasing sideshow in an era where that was profitable and no one cared to stop him.

 

[HerrosHeroes]

Wilt the Stilt

 

[zannmann]

Wilt is the Goat. People act like his stats were inflated because he was so tall. He wasn’t the only player in the NBA his size. There were other 7 footers. He was just talented and skilled. He would dominate today too.

 

[UKUGA]

I don't know of anyone claiming Kobe is the best ever. I know that's a little touchy, given the recent tragedy, but I've never seen anyone say he's the greatest. I just saw a list the other day - looked it up during the Last Dance thread - from ESPN that didn't have Kobe in the top 10. Some have him in that 8-10 range, most I've seen have him just outside the top 10. Virtually everyone has Jordan #1, and most have LeBron now in the top 3.

That aside, how do you define "greatest" or "best"? Best player I ever saw was Michael Jordan. Greatest career - high school, college, NBA - was probably Kareem......

Basically, no one says he is the best ever, but there are plenty that will put him around top 10, but will allow that he can be in a group that can be considered the greatest of all time.

Most mature people realize that there are many factors that make it difficult to compare two players head to head, so they will give some leeway.

They will do things like, "the conversation can only include the following:" and they will include him in that list.

Kobe never really had a chance, because he looked too much like Jordan and it was all too fresh.

Jordan's recently retired cronies (e.g. Barkley), spent years bashing Kobe in the media during his prime.

Kobe played during a transitional period in the NBA, where you had some holding to the Jordan-era approach (Phil Jackson coached Kobe to five championships, running a very similar offense), while others began to push an up-tempo pace that while introduced by the Suns/D'Antoni, was really mastered by the Spurs in 2014 and then the Warriors beyond that.

Kobe began his career being told he could never measure up to Jordan, and ended his career being told he was a misfit in the modern era.

Whereas, had he actually been drafted, say, 2010, he would have been a 35+ PPG game scorer while playing elite defense.

Personally, I think Jordan is better. Those last 3 titles, were really hard for me to watch. It kept seeming like someone should knock the Bulls off (especially the Pacers in '98), but somehow, someway, the Bulls and Jordan found a way.

And the way Jordan took and made so many huge game winners. He was probably the best ever at that.

For Kobe, he was brilliant in the fourth quarter, and hit plenty of big shots and buzzer beaters, but it always seemed like whenever the final play was drawn up for him, he was a little too keenly too aware of the fact that the game was on the line, and personally, I think sometimes he thought about it too much.

However, when he was simply playing, he was better at knocking down final shots.


Jordan, though, just never seemed to let anything affect him.

 

[king of cali]

OP, you said it in your first couple of sentences. You were looking at Wilt’s stats. Yes his numbers were astronomical. But when you look at the style of play back in the 60’s, you can see why.

Wilt wasn’t the only on putting up eye popping numbers. We know that Oscar averaged a triple double. There were seasons that Russell averaged 16 and 23, and 18 and 24. One year Elgin Baylor put up 38 and 19 as a 6’5 SF.

So yes, the numbers are nice. But in basketball, when you’re that dominant, it should coincide with winning. All too often Wilt came up short. When MJ was the most dominant player in the game he won 6 titles in 8 years. When Shaq was the most dominant he won 3 in a row and laid waste to everyone. To be the GOAT you have to win, not just have stats.

 

[Deli owl]

Size and era.

When people start trying to compare cross era/style of play, I think most believe his numbers wouldn’t have been nowhere near that.

For example, put AD or Giannis or even Embid (hate the guy) in that era and they are freak anomalies as well and likely have exaggerated stat lines compared to what they typically post today

Can you imagine Shaq back then.

 

[EliteBlue]

Can you imagine Shaq back then.

Seriously though. A lot of people under 30 forget how athletic and dominant he was in his prime. They only remember the late years of him.

Orlando Shaq is arguably the most unguardable player of all time over that short period

 

[HagginHall1999]

It is Jordan for God's sake and it isn't even an argument.

