POLITICAL THREAD

[stevo51]

^ the bankruptcy issue is relevant to the extent that people tout his business experience and personal wealth. Regardless, he was born into wealth and increased it, although we cannot know whether he outperformed even a market index fund or is awesome at business. He's not a guy that started from the ground up, and untangling his contributions is neigh impossible because we don't know 1) what he got from family and when, 2) how much he has now, and 3) what effect bankruptcy had on his companies. Hard to suss out noise from fact.

But at least we're rallying behind the strong strength of strong men again. Was worried that we'd resorted to reason and deliberation. Trump - the truck nuts of presidential candidates.

A wealthy industrialist wanted to start the process of grooming his son to be his successor. Calling him into his office he told him "son, you're going to run this far flung empire but I have to know you're capable. I am going to give you one million dollars. In 12 months you have to turn it into three million dollars. Then we will know you have what it takes to run this company."
So the commences to turn 1 million into 3.
At the end of twelve months he comes back admitting failure.
"Dad, I turned the 1 million into 3 million but now I am broke!"
"What happened" asked the father?
"I bought a boat, loaned it to some friends and there was a fuel mishap. One of them got burned, sued, and we settled for a million."
"Then a pilot friend borrowed the airplane I owned, crashed, and was killed. His gay lover sued and won a million"
"Then my wife decided to get while the getting was good, divorced me and got the last million."
"So not only did it not turn the one million into three, I lost the original million!"
The industrialist replied " that's ok son. YouVe learned a valuable lesson. Remember, if it floats, flys, or ****s.......rent it!"

 

[krazykats]

I'm mad that the Trump humpers will defend this piece of shit Democrat running for the wrong party. You are practically guaranteeing a Hillary presidency by supporting this blithering moron. THAT'S what pisses me off.

Ok, fair enough but I would warn you to pay attention because Bernie Sanders is about to beat that bitch. I'm to the point that I truly believe despite the media's effort that real people are just not buying her BS. Bernie honest to god has a better plan for those democrats that care, and the race baiting BS was starting to back fire on Obama finally and will be the end of Hiliary too.

As far as Trump, he is a complete wildcard. The one thing I do fear though is both sides saying F this and Trump saying ok EO this and EO that. That is honest to god my only fear.

 

[DaBossIsBack]

now now Daboss. You're a good dude. Warrior is a good dude too. Let's not get crazy.

Ignoring Warrior won't give you anyone to debate ideas. All you'll be left with is listening to Albanycat spoon f*** Hillary with his tongue. Is that the kinda world you wanna live in? A guy who sniffs his own farts and drives a Prius?

Very true Willy. Thanks for giving me a little perspective.

 

[krazykats]

Wow they deleted DaBoss's very racist take?

 

[ymmot31]

Watch out Willy, you're teetering on that edge of saying it doesn't matter who you root for, both are equally evil. Sure, it's fun to discuss this stuff, but it's much more fun if you have enough to not be concerned. You are in a career that is recession proof. The worse it gets, the more business you have. You are a spectator.

I'm a spectator as well. Regardless of what happens, as long as there is an organized society, I'm making money.

Government could just as easily have been called Controlment. That's what they do. Different methods and descriptions, but they are all the same in their end game. Control the people. Some come right out and say, "you have no say, you own nothing". Others, like ours, say " we are you, you own everything".

I am blissfully drunk.

 

[Willy4UK]

Watch out Willy, you're teetering on that edge of saying it doesn't matter who you root for, both are equally evil. Sure, it's fun to discuss this stuff, but it's much more fun if you have enough to not be concerned. You are in a career that is recession proof. The worse it gets, the more business you have. You are a spectator.

I'm a spectator as well. Regardless of what happens, as long as there is an organized society, I'm making money.

Government could just as easily have been called Controlment. That's what they do. Different methods and descriptions, but they are all the same in their end game. Control the people. Some come right out and say, "you have no say, you own nothing". Others, like ours, say " we are you, you own everything".

I am blissfully drunk.

You're right. I agree with everything Ymmot.

I guess my problem is the frustration of people who keep voting for parties who are both destroying this country and its voters lacking 100% insight and blaming the other person. In a real world setting, both would be fired, and never rehired. Ever again. But that doesn't happen here. No. Not only do they screw shit up, they are rewarded with more power control every election. That's effing messed up.

 

[Willy4UK]

The industrialist replied " that's ok son. YouVe learned a valuable lesson. Remember, if it floats, flys, or ****s.......rent it!"

hahaha

 

[Willy4UK]

Very true Willy. Thanks for giving me a little perspective.

