POLITICAL THREAD
- Thread starter kybobcat
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-the nordic countries have homogeneous populations. This is wrong
-They are not true socialist states as the bills are still footed by capitalism/corporations. This is wrong since it is common knowledge they have a heavy tax load that they feel is well spent.
-The reason could Europe can afford great social is because they have not paid much to defend themselves since the end of ww2. This ignores the fact that after WWII Europe was basically destroyed to the point of near complete rubble. There is some truth to this but it is exaggerated greatly. For example some of the biggest arms dealers and manufacturers are from Europe.
-we have had a dash of socialism since the early 1900's. Taxes collected to provide a safety net are a good thing...but it has to be limited or it will collapse under its own weight. It always does. I will simply say that if all the FICA taxes had been used as they were intended this would not be a problem. Social Security has been raided by presidents and congress from both parties. We are running our country like the person who pays his credit card bill with another credit card.
-stalin/mai was far from ineffectual leaders. Their various pogroms/5 year plans did exactly what they were set out to do...control population. Their famines were planned and executed brilliantly. I have no love for either, but that goes back to my point about human frailty and evil being prosecuted by human beings in power.
-They are not true socialist states as the bills are still footed by capitalism/corporations. This is wrong since it is common knowledge they have a heavy tax load that they feel is well spent.
-The reason could Europe can afford great social is because they have not paid much to defend themselves since the end of ww2. This ignores the fact that after WWII Europe was basically destroyed to the point of near complete rubble. There is some truth to this but it is exaggerated greatly. For example some of the biggest arms dealers and manufacturers are from Europe.
-we have had a dash of socialism since the early 1900's. Taxes collected to provide a safety net are a good thing...but it has to be limited or it will collapse under its own weight. It always does. I will simply say that if all the FICA taxes had been used as they were intended this would not be a problem. Social Security has been raided by presidents and congress from both parties. We are running our country like the person who pays his credit card bill with another credit card.
-stalin/mai was far from ineffectual leaders. Their various pogroms/5 year plans did exactly what they were set out to do...control population. Their famines were planned and executed brilliantly. I have no love for either, but that goes back to my point about human frailty and evil being prosecuted by human beings in power.
Sounds like you have it all figured out. Why are you on here?
Run for office. Take down Trump!!!
-no. They are getting some influx of late...but they have been historically homogeneous. There is no debate here.
-what? They may be happy...but capitalism and corps are still footing the bill.
-the us paid for nato *long* after European reconstruction. We still pay 70% of nato iirc.
-common ground. We have a spending problem. A nation cannot tax its way to prosperity.
-there is the rub. Absolute socialism will never work.
-what? They may be happy...but capitalism and corps are still footing the bill.
-the us paid for nato *long* after European reconstruction. We still pay 70% of nato iirc.
-common ground. We have a spending problem. A nation cannot tax its way to prosperity.
-there is the rub. Absolute socialism will never work.
Humans are faulty, the problem is in the communist govt, the leader has absolute power. China just made their leader permanent this year.
How can you post all you’ve posted about proper checks and balances, which I and most agree with, when Obama was given free reign?
They were spying on a presidential nominee, then elect after the election. With the sole purpose of ending his presidency or protecting their legacy. Race relations deteriorated, how many riots and destruction of property over false allegations enhanced by the administration?
The complete shambles of a foreign policy, the lack of intervention or even selling of lethal weapons in Ukraine?
ISIS which is all but eliminated ran rampant, attacking all over the west, funny how they went silent.
The economy was propped up by the Fed reserve holding interest rates at zero for the longest time in history, rising immediately after the election.
Obama was propped up because he was a minority, everyone that criticized him was labeled a racist. They did him no favors with that treatment, history will show that.
- lol. That has nothing to do with what was said. The Nordic countries are not socialists because the state does not control the means of production. They are mixed economies with large welfare programs. That isn't socialism. Then you replied with something about them liking how the money was spent? That has nothing to do with what rudd said
- There was also this little thing called the Marshal Plan. And arms manufacturing has nothing to do with military spending. FN, CZ, Beretta, etc. may all make tons of weapons, but if the countries of Europe aren't the ones buying them, then all it means is Europe has a healthy private arms manufacturing sector. Of course, even if all those weapons were destined for European armies, there is a lot more to defense spending than just purchasing small arms and vehicles. On that front, most of European as unquestionably failed.