 

[TheOtherGreatOne]

Most discussions center around Jordan, Lebron and Kobe but I am curious why there is no love for Wilt Chamberlain? I was just looking at his stats and in the history of the NBA there has been 74 times that a player scored 60+ points in a game. Of those 74 times Chamberlain did it 32 of them. As a comparison Kobe had 6, Jordan 5, Elgin Baylor and James Hardin 4 and Lebron James 1.

He not only was a scoring machine but holds countless rebounding records that will never be broken. He once rebounded 55 in a game. He average 25+ for the season on 3 different occasions. He also led the league in rebounding 11 seasons which is the record. They didn't keep blocked shot stats for his entire career but the 112 games he played in, once they started keeping the stats, he average 8.8 blocks per game. Keep in mind this was near the end of his career. As a comparison the NBA all time leader is Mark Eaton at 3.5 per game. Due to the limited number of games and blocks Chamberlain isn't in the list.

The dude was unstoppable and yet nobody talks about him. Just scroll through his records in the link below and look at the ones he still holds and some will never be broken. Is it just because of his size advantage that people discount what he was able to do?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Wilt_Chamberlain#NBA_rebounding_records

Did Jordan or Bryant ever average 50.4 points a game-Wilt did Did Jorda Jordan or or Bryant ever average 27.3 rebounds a game- Wilt did Did Jordan or Bryant ever score 100 points in a game -Wilt did Did Jordan or Bryant get 55 rabounds in a game- Wilt did Did Jordan or Bryant ever lead the league in assists- Wilt did Did Jordan or Bryant ever shoot 71% from the field- Wilt did Wilt did all this plus he was a collegiate track and field champion. Not even close, Wilt Chamberlain was the most dominate basketball player that ever lived. Jordan and Bryant got their hipe because people were making big bucks off of it. In their era it was more about making money than about actual basketball. Oh did I mention that they changed the rules of the game to try and stop Wilt because no human being could.

 

[TheOtherGreatOne]

It is Jordan for God's sake and it isn't even an argument.

I can tell you never watched Wilt play.

 

[TheOtherGreatOne]

Seriously though. A lot of people under 30 forget how athletic and dotime he minant he was in his prime. They only remember the late years of him.

Orlando Shaq is arguably the most unguardable player of all time over that short period

I can tell you never saw Wilt play either. If Shaq would have played in Wilt's time he would have fouled out every game in less than a half. The superstars were not proptected like they are today. This started with Jordan, it was and is still today about how much money they can bring in than about the actual game of basketball.

 

[Tsass_27]

My top 10
1. Lebron
2. Jordan
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Shaq
6. Bird
7. Kobe
8. Duncan
9. Wilt
10. One of Russell or Hakeem

 

[rick64]

Wilt had one record off the court that probably can’t be matched.

 

[Cobb4uk]

I'm old enough and fortunate enough to have seen all mention play, Wilt in person. Stood right next to him in his prime, largest human I've ever seen, most don't realize he weighed 300 pounds but looked lean. He also had a great vertical leap and just a great athlete, volley ball, track & field etc. There has never been anyone that could have stopped him.

As for who's the most complete basketball player I've ever seen, it would have to be LeBron & Oscar Robinson. MJ was a great scorer, below average rebounder, average assist, with a great will to win and made his teammates work harder. MJ, Bird, and Magic put the NBA on the map when they were on TV continually enhancing their stardom. If Wilt had been at the same time he would habe stole the show. There another player that should get a lot more credit, best defensive player I ever saw in person or on TV, Bill Russell. This argument could go on forever, I just feel fortunate that I've been blessed to see them all.

 

[fatguy87]

Wilt, Kareem, MJ, Lebron, or Magic are the correct answers to the question.

 

[HagginHall1999]

I can tell you never watched Wilt play.

Don't need to. I have seen plenty of highlights.

