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POLITICAL THREAD

How will they rule ??!

  • YES - Qualified

    Votes: 41 82.0%
  • NO - Disqualified

    Votes: 9 18.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
Sheriff David Clarke is outstanding on this subject.

If someone killed 5 people at a Tea Party Rally, would CNN distance the killer from the Tea Party movement? CNN this morning biggest concern was Rush saying "BLM is a terrorist organization".
 
You guys wanting to reform the police:

If the guy in Minnesota had a pistol on his lap that he went for when the cop asked for his ID, how would your reforms prevent what the cop did? Would the cop just have to get shot?

David Clarke on Obama.....Clarke must be a racist.
 
You guys wanting to reform the police:

If the guy in Minnesota had a pistol on his lap that he went for when the cop asked for his ID, how would your reforms prevent what the cop did? Would the cop just have to get shot?

David Clarke on Obama.....Clarke must be a racist.

Well for starters logic should kick in once the person/suspect admits to having a gun which he also had a conceal carry license. My focus would be to disarm him before giving any concern about his license.

Hands up, get weapon, proceed with normal traffic stop.
 
Well for starters logic should kick in once the person/suspect admits to having a gun which he also had a conceal carry license. My focus would be to disarm him before giving any concern about his license.

Hands up, get weapon, proceed with normal traffic stop.

How would you disarm him when the gun is on his lap and his hand is on the gun? Logic?

How do you know he had a Cc? What does that have to do with a loaded pistol on his lap?

He was pulled over for being an Armed Robbery suspect, not a normal traffic stop.
 
What facts, statistical data or whatever else do you have that says more blacks aren't shot by cops than whites? Then what facts do you have that say there are more blacks in America than whites?

My point, again, is for years this stuff wasn't making the news and cops were abusing their powers which we aren't seeing. And then the black community took a stand because of a bad case. Eventually they get sick of it too.

Just like you are sick of the media portraying something worse than it is.

In both cases people scream racism, but cops aren't a race they are a career.

Personally I don't see why the one dude was tackled in LA to begin with. Bring up his history all you want but that doesn't justify being shot. Even if I feel better he is gone because he was a POS.

The other by all measures didn't have a background and "may have been a suspect" in a robbery. Sure there is an after the fact video that doesn't convict a cop but come on how can you justify that?

Now if your tired of blacks protesting because every week there seems to be a new video on the news of a black person shot then that sucks. But let's see here........blacks don't like a segment of govt and protest/March for their cause is reverse racism. A segment of Whites honestly can't stand this administration and loath everything about it claiming they are to blame for this race BS.

Yet and still disagreeing with me that they are what they hate but just on an extreme opposite position.

Exaggerate much? Every week? I must miss them most weeks on my daily news coverage( we k own that's a lie, cuz the media sensationalizes everything they can)
 
Exaggerate much? Every week? I must miss them most weeks on my daily news coverage( we k own that's a lie, cuz the media sensationalizes everything they can)

On avg look it up. 6 months into the year so, 4 weeks a month plus 1 for the month we had 5 weeks and that's 25 black police murders or violent arrest. I'd be willing to bet it is damn close to the amount that have been on my tv this year so far.

Could be wrong I guess but it's close.
 
How would you disarm him when the gun is on his lap and his hand is on the gun? Logic?

How do you know he had a Cc? What does that have to do with a loaded pistol on his lap?

He was pulled over for being an Armed Robbery suspect, not a normal traffic stop.


I don't mind the gun drawn by the cop, but at that point his focus should have been to disarm the suspect. Did this cop not have body cam? Seems weird.

I don't buy the video his girl streamed but I also don't buy the robbery suspect either. I do believe it was reported he had a CC license and it's relevant because to get one you have to be a decent citizen which on paper he seemed to be.
 
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Well for starters logic should kick in once the person/suspect admits to having a gun which he also had a conceal carry license. My focus would be to disarm him before giving any concern about his license.

Hands up, get weapon, proceed with normal traffic stop.

Krazy, The man in Louisiana didn't get shot because of his past arrests. He got shot because he resisted arrest, scuffled with police and he either went for his gun or the cop thought he was. If Cop feels his life is in imminent danger they CAN shoot you.

