Regardless of how people feel about rq on this board, his points regarding healthcare are reasonable. I'm not surprised that nobody will engage him in an actual intelligent discussion - par for the course on this board.
News flash - it's possible for someone who doesn't agree with everything you do to have good ideas, too. Sadly, this board is a microcosm of Washington.
For me it has nothing to do with how others feel about him or others personally, it's never personal for me but about the quality of the idea and the logic/rational behind solutions.
Socialism is unAmerican, clearly and by definition. What we know now is that our system is imperfect, there are things we need to do better, but it is clearly and indisputably on balance the best thing the world has ever seen. The luxuries we enjoy as a
nation species can be pinned down to American hegemony post WW2 and really the greatness of the ideas beforehand.
That some form of welfare state exists to some sort of degree within a free market capitalist economy in some small nations with some success is not a good enough argument. The self righteous moral superiority angle is also not a good enough argument since socialized American medicine could have disastrous consequences for innovation. Liberal ideas are not inherently more humane or sympathetic or altruistic than conservative ones, or vice versa. Liberals, particularly leftists, love the unearned moral superiority their ideas give them, but that doesn't necessarily make them better or more moral (the ideas nor the proponents).
What I wanted from him or anyone else is to show how socialized medicine addresses the problems and improves upon what we have now without straying into the grave errors the communists always make; fallacious notions like things are good enough now and the only reason they aren't good enough for some is because the greed of others. That's what the ideology says so it necessitates ipso facto that all you have to do is fix that and everything well be just like blissful Denmark. That's a fantasy which doesn't stand up to scrutiny like their other fallacious arguments.
The conservative point is basically that government won't fix the problems because government rarely makes things better, my point is basically not only that but it will make things much worse for everyone but the destitute and bankrupt which we can fix by other means, or even just extend Medicaid to them alone, not Medicare for all. Or any conglomerate of other ideas discussed.
I also simply won't believe unAmerican ideas are going to actually work in America until you prove to me that they would. The Warrens and Bernie Sanders, if really pressed on details, have to just hand wave
oh it will work or
everyone deserves it! That's simply not good enough of an argument, and I voted for Obamacare
.
