I agree somewhat on this but WHY i we not seeing this at other schools who have freshmen playing but are hitting this shots ? I am sure they are doing weight training and getting use to increased speed of the game.
The ship will right
- Thread starter davekersey
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I agree somewhat on this but WHY i we not seeing this at other schools who have freshmen playing but are hitting this shots ? I am sure they are doing weight training and getting use to increased speed of the game.
Good question, I was just responding to why could a shot be broken. People accommodate new stressors in their own time within their practice/play environment. Don't know all the answers or reasons.
Me and Monkey still believe in Cal and our team. If you don’t like it you can Kiss the Monkeys @ss.
Somewhere Briscoe is playing basketball right now and he just stepped out of bounds as you posted this. He sure did have an uncanny knack for that. I liked Briscoe but that was a maddening trait of his.
While Fox, Monk, and Adebayo looked promising early on, this team doesn't have the holes that team had at the SF and PF spot (Clarke or Boston are more natural at SF than Briscoe). This team also has more quality depth in the frontcourt too.
I clearly remember this board being in crisis mode with that team when they hit a slump in late January, and they looked every bit as unimpressive in road losses to Tennessee and Florida.
Or a free throw? A few tough ones there.
Through past comments, Cal set the expectations for Kentucky basketball to be like the current expectations for Alabama football. Saban has been able to maximize his players' stock value AND SIMULTANEOUSLY compete for championships on an annual basis.
Cal does have the ability to create a dominate team each year. However, Cal values more that he help get the most players to the league as possible because it changes the players' lives and the players' families lives tremendously. I applaud Cal for helping as many as he can.
Our offense is based on a player creating his own shot or based on plays that will showcase that players ability to complete said play/shot at the next level. We don't see an offensive scheme that involves the entire team working together (i.e., moving without the ball, and passing). Our players without the ball stand still out of the way unless they are the one player setting the screen. This type of offense will create some exciting games here and there December/January/February. Then we get to the tournament in March and face a team that will pack the middle (taking the player specific plays away) and dare us to shoot from the outside.
Cal does not put a premium on being the dominant team or winning championships. He simply does not. Championship teams and dominant teams are lower on his priority list. I think Cal is fine if he never wins another title - as long as he is changing the lives of families each year. He is also fine if we do win another title under his watch, but he is not bothered if it does not happen.
Kentucky fans want to be in contention for a title each year which is not unrealistic. We love basketball and want to see good basketball throughout the season and especially in the tournament.
Cal does have the ability to create a dominate team each year. However, Cal values more that he help get the most players to the league as possible because it changes the players' lives and the players' families lives tremendously. I applaud Cal for helping as many as he can.
Our offense is based on a player creating his own shot or based on plays that will showcase that players ability to complete said play/shot at the next level. We don't see an offensive scheme that involves the entire team working together (i.e., moving without the ball, and passing). Our players without the ball stand still out of the way unless they are the one player setting the screen. This type of offense will create some exciting games here and there December/January/February. Then we get to the tournament in March and face a team that will pack the middle (taking the player specific plays away) and dare us to shoot from the outside.
Cal does not put a premium on being the dominant team or winning championships. He simply does not. Championship teams and dominant teams are lower on his priority list. I think Cal is fine if he never wins another title - as long as he is changing the lives of families each year. He is also fine if we do win another title under his watch, but he is not bothered if it does not happen.
Kentucky fans want to be in contention for a title each year which is not unrealistic. We love basketball and want to see good basketball throughout the season and especially in the tournament.
Everybody knows the team will get better. The question I have is will they get better enough.
We’ll lose because of poor 3 point shooting and poor free throw shooting
I have never expected anything until Jan and feb fir our teams to learn the offense and defensive rotations it’s been that way from day one
Well, right niw, Clarke is a little lost, he doesn't know what to do or where to be. Out the ball in his hands now and maybe by February, he'll be a decent pg.
Thst puts Mintz at the 2 others he belongs.