You've given me perspective. Every person in this thread gives me perspective, whether its Grannysleeves, CATS 1945, or even fart sniffing Albany. All give me perspective that I respect.

 

[Willy4UK]

You are in a career that is recession proof.

Eff it. I'm drunk too. So I'll keep blabbering way. On a 11% imperial stout Tiny, Weyerbacher.

You're right man, my career is recession proof. I'm the dying & death profession. No way that's going outta business anytime soon. Although if Ray Kurzeil has something to say about it.... hmmmmm

 

[Willy4UK]

Here's a tip. If anytime in a discussion someone "yeah, buts" you. Just realize you're not changing their mind. It's anxiety induction (It's the surface emotion) You've just asked someone to change their views from their present belief system to a new belief system. There is no safety net when they plunge for the new view. . People stick with the old routine belief even if it isn't benefiting them, because they have already learned the consequential emotions called "security seeking behaviors" through (below surface emotion) anger, avoidance, shame... etc... and that has become their baseline. Why open up to yourself to new hurt by having a new view????

Derp derp derp

 

[warrior-cat]

Eff it. I'm drunk too. So I'll keep blabbering way. On a 11% imperial stout Tiny, Weyerbacher.

You're right man, my career is recession proof. I'm the dying & death profession. No way that's going outta business anytime soon. Although if Ray Kurzeil has something to say about it.... hmmmmm

I was until this morning. As some have said, I too get ticked when I see that it is all the same BS day in and day out and what some people do not realize is that when you have struggled most of your life to get some where and finally do, you are willing to fight to keep it. Giving it to someone else because they feel they are entitled just rubs me the wrong way. Earn it. Not saying that I don't want to help the poor because I do give and give a lot but, you must first want to help yourself and show you are willing to contribute as well as take. There are a lot of entitlement minded people out there today that some do no see.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Milton Friedman never argued that an income tax inhibits upward mobility, he argued that a lack of wealth to cover basic needs inhibited upward mobility. He advocated for a hyper progressive income tax (called the Negative Income Tax) to create opportunity in wage earners below a certain (very low) income threshold in lieu of government handouts, while still keeping the income tax structure on middle and upper tax brackets.

But his most favored plan was a flat-tax on income, which you've already dismissed. Obviously Friedman openly supported cutting taxes in any way, shape, or form if our end goal was solely to strengthen the economy.

I will take his word for it though, thanks for bringing him into this.

Took me awhile since Ive been both busy, and sick. But you can review my accurate representation of what Friedman wrote about income tax inhibiting upward mobility in his book Capitalism and Freedom (an excellent read, btw), beginning at page 173 where he begins the discussion by saying a graduated tax structure is a tax on becoming wealthy, rather than on being wealthy. He then goes on to say this structure impedes the accumulation of wealth. He then finishes by arguing for a flat tax rate on income above an exemption, with a very broad definition of income.

Your representation of his negative income tax is his solution to removing handouts and reducing government welfare.

Unfortunately for you, it takes actual study and reading of his materials to understand his theories. Not just google searches or wiki.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Ok, fair enough but I would warn you to pay attention because Bernie Sanders is about to beat that bitch. I'm to the point that I truly believe despite the media's effort that real people are just not buying her BS. Bernie honest to god has a better plan for those democrats that care, and the race baiting BS was starting to back fire on Obama finally and will be the end of Hiliary too.

It will take a miracle, imo. Sanders may win the votes, but he wont have the delegates. She has a gigantic lead on him there. It would take a convincing electoral victory for those delegates to shun the Clintons, imo.

As far as Trump, he is a complete wildcard. The one thing I do fear though is both sides saying F this and Trump saying ok EO this and EO that. That is honest to god my only fear.

Exactly. His ego is my main concern as well. Otherwise, hed be almost exactly what Im looking for.

You've given me perspective. Every person in this thread gives me perspective, whether its Grannysleeves, CATS 1945, or even fart sniffing Albany. All give me perspective that I respect.

Great point. Even the awful cheerleading posters let you see just how uninformed and gullible most americans are today. Its important to ignore viewpoints just because you dont like them. Then, every once in a blue moon, someone brings up something good that changes your mind on an issue.

Thats why I wont put anyone on ignore.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Wait till the Sanders voting block figures out the "superdelagate" nonsense that the D machine has rigged....should be tasty.

I get that the R establishment is awful too but the superdelagate crap would be enough for me to get out. Amazing how much disdain D leadership has for actual, you know, people.