Nor will absolute capitalism. Kentucky is more homogeneous than Sweden. The people are taxed heavily to provide the government services they like so much. They think they are better off in the end. The point of the WWII item is we were the only resource for European defense for a long time and we became quite use to having that network of military bases all over the world.
Love Trump trolling the lefties bu making sure to congratulate Putin and Russia.
Nothing captures the socialist dream better than the idea that if I work my tail off ..... At the end of the week, I have the same as the guy who did nothing.
That is guaranteed to always fail.
Why lefties do not understand this is beyond me?
That is guaranteed to always fail.
Why lefties do not understand this is beyond me?
Fascinating that Libs are now openly touting the wonders of socialism not only on here, but in the wider media outlets as well. It's almost as if they get their talking points from the same place. Is this their revolution? Socialism? ![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
. Good luck with that.
. Good luck with that.
I get the smaller population argument because any system becomes more complicated and unwieldy the larger it becomes. Once again though that isn't a specific criticism of socialism, it's a universal truth about all systems. What I don't get are the statements about ethnicity. What does ethnicity have to do with governmental system? Political philosophies are ideas, why would one population be able to grasp them and another not?
This is the exact point. No one would want a "true socialist" society any more than they would a "true capitalist" society. Pure socialism would mean singular government control of all industry, which as the history of monopolies in any system shows us is a world without competition which quashes incentive to innovate. Pure capitalism would mean allowing ANYTHING that increased profits, be that instituting slavery for free labor, dumping toxic by-products anywhere with no restrictions, or manipulating markets to artificially inflate prices. No system yet devised works perfectly in a "pure" form, probably because we as humans aren't perfect. What we want and mostly have in America and Europe is a mix of the two, where a base capitalistic structure provides competition for consumers and thus reasons to optimize and innovate, and socialist regulations on those industries so that cost-saving practices harmful to the public at large are avoided. An individual has no bargaining power with a corporation so we collectively negotiate to keep them from poisoning us to save a buck during production. We limit the control any one system has over our individual freedoms by splitting up the power invested in it.
Famines in the USSR and Maoist China happened for several different reasons. There were both intentional misallocation of resources to control populations perceived as problems for the administrations and accidental ineptitude leading to resource mismanagement brought on by sycophantic worship of the dictator. Prime examples for the former being the Ukrainian Holodomor(Great Famine) and the latter being Lysenkoism in the Soviet Union and the Great Leap Forward in Maoist China.
You need to revisit how the world describes the Nordic system of government. Nobody is talking in pure terms as almost all governments today are a hybrid of ideas after the cold war.
Boy you're missing on nearly all cylinders. Europe did not make the USA build 20 aircraft carriers. Our military decisions are our own, cannot foist that on Europe. However it is true that a secure Europe is in our best interest so it's not like Europe has been robbing our national budgets.
It really is a gift.Fascinating that Libs are now openly touting the wonders of socialism not only on here, but in the wider media outlets as well. It's almost as if they get their talking points from the same place. Is this their revolution? Socialism?
What you describe is equality of outcome, aka communism, not socialism. Please do some research.
I did research and found out Hitler was a socialist am I doing okay?
Are you aware of Milton Friedman's entire history? Do you know about his colossal failures before Reagan used him to capture the imaginations of so many?
Will be interesting. Still think social media will shut him down soon.
I cant understand why libertarians and republicans don't quote milton Friedman. The man was a genius.
Actually he was a Nazi.
According to the Holocaust Encyclopedia:
In the months after Hitler took power, SA and Gestapo agents went from door to door looking for Hitler’s enemies. They arrested Socialists, Communists, trade union leaders, and others who had spoken out against the Nazi party; some were murdered. By the summer of 1933, the Nazi party was the only legal political party in Germany. Nearly all organized opposition to the regime had been eliminated. Democracy was dead in Germany.
So---no.
You're not even making coherent arguments.
In order to be socialist, the government/people must own or operate the means of production on some level. It isn't about "pure terms", it's about the Nordic countries not even being close to what a truly socialist economy looks like. You just simply don't what you're talking about.