In Minnesota we don't know that he told the cops he had a gun or if he even had a CCW. All we know is what happened AFTER the shooting for certain.

You and I had this conversation previously in the Steven Avery thread. You don't trust the Cops, you jump to conclusions based on what you see on TV.
Now like them maybe all you've seen is what the producer of the video wanted you to see?
 
I don't trust cops because they are in a lot of cases scared and fearful before they arrive. That puts them in a position to be awful froggy.

I'm not sold that in LA those officers should not have or could not have waited for more backup which was coming. I know that. I know I saw a cop get short man syndrome because his authority or badge wasn't just bowed down to.

In Minnesota I'm not sure what happened your right. But I'm sure no matter what it wasn't handled correctly at all.

1- armed robbery suspect means as the cop walks up his gun should be drawn and he should not pass the rear driver side window and the suspect should be requested to get out of the vehicle.

2- if he doesn't do that then stay there until backup comes. That position keeps you safe as possible and in position to defend yourself if something stupid is tried.

3- there is no reason to play hero instead of keeping safety as the main source of the police officer's job.
 
So now you're an expert on cop tactics?

There was 2 Cops in Baton Rouge on scene, at that point it wasn't a violent scene. So why would they need back up? They had no idea the guy wasn't going to follow direction.

How can you be sure Minnesota wasn't handled properly? You're assuming everything played out as the woman stated, and it very well may have, but as you wrote we don't know that at this point.

All I'm saying is that within 24 hours a number of us had jumped to conclusions one way or the other. That resulted in at least 5 more people being killed. You would think that after Ferguson and what is looking like Baltimore as well, a little patience would be in order.

It's gone from unarmed black men being killed with their hands up, to armed black men resisting arrest. We keep getting told its peaceful protests, but then get info pointing many NOT being peaceful. If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck.
 
Media Criticism--
How many times in the last three years has the national media reported on stories of a white man shot by police...justly or unjustly? There are plenty of cases nationwide. How many times in the last 3-5 years has the national media reported on stories of Hispanics being shot by police...justly or unjustly? And by reporting I mean make them the story of the day nationally... Are African Americans getting shot by cops in some huge numbers or does it seem that way cause the media(knowing racial animosities, our history of black vs white, and the emotions that go with all that are great for ratings) is highlighting every possible case it can. If Rhode Island state troopers shoot a white man tomorrow, zero chance you hear about it, but if a black man gets shot in Kansas regardless of the facts...it will be on your 24 hour news. Now why is that? I don't know if it is liberalism or if news people (can't call them journalist anymore) have some sort of 'generational envy' of those heroic voices who spoke out during the civil rights era...whatever the reason, many media outlets seem hell bent on trying to create racial discord. Hell, I got on CNN's website one day weeks ago and the top story! nationally for them was a Muslim flight attendant may have been let go cause she refused to serve alcohol and CNN was treating it like a civil rights issue and evidence of America's inherent racism. Think they would have ran the story if the flight attendant refused to serve alcohol cause they were Christian...or white...and regardless of any facts about that issue, why is that the top story for a second on a national news site?

With Regards the Police vs Black Community--
Young African American males per every reliable stats you look at are the most violent group in the nation. It is human nature that police are more suspicious of them, more aggressive towards them. I don't know the answer, things like stop and frisk in New York clearly helped bring down crime but you could certainly see the argument it is unconstitutional. Who among us if we were black and a law abiding citizen wouldn't feel anger to be stopped and frisked while doing nothing wrong? And yet the reason they are stopped is violence is more prevalent in that group. It is a vicious cycle, the cops see them as the most dangerous people and the black population, both criminal and innocent, feel anger over being targeted.

I can't imagine someone arguing the press and the President haven't made this situation worse by their actions and rhetoric. The Michael Brown case is the best example. We as a nation had to hear that story for months and all the commentary of white privilege and all the commentary of police brutality and come to find out all the physical evidence pointed to an assault upon the officer. The media includes in their list of black people shot by police...people who deserved to be shot and people who didn't...their job is suppose to be to report the difference and they don't. Their job also is to know the difference between what is truly national news and what is a local issue...but they are looking for the next OJ case, the next Martin and Zimmerman, the next story that draws the national attention. And they just throw shit on a wall hoping we will watch. I swear I think people were better off with their morning newspaper and the nightly news...24 news is a disaster, doesn't matter whether it leans left or right.