But make sure you go do your job every four years, black folk! Sneak as many over as you can, Mehico! You want to vote for Sanders? Ohhhh that's adorable...just remember that Republicans want to murder you and we'll see you in Nove!!! Can't wait, besties!!!!

God help them if any minorities ever figure out how the Democrat Party actually views them....

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Mark Cuban says the only candidate he would consider being VP for would be Trump. Pretty interesting. I have tons of respect for Cuban, and wish he wouldve run for president. Hed be like Trump, but without the wild ego.

 

[qwesley]

There is no safety net when they plunge for the new view.

Not to sound LEKish but the vast majority of political opinions are a clear definition of confirmation bias. They only seek info until they find something they like and then they close off. It is why I scoff at liberals that call themselves open minded and then spew NYT or Vox info as gospel since they use big words... and also refuse to criticize their own.

 

[qwesley]

God help them if any minorities ever figure out how the Democrat Party actually views them....

If that race goes the distance I can't imagine the what kind of pandering we will see in a month or two. We could see reparation discussions pop up. HRC said she will end the "schools to prison" path. Uh, okay.

 

[CatDaddy4daWin]

Wait till the Sanders voting block figures out the "superdelagate" nonsense that the D machine has rigged....should be tasty.

I get that the R establishment is awful too but the superdelagate crap would be enough for me to get out. Amazing how much disdain D leadership has for actual, you know, people.

But make sure you go do your job every four years, black folk! Sneak as many over as you can, Mehico! You want to vote for Sanders? Ohhhh that's adorable...just remember that Republicans want to murder you and we'll see you in Nove!!! Can't wait, besties!!!!

God help them if any minorities ever figure out how the Democrat Party actually views them....

Meanwhile a real live racist and bigot is winning the Republican nomination. But you keep on with how those Democrats hate the blackies. God, you people are freakin stupid.

 

[-LEK-]

Wow they deleted DaBoss's very racist take?

Summary?

 

[fuzz77]

The problem with that is that that is not where they cut most of the time. I am not against cutting in those areas but, until we make that commitment, we cannot not afford to let them cut troop strength and troop care. As far as bases around the world I agree and have said on numerous occasions that we need to pull out of all areas unless those countries agree to at least foot half of the bill or more.

So by your circular logic the military budget can never be cut and waste will forever be tolerated and perpetuated because you don't trust where they will cut.

If I call for military spending cuts and I specify specific programs that I want cut, programs that the Pentagon itself says it doesn't want or need...how can you not support and not call for the same?
As far as problems with the VA...my solution to the VA is to essentially replace it or redefine its purpose. All servicemen and veterans would receive a health service card that would essentially be lifetime health insurance that was good anywhere. If it made sense, perhaps a few VA hospitals would stay open that specialized in things like PTSD, prosthetics, TBI and other ailments that are common to soldiers...but in general any veteran could seek healthcare wherever they chose. Of course, I support a single payer system and if/when...because I truly believe it is a case of when, not if...that will all be moot.

The deal with contractors...why have we contracted out essential functions of supplying and supporting an army? I've got probably a half dozen friends from high school who work as contractors for the military.

Lastly, I've asked a few times and never received an answer. We constantly hear criticisms of the POTUS that he has "torn down the military" and that it needs to be "built back up". What has been torn down? What needs rebuilding?

 

[DaBossIsBack]

Summary?

I deleted it. And it wasn't racist. Uncalled for, immature, but not racist.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Lastly, I've asked a few times and never received an answer. We constantly hear criticisms of the POTUS that he has "torn down the military" and that it needs to be "built back up". What has been torn down? What needs rebuilding?

Maybe you haven't gotten an answer because you haven't quoted the poster who said it but put quotations in your question. Actually quoting someone on here who said it may go a long way to getting a response. If not, it sounds like you're just throwing out bullshit and saying "I've asked a few times" to make it sound like someone specific is dodging your rathole questions.

 

[Big_Blue79]

I am blissfully drunk.

Wish I was so.

If I call for military spending cuts and I specify specific programs that I want cut, programs that the Pentagon itself says it doesn't want or need...how can you not support and not call for the same?

The deal with contractors...why have we contracted out essential functions of supplying and supporting an army? I've got probably a half dozen friends from high school who work as contractors for the military.

I am continually frustrated, but not surprised, by how much the MI complex dictates military spending moreso than the Pentagon or actual needs. It's crazy and costs literally billions every year. But it's a jobs program. No coincidence that expensive programs are built with parts from all 50 states, or located in certain districts.