And that’s the thing that always gets overlooked when people are in a rush to say “they’re always there in March.” The losses in March look a lot like the losses in November and December. Go look at the tournament losses since Calipari has been here and they all look remarkably the same. The shooting splits are just dreadful.
the issue is that formula isn't many fans definition of fine.
the term "the juice isn't worth the squeeze" is a good fit for how I would describe it.
Tolerate watching garbage basketball for much of the season only to be told that an elite 8 with NBA talent was a success.
I get that no one wants to admit this, but there was sort of an implied agreement between Cal and the fan base - that agreement was you can bring in mercenaries to the program to pretend to be college students as long as you win titles. At first it worked, then increased competition from other programs getting their one and dones, and Cal applying for sainthood made the process much less results oriented.
The end result is UK fans rationalizing whatever it is we have at the moment as UK basketball. Its not a formula for consistent success, its buying lottery tickets, hoping one day you get the right combination of numbers that pays off - with seemingly similar odds .
Few fans want roster turnover that results in bad basketball, constant excuses and now, what appears to be building contempt for the fanbase expectations that Cal himself set. "we'll recruit the best of the best of the best" "We are the gold standard of college basketball"
Stand and deliver Cal - stand and deliver.
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Yes they will get better but will not win 6 games in a row in Tourney with Poor 3 and FT shooting.
It was a consistent formula until Duke, Arizona and Will Wade started making “sweet ass offers”.
that said, since the NCAA doesn’t care about bag men, I agree we need to change the model...
Agree....move Mintz and Askew to the 2. Neither have the quickness to break down the defense. Clarke can at least drive, dish, or finish (hopefully)
Yup just comes down to if Clarke can slow down and make the right read.
What would your solution be?
You are either going to have to pass on recruiting some of the best talent and available players in order to get lower ranked guys who will be multi year players. That you hope don't transfer and actually develop. Or you can recruit the higher ranked ones and underdeveloped them in hopes they won't get drafted. Neither is going to have the outcome you are hoping for. The rule sucks, I will agree with that, but Cal and the players can only deal with what theybare given.
Last I checked we brought Cal in because he recruited great players and put his teams in contention to win pretty regularly. Seems he has been doing that here.
But we really aren't. Go look at the avg and you will see we lost a couple of early games on avg during his first 5 years and we have done the same these last 5. Typically between 2 and except for the Wall team that went unbeaten until a shitty USC team beat them. Then we also lost to UT that year. The Davis team only lost 1 game in the regular season to IU. Those were the only teams duing Cal's first 5 to not lose 2 or more early season games. His 6th team, the undefeated team, was the only other group to share that record. So, now, 9 out of his 12 teams have had multiple early season losses. It's not as detrimental as you think.
but that is what he is doing now - he is bringing in graduate transfers , players that he wouldn't have recruited as freshmen to UK, but guys that have developed somewhere else. The problem is they have to learn his system, get in shape and play into the rotation like everyone else. So to bring those 3 guys in this year did he pass on recruiting some of the best freshmen talent available? Seems that's a pretty big hole in your logic.
UK would be a much better team if the 3 guys we have now would have been developed here as freshmen. I'd argue that would benefit UK by providing consistent play early in the season and overcome some of the pressure of not knowing how to win games in a deep tourney run. That consistent play would prevent at least some of these early season head scratching losses, resulting in better seeds for the tournament. The tournament experience would help prevent a team going off the rails when they face a disciplined veteran team. There are players out there that would be content to ride the bench , develop and earn their minutes as a veteran player -IF Cal would commit to it. But stubborn Cal doesn't want 3 or 4 guys clogging up his bench and more importantly, his pipeline to the NBA, and he'll continually commit to minutes for a kid based on potential like Askew, Hagans or Diallo over a known quantity veteran player.
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And you can get young athletes playing better together during the year to the point of consistently beating inferior talent but when you get into the second weekend of the tourney you get to teams with skill, experience, and similar athleticism...and they out execute.