And what the hell are you talking about with aircraft carriers? Europe, by and large, relies on the US as an implied supplementary military and your assertion that they produce a lot of arms has literally no bearing on that. They're simply unrelated. The US may very well spend exactly the same as we do now, even if European countries had more robust military, but the point is that they know they don't have to have one.
Just please answer or respond in coherent sentences that mirror the initial response in some way, so that someone can easily follow your ignorance.
Not at all. Nazism was explicitly set up as an opposite of Marxist communism, the National Socialism label was specifically used as an attempt to redefine socialism which was universally popular. The communists were the bogeyman of Nazi Germany used to justify martial law and atrocities, ever here of the Reichstag Fire?
He didn't fail, his ideas just were not implemented correctly. #amidoingthisright
Those would be "international socialists" i.e. Marxists. The Nazis believed in private ownership only insofar as it benefited the advancement of the state's ideologies, and would nationalize an industry if they considered it to be best for the nation. And even the private industry that existed was "regulated", or rather, explicitly allowed to exist under specific privilege and direction of the Nazi party.
the political principles of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
Because cultures are different Dion. It’s as simple as that. What one culture holds dear, another culture may think it’s useless.
The biggest problem with the Soros/elections can be rigged here narrative...is that Donald Trump won.
If there was ever an election that a supposed deep state would fix in one direction...surely it would be Clinton over Trump.
Did you watch the video? Pay attention to the part with the hypothetical about sugar. He's laying out the capitalist argument against tariffs, which conservatives seems to have done a complete 180 on since then. He even says it'd be unthinkable for the American populace to say they were willing to pay higher prices for American-made goods.
Why are you so stupid, yet insist on speaking to people like you have even the most cursory understanding of a topic? Please read something...anything, about the difference between Marxist/International Socialism and National Socialism.
For that matter, you realize the tense Sino-Russia relations during the Cold War were, partly, about Maoist Communism vs Leninist Communism, right? Well, of course you don't realize that. You apparently think not liking some form of socialism means you can't be a socialist, ipso facto.
Again, please read something other than a HuffPost piece linked on Facebook. It might actually take if you give it a try
This is a great example. The real world is more complicated than "private enterprise is good" and "government control is terrible". It depends on the specifics of certain situations.
Dion and Levi need to head down to Venezuela.
How would you two fix that socialist dream?
And the Nazis aren't socialist because well they're just not socialist.
Milton Friedman was a failure. Based on what?
How would you two fix that socialist dream?
And the Nazis aren't socialist because well they're just not socialist.
Milton Friedman was a failure. Based on what?
FTR, the original post about those companies was to show that having a healthy arms manufacturing sector had no correlation with the actual amount spent on defense by a nation. You can take "private" out of my original post and the point still stands.
So, while FN is owned by a government owned holding group, that doesn't mean Belgium is pulling its weight in defense spending.
This is wrong. Sweden was neutral in WW2. Zero happened there. Germany took over Denmark with nary a fight & nothing happened thereafter. Norway was invaded by Germany & quickly subdued with little damage. Spain, Portugal, Ireland & Switzerland were also all neutral.
I can’t imagine what D party leadership is feeling right now.....prolly chewing gum rapidly to have enough to stick in the dam. I imagine having to fend off open “democratic socialism” as a takeover of their party is something they never considered in their wildest.Fascinating that Libs are now openly touting the wonders of socialism not only on here, but in the wider media outlets as well. It's almost as if they get their talking points from the same place. Is this their revolution? Socialism?
Will play well in WI MI PA tho lol (not going to count OH is some kind of tossup anymore as Ds got straight *murked* there).
Levi/Dion etc.....what’s th electoral plan, hombres? For real.....what’s the plan?
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
People and human nature are the variable in any system. Someone(s) in control will always become greedy no matter the system. Socialism always sounds good on paper, but it never works like it’s supposed to because of human nature.
It’s like saying we’re going to end (insert here). Let’s use murder to insert. As long as evil humans are around, it’s not going to end. Let’s insert racism. Same. Human nature is the uncontrollable variable that will never allow anything to work to perfection.
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