Russia - Ukraine WAR Warning: Political Discussions

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BigBlueFanGA

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It definitely provided the vacuum isis needed to thrive. Prove it wrong instead of your thoughtless one liners. We left all our equipment behind billions for isis to use just like taliban you loser
Yes, it did cause a vacuum. That was well before the idiot left all our equipment in Afghanistan but some has made it into the hands of whats left of ISIS. You cheer the desruction of Ukraine, hate the fact that Ukraine and Zelensky have the audacity to defend themselves and then call me a loser? Bwahaha

You and your twisted cohorts right here.

Black And White Vintage GIF by Okkult Motion Pictures
 

SDC888

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Blah blah blah, yeah, you think you're right. You aren't of course. You never explain why you're so right and we're so wrong either. As soon as you get challenged you say "I don't want to debate". You're the worst type of arrogant, you mix in an equal part of ignorance.

That never happened.

I'd be more than willing to "debate" you if I thought you were genuinely interested amd otherwise capable of substantive discourse.

You aren't. You invariably resort to hurling insults, making weak straw man arguments to avoid the issue, and other nonsense. You think I couldn't just sit here hurling insults at you? Sure I could. Mine would be much more poignant too, containing a degree of validity to them as yours (pl.) have zero. I wouldn't even need to were that my intent like it is with you all; the truth as I keep presenting it is in its own right insulting enough to you.

All that nonsense is just you doubling down on your ignorance. You really ahve no clue the magnitude of your error. You (pl.) didn't know anything about Ukraine before February; you know even less now.

And my reasoning /evidence for he pro-peace argument has been more than sufficiently presented in this thread. This war was as avoidable as it is needless. They are just as culpable as Putin. The war is not being fought for the reasons the media told you, what your google searches tell you, and it doesn't need to continue to be waged.
 
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BigBlueFanGA

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That never happened.

I'd be more than willing to "debate" you if I thought you were genuinely interested amd otherwise capable of substantive discourse.

You aren't. You invariably resort to hurling insults, making weak straw man arguments to avoid the issue, and other nonsense. You think I couldn't just sit here hurling insults at you? Sure I could. Mine would be much more poignant too, containing a degree of validity to them as yours (pl.) have zero. I wouldn't even need to were that my intent like it is with you all; the truth as I keep presenting it is in its own right insulting enough to you.

All that nonsense is just you doubling down on your ignorance. You really ahve no clue the magnitude of your error. You (pl.) didn't know anything about Ukraine before February; you know even less now.

And my reasoning /evidence for he pro-peace argument has been more than sufficiently presented in this thread. This war was as avoidable as it is needless. They are just as culpable as Putin. The war is not being fought for the reasons the media told you, what your google searches tell you, and it doesn't need to continue to be waged.
Do you really want me to quote you and prove you're a liar?
 

SDC888

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Do you really want me to quote you and prove you're a liar?

Go ahead.

I'm not lying. If I thought you people were genuinely interested in having a fruitful discussion, I would. I have no interest in persuading you, if that's what you mean.

I don't think you are amenable to that.
 
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BigBlueFanGA

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Go ahead.

I'm not lying. If I thought you people were genuinely interested in having a fruitful discussion, I would. I have no interest in persuading you, if that's what you mean.

I don't think you are amenable to that.
Actually, to the contrary, I am. However, I require proof, not opinion. I don't care what Bubba tweets or anyone else for the most part. Debate is healthy for the mind, for both people. I can understand not wanting to fund this war. I don't agree with it but it is a legitimate position. What I don't understand is the Ukraine hate and the fervent hate of Zelensky. You keep claiming to understand things we don't, well, please inform us, just don't use innuendo to do so. I've tried this before and you didn't want to participate. That was months ago, probably May or June.
 

SDC888

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Actually, to the contrary, I am. However, I require proof, not opinion. I don't care what Bubba tweets or anyone else for the most part. Debate is healthy for the mind, for both people. I can understand not wanting to fund this war. I don't agree with it but it is a legitimate position. What I don't understand is the Ukraine hate and the fervent hate of Zelensky. You keep claiming to understand things we don't, well, please inform us, just don't use innuendo to do so. I've tried this before and you didn't want to participate. That was months ago, probably May or June.

Everything you allsay about the Russians you hate so mcuh could be equally said about Ukrainians.

It's as simple as that. Can I find you a veritable media link to explain it to you? Just google articles written before 2019.
 

BigBlueFanGA

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Everything you allsay about the Russians you hate so mcuh could be equally said about Ukrainians.

It's as simple as that. Can I find you a veritable media link to explain it to you? Just google articles written before 2019.
I've read many. I still don't understand your position. As for hating Russians, I don't. I hate their government. They are bullies at best and murderers at worst and we all know they have a history of murdering opponents. Has Zelensky done this? Not that I can find.
 