But whatever your beliefs prepare yourself for a long summer. There is going to be plenty of riots (some MSNBC will call peaceful protests) and plenty of injuries of cops.
 
So now you're an expert on cop tactics?

There was 2 Cops in Baton Rouge on scene, at that point it wasn't a violent scene. So why would they need back up? They had no idea the guy wasn't going to follow direction.

How can you be sure Minnesota wasn't handled properly? You're assuming everything played out as the woman stated, and it very well may have, but as you wrote we don't know that at this point.

All I'm saying is that within 24 hours a number of us had jumped to conclusions one way or the other. That resulted in at least 5 more people being killed. You would think that after Ferguson and what is looking like Baltimore as well, a little patience would be in order.

It's gone from unarmed black men being killed with their hands up, to armed black men resisting arrest. We keep getting told its peaceful protests, but then get info pointing many NOT being peaceful. If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck.

Dude did you watch the video in LA? It wasn't violent until the cop tackled the guy and slammed him twice.

How can I be sure in Minnesota? Seriously? Because of where we are now that's how I know.

You ever think matching stubbornness with more stubbornness just might be wrong?
 
You guys wanting to reform the police:

If the guy in Minnesota had a pistol on his lap that he went for when the cop asked for his ID, how would your reforms prevent what the cop did? Would the cop just have to get shot?

David Clarke on Obama.....Clarke must be a racist.
David Clarke is awesome. We need more people like him in this world.
 
Yea it seems the store owner in the AltonSterling case sure seems to think Alton asking what he did wrong wasn't worthy of being slammed and later shot.

 
Dude did you watch the video in LA? It wasn't violent until the cop tackled the guy and slammed him twice.

How can I be sure in Minnesota? Seriously? Because of where we are now that's how I know.

You ever think matching stubbornness with more stubbornness just might be wrong?

It's not stubbornness Krazy, it's looking at what happened. It's called thinking rationally. Why did the cop tackle him? He didn't follow what the cop told him by getting down, then the cop tried no lethal, then the cop took him down and he still fought.

So because people are acting like idiots it put the cops in Minnesota in the wrong? Are you unable to look at things logically? None of us know if the cop in Minnesota was right or wrong because we DONT what happened before the video started.
We have politicians acting utterly unresponsible by going on the news saying it was clearly racism and a white guy wouldn't have been shot, that is inciting a riot. We got told he was stopped for a broken tail light, which also wasn't true.
So with all the things we have found out to be inaccurate you think maybe patience would be prudent.
I'm not saying the cops are right, but I understand law and order are necessary to maintain a society. Protesting is a right, but protesting over something that may have been justified isn't.
 
I don't trust cops because they are in a lot of cases scared and fearful before they arrive. That puts them in a position to be awful froggy.

I'm not sold that in LA those officers should not have or could not have waited for more backup which was coming. I know that. I know I saw a cop get short man syndrome because his authority or badge wasn't just bowed down to.

In Minnesota I'm not sure what happened your right. But I'm sure no matter what it wasn't handled correctly at all.

1- armed robbery suspect means as the cop walks up his gun should be drawn and he should not pass the rear driver side window and the suspect should be requested to get out of the vehicle.

2- if he doesn't do that then stay there until backup comes. That position keeps you safe as possible and in position to defend yourself if something stupid is tried.

3- there is no reason to play hero instead of keeping safety as the main source of the police officer's job.
Good post. I never understand why a cop would walk up past the rear driver corner of a car if he suspects trouble until the occupants follow orders to get out with hands exposed.
 
If a cop can't explain what they are doing and calmly deal with people then the fault goes to the cop. Watch the video. The store owner said he came out once cops were yelling at a man allowed to sell CDs in front of his store.

Said he was out there and did not start recording until they tackled Alton but felt they were too aggressive.

Your logic seems flawed AF when witnesses are describing a scenario that isn't pro cop which you seem to be no matter what.

