The ship will right

[ManitouDan]

Nov to Jan- Terrible basketball. 3 to 5 good minutes per game

Jan to feb- Sparks start to show. 10 to 15 good minutes per game

Feb to- good basketball.

Mar to Apr- hit tournament with a good chance to go far

same story every year when you have 100% turnover.

we will be fine, but a lot of hard to watch basketball for awhile.

The larger question is this , Is that -- being terrible for 2-3 months at UK acceptable ? The March pay off better be huuuuge if we are going to accept terrible basketball for months . FWIW thats not what I've witnessed in my 45 years of following us. Yeah we have bad games on occasion , everyone does , but the book for the future has always been unwritten .. now we know the future , new dudes every year, poor basketball every winter . Should we shrug , set back , and start tuning in in FEB when we resemble a team ( on some nights , some we never do )

 

[STL_Cat]

I still think this winds up Cal’s third best team after 2012 and 2015.

Wow. Woooooow.

 

[Will Bithers]

The larger question is this , Is that -- being terrible for 2-3 months at UK acceptable ? The March pay off better be huuuuge if we are going to accept terrible basketball for months . FWIW thats not what I've witnessed in my 45 years of following us. Yeah we have bad games on occasion , everyone does , but the book for the future has always been unwritten .. now we know the future , new dudes every year, poor basketball every winter . Should we shrug , set back , and start tuning in in FEB when we resemble a team ( on some nights , some we never do )

What are you defining as terrible? Do you consider losing to 2 ranked teams early in the season terrible? Particularly when you have an entirely new roster and no real pre-season to adjust?

What years recently have been terrible early on?

 

[ganner918]

Increased weight training, maladjustment to increased speed of the game, and heightened anxiety level can all have an influence. Until all these factors are accommodated by the player mechanics can be off.

Taking bad shots and- rushing shots fit in with a couple of those you mentioned. Look at some of the wild layups our guys have attempted. They didn't forget how to take a layup, they aren't used to the kind of defense they're seeing and are wildly flinging it toward the goal.

 

[STL_Cat]

What are you defining as terrible? Do you consider losing to 2 ranked teams early in the season terrible? Particularly when you have an entirely new roster and no real pre-season to adjust?

What years recently have been terrible early on?

Losing to Evansville, then Ohio State and Utah in back to back games last year comes to mind

 

[Will Bithers]

Losing to Evansville, then Ohio State and Utah in back to back games last year comes to mind

Lol, the evansville loss was the only bad one. We also beat #1 MSU and #3 UL. OSU was #5 when we lost to them and was favored. Try again!

 

[BradleyCrawford08]

No doubt in my mind that the team will improve by the time March rolls around. I just hope that our seed line isn’t killed by then. Need to start winning these non conference games to help our tournament resume. As everyone knows from past seasons, we always have a target on our back in the SEC and will probably drop a few games there so we need to bolster the record now while we have the better teams in front of us to play.

 

[ManitouDan]

What are you defining as terrible? Do you consider losing to 2 ranked teams early in the season terrible? Particularly when you have an entirely new roster and no real pre-season to adjust?

What years recently have been terrible early on?

This year . We just disagree on what terrible is.

 

[STL_Cat]

Lol, the evansville loss was the only bad one. We also beat #1 MSU and #3 UL. OSU was #5 when we lost to them and was favored. Try again!

I’m sorry, I thought I was on a Kentucky basketball board. Maybe you thought this was an Indiana board? The combination of losing to Evansville, Utah, and Ohio state as a cumulative is pretty terrible by UK standards

 

[G-PIP]

Clarke should be the one running the show. He has handles and a good passing ability.
Move Mintz to the 2 where he will thrive. Park Askew on the lane and left him se how this has to go. He's a 3 year guy, hopefully he stays, we need some veterans.

Yeah, eventually Cal we'll right the ship, we get that, but it's always a struggle and a fight to get there and the losses to our rivals and mid major programs in Rupp are piling up. Even the pumpers in this board have to see that.

Also, keep in mind, this is a shortened season, 10 losses might mean you’re out of the tournament. We already have 2 losses after 3 games. It's not a good position to be in, because this team is really behind, especially knowing the fact they have been practicing for 5 months.

Your idea about Clarke at PG is interesting, and might work out well. Just as well might not, but it might. For example, Mintz is not the greatest distributor or quarterback for an offense; but he is a good shooter - maybe our best in-game shooter because he's comfortable with the speed and competition at this level. So I agree that he would be fine as a college 2G.

My concern, however, is with Clarke running the offense. I don't agree that he has a good handle or good passing ability. He has an ok handle and ok passing ability, although maybe considered good for a 6'7" freshman SF. Now maybe you live with that and on the whole it turns out to be what makes the team work best. But I'm skeptical. Right now I'm still in the camp wanting Mintz to be the PG. If that doesn't work, then I'm all in for your plan.