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Wildcats1st

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Yes, it did cause a vacuum. That was well before the idiot left all our equipment in Afghanistan but some has made it into the hands of whats left of ISIS. You cheer the desruction of Ukraine, hate the fact that Ukraine and Zelensky have the audacity to defend themselves and then call me a loser? Bwahaha

You and your twisted cohorts right here.

Black And White Vintage GIF by Okkult Motion Pictures
You act as though we didnt run out of Iraq too leaving billions in equipment which was used by isis to expand its territory. I dont cheer the destruction of anything. I want Ukraine to go to the table before they end up truly destroyed bc of their arrogance. Kyiv isnt in the condition that meme indicated but it very easily could be with the idiot in charge who wants to fight for Crimea and Donbas. I mean hes sounding like Putin. Those Crimeans dont want liberating and they wont be welcoming a Ukrainian army. Its ego that drives zelensky at this point and all this pride over what they have so far accomplished will be his downfall. Like I said he and Putin are two peas in a pod except zelensky is a proxy for the west. Hes a puppet.
 
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Wildcats1st

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I've read many. I still don't understand your position. As for hating Russians, I don't. I hate their government. They are bullies at best and murderers at worst and we all know they have a history of murdering opponents. Has Zelensky done this? Not that I can find.
So does Ukraine ffs Ukraine out of the two is the only country to illegally oust a democratically elected sitting president. You and your esteemed colleagues there act like this all began last Feb. shit! Ukrainian is one of the original members of the Soviet Union. They have blood all over their hands and I’ll remind you that about 40% of the time the Soviet Union existed it was led by a Ukrainian!
 
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Wildcats1st

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Everything you allsay about the Russians you hate so mcuh could be equally said about Ukrainians.

It's as simple as that. Can I find you a veritable media link to explain it to you? Just google articles written before 2019.
These guys act like nothing was going on before last year. How about this blast from the past with the recent zelensky time man of the year BS.

 
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Wildcats1st

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“It is the largest country on earth; it shares a 2,600-mile (4,200 km) border with China; it has a significant and restive Islamic population; it has the world's largest stockpile of weapons of mass destruction and a lethal nuclear arsenal; it is the world's second largest oil producer after Saudi Arabia; and it is an indispensable player in whatever happens in the Middle East. For all these reasons, if Russia fails, all bets are off for the 21st century.”

 
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BigBlueFanGA

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You act as though we didnt run out of Iraq too leaving billions in equipment which was used by isis to expand its territory. I dont cheer the destruction of anything. I want Ukraine to go to the table before they end up truly destroyed bc of their arrogance. Kyiv isnt in the condition that meme indicated but it very easily could be with the idiot in charge who wants to fight for Crimea and Donbas. I mean hes sounding like Putin. Those Crimeans dont want liberating and they wont be welcoming a Ukrainian army. Its ego that drives zelensky at this point and all this pride over what they have so far accomplished will be his downfall. Like I said he and Putin are two peas in a pod except zelensky is a proxy for the west. Hes a puppet.
So defending their sovereign country is now arrogance. WOW
 

hmt5000

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So defending their sovereign country is now arrogance. WOW
They can and should. But when they are using our weapons, bullets, satellites, missiles, rockets, mortars and have our soldiers and cia helping them to plan and coordinate attacks.... it's kinda hard to say "its just Ukraine defending themselves". One thing you need to think about is all these trenches in Ukraine. Those weren't built while the fighting started. They have been building those defensive positions for the last several years in preparation for war. Nato was training Ukraine soldiers in preparation for war. Russia was aware of that. They chose to strike before Ukraine became a bigger threat to Russia territory.


Russia has TV too. They see this stuff.
 

BigBlueFanGA

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“It is the largest country on earth; it shares a 2,600-mile (4,200 km) border with China; it has a significant and restive Islamic population; it has the world's largest stockpile of weapons of mass destruction and a lethal nuclear arsenal; it is the world's second largest oil producer after Saudi Arabia; and it is an indispensable player in whatever happens in the Middle East. For all these reasons, if Russia fails, all bets are off for the 21st century.”

That is an opinion I don't agree with.
 

BigBlueFanGA

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They can and should. But when they are using our weapons, bullets, satellites, missiles, rockets, mortars and have our soldiers and cia helping them to plan and coordinate attacks.... it's kinda hard to say "its just Ukraine defending themselves". One thing you need to think about is all these trenches in Ukraine. Those weren't built while the fighting started. They have been building those defensive positions for the last several years in preparation for war. Nato was training Ukraine soldiers in preparation for war. Russia was aware of that. They chose to strike before Ukraine became a bigger threat to Russia territory.



Russia has TV too. They see this stuff.
I'm sure you felt the same way about what France did for us in the Revolutionary War.
 
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SDC888

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That is an opinion I don't agree with.