I can tell you if I'm being questioned or accused wrongly I may not be so willing to a comrade the police either. And if they can't explain themselves I gurantee my attorney will be all over their ass.

I've been arrested falsely before, and I've been arrested in an illegal search and seizure where I was guilty but police were to aggressive in their stupidity of the damn law and I got off because of it.

So yea my logic is knowing the damn laws and my freedoms and what the cops are required to do.

You are an idiot clearly when it comes to blindly defending cops that just maybe shouldn't be on the force.
 
There was 2 Cops in Baton Rouge on scene, at that point it wasn't a violent scene. So why would they need back up? They had no idea the guy wasn't going to follow direction.
AA's say the police don't respect them. So these cops respond toa call & tell the guy what to do & he resists. WTF? Can't have it both ways.
 
Yes but Bill doesn't see its him wanting it both ways.

But but but he wasn't pulled over for a broken tail light it was because he was an armed robbery suspect.....no shit, well hell their is no reason to be precautions and safe and maybe stall out until other officers arrive then is there. Just go ahead mr hero almighty!

Jesus another example of people being too far one way or the other to have any ability to be fair and just.
 
Anyone ever notice it's always criminals having problems with police.

"I was breaking the law but they were too aggressive"

How about don't break the law and you have nothing to bitch about. How about we start where the problem starts? Follow the GD law.

Someone wake me up when a non criminal bites the dust at the hands of police. don't give a shit of a criminal acts out of his ass and gets his ass shot. One less piece of trash to deal with.
 
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Media Criticism--
How many times in the last three years has the national media reported on stories of a white man shot by police...justly or unjustly? There are plenty of cases nationwide. How many times in the last 3-5 years has the national media reported on stories of Hispanics being shot by police...justly or unjustly? And by reporting I mean make them the story of the day nationally... Are African Americans getting shot by cops in some huge numbers or does it seem that way cause the media(knowing racial animosities, our history of black vs white, and the emotions that go with all that are great for ratings) is highlighting every possible case it can. If Rhode Island state troopers shoot a white man tomorrow, zero chance you hear about it, but if a black man gets shot in Kansas regardless of the facts...it will be on your 24 hour news. Now why is that? I don't know if it is liberalism or if news people (can't call them journalist anymore) have some sort of 'generational envy' of those heroic voices who spoke out during the civil rights era...whatever the reason, many media outlets seem hell bent on trying to create racial discord. Hell, I got on CNN's website one day weeks ago and the top story! nationally for them was a Muslim flight attendant may have been let go cause she refused to serve alcohol and CNN was treating it like a civil rights issue and evidence of America's inherent racism. Think they would have ran the story if the flight attendant refused to serve alcohol cause they were Christian...or white...and regardless of any facts about that issue, why is that the top story for a second on a national news site?

With Regards the Police vs Black Community--
Young African American males per every reliable stats you look at are the most violent group in the nation. It is human nature that police are more suspicious of them, more aggressive towards them. I don't know the answer, things like stop and frisk in New York clearly helped bring down crime but you could certainly see the argument it is unconstitutional. Who among us if we were black and a law abiding citizen wouldn't feel anger to be stopped and frisked while doing nothing wrong? And yet the reason they are stopped is violence is more prevalent in that group. It is a vicious cycle, the cops see them as the most dangerous people and the black population, both criminal and innocent, feel anger over being targeted.

I can't imagine someone arguing the press and the President haven't made this situation worse by their actions and rhetoric. The Michael Brown case is the best example. We as a nation had to hear that story for months and all the commentary of white privilege and all the commentary of police brutality and come to find out all the physical evidence pointed to an assault upon the officer. The media includes in their list of black people shot by police...people who deserved to be shot and people who didn't...their job is suppose to be to report the difference and they don't. Their job also is to know the difference between what is truly national news and what is a local issue...but they are looking for the next OJ case, the next Martin and Zimmerman, the next story that draws the national attention. And they just throw shit on a wall hoping we will watch. I swear I think people were better off with their morning newspaper and the nightly news...24 news is a disaster, doesn't matter whether it leans left or right.

But whatever your beliefs prepare yourself for a long summer. There is going to be plenty of riots (some MSNBC will call peaceful protests) and plenty of injuries of cops.