As far as contractors, have to break it down more than just a blanket contractors thing. You have technical support for programs, in which contractors are pretty much unavoidable and, imho, worth every cent (I was an Airman and contractor for the Predator and other drone programs). The limits on what service members can do (practical, skill, restrictions like "has to be in the TO") really make it tough for them to even compete. When you can't do any real troubleshooting, your job is essentially paperwork and running military programs (records, training, security stuff, etc...).

But what about contractors for things like chow halls, gyms, even guard duty? I've been on deployments where an Airman was handing out towels and wiping down gym equipment because "services" is a legit job in the military. Why? Or serving food - nothing more disgusting than a military chow hall. [True story - I was at a base that had... severe issues getting supplies for a bit. Chow hall ran out of bleach, didn't tell anyone, and over 200 people (~ 40% of the Americans on the base) missed work with diarrhea. MREs for weeks after that]. Running gyms and serving food might not be core services anymore, at least on a large scale where contractor support (from third country nationals that work for much cheaper than Americans) is available.

Contractors make a lot of cash (well, some of them, many make what they could get as regular civilians), but they don't incur other substantial costs like 1) military training, 2) all the ancillary benefits service members receive - GI Bill, VA stuff (not just disability), shopping at the BX/PX and commissary, relocation costs (service members move often, probably every 3-5 years on average), etc... I'm rambling, but I guess my point is that I don't think contractors are really the main budget problem with the military. I'm sure there's waste, probably in the billions, but when you read about the other crap (literally tanks no one wants at all) it just seems like a drop in the bucket.

 

[fuzz77]

Maybe you haven't gotten an answer because you haven't quoted the poster who said it but put quotations in your question. Actually quoting someone on here who said it may go a long way to getting a response. If not, it sounds like you're just throwing out bullshit and saying "I've asked a few times" to make it sound like someone specific is dodging your rathole questions.

So asking a general question about a specific claim being made daily on the campaign trail by several GOP contenders to a board that is dominated by GOP leaning contributors is somehow a "rathole question"? Wow!
Your response screams "I don't have a clue so don't ask.".

 

[Bill Cosby]

Honestly, my response probably would be I don't have a clue so don't ask.

I don't have a clue who actually said it. I don't have a clue what context they said it in. I don't have a clue who you're talking about specifically. I don't have a clue why you'd expect someone on here to jump at the opportunity to support things you say someone else said but haven't quoted.

You get more criticism of the republican party on here from the conservative posters than anyone else. So to say the board is "GOP leaning" and expect someone to just blindly support your uncited quotes is moronic.

 

[fuzz77]

Honestly, my response probably would be I don't have a clue so don't ask.

I don't have a clue who actually said it. I don't have a clue what context they said it in. I don't have a clue who you're talking about specifically. I don't have a clue why you'd expect someone on here to jump at the opportunity to support things you say someone else said but haven't quoted.

You get more criticism of the republican party on here from the conservative posters than anyone else. So to say the board is "GOP leaning" and expect someone to just blindly support your uncited quotes is moronic.

Ok...
From Military.com no less..."It's become a staple for the Republican candidates to trash Obama and argue that he has failed to spend enough on defense. At the debates and campaign stops, they've cast him as a feckless commander in chief, standing idly by while the world's finest military withers away."

Republican presidential candidate Marco Rubio maintains that President Barack Obama is more interested in providing money to Planned Parenthood than for the nation's armed forces. The front-runner in the GOP race, Donald Trump, says the U.S. military is a "disaster." Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush says the Obama administration has "gutted" every weapons system in the U.S. military's inventory.

Ted Cruz..."America now faces a momentous decision. Almost a decade of irresponsible defense cuts has slashed the number of combat personnel, seriously degraded their combat readiness, and shrunk the size of our Army, Navy and Air Force below any reasonable standard..."

From Rubio's website...
Restoring Military Strength
Marco’s plans to strengthen the military will ensure that our service members will go into battle with the best training and equipment we can offer.

 

[-LEK-]

Your conjecture has no power over me, pander to a dumbass like lek. Hillary has no chance.

I love that you beg for my attention in every post. Its odd to have so much power over someone.

Its also cute that you call people dumb, considering you have to be one of the top 3 dumbest posters on the paddock.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Ok...
Marco Rubio
Donald Trump
Jeb Bush
Ted Cruz..
From Rubio's website...

It's a vague claim that gets applause that comes up every 4 years. Every. 4. Years. It used to bother me for the same reason - what does it even mean? Seriously, wtf does it mean? But it's not swaying anyone who isn't 1) an idiot, or 2) already a Republican vote. It's empty rhetoric until actually explained in some detail, which doesn't happen, just like 1000 other campaign claims and promises.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Well you're half way there fuzz. Show up at one of their campaign rallies and you might finally get an answer to your question.