They are a world power, like it or not.

The primary purpose of this war, other than to enrich some corrupt Ukrainians like Zel, is to use Ukrainian lives and its territory as a pawn to make Russia not so.
 

entropy13

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The primary purpose of this war, which was started by the Russian government, is to subjugate a sovereign nation state based on neo-imperialistic mythological whimsy, no matter the human, economic, and social cost to both Ukraine and Russia.

FYP.
 

bcw1029

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They are a world power, like it or not.

The primary purpose of this war, other than to enrich some corrupt Ukrainians like Zel, is to use Ukrainian lives and its territory as a pawn to make Russia not so.
Not what? And I’ll take the bait just to go a little further…. do you have direct proof that Zelensky took aid and enriched himself? Let’s see it.

Nobody is denying Ukraine is corrupt.
 
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BigBlueFanGA

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They are a world power, like it or not.

The primary purpose of this war, other than to enrich some corrupt Ukrainians like Zel, is to use Ukrainian lives and its territory as a pawn to make Russia not so.
Oh, ok. Then it should be easy to show us how much Zelensky has profited from the war.
 

BigBlueFanGA

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Not what? And I’ll take the bait just to go a little further…. do you have direct proof that Zelensky took aid and enriched himself? Let’s see it.

Nobody is denying Ukraine is corrupt.
He doesn't realize it but that is an example of a straw man argument. He's hilarious in his ignorance.
 
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SDC888

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You apparently don't know what that means or you can explain to us how it's a straw man argument?
Ofcourse I do. Can you explain to me why your comments are characteristic of one?

He doesn't realize it but that is an example of a straw man argument. He's hilarious in his ignorance.
Again, there's nothing you post I don't "realize." This isn't rocket science. I know what you think and why you think it. I also know what you are trying to achieve there by "flipping" my accusations against you on me, here and elsewhere.

Tell me how you are NOT making a straw man argument there then maybe I'll engage you.

No, Zel's corruption is not the crux of my argument, but if he weren't, if he actually cared about his people, there would be no war, yes. He wouldn't have sold out his country. He woudln't have taken this risky strategy vis a vis NATO and the donbas for "sovereignty." That's a speculative counterfactual given the facts and known realities, not a strawman argument. Or, put another way, the point I am making there is he is no hero. He's not your hero to Putin the anti-hero. He is similarly in it for himself and a complete POS. There's a reason why he "enjoyed" below 20% approval rating before the war, why his constituents viewed him as totally corrupt then, why all of a sudden after Trump's "perfect call" where he tried to bribe him for dirt on effJB he was portrayed glowingly as a freedom fighter.
 

bcw1029

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Ofcourse I do. Can you explain to me why your comments are characteristic of one?


Again, there's nothing you post I don't "realize." This isn't rocket science. I know what you think and why you think it. I also know what you are trying to achieve there by "flipping" my accusations against you on me, here and elsewhere.

Tell me how you are NOT making a straw man argument there then maybe I'll engage you.

No, Zel's corruption is not the crux of my argument, but if he weren't, if he actually cared about his people, there would be no war, yes. He wouldn't have sold out his country. He woudln't have taken this risky strategy vis a vis NATO and the donbas for "sovereignty." That's a speculative counterfactual given the facts and known realities, not a strawman argument. Or, put another way, the point I am making there is he is no hero. He's not your hero to Putin the anti-hero. He is similarly in it for himself and a complete POS. There's a reason why he "enjoyed" below 20% approval rating before the war, why his constituents viewed him as totally corrupt then, why all of a sudden after Trump's "perfect call" where he tried to bribe him for dirt on effJB he was portrayed glowingly as a freedom fighter.
“The primary purpose of this war, other than to enrich some corrupt Ukrainians like Zel, is to use Ukrainian lives and its territory as a pawn to make Russia not so”.


So in the post above after this one, you now say Zel’s corruption is “not the crux of your argument” (?). Okay….

Still waiting for an answer on “not so”. Not what?
 

SDC888

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“The primary purpose of this war, other than to enrich some corrupt Ukrainians like Zel, is to use Ukrainian lives and its territory as a pawn to make Russia not so”.


So in the post above after this one, you now say Zel’s corruption is “not the crux of your argument” (?). Okay….

Still waiting for an answer on “not so”. Not what?

The primary purpose of this war is to make Russia the world power not so.

Zel/Ukrainian Oligarchs' profiteering and corruption is not part and parcel to that agenda.
 

BigBlueFanGA

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Ofcourse I do. Can you explain to me why your comments are characteristic of one?


Again, there's nothing you post I don't "realize." This isn't rocket science. I know what you think and why you think it. I also know what you are trying to achieve there by "flipping" my accusations against you on me, here and elsewhere.

Tell me how you are NOT making a straw man argument there then maybe I'll engage you.

