POLITICAL THREAD

[HymanKaplan]

In other words, it is statistically impossible for God not to have done this. It is 1 trillion times more likely that God created the universe than that it happened by chance.

It's exponentially more than 1 trillion times. In fact, it's functionally impossible (within the timeframe of earth) that it arose without a source of intelligence behind it. But yes, you're essentially correct.

The fact that life exists at all, IS, mathematically speaking, the much requested proof of a creator, that atheists are always clamoring for.

Also, bear in mind that it isn't life forms that this guy was talking about, with respect to the probabilities, he's just describing the chances of a single usable (with respect to DNA) protein chain forming by chance, and it's a ridiculous leap from that, to even the simplest single cell organism. Picture what he's talking about as a single bolt (the protein chain) that is installed on a Saturn V rocket (a simple, single cell organism) and you get a clearer idea of the big picture. LOL

 

[AshWilliams]

No words for the pitiful state of this Republic. All because democrats can only gain power through lies.

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Remember the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth? About 4-6 weeks.

 

[AshWilliams]

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That’s a really good point. It’s well known that the presidents signature is automated. How do we know someone didn’t sign this for him? Who knows whether or not Jill is being paid or threatened.

 

[HymanKaplan]

I'm going to go ahead and apologize, in advance, for the endless parade of posts, that my "creator" post will probably lead to.

 

[HymanKaplan]

That’s a really good point. It’s well known that the presidents signature is automated. How do we know someone didn’t sign this for him? Who knows whether or not Jill is being paid or threatened.

Has anyone even SEEN Joe since this story broke?

 

[AshWilliams]

Has anyone even SEEN Joe since this story broke?

Nope. If I’m Trump, I would put out a public statement stating that I don’t believe Joe has dropped out unless I hear it from him personally. This is a straight up coup, and it needs to be investigated.

 

[Dionysus444]

Interesting discussion, given the origin of life free for all from a few days back. It conveys, much more eloquently than I can, what I have been trying to say for years; which is that it is essentially a fairy tale that life arose and evolved through mere serendipity. IOW - If you hold to that, you are expressing far more faith than those that believe in a creator (and I'm not talking about religion here)

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So there are obviously tons of critiques here. I'm going to start with the biggest one, that most of his assumptions about how DNA 'coding' functions is wrong. DNA does not work like computer code, where if you put one random capital F or the word Fail in the middle of a big block of code it stops functioning. It's a complex system with multiple layers of complexity and redundancy, itself built on multiple layers of older systems, that we're learning more about every day. That system uses the fuel of adaptation and mutation just like it does adenine, cytosine, thymine, and guanine. So obviously it has mechanisms to manage them. A mutation is not changing a random letter of a computer code and hoping it works. A more apt analogy would be testing several different coding solutions to a particular problem and comparing the data as to how efficiently each functioned and preferring those. He's answering the wrong questions that he made up for himself in his 'research'.

 

[Dionysus444]

It's exponentially more than 1 trillion times. In fact, it's functionally impossible (within the timeframe of earth) that it arose without a source of intelligence behind it. But yes, you're essentially correct.

The fact that life exists at all, IS, mathematically speaking, the much requested proof of a creator, that atheists are always clamoring for.

Also, bear in mind that it isn't life forms that this guy was talking about, with respect to the probabilities, he's just describing the chances of a single protein chain forming by chance, and it's a ridiculous leap from that, to even the simplest single cell organism. Picture what he's talking about as a single bolt (the protein chain) that is installed on a Saturn V rocket (a simple, single cell organism) and you get a clearer idea of the big picture. LOL

That chemistry had been happening for billions of years before Earth even coalesced. It did not all happen on our planet. Titan has lakes of methane, nothing to do with Earth.

 

[HymanKaplan]

DNA encoding is EXACTLY like computer code. A computer OS is actually the perfect analogy for DNA.

This wasn't HIS research

Your quote, "A more apt analogy would be testing several different coding solutions to a particular problem and comparing the data as to how efficiently each functioned and preferring those." intrinsically implies a "mind" behind all of it.

 

[HymanKaplan]

That chemistry had been happening for billions of years before Earth even coalesced. It did not all happen on our planet. Titan has lakes of methane, nothing to do with Earth.

The universe, so they tell us, is around 13.7 billion years old, which is the blink of an eye, with respect to the number of calculations necessary to, as I said, for a simple protein chain to be coded properly, as described in his illustration. IOW, the entire universe hasn't been around long enough for even the basic building blocks (we're not even up to actual life forms yet) to have been formed by chance. It's math, my man.