 

[Will Bithers]

This year . We just disagree on what terrible is.

If you think losing to 2 ranked and experienced teams during the first 3 games of the season with an entirely new cast is terrible, then you just have ignorantly unrealistic expectations.

 

[Will Bithers]

I’m sorry, I thought I was on a Kentucky basketball board. Maybe you thought this was an Indiana board? The combination of losing to Evansville, Utah, and Ohio state as a cumulative is pretty terrible by UK standards

Evansville was a bad loss, even though we were missing players for that game. However, losing to the #5 team is never really that bad. Also, besting 2 top 5 teams in that same period isn't bad either. 😂

 

[STL_Cat]

If you think losing to 2 ranked and experienced teams during the first 3 games of the season with an entirely new cast is terrible, then you just have ignorantly unrealistic expectations.

To be fair, Richmond right now is ranked because they beat us. There was a time in Kentucky basketball history when losing to Richmond at home was terrible no matter what. I guess it’s not that time anymore.

 

[Dncmaxwell]

The larger question is this , Is that -- being terrible for 2-3 months at UK acceptable ? The March pay off better be huuuuge if we are going to accept terrible basketball for months . FWIW thats not what I've witnessed in my 45 years of following us. Yeah we have bad games on occasion , everyone does , but the book for the future has always been unwritten .. now we know the future , new dudes every year, poor basketball every winter . Should we shrug , set back , and start tuning in in FEB when we resemble a team ( on some nights , some we never do )

I’m not gonna disagree the last few years have slid. Watching the Evansville game versus Kentucky....well....it was embarrassing

 

[bookerfan66]

If you think losing to 2 ranked and experienced teams during the first 3 games of the season with an entirely new cast is terrible, then you just have ignorantly unrealistic expectations.

Did you actually watch those 2 games?Richmond didn't just beat us but blew us out on our home floor.Kansas played about as bad as possible and we still lost.It's not just that we lost but how inept we are on offense.

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

I feel like if we ran ball screen handoffs with Clarke and Boston receiving the handoff it could be effective because they will already have some space from the screen with momentum heading towards the basket when they get the ball. Takes an opponent big out of the lane and/or gets them a mismatch they could punish.

Doesn’t seem like Calipari ever does that, am I wrong in that regard?

 

[MegaBlue05]

But gloom and doom and if the basketball team isn’t perfect my self esteem suffers and I take it personally.

 

[MojoYamamoto]

As long as the team improves and has a shot at winning it in March I will be okay with the season. I don't really care about what seed we get any more. Seems like when we do get a high seed, we get the worst draw possible. You are going to have to beat good teams to win. Might as well start facing them early in the tournament and maybe get confidence and on a roll.

 

[yoshukai]

If you think losing to 2 ranked and experienced teams during the first 3 games of the season with an entirely new cast is terrible, then you just have ignorantly unrealistic expectations.

I’m thinking the “entirely new cast” thing is the main thing people are complaining about .

 

[SmyrnaCatFan]

I feel like if we ran ball screen handoffs with Clarke and Boston receiving the handoff it could be effective because they will already have some space from the screen with momentum heading towards the basket when they get the ball. Takes an opponent big out of the lane and/or gets them a mismatch they could punish.

Doesn’t seem like Calipari ever does that, am I wrong in that regard?

I would like to see some effective screens or players using the screens effectively, it does take two. The screens look very much like matador cape work that gains us no advantage. That can be easily fixed with willing learners.

 

[Blue Bigfoot]

I have a serious question. How can a kids shot get broken in just a matter of months when he has been shooting the same way for years ?

We see this every year with Cal's teams. He runs their legs off early in the season, and even great shooters like Herro, Booker, Monk, Murray, Young etc. etc. can't hit the broad side of a barn for half the season.

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

The best path forward may be to get Sarr and Mintz heavily involved in the offense and let the freshmen come along slowly.

This should've been the game plan from the opening tip. It's the thing about Cal's coaching that gripes me the most: he plays potential over performance too much. This is what ends up pissing off our multi-year guys and causing them to transfer before they get the chance to really help the team.

 

[CondorCat]

Can our five stars learn to shoot as well as a bunch of girls? After 3 games:

3 Point Shooting
UK Men's Team: 9-47 19%
UK Women's Team: 17-69 25%

FT Shooting
UK Men's Team: 44-67 66%
UK Women's Team: 33-48 69%

 

[morgousky]

If you think losing to 2 ranked and experienced teams during the first 3 games of the season with an entirely new cast is terrible, then you just have ignorantly unrealistic expectations.

Ah, you're trolling. Not bad, you had me for a minute.

 

[Blue Bigfoot]

I’m thinking the “entirely new cast” thing is the main thing people are complaining about .