No, Zel's corruption is not the crux of my argument, but if he weren't, if he actually cared about his people, there would be no war, yes. He wouldn't have sold out his country. He woudln't have taken this risky strategy vis a vis NATO and the donbas for "sovereignty." That's a speculative counterfactual given the facts and known realities, not a strawman argument. Or, put another way, the point I am making there is he is no hero. He's not your hero to Putin the anti-hero. He is similarly in it for himself and a complete POS. There's a reason why he "enjoyed" below 20% approval rating before the war, why his constituents viewed him as totally corrupt then, why all of a sudden after Trump's "perfect call" where he tried to bribe him for dirt on effJB he was portrayed glowingly as a freedom fighter.
In my France statement?
 

SDC888

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In my France statement?

That's a straw man argument, yes. Your other comment I quoted was a strawman argument too. You (pl.) are making them all the time because your "argument" requires them.

The hack literally can't post in this thread without making them.
 

BigBlueFanGA

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That's a straw man argument, yes. Your other comment I quoted was a strawman argument too. You (pl.) are making them all the time because your "argument" requires them.

The hack literally can't post in this thread without making them.
My France statement absolutely was not a straw man. For all intents and purposes we were a poor, sovereign nation fighting a giant bully to remain that way.

That giant bully had an enemy who happened to help us with training, weapons and money both to help us and to spit in the eye of their enemy. Hmm, sounds familiar. It's so similar its almost weird.

Now you can try to explain to the class why you think that is a straw man argument. I might agree, if so, I'll be happy to rephrase.
 

SDC888

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My France statement absolutely was not a straw man. For all intents and purposes we were a poor, sovereign nation fighting a giant bully to remain that way.

That giant bully had an enemy who happened to help us with training, weapons and money both to help us and to spit in the eye of their enemy. Hmm, sounds familiar. It's so similar its almost weird.

Now you can try to explain to the class why you think that is a straw man argument. I might agree, if so, I'll be happy to rephrase.

You are saying that since it was beneficial then, it should be now too. That ignores the MYRIAD of differences today, chief among them is the potential for global catastrophe and/or other suffering the wider world will experience which were not possible then due to the interdependence and connectivity of our modern global reality.

That's the straw man. In your analogy, you've substituted a known for an unknown, and think you've substantively aided your argument, that we should expect the same result as we did then while ignoring all the VERY SUBTANTIAL differences between then and now.

Put more succinctly, hopefully more clearly. He is saying we shouldn't fund the war because it's basically a war between us and Russia, i.e. two world powers. You are saying, "well, since it happened before and we agree it worked out well, we should."

Since it was good then, it's good now. That's a strawm an argument. You've "shown" that it was good then/there, not that it's good here/now.
 
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SDC888

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Having read that, can you explain how your other comment directed towards wildcat1st was a strawman?
 

SDC888

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As if on cue, this is excellent. You can't defend liberalism (freedom and democracy) through illiberalism.

 

hmt5000

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Oh, ok. Then it should be easy to show us how much Zelensky has profited from the war.
Have you heard of the Panama papers and are you aware that he owns several mansions around the world and is worth millions of dollars?
 
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hmt5000

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Fwiw Russia is reporting they have released 150,000 of the 300,000 reservist to Ukraine. They are saying that 71000 of these will immediately go to the front line with 300 new t90- tanks. The rest will be 2nd line and 3rd line troops in support roles.

Nato "expert" has suggested the other 150,000 will enter as relief troops after the upcoming offensive is well underway. Most still think a big offensive comes after the ground freezes solid.
 
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BigBlueFanGA

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You are saying that since it was beneficial then, it should be now too. That ignores the MYRIAD of differences today, chief among them is the potential for global catastrophe and/or other suffering the wider world will experience which were not possible then due to the interdependence and connectivity of our modern global reality.

That's the straw man. In your analogy, you've substituted a known for an unknown, and think you've substantively aided your argument, that we should expect the same result as we did then while ignoring all the VERY SUBTANTIAL differences between then and now.

Put more succinctly, hopefully more clearly. He is saying we shouldn't fund the war because it's basically a war between us and Russia, i.e. two world powers. You are saying, "well, since it happened before and we agree it worked out well, we should."

Since it was good then, it's good now. That's a strawm an argument. You've "shown" that it was good then/there, not that it's good here/now.
That isn't the definition of a straw man. I never claimed good or bad. You just made another straw man. I simply equated the 2 and I'm correct.
 

bcw1029

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The primary purpose of this war is to make Russia
the world power not so.

Zel/Ukrainian Oligarchs' profiteering and corruption is not part and parcel to that agenda.

Wholeheartedly disagree. Unfortunately for Russia, they will no longer be a world power after this war and they could have avoided this.

Still waiting for that profiteering off of our money evidence. I don’t care how many mansions Zel has, looking for evidence.
 
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