Great post.
 
Anyone ever notice it's always criminals having problems with police.

"I was breaking the law but they were too aggressive"

How about don't break the law and you have nothing to bitch about. How about we start where the problem starts? Follow the GD law.

Someone wake me up when a non criminal bites the dust at the hands of police. don't give a shit of a criminal acts out of his ass and gets his ass shot. One less piece of trash to deal with.

I understand this a lot more than "we just don't know if the cop was right or wrong" or any other technicality arguments brought up at times like this.
 
If a cop can't explain what they are doing and calmly deal with people then the fault goes to the cop. Watch the video. The store owner said he came out once cops were yelling at a man allowed to sell CDs in front of his store.

Said he was out there and did not start recording until they tackled Alton but felt they were too aggressive.

Your logic seems flawed AF when witnesses are describing a scenario that isn't pro cop which you seem to be no matter what.

I can tell you if I'm being questioned or accused wrongly I may not be so willing to a comrade the police either. And if they can't explain themselves I gurantee my attorney will be all over their ass.

I've been arrested falsely before, and I've been arrested in an illegal search and seizure where I was guilty but police were to aggressive in their stupidity of the damn law and I got off because of it.

So yea my logic is knowing the damn laws and my freedoms and what the cops are required to do.

You are an idiot clearly when it comes to blindly defending cops that just maybe shouldn't be on the force.

I'm not pro cop all the time, I'm pro let's not overreact to something when we don't have all the facts.
In the video the cop clearly states get on the ground, he doesn't , they then use non lethal force that doesn't work, they then tackle a guy, he fights back the cop says in the s uncle he has a gun!

I'm not an idiot, if you have a weapon, resist arrest, fight with the cop then your odds increase exponentially of getting shot, that's just common sense.

Just because you know the laws and your freedom doesn't mean you can act a fool when approached by police. That means you sort it out afterwards when the situation is diffused, not at the point of conflict.
 
I understand this a lot more than "we just don't know if the cop was right or wrong" or any other technicality arguments brought up at times like this.

Obviously you don't, you don't even know what the hell happened completely. You know 2 guys were shot and you put emotional blinders on.
It is impossible to know all the facts of the stories.
You did the same damn thing with Steven Avery. You watched a documentary and made an emotionally driven decision excluding fact and reason.
 
Yes but Bill doesn't see its him wanting it both ways.

But but but he wasn't pulled over for a broken tail light it was because he was an armed robbery suspect.....no shit, well hell their is no reason to be precautions and safe and maybe stall out until other officers arrive then is there. Just go ahead mr hero almighty!

Jesus another example of people being too far one way or the other to have any ability to be fair and just.

What did he do that was heroic? He had other cops there, again you're basing your decision on emotion.
You have no idea what happened leading up to the shooting, and neither do I, or anyone not affiliated with the investigation.
 
So now the facts, statistical data, and reality is "taking an extreme position".

Find ONE statistic IN CONTEXT that shows institutional oppression of police and I'll listen. The problem is you can't.

The reality is large portions of the black community do not like authority, do not like to be policed, and sure as hell don't want a white cop giving intruction. These areas are heavily racist and refuse to accept the rule of law.

If there are individual injustices, handle it, like they already are. But society is not going to allow these types of people to trash our judicial system convict police when evidence is present that there was a threat. We also aren't going to pretend there is an insitutional problem when less than 1,000 people are killed in a country of 320 MILLION by police, and 90% of those are 100% justified by almost everyone in America.

Wow I am late to the party, but this x 10000000.
 
What emotion is it I'm feeling when I see two cops yelling at a man to get on the ground as he asks what for? He has the right to know that dumbass.

Have you ever been pulled over? Have you noticed that after and even sometimes before a cop ask for your license and registration they ask if you know why you were pulled over? If not they do that because it's the law!

If your not in an understanding of why your being asked to get on the ground and you then ask and some dipshit cop slams your ass instead of telling you why the cop is in the wrong 100% of the time.

The rest is definitely up to interpretation which my above description as to why it should not have got to that point just allows me to justify siding with the killed.