Look, you are you, and I'd expect nothing else than for you to argue over this, but you're way out of your depth here.

 

[Dionysus444]

DNA encoding is EXACTLY like computer code. A computer OS is actually the perfect analogy for DNA.

This wasn't HIS research

Your quote, "A more apt analogy would be testing several different coding solutions to a particular problem and comparing the data as to how efficiently each functioned and preferring those." intrinsically implies a "mind" behind all of it.

No it doesn't. The system reacts to environmental pressures itself. That's natural selection.

 

[HymanKaplan]

Natural selection applies to life forms, and we haven't even gotten that far. We're still talking about the "machines" that make a functioning cell possible. So there is no "selection", since those "machines" would need to develop independently (through random chance), and, as I said, the universe hasn't been around long enough to run that many trials.

It's mathematically impossible (within the time frame we're dealing with) for this to have happened w/o an intelligence behind it.

If we're going down this road, I implore both sides to leave religion out of it. For purposes of this discussion, I'm only talking about intelligent design/a creator. What exactly that creator is is a different discussion. I am only saying THIS, so far: It is ludicrous to believe that life spawned from nothing. It might have seemed like a possibility at one time (just like Darwin's theory, before they were debunked) until we started to realize just how complex even just PARTS of a cell are. And the more we discover, the more ludicrous it looks.

 

[Dionysus444]

Natural selection applies to life forms, and we haven't even gotten that far. We're still talking about the "machines" that make a functioning cell possible. So there is no "selection", since those "machines" would need to develop independently (through random chance), and, as I said, the universe hasn't been around long enough to run that many trials.

It's mathematically impossible (within the time frame we're dealing with) for this to have happened w/o an intelligence behind it.

If you're going to try and debate this, you need to do some more research.

No, we're talking about interactions. In this case of molecules. Chemistry. Specifically with carbon, organic chemistry. Why is that called organic chemistry? Is it magical? No, it's just what we happen to call what 'life' is made out of. Complex chemical interactions with "machines" definitely undergo "selection", through extremely complex processes involving environmental circumstances, not "random chance". Is it "random chance" that causes bubbles when you pour vinegar into baking soda like a grade schooler? He is creating a ridiculous strawman and saying it's proof. He even acknowledges the false premise of his own argument with the whole 'it's not a God of the Gaps argument because...X, Y, Z.' Yes, it is.

 

[HymanKaplan]

Is it "random chance" that causes bubbles when you pour vinegar into baking soda like a grade schooler?


No, but it requires an outside force to do that, in this case, "you" (getting the baking soda and vinegar, and then doing the pouring) which is the entire point chief... LOL


But, let's table this until others get up and get a chance to weigh in.

On another subject; it's starting to look like Kamala is NOT actually entitled to the campaign war chest. According the FEC, that money has to be returned, OR it can be given to a Super PAC (which has it's own issues, because they are charged a lot more for advertisements than candidates are, so it greatly deflates the "purchasing power" of Biden's war chest.)

 

[Bill Cosby]

So enlighten me as to when the greatness began and when it ended.

By the way.... Don't vote. The election is already rigged. Your vote won't be counted anyway. That's what Trump says.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/trump-claims-2024-will-be-rigged-putting-republican-turnout-at-risk-830b213d

Trump said the exact same thing everyone has said to you repeatedly. Republicans voters need to overcome the democrat margin of fraud.

Your link says that. Trump said the exact opposite of what you claim he did, you illiterate dumbass.

 

[Dionysus444]

Is it "random chance" that causes bubbles when you pour vinegar into baking soda like a grade schooler?


No, but it requires an outside force to do that, in this case, "you" (getting the baking soda and vinegar, and then doing the pouring) which is the entire point chief... LOL

Oh quit being obtuse, physical mechanical interactions are happening every femtosecond. Only a tiny, tiny fraction of those are 'life'. And an even infinitesimally smaller subset 'intelligent' or 'designed'.

 

[Dionysus444]

Is it "random chance" that causes bubbles when you pour vinegar into baking soda like a grade schooler?


No, but it requires an outside force to do that, in this case, "you" (getting the baking soda and vinegar, and then doing the pouring) which is the entire point chief... LOL


But, let's table this until others get up and get a chance to weigh in.