Great player, absolutely. Greatest of All Time- nope.

Michael Jordan is the greatest single athlete in the history of sport. If Krause didn't pull Bulls apart and he hadn't retired they win 10 titles in a row in modern era....minimum 8 if he hadn't walked away.

It is about more than just stats my friend.

 

[GaryAlbright]

I will never argue with anyone who says Robertson or Wilt were the greatest of all time. How can someone claim a certain player wasn't the greatest if they weren't around to see him play?

But as far as the rules never being changed when Jordan was around, that is not true...

https://www.nytimes.com/1987/11/04/sports/challenges-for-jordan-new-league-rule-and-new-role.html

 

[Deli owl]

Jordan was undeniably great. One factor no one talks about is how marketing started taking off with Nike at the same time. That also undeniably benefits his legacy from a exposure standpoint.

 

[HagginHall1999]

I'm old enough and fortunate enough to have seen all mention play, Wilt in person. Stood right next to him in his prime, largest human I've ever seen, most don't realize he weighed 300 pounds but looked lean. He also had a great vertical leap and just a great athlete, volley ball, track & field etc. There has never been anyone that could have stopped him.

As for who's the most complete basketball player I've ever seen, it would have to be LeBron & Oscar Robinson. MJ was a great scorer, below average rebounder, average assist, with a great will to win and made his teammates work harder. MJ, Bird, and Magic put the NBA on the map when they were on TV continually enhancing their stardom. If Wilt had been at the same time he would habe stole the show. There another player that should get a lot more credit, best defensive player I ever saw in person or on TV, Bill Russell. This argument could go on forever, I just feel fortunate that I've been blessed to see them all.

Jordan was also one of the best on the ball defenders of all time. He still has more steals than LeBron has played significantly more games as of now.

Not sure about MJ as a below average rebounder. Again, from SG position averaged over 6 boards per game and just 1 less than LBJ who has 3 inches and 40 pounds on him.

We will all lean towards what we grew up on or witnessed in person for sure.

That is what I do...ha.

 

[Mojocat]

Jordan was also one of the best on the ball defenders of all time. He still has more steals than LeBron has played significantly more games as of now.

True, and it brings up a really good point. Most of the time when people talk about this, they are only thinking of the offensive end of the court. I love Magic and Larry, but as great as they were, it was all about offense. Don’t get me wrong, with their smarts and competitive nature, neither was a bad defender, and in fact both played really good team defense, which is about smarts and effort as it is anything. But neither was Jordan on D - he could demoralize an opponent on either end of the floor. Kobe was similar in that regard. Most of the all time greats were not.

 

[LowCountryCat]

I don't know of anyone claiming Kobe is the best ever. I know that's a little touchy, given the recent tragedy, but I've never seen anyone say he's the greatest. I just saw a list the other day - looked it up during the Last Dance thread - from ESPN that didn't have Kobe in the top 10. Some have him in that 8-10 range, most I've seen have him just outside the top 10. Virtually everyone has Jordan #1, and most have LeBron now in the top 3.

That aside, how do you define "greatest" or "best"? Best player I ever saw was Michael Jordan. Greatest career - high school, college, NBA - was probably Kareem......

College was Pistol Pete Maravich and I don't see how you can say otherwise.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Don't need to. I have seen plenty of highlights.

Great player, absolutely. Greatest of All Time- nope.

Michael Jordan is the greatest single athlete in the history of sport. If Krause didn't pull Bulls apart and he hadn't retired they win 10 titles in a row in modern era....minimum 8 if he hadn't walked away.

It is about more than just stats my friend.

Ehhh...Possibly. But Tiger Woods DID win the US Open on a broken stick.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Ehhh...Possibly. But Tiger Woods DID win the US Open on a broken stick.

Very true.

 

[HagginHall1999]

College was Pistol Pete Maravich and I don't see how you can say otherwise.

Only other would be Oscar. His stats were pretty remarkable and went to 2 FF.