Yes, as I said before you failed to understand what laws were broken and by whom is that the person record allows me to think "well we are better off without that POS" but I'm not the cop and that doesn't make the cop right for his actions.

I can also understand a bank teller making $12 an hour stealing money from said bank since they see thousands daily, but understanding it and saying it's ok are different.
 
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What emotion is it I'm feeling when I see two cops yelling at a man to get on the ground as he asks what for? He has the right to know that dumbass.


I'm going to stop reading you here, as it's obvious you have no clue about protocol and the law.

You do NOT have the right to NOT comply with an officers orders. PERIOD. The officers are not the judge. They tell you to get down, you get down, then you file a grievance or ask why once they've got the scene under control and understand what's going on.
The police are doing this because of safety. For the suspect, themselves, and people around them.

Do us a favor. Don't call the police if you're attacked. It might be one less anarchist.
 
First of all I never justified the killings, that's what you're failing to understand. I stated over and over and over we DONT know what happened yet!!
You don't know if they told the guy what they were there for or not, you just assumed they didn't, because all you have seen is the video. They didn't just slam him on the ground, they told him too, and then when he refused they tazed him, when that didn't work they took him down.

I've been arrested more times than I care to admit. You know what I did? I complied every time, you know what didn't happen? I wasn't roughed up, I wasn't tazed, I wasn't shot. After the initial encounter all the cops but 2 were actually pretty cool to me. If I hadn't broken the law the 2 that weren't cool wouldn't have ever had the opportunity.

All I'm saying is before we lose our shit and act like idiots let's find out what occurred completely. Acting on emotion immediately afterwards rarely is the right choice.

Lastly, I believe the cops have to tell you why you're being ARRESTED, not why they are telling you to get down.
 
So that actually is not federal law but instead varies state to state.

That sucks then and does fall into a resisting arrest category.

Well those two, or at least Sterling and family are up shit creek.
 
Bill you are not going to get a true story. Cops will make themselves seem in the right and the victims families will make it seem worse.

That's how it works. So we are waiting to see who's story gets pushed.

I should not have called you a dumbass, although I guess per you maybe I should wait see how that plays itself out[winking]
 
Bill you are not going to get a true story. Cops will make themselves seem in the right and the victims families will make it seem worse.

That's how it works. So we are waiting to see who's story gets pushed.

I should not have called you a dumbass, although I guess per you maybe I should wait see how that plays itself out[winking]

It's all good Krazy,
 
Well for starters logic should kick in once the person/suspect admits to having a gun which he also had a conceal carry license. My focus would be to disarm him before giving any concern about his license.

Hands up, get weapon, proceed with normal traffic stop.

Look man.

As a person that has family in law enforcement and has been a CC holder since I was legal. I'm saying this nicely. You have no f'in clue what you are talking about. And I'm serious, you really don't know.

There are rules in place for permit holders if they have a run in with the law. You MUST follow these rules or you could easily end up hurt.

1. Roll your windows down
2. Put your hands where the cop can see them.
3. Tell the cop you're armed legally
4. Let him tell you what to do next.

If you do not follow these rules, you are asking for trouble. And if you're a criminal that just robbed a GD store, well then, you better follow these by the book or it's going to end bad.

personally the only people I run into that have issues with police handling themselves by the law are:

1. Criminals themselves

2. Politically motivated individuals.

If you believe In this nonsense and don't fall into these categories, then the person just isn't very bright.
 
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Not sure how that makes me have no clue? All four of those things seem to have happened at this point.

My point is we were told wrong originally about why the stop was in place. My point is if he was pulled over because he was an armed robbery suspect then the cop should have been smarter and safer.
 
And another thing: Blacks make a big deal of having to have THE TALK with their sons to obey police orders. I'm curious: Whose parents didn't teach them to obey police orders? I still put my hands on the wheel when cops stop me till they arrive at the window & direct me otherwise.
 
Not sure how that makes me have no clue? All four of those things seem to have happened at this point.

My point is we were told wrong originally about why the stop was in place. My point is if he was pulled over because he was an armed robbery suspect then the cop should have been smarter and safer.

Could be. The cop seemed pretty tight too.

But you're way off on some of your comments.
 
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