Well, you can add me to the list. I want him gone. GT was winless. They aint now.
The ship will right
- Thread starter davekersey
- Start date
Lol, yea and only 1 of them won it all. The second team also didn't really have many vets. Liggins was in Cal's doghouse year 1 and rarely played. Miller was used sparingly. Harrelson barely played that year until Cal's hand was forced because of Kanter. The 4th final four team the upperclassmen kept us from winning. I would have much preferred Booker and Ulis play those last 8 minutes against Wisky.
I agree Boston’s shot will come back. But it’ll be next year after he’s flown the coop just like the other shooters that came in and couldn’t hit while here.
The titanic still looks pretty spectacular even on the ocean floor
The question was: "how do you get players to stay?"
The answer is: "don't prioritize the NBA, don't make the NBA your sales pitch. Don't do pro days, don't sell your players to the nba and stop recruiting athletes that have no skill. Just get 3 and 4 star program guys and mix in a top 5 to 10 ranked player if you can get them"
Don't be ignorant, use your head, Cal prioritizes the NBA. If Cal WANTED to, he could build traditional rosters that have veteran players, he just doesn't want to.
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I don't doubt this team will come together. I'm not sold they are already done for. But I think we as fans are tired of these piss poor teams in November and December and sometimes January.
Maybe kentucky fans should just tune in for February and March. It's not fun watching many of Cals teams early on.
Maybe kentucky fans should just tune in for February and March. It's not fun watching many of Cals teams early on.
Nobody ever said veteran players guarantee final fours and titles, but how many veteran teams lose to Evansville and teams like this Georgia tech team? Robert Morris? Richmond at home?
Veteran teams don't typically average 20 turnovers a game either.
I don’t care if he stays or goes but somebody best get their shit together and start winning some titles around here. His rhetoric has more holes in it than my underwear when I was growing up. You come here? You play for Kentucky. You play for titles. Anything other than that? Go somewhere else. The last 12 years we’ve let this program be hijacked by a slick talking shyster. Nobody and I mean NOBODY is bigger than this program. And anyone who thinks they are? They can hit the road. I think we’ve been more than patient. A coach in his 12th season at a school doesn’t say smartass things to fans when they criticize the results. He thinks he’s above criticism and so do some on here. Fine, go ahead and suck his balls. But for those fans that want more than draft picks, whose highlights don’t include watching from the green room, we want more. We demand more and we deserve more. We created the BBN. It was here before, will be here long after.
You have to prioritize the NBA when you need players of that caliber to compete. That's like encouraging a college not to have career fairs. That is just idiotic.
If you are getting just 3 to 4 year players, you will never compete for national championships on a consistent basis. You also aren't going to reasonably attain top level players if a multi year guy expecting to play major minutes is already here. Either he ain't coming or the multi year guy is leaving. That is just how the world/kids operate today. I would much rather have the early season struggles and actually be a pretty serious contender by seasons end than having a SR day annually.
Lol, he is literally doing that now. We have Toppin, Ware, Allen and Fletcher that should be multi year guys. Jackson was expected to be, but that ain't happening. Brooks is already a 2 year guy. We were supposed to have Juzang and Baker, but they transfered. We had a few retuners last year. Herro and SGA were anticipated as being multi year players, our staff developed the shit out of them appearntly. Greem transfered. Humphries left early to go pro overseas. Matthews transfered, Wynyard was a gang banger. So what would you have the staff do? They have literally tried your method to no success either.
Lol, We were a veteran team last yeat when we lost to Evansville. We had a JR and several sophmores, plus a grad transfer. They had all played a lot.
Richmond was a 6.5 pt underdog. Many picked them to upset us. They were literally just outside the top 25 already. You all have to stop this odd narrative that it was somehow so bad or unexpected.
Rober Morris never gets played if Noel doesn't get hurt. Teams wans't great, but no one in their right mind would blame Cal for that season ending the way it did.
Todays loss was bad, as was Evansville. It happens. I fully expect to be a big contender at the end of this season like last year.