On another subject; it's starting to look like Kamala is NOT actually entitled to the campaign war chest. According the FEC, that money has to be returned, OR it can be given to a Super PAC (which has it's own issues, because they are charged a lot more for advertisements than candidates are, so it greatly deflates the "purchasing power" of Biden's war chest.)

Which would be two out of three options I already answered this question with, but you forgot the third and most likely. That being the path pioneered by Bloomberg and his millions in the 2020 primary when he dropped out and gave it all to the DNC.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Did Biden have to sign legal paperwork to file with the FEC?

If he did put a pen on paper, no way he knew what he was signing.

Does anyone have standing to contest the validity of the paperwork filled with the FTC to give Harris a hundred million?

 

[HymanKaplan]

Oh quit being obtuse, physical mechanical interactions are happening every femtosecond. Only a tiny, tiny fraction of those are 'life'. And an even infinitesimally smaller subset 'intelligent' or 'designed'.

You literally don't even know what you're arguing about, do you. LOL

 

[HymanKaplan]

Did Biden have to sign legal paperwork to file with the FEC?

If he did put a pen on paper, no way he knew what he was signing.

Does anyone have standing to contest the validity of the paperwork filled with the FTC to give Harris a hundred million?

It's irrelevant. He cannot "give" the money to the DNC or Kamala. It has to go to a PAC, which, while legal, is going to reduce the purchasing power of that money.

Now, that doesn't mean the DNC won't TRY to do reallocate it, but that is where someone will have to file a legal challenge to keep them from doing it (or, at the very least, get an injunction)

 

[Dionysus444]

You literally don't even know what you're arguing about, do you. LOL

Yeah, the formation of the complex molecules that were the precursors to what you would call life. But like you said let's table. Too much talkie; not enough readie.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Introspection about what? Why does the religion of their occupiers matter other than to bigots like yourself? It doesn't matter who is doing the occupying, of what religion, it's about freedom and self-determination. That right there proves for you it's only about the sectarian violence and which sect you back, compared to for me it being about freedom from oppression.

 

[AustinTXCat]

Stay tuned.

Futures rise after Biden pulls out of presidential race

Biden announced he was exiting the race on Sunday, and endorsed Vice President Kamala Harris for the Democratic ticket. Megacap stocks were up premarket, with Meta Platforms, Alphabet and Apple up between 0.5% and 0.8%, boosting the Nasdaq and S&P 500 futures. At 4:17 a.m. ET, Dow e-minis were...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Bill Cosby]

Regardless, Dean Phillips or someone needs to file for an emergency injunction stopping delegates from being pledged and stopping any Joe Biden donations from being spent, until we have proof of life and it’s proven Joe Biden was mentally competent and made the decision/signed the papers.

 

[ukalum1988]

Bear in mind. Dems didn’t allow Biden any opposition in the primaries. Obviously no debates. Now due to polling the party elite push him out. Have no question that if Harris isn’t polling well, she will be discarded. Very Marxist process they have over there. At least they still allow polling i guess. No wonder Dion loves them.

The Dems were obviously counting on a much different outcome to their lawfare approach vs Trump….. They expected Trump to be convicted / disqualified / etc, giving Biden a glide path a re-election.

Needless to say things turned out quite differently.

 

[Catfan in Tn.]

Top Republican warns of 'rude awakening' if 'stonewalling' continues as Secret Service director faces hearing

Rep. Anna Paulina Luna, a member of the House Oversight Committee that will grill Cheatle on Monday, offered exclusive reaction to Fox News Digital.

www.foxnews.com

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Regardless, Dean Phillips or someone needs to file for an emergency injunction stopping delegates from being pledged and stopping any Joe Biden donations from being spent, until we have proof of life and it’s proven Joe Biden was mentally competent and made the decision/signed the papers.

Its insane to think the president of the united states Twitter account simply tweeted he wasnt running for reelection. No statement, because he can barely talk.

For nearly four years our nation is run by god knows who. If reports are to be believed, no cabinet meetings for as much as 7 months. Even then, who knows who ran those because it wasnt brain dead joe.

Everyone involved should go to jail. Every presidential act, including signing any bills, put into motion at least in the last 12 months should be challenged on the ground of mental competency. The man was already gone by last election but did have some moments of lucidity at least in public after god knows what drugs they pumped into him. However these last 12 months he is just a sack of skin.