Recruit skill, set expectations in the recruiting discussions, treat all players the same once they are on campus. Whitney is a perfect example of what not to recruit.
Concentrate on recruiting elite PGs (that can shoot) and bigs and surround them with multi year and grad transfer wings and PFs.
Stop screaming while they are running offense. (my personal pet peeve)
We already do recruit skill. We typically end up with more of it that anyone.
Whitney was a highly coveted recruit no one expected to be a bust or even a major project. Je was getting comparisons to MKG. He just mentally and emotionally wasn't tough enough to withstand the pressure and physicality of the jump for HS to college.
Lol, we had an elite PG just last year that a shit ton of people on here wanted gone bad. All because he made a couple goofy mistakes as a 19 yo kid. Now those same people want him back and wonder why we can't get players to stick around. LMAO. Before him there was SGA, Fox, Murray, Ulis, and so on. I don't think elite PG has really been a problem until this year. Part of the issue is the main one we recruited opted to help his brother. We still recruited and got a top rated one.
What quality wings and bigs that were grad transfera did we not get or go after? What wings are going to come play behind Clarke, Boston, Brooks, Fletcher, Allen and so on?
Lol, it's called coaching. If you can't handle it, don't play.
Lol, what?
Most of the grad transfers we have brought in started and were some of our best players. Reid Travis was a guy we would have recruited early. I think we did if I recall correctly. Sarr was an international kid. Toppin is someone Cal would typically go after just on athleticism alone. Mintz was obviously brought in to fill a whole left.
Did he pass or did they opt for other school? Cade Cunningham was our biggest target of the class. He opted to support his brother. Lol, how is that a hole in the logic?
Lol, if we had used spots like that on them, we likely don't end up with SGA, Nick Richards, Hagans and others. Are you willing to give those guys up for Sarr, Mintz and Toppin? To me it looks like Sarr and Mintz were developed just fine where they went. Sarr is probably the best player on the team as of now.
Lol, even the teams we have had that returned players lost a early season games. The only 2 that didn't were the Wall team and the Towns team. The Wall team lost to a horrific USC and TN teams though. They also fell to WVU. Most teams lose some games. It's going to happen to matter how you build the team.
How did those experienced teams finish in 2010? 2015? 2019? IIRC, didn't they all still go off the rails? What about last year? Weren't they pretty experienced? Didn't they too lose some head scratchers early?
Lol, Cal isn't going to lie and lead on players he knows won't make it or last here. Why didn’t Baker stay and "develop"? Juzang? Charles Matthews? SKJ? Marcus Lee? Wiltjer? Poole? Green? Cal can't force them to stay. He also can't really play them when they suck. Obviously sitting and developing wasn't an option for those guys. So who do you know that is a reasonable talent for UK that wants to come sit and develop to hopefully get their turn?
Askew is the exact type of player you are wanting supposedly. He is obviously a multi-year guy who needs to develop. Now you are bitching about him being here and being developed. That sounds like a major flaw in your logic.
Hagans was a great player. Not having him is a big part of why we struggle right now.
I assume you think you made a point in all of that. You did not.
when you lead a paragraph with LOL, not once but 4 times, the post quality speaks for itself.
He speaks the truth, you are just spouting off the danglers talking points. If you love Cal, fine, own up to it. You and about 5 more on this board think everyone is rosey, most on here see major problems and a bad trend since 2015. Say what you like about Cal and let us all move on. But, don't piss on my leg and tell me it is raining.
BTW, what was your last user name on here?
What does everyone else do? See, nobody has answered this and I've asked it a thousand times.
What does Michigan State, Gonzaga, Virginia, uNC, Florida, Villinova, Wisconsin, Kansas, Baylor… .everyone not named UK and duke… .what do they do?
I have a theory, I mean, maybe we can try to NOT do pro days, NOT prioritize the NBA draft, allow all our players to play through mistakes, not just the NBA prospects. We could stop taking more than 1 or 2 non top 10 5* kids that are just athletes, but are on the NBA's radar, because they're long & athletic. They come here and have to be taught how to walk and chew gum most of the year, then leave, because they made a couple shots against Wofford in the NCAAT.