LOL, dead wrong (bolded). Villanova won two titles in 3 years with traditional lineups. UVA won a title in 2019 with a traditional lineup. UNC won a title in 2017 with veteran players. Duke won the 2015 title with mostly veterans. UConn 2014, Louisville 2013, UConn 2011, Duke 2010, UNC 2009, KU 2008… .I can keep going.
I didn't list 2012 UK, that team had 2 very key freshmen, but if there wasn't an NBA lockout, we don't get Jones, Miller and Lamb back and there would be no title.
This 2021 UK team has no shot and you better believe the core of this team will leave, so next year will be another extremely young team, they have no shot. How long are you willing to let Cal fool you?
Lol, almost evey team you just listed had highly recruited 5* players, many 1 or 2 and done.
Nova: Divencenzo, Brunson, Bridges, Spellman, Bey, Quinerly.
UVA: Denadre Hunter
UNC: Bradley. They also had other MC AA 5 star recruits that didn't develop until year 4. They also cheated.
Dukes stars and main lineuo were freshman. Jones, Okafor, Winslow and Allen. Allen hitting those shots in the F4 are what carried them.
UCONN I will give you. They were also a 9 seed and the highest ever to make it that far. Seems like an anomaly more than anything.
UL: Harrell, and they also cheated.
UCONN 2011 had Kemba, Drummond, Boatright, Bradley.
Sarr and Mintz will be gone because of age. Clarke and Boston will be lottery picks, as will jackson, likely. Other than that, most should be back unless they transfer.
Cal has never fooled me because I never developed unreal expectations. Lol.
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You need to go back and look at the rankings. The teams I listed, sans duke, rarely has a top 5 recruiting class.
Villanova rarely gets top 5 kids. Brunson was the 22nd ranked player in the 2015 class. Yeah, he was a 5*, barely. Their highest rated player in their 17 class was 46th, which is typical for them.
One guy on UVA 2019 was a 5*, but not a top 10 ranking.
Duke 2015 had a couple if key freshmen, but the team had more key veterans than freshmen, that was not a one and done team.
UNC is a little diffetent, they get 5* kids, but they rarely leave early, they usually stay 3 or 4 years. Their 2017 team was loaded with 5* players that were juniors and seniors.
The bottom line is, the teams winning titles are loaded with veterans, something Cal doesn't value.
Lol, I just listed off a shit ton and now you’re going to try to act like it wasn’t reality.
Not one of those teams won their title without a highly ranked and coveted 5*
Duke’s top 7 players that year were 4 freshman and a sophomore Matt Allen (also a 5* recruit). The other 2 players on that team, while upperclassman, were also 5* recruits Jefferson and Cook. So literally, their entire team that year was 5* players. Lol.
That’s because historically UNC athletes don’t have to partake in the educational side of things. They are also underdeveloped in their careers.
UVA literally lost with almost the exact same roster to a 16 seed as a 1 seed. Would you have been cool with that?
lol, you act like Cal hasn’t been trying to build veteran teams. What was last years team? The only freshman that played were Maxey and Brooks once Whitney left. Lol. Brooks returned and Juzang transferred. Neither were Cals fault.
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Didn’t read past do you want lower ranked recruits.
The point is, that ranking is all Cal considers And a lot of that ranking is based on future potential. It’s not about recruiting kids that can shoot and play basketball. It appears to be about athleticism and length.
Cal does not recruit parts that will fit together. Do you ever think he will?
Consider the dragon. That’s a kid that never should have been offered.
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Re your mentioning Dukes 5 stars.
It could be argued that some of them got that ranking because they signed with the Dukies.
Cook and Jefferson were nowhere near the top of their class. Jefferson was like the last 5 signed that year. Nobody really wanted him and he was at Duke for 5 years. Pretty important as a 5th year senior on a title team for them.
Cal isn't doing anything to build veteran rosters. What has Cal shown you that leads you to believe he strives to have veteran rosters.
Very funny on your analysis of UNC (don't have to go to class), yeah, it was funny, but you left out the part where their 2009 and 2017 teams were veteran rosters.