Well it isn't like Cal isn't bringing in 4* stars and transfers to mitigate that somewhat. I mean, when 4* stars are getting drafted after one year, what are we supposed to do? He could bring in 2 & 3 stars who would stay multiple years, but then most of the same ones here complaining about losing to Kansas and Richmond, would lose their minds with multiple 10+ loss seasons. Now, I would like Cal to push coming back for next year, for a lot of these guys who have NO business leaving college. But I'm not privy to their discussions, so I can't say he's not doing that. Truth is, the name "Kentucky" has became synonymous with "One & Done," and that has been a double edged sword, and a monster of our own making to some degree. OK, I'm all out of clichés for today.

 

[yoshukai]

Well it isn't like Cal isn't bringing in 4* stars and transfers to mitigate that somewhat. I mean, when 4* stars are getting drafted after one year, what are we supposed to do? He could bring in 2 & 3 stars who would stay multiple years, but then most of the same ones here complaining about losing to Kansas and Richmond, would lose their minds with multiple 10+ loss seasons. Now, I would like Cal to push coming back for next year, for a lot of these guys who have NO business leaving college. But I'm not privy to their discussions, so I can't say he's not doing that. Truth is, the name "Kentucky" has became synonymous with "One & Done," and that has been a double edged sword, and a monster of our own making to some degree.

I completely agree with you . If the guys that SHOULDNT leave early would stay and not transfer AND if Cal would let them play along with the lottery guys , problem solved . But seems like every kid that comes here thinks he has a self imposed limit of 2 years . I don’t know how you change that .

 

[morgousky]

Well it isn't like Cal isn't bringing in 4* stars and transfers to mitigate that somewhat. I mean, when 4* stars are getting drafted after one year, what are we supposed to do? He could bring in 2 & 3 stars who would stay multiple years, but then most of the same ones here complaining about losing to Kansas and Richmond, would lose their minds with multiple 10+ loss seasons. Now, I would like Cal to push coming back for next year, for a lot of these guys who have NO business leaving college. But I'm not privy to their discussions, so I can't say he's not doing that. Truth is, the name "Kentucky" has became synonymous with "One & Done," and that has been a double edged sword, and a monster of our own making to some degree.

Not our making, or UK's making, but Cal's making.

No other coach has these issues but John Calipari. It is a choice that he made for relationships and being known as the NBA players coach. It's nothing more, nothing less.

 

[TOMCATS1990]

I still think this winds up Cal’s third best team after 2012 and 2015.

2010 might better then all of them. This team isn’t going to be better then that. Was a good ride in 2010. Boogie says ( CALL ME)

 

[ManitouDan]

Looks like ole withered Bill just laughs when he gets cornered . Whatever , its a message board .

 

[SmyrnaCatFan]

Several years ago, the university where I taught had drastic enrollment dropoff among freshmen from fall to spring. We instituted a retention program to cut that drop. The mantra is that it is easier and less expensive to recruit students you already have. Obviously, you still have to recruit new students but you also need to retain the students you already have, for their sake and your institution's sake. I would like to see more effort in retaining talent.

 

[Blue Bigfoot]

To be fair, Richmond right now is ranked because they beat us. There was a time in Kentucky basketball history when losing to Richmond at home was terrible no matter what. I guess it’s not that time anymore.

There was also a time when Richmond was considered a cupcake. They aren't anymore, regardless of their goofy spider mascot. 🕷

 

[Blue Bigfoot]

Not our making, or UK's making, but Cal's making.

No other coach has these issues but John Calipari. It is a choice that he made for relationships and being known as the NBA players coach. It's nothing more, nothing less.

Yeah, Cal really had to twist our arm's to get us to accept # 1, or the occasional #2 classes every damn year. Excuse me while I break out in an old African-American spiritual:

Nobody knows the trouble I've seen
Nobody knows my sorrow
Nobody knows the trouble I've seen
Glory, Hallelujah
Nobody knows the trouble I've seen
Nobody knows but Jesus
What that mean Cal has done to us....

 

[G-PIP]

Well it isn't like Cal isn't bringing in 4* stars and transfers to mitigate that somewhat. I mean, when 4* stars are getting drafted after one year, what are we supposed to do? He could bring in 2 & 3 stars who would stay multiple years, but then most of the same ones here complaining about losing to Kansas and Richmond, would lose their minds with multiple 10+ loss seasons. Now, I would like Cal to push coming back for next year, for a lot of these guys who have NO business leaving college. But I'm not privy to their discussions, so I can't say he's not doing that. Truth is, the name "Kentucky" has became synonymous with "One & Done," and that has been a double edged sword, and a monster of our own making to some degree. OK, I'm all out of clichés for today.