Hopefully you now understand why you've "asked a few times and never received an answer."

 

[fuzz77]

Well you're half way there fuzz. Show up at one of their campaign rallies and you might finally get an answer to your question.

Hopefully you now understand why you've "asked a few times and never received an answer."

If that were only the case. Rarely do politicians ever answer the question that is asked...they only answer the question that they wish was asked.

 

[WettCat]

I would like to reply to several questions that have been left unanswered:
1. No, it's Bolivia.
2. Donald Trump, Narwhals, Trident Missiles, volcanoes,
3. Syria, Venezuela and some tribal herds in Malaysia
4. Reagan, Brando and Kanye West
5. It's not really so much the military capabilities, but more how it relates to livestock production.
6. Global Warming, PT Barnum, the WWE, Bernard Madoff and Al Gore
7. 1857-1912
8. Hilary Clinton, Ellen Degeneres, Meredith Baxter, Martina Navritolva, Billie Jean King


I think that pretty much covers most of the unanswered questions from the past few months.

 

[Catfan in Tn.]

Trump, the one politician that refuses to kiss the Pope's rear end.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Trump, the one politician that refuses to kiss the Pope's rear end.

You know the rule - pics or it didn't happen. *prepares for Cruz kissing Pope's rump

 

[P19978]

Took me awhile since Ive been both busy, and sick. But you can review my accurate representation of what Friedman wrote about income tax inhibiting upward mobility in his book Capitalism and Freedom (an excellent read, btw), beginning at page 173 where he begins the discussion by saying a graduated tax structure is a tax on becoming wealthy, rather than on being wealthy. He then goes on to say this structure impedes the accumulation of wealth. He then finishes by arguing for a flat tax rate on income above an exemption, with a very broad definition of income.

Your representation of his negative income tax is his solution to removing handouts and reducing government welfare.

Unfortunately for you, it takes actual study and reading of his materials to understand his theories. Not just google searches or wiki.

The avoidance of taxes is the only intellectual pursuit that still carries any reward.
John Maynard Keynes

 

[JHB4UK]

my favorite part of Obama hope N change was how he was going to end all these foolish foreign adventures that Dubya and the GOP entangled American in

 

[Big_Blue79]

^ that's the danger of Team America: World Police. We get involved with everything, but only with bombs and intel. Rest of the world can step up any day now.

 

[krazykats]

I deleted it. And it wasn't racist. Uncalled for, immature, but not racist.

I assume your black, he is white, and by definition that post makes you racist per media standards.

Honestly I'm kidding just felt like baiting since I was almost considered racist at point because I can't stand obomba.

 

[krazykats]

Wait a minute, so now Obama isn't about hope and change because he is bombing everyone? When did Obama change from p*ssy yellow coward with no spine teaming up with Cuba and Iran?

I could have sore just yesterday he was still a spineless coward loser getting in good with our used to be enemies and crossing our used to be allies?

1/2 a day away from tv and Internet and I miss everything!

 

[-LEK-]

When his administration took out Bin Laden?

 

[stevo51]

Ok...
From Military.com no less..."It's become a staple for the Republican candidates to trash Obama and argue that he has failed to spend enough on defense. At the debates and campaign stops, they've cast him as a feckless commander in chief, standing idly by while the world's finest military withers away."

Republican presidential candidate Marco Rubio maintains that President Barack Obama is more interested in providing money to Planned Parenthood than for the nation's armed forces. The front-runner in the GOP race, Donald Trump, says the U.S. military is a "disaster." Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush says the Obama administration has "gutted" every weapons system in the U.S. military's inventory.

Ted Cruz..."America now faces a momentous decision. Almost a decade of irresponsible defense cuts has slashed the number of combat personnel, seriously degraded their combat readiness, and shrunk the size of our Army, Navy and Air Force below any reasonable standard..."

From Rubio's website...
Restoring Military Strength
Marco’s plans to strengthen the military will ensure that our service members will go into battle with the best training and equipment we can offer.

In the 90's Clinton balanced the budget and for a while a surplus was projected. How did this come to be you may ask?
There were two factors at work. One, the economy was good. Perhaps that was a result of clintons policies or Reagens tax cuts or combination of both. One absolute cause was the draconian cuts in the military. The Army went from 16 combat divisions to 10. The Navy was cut from 600 ships to about half that number. The Air Force lost a number of wings. Experienced people who are expensive to replace. The current plan is to make big reductions in personnel. Russia and China continue to be the long term security threats to this country.