Duke had a highly rated pg and a highly rated center on their 2015 roster, but they had a strong core of veterans that pushed tgat team over the edge.
Yeah, UVA lost to a 16 seed, but what does that have to do with their title team? The style they play allows bad teams to hang around, that's on them, but the fact remains, they won a title in '19 and they had a veteran roster when they did it.
Again, Jay Wright had a couple of 5* recruits, but you're trying to say they were highly rated. Your definition of highly rated is different than mine. Brunson was the highest rated recruit and he was at 22. Yeah, he was a 5*, but he was no AD. Hell, he wasn't even Kevin Knox level. What they did have was Archidiacono, a 3* senior pg.
Veterans win titles man, it's been proven. I don't know how you can watch UK the last 5 years and think this is the way to go. 2009 through 2015 recruiting is not walking through that door man. This doesn't work without those types of recruits.
To me, this says it all.
This ship WOULD right. In a year or so. If we got most of our team back next year, we'd be where we want. But we'll figure out how to play high level basketball come March--and then we'll run into a team that's played good basketball for longer. Because they had most of their team come back.
But we keep recruiting kids and promoting the NBA. We keep losing 5+ every year. When the lower ranked guys aren't good enough to go pro after a year, they go anyways or transfer. They only came here because they thought they would be one and done.
And when kids are borderline 1st round or being drafted at all...we tell them to go and get paid. Duke tells Grayson Allen to come back. UNC gets 4 years out of Joel Berry, 2 years out of Kendall Marshall, 4 years out of Marcus Paige.
We push all our guys toward the light. We don't sell anyone on improving their draft stock. We shoot ourselves in the foot to sing we're players first. We love the players. As long as we take care of the players first, we'll reap the rewards.
Except we don't.
Uhh, the fact he has recruited multiple guys over the last few years that were expected to be multi year guys. Matthews, Gabriel, SKJ, SGA, Herro, Richards, Green, Juzang, Baker, Toppin, Ware, Fletcher, Allen, Askew. We tried to get the multi year kid from Evansville. Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head the last few years. Also, The fact the last 2 years have had several returners. Lol
2009 OAD wasn’t really a thing. They also were cheating. I am really confused why you want us to be like a team that was cheating for decades. That’s perplexing to say the least. Also, both of their teams were loaded with 5* players that were developed a lot slower than we do.
lol, Duke really didn’t though. Jones, Winslow and Okafor were there best players. All freshman. Matt Jones was their 4th best, he was a sophomore. Their best bench scorer was freshman Allen. Jefferson and Cook were their veteran players who contributed. Both also 5* players who developed slow.
Would you have been willing to lose to a 16 seed as a 1 to earn a title the next year? If that had been Cal, a fan would have shot him before the 2nd chance. They also had to rely on key freshman to get there. The Clarke kid was their missing piece.
Lol, Brunson was #16 according to ESPN and was the #1 or #2 guard in all rankings services. He was also IL mr basketball and wasn’t the only highly rated freshman they had.
Except UK and many other teams have relied on these veteran led teams and still lost way, way more times in the end of the season than we win. Even Cal is 1 for 3 with experienced teams in F4’s. It’s just not that easy if you really understand sports at this level. You’ll get there with a little age and wisdom though.
We think guys are going to be multi-year guys. Those guys themselves think Kentucky is the NBA machine. They come here because they love Cal's message of "I'll get you to the pro's." They aren't interested in the multi-year thing.
And when they aren't first round picks a year or 2 in--they think we've failed them. Because...we promised the NBA. That's why you'd come to Kentucky. So they go pro anyways. Or they transfer.
The problem is, Cal keeps bringing in these 5* kids that are rated just high enough to get you excited, but they aren't transcendent talents that can carry a team. But they have measurables and that means they will never see a 2nd year at UK.
Mintz and Sarr will he gone. Clarke and Boston are gone, Jackson is gone. Allen will transfer and it's possible that Askew transfers.
Rinse snd repeat.
Also, if we lost to a 16 seed and then won it all the next year, there would be a lot less angst among the fans. Championships cure the bad seasons, the slow starts, losing the entire team year after year.