And there's going to be unexpected transfers and early draft entrees no matter how much roster retention efforts a coach undertakes. But, I do think roster construction forecasting and planning are becoming even more important now. The turnover (or at least risk of turnover) is even greater now with the new transfer rule and G-league (or whatever name it goes by these days). Personally, I'm fine with a roster built mainly by stacking recruiting classes and adding experienced transfers, with very few one-and-done players. I understand I might be wrong, but most of the time I would take my chances with a good upperclassman college player (e.g., a soph/junior Allen) over a 5-star freshman SF that can't shoot (yet).

 

[crawfords corner]

Ill tell you why Im not discouraged or worried.

When young players struggle with their offense it deeply affects their defense. Guess what. It hasn't so far with these guys. Take Devin Askew for instance. I'd suggest going back and watching him on that end. He's been very good. While mentioning defense, did you guys know that the guard who defended Askew in the Richmond game is one of the best defensive players(guards) in the country. How about Marcus Garrett. You guys realize that he is an elite defender. Right up there with Hagans, Dotson, and Jones of Duke last year. Oh, by the way, both are Seniors. I don't want to excuse some of his bad decisions, but can't you blame some of that on unfamilarity with how his teammates play in games and learning to play PG how Coach Cal is going to want him to. It takes a while to build that.


If these guys are struggling and start to lose it on the defensive end with lazy play and disinterest then Ill be worried. Until then there is a learning curve whether you like it or not. Blame Coach Cal. Just leave your player attacks in silent mode.

 

[BlueSince92]

If you think losing to 2 ranked and experienced teams during the first 3 games of the season with an entirely new cast is terrible, then you just have ignorantly unrealistic expectations.

But I think MD’s whole point is that the “with an entirely new cast” every year part is a new aspect coming into UK basketball, an intrusion if you want to call it that, and shouldn’t necessarily be given a free pass to come on in.

Why is it allowed in?

• It makes for ugly, often seed-dropping basketball—the kind of basketball that needs to be justified or explained (by qualifications like “...with an entirely new cast...”).

• It’s definitely not what we intentionally brought John Calipari here for. Because John Calipari never did this before he came to UK. No coach anywhere (college, high school, AAU, or pro) had ever done this yearly total makeover thing before John Calipari came to UK. We hired the Memphis coach, who then came here and did something he never did at Memphis or at UMass. Maybe that’s good and maybe that’s bad. But let’s not be afraid to talk about it either way.

Set aside how we feel about it for a minute. We really are averaging more and bigger early losses the past five years than we ever did before over a consistent period that long. That’s just a matter of history and we should all agree on it.

Now we can move ahead and bring our feelings and opinions into it. Is this new trend a good thing or a bad thing? Is it a short-term bad thing that earns us a long-term good thing?

 

[RunninRichie]

Nov to Jan- Terrible basketball. 3 to 5 good minutes per game

Jan to feb- Sparks start to show. 10 to 15 good minutes per game

Feb to- good basketball.

Mar to Apr- hit tournament with a good chance to go far

same story every year when you have 100% turnover.

we will be fine, but a lot of hard to watch basketball for awhile.

you forgot lose in elite 8 because we can’t hit a 3

 

[TheWyldKat]

It is what it is. 2014 racked up a horrible record, got a bad seed but still would have won it all if WCS didn't get injured.
We still don't know what kind of record this team will have anyway. The 2017 team with Monk and Fox lost at home to UCLA, lost to Louisville, LOST 3 of 4 games in late January/early February, when most would think a team would be solidifying, but went on, grew and by the time we were robbed in the regional final by the roofaree, may have been the best team in the country.

Fox, Monk and Bams Team look nowhere near as bad as this team. They played pretty good out the gate. Yes had some bad losses but were able to move the ball and play half decent basketball. I’m sure this team will get better, there’s no doubt about that but there are way more glaring holes and deficiencies in this team than any of the past four or five years. We had De’Aaron fox on that team who is a hell of a point guard. We don’t have that this year. That’s troubling.

 

[anon_013cn8yrfncx2]

Who on this team is as good

It is what it is. 2014 racked up a horrible record, got a bad seed but still would have won it all if WCS didn't get injured.
We still don't know what kind of record this team will have anyway. The 2017 team with Monk and Fox lost at home to UCLA, lost to Louisville, LOST 3 of 4 games in late January/early February, when most would think a team would be solidifying, but went on, grew and by the time we were robbed in the regional final by the roofaree, may have been the best team in the country.

Who on this team is as good as Fox, Monk, and/or Bam

Oh well here was my first thot when I saw the thread.

Raise the Titanic

 

[Blueaz]

I'm just glad Morg and Cutnets like each other

 

[Madcat62]

Boston's shot is broken at the moment it will return. Saar is key to keep on the floor. Mintz needs to run the show and give Askew two time.. yes I'm discouraged but I have faith.

each year the new one and done take piority over upperclassmen and the team its not about championships its about draft day.