Going to be interesting to see if he conveniently dies before they have to invoke the 25th. Because it sure seems one of those two outcomes is the only way shes getting on the ballot in at least two battleground states. I say conveniently dies, because invoking the 25th is not only incredibly embarrassing its also without precedent and instantly calls into question everything he did at least the last several months which opens a giant can of worms they dont want to open. The final option is to do neither and just not be on the ballot in those two states meaning theyre conceding the presidency but trying to salvage down ballot.

 

[cole854]

That chemistry had been happening for billions of years before Earth even coalesced.

What chemistry?

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

 

[Girthang]

You literally don't even know what you're arguing about, do you. LOL

He's arguing definitions of words, not math, not probabilities, so no, he has no idea that he's actually adding to the improbability by including another set of variables and complexity that applies to life itself (in his own belief system). The magical thinking required to believe frogs jumped out of a pond where no eggs were ever laid and no frogs or frog dna were ever able to enter requires more magical thinking than it does to believe a frog and/or a frog's eggs were put there or allowed there by some being.

He's just too miseducated to grasp that concept.

 

[SDC888]

Imagine not being able to see through the vile democrat racist rhetoric, allowing them to ruin your life as they exploit you for the useful idiots you are.

Especially when I see people with MAGA hats, they're always so respectful. And maybe they're just trying to hide their racism. Right? That's another comment that people make is, oh, well, you don't know what they say behind closed doors. I don't care. If you're gonna make fun of me behind closed doors, why would I choose to assume you're making fun of me behind closed doors and then live under that umbrella of oppression because you said something meeny weeny behind closed doors, and I'm supposed to live under that. That's ridiculous. It's like this perpetuation of of of victimhood that even if it doesn't affect you, you should make sure it affects you. It's ridiculous. It's basically trying to perpetuate people to live in this this this low society even though they're not experiencing it in reality.”

 

[Girthang]

Bear in mind. Dems didn’t allow Biden any opposition in the primaries. Obviously no debates.

On purpose, because this was likely part of the plan all along. They avoided having to put anyone into debates and endless scrutiny to which their lack of platform wouldn't stand up. Their policies across the board and across the country are failures for all but the richest people, and this way they won't ever have to talk about it in a public forum.

Now due to polling the party elite push him out. Have no question that WHEN Harris isn’t polling well, she will be discarded.

Slight adjustment. They knew she wouldn't.

Very Marxist process they have over there. At least they still allow polling i guess. No wonder Dion loves them.

Exactly. Politbureau style. Make it all about personna, projection, and image, when it's really about policies and the people.

 

[Dionysus444]

What chemistry?

Forging of more complex molecules from simpler ones.

 

[sammysdad05]

As someone firmly in the “they are all crooks” camp, I think MAGA simply means Make America a country that doesn’t chop off teenage boys peckers, promote literal Satanism on broadcast television, and have a 50% rate of broken homes Again.

Or maybe people secretly want to own slaves again. I guess your guess is as good as mine

And how does Trump fix any of that other than to give you a happy feeling that you owned the libs? He’s not going to fix the broken home situation. He’s not God dude. No one is promoting satanism in the current administration so what is Trump going to do to fix that? Stop tying the office of the presidency to our societal ills. No president is fixing that. Especially a person as awful as Trump has been his entire life. If your life sucks so much that you think a person like Trump is going to fix it, then that’s a you problem. Grow up.

 

[cole854]

Forging of more complex molecules from simpler ones.

Where did these molecules come from?

 

[AshWilliams]

The universe, so they tell us, is around 13.7 billion years old, which is the blink of an eye, with respect to the number of calculations necessary to, as I said, for a simple protein chain to be coded properly, as described in his illustration. IOW, the entire universe hasn't been around long enough for even the basic building blocks (we're not even up to actual life forms yet) to have been formed by chance. It's math, my man.

Look, you are you, and I'd expect nothing else than for you to argue over this, but you're way out of your depth here.

He didn’t even watch the video. Trust me. You’re wasting your time.

 

[cole854]

Stop tying the office of the presidency to our societal ills.

This statement right here is evidence you are either completely clueless in regards to the "ills" you reference, or your head is in the sand as to how our "societal ills" have progressively (no pun intended) gotten worse under Biden.

 

[Lost In FL]

Interesting discussion, given the origin of life free for all from a few days back. It conveys, much more eloquently than I can, what I have been trying to say for years; which is that it is essentially a fairy tale that life arose and evolved through mere serendipity. IOW - If you hold to that, you are expressing far more faith than those that believe in a creator (and I'm not talking about religion here)

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Been trying to tell you ... I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. I choose my belief based on the facts, evidence, and reason. It is the most logical explanation.