Cal doesn’t promise them NBA in year one to two. He tells them if they come work they can earn that themselves. Many of them just see a chance and don’t properly weigh the risks. Some just don’t like the pressure and leave for elsewhere. That isn’t Cal’s. Should he say if you come here don’t aspire to get better, developed or move to the next level? Sounds like a great recruiting pitch!
Lol at you if you think these kids come to UK to stay.
Also, who told you Cal is trying to recruit multi year players? Where did you get that from?
Oh yeah, I'm sure Cal didn't intend set up those pro days to showcase our guys to all those NBA guys.
You're clueless. Everything Cal does in this program is designed to prepare his players for the NBA.
Lastly, if you see players transferring and leaving for the GL afrer 2 years and you can't figure out why, you're the problem.
Yup. The transcendent talents see Ben Simmons go to LSU and go #1, Edwards go to UGA and go #1. You can go wherever. The myth that you need to go to Kentucky to be a top draft pick is dead and gone. And you can't have high level success without those transcendent recruits.
Cade Cunningham on this team changes everything.
We wouldn’t have fans left. Also, when you think UVA basketball, do you think title or first team ever to lose to a #16 seed as a #1? And blown out at that!
Just keep the NBA language out of it. Forget the pro days, get the NBA program shit out and promote UK basketball. Cal promotes the NBA, you're a fool if you can't see it.
Perception is reality, man.
17-18 year old kids think they are working hard. They think they'll come here and be great. They've been great all their lives. All they hear is Cal will get them to the NBA. Doesn't matter how you preface it, people see us as the NBA place. And if we're recruiting you, you must be good enough to be one and done.
Cal can say all the right things. Kids ignore the parts they don't like and come here expecting to go one and done. If that wasn't the case...more of them would come back.
Check this out:
Roy Williams - 3 titles - 4 million dollar salary
Jay Wright - 2 titles - 4 million dollar salary
Coach K - 5 titles - 7.25 million dollar salary
Cal - 1 title - 9.5 million dollar salary and a 60 million dollar buyout
Is UK getting it's moneys worth? At 10 million a year, Cal should put UK first and he should do everything in his power to win titles. He's laughing all the way to the bank right niw because he's stealing money.
Roy Williams - 3 titles - 4 million dollar salary
Jay Wright - 2 titles - 4 million dollar salary
Coach K - 5 titles - 7.25 million dollar salary
Cal - 1 title - 9.5 million dollar salary and a 60 million dollar buyout
Is UK getting it's moneys worth? At 10 million a year, Cal should put UK first and he should do everything in his power to win titles. He's laughing all the way to the bank right niw because he's stealing money.
I think it's pretty obvious when you look at who were recruiting now that he's trying to bring him some players that are multi year guys. When you go back and look at SGA, Herro, Green, Richards, Washington, SKJ, Gabriel, Humphries, Wynyard, Quickley and so on. Look at several players on this year's team like: Toppin, Ware, Fletcher, Askew and Allen. Those are all multi year guys that think he projects to be here for at least 2 years or more. I think the original belief was Jackson might be on that list. He is going to play his way into the lottery.
Did you honestly expect these guys to be OAD or transfer out?
Of course Cal sells the NBA. Do you honestly believe every coach isn't selling the same BS to that caliber player. If you were a recruiter and told a high level recruit you only cared about their college career and nothing after, how well do you expect you would do? Hell, even if you just said you don't really focus on the NBA, how well you anticipate that would go over? Recruiters are saleman. You sell what gets you the deal!
Lol, now I am the problem, too? It sounds to me like you're someone who is mad as hell but hasn't yet figured out who or what they are mad at...
Problem with that logic is far more of our players haven't been one and done than have. While I am sure most of these kids want to end up a OAD if the opportunity presents itself, any idiot with elementary math should be able to see the odds aren't exactly in their favor, even at UK.
Thank God for that buyout. At least they can't realistically fire him anytime soon. We have a few more years before some of you hijack and derail the program for years to come.