Look at Tyrese Maxey. What exactly did he do at UK? What did Diallo do? Kevin Knox, Sasha Killeya Jones, Wenyen, Vanderbilt, Quade etc… I mean, Isaiah Brick-so left after 2 years, for what? Overseas? Don't you think that's a problem? How do you build a program when these guys refuse to stay any longer than 2 years whether they accomplished anything or not. Some of these guys were, apparently, told by Cal to come back, but left anyway. Know why? Because they had it in their minds that they are not staying here more than 2 years.
Gotta stop bringing guys in that are only coming here to sharpen their skills and leave after a year or two. Especially the ones that are athletic, but have no skills.
If you land a couple top 10, or… ..GASP… ..a top 5 kid, fine, but if you want to fix this, start prioritizing UK basketball and Juniors and seniors. You can't deny that Cal prioririzes the NBA draft, that's very obvious, buy you're playing coy with that.
You guys act like this isn't just happening at UK. Even duke has upperclassmen, we're the only idiots that aren't retaining players.
Well we had a guy healthy enough to show off for the scouts at PRO DAY! and throw down nasty dunks with no signs of a lower body injury but not healthy enough to play in games still nearly a month after that. Take that for what you will
Man, there is soooo much wrong in this post.
You seriously don't unserstand why all those guys transfered do you? Have you not been paying attention? Look what's happening to Allen right now. One mistake and he has to watch the rest of the game from the bench, meanwhile the all star freshmen get to stink it up all game and stay in. Same things happened to all those other players.
Are you seriously saying the losses to S. Carolina and UT in 2010 and the loss to Wisconsin in 2015 is the same as what's happening now? You said those teams went off the rails… what? You said those teams lost some head scratchers… what? No, Evansville, K-State, Indiana, Auburn and Richmond ard head scratchers.
Yeah, Askew is the type of player we want… .but in order for it to work, he needs to stay here beyond his sophomore year, but you know he won't and that's the problem. Look around the country, guys like Askew aren't jumping to the GL or overseas after 2 years at Michigan State, Nova, UVA etc… . this is a UK thing.
On the Hagans issue, we wanted him here, but you can't deny that his turnovers were an issue, something that would have been fixed with more time at UK, he chose to leave even though he wasn't getting drafted. Also, he was a head case, what he did to cost us the UT game last year and the E8 Auburn game are tough to get past for some. I wish he stayed, but he made a choice, which is the same choice most current UK project players make before they mature.
I need to reread your post again, you can't be as oblivious as I think you are.
Yup, read it again, you truly are oblivious.
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I see @Will Bithers laughing at my posts, but that means he's going to be another pumper that doesn't have an answer or response to all the things that were said or asked. Typical.
Not one pumper has answered the question: what is everyone else doing? Why is everyone else retaining their players until they graduate and we can't retain project players beyond their sophomore years?
How is Villanova, uNC, UVA, MSU, UT, KU etc able to put really good juniors and seniors on the floor and we struggle to field guys beyond their sophomore years? Can anyone answer this?
I know the answers, but it doesn't appear that the Cal first fans want to answer those things.
Not one pumper has answered the question: what is everyone else doing? Why is everyone else retaining their players until they graduate and we can't retain project players beyond their sophomore years?
How is Villanova, uNC, UVA, MSU, UT, KU etc able to put really good juniors and seniors on the floor and we struggle to field guys beyond their sophomore years? Can anyone answer this?
I know the answers, but it doesn't appear that the Cal first fans want to answer those things.
Another question I have asked is how long since we had a senior day for a scholarship player that Cal recruited? They won’t answer that either .
These questions shut the Cal fans up almost as fast as when I asked Bass if he supported BCG and Tubby until the end. He replied to everything except those questions. He knew what was coming next.
