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POLITICAL THREAD

How will they rule ??!

  • YES - Qualified

    Votes: 41 82.0%
  • NO - Disqualified

    Votes: 9 18.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
As much as I do not like it, if it takes giving in some on DACA to get tax reform, border security/The Wall, and possibly healthcare then so be it. Maybe DACA has always been the key to get the Grand Deal he has to make to get it all done.

At this point I just do not see any other way he gets his agenda through Congress in this current environment. Just too many different agendas on both sides of the aisle.
 
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I honestly don't care if they stay. But they absolutely cannot be given the right to vote, or receive government benefits like citizens.

Path to citizenship is an absolute nonstarter in my mind. We cannot punish all the people who obeyed the immigration laws of the United States and didn't invade.
Completely agree!
 
The wall is meaningless. It's symbolic. It always has been. It will have a negligible impact on illegal immigration.

Granting illegal aliens amnesty just shows them they can continue to invade the United States, and will be granted amnesty in the future once we hit another critical mass of illegal aliens who garner a little bit of sympathy.

They'll find a way around/over/under/through the wall.
 
As much as I do not like it, if it takes giving in some on DACA to get tax reform, border security/The Wall, and possibly healthcare then so be it. Maybe DACA has always been the key to get the Grand Deal he has to make to get it all done.

At this point I just do not see any other way he gets his agenda through Congress in this current environment. Just too many different agendas on both sides of the aisle.

I couldn't agree more.
 
I honestly don't care if they stay. But they absolutely cannot be given the right to vote, or receive government benefits like citizens.

Path to citizenship is an absolute nonstarter in my mind. We cannot punish all the people who obeyed the immigration laws of the United States and didn't invade.
Yeah, that's a good point. But, this is a special problem (albeit created by a 'special' man) that will likely require some back breaking to get fixed. Like I said, I'll be willing to get really forgiving if the base ends up with the cumulative long end of the stick in the end.
 
Trump has never wanted to kick Dreamers out. Many Republicans like Ryan, Graham, and others do not either. Its an "easier" deal to make only if it gets his other agenda items passed. However, we all know the Dems will want them to have full rights including voting. That is all they really care about.
 
Do you people not understand the Democrats?

All promises are empty.

It doesn't matter if we get bigly border security. The next Democrat administration will tell the DOJ to ignore it. It doesn't matter if we get tax reform. The next Democrat administration will require you to buy something from the federal government or face another fine.

You cannot grant amnesty, and the right to vote (which is where this is heading) to illegal aliens. The Democrats will quickly regain power and roll back any concessions they'd made to stop the invasion of illegals.
 
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Do you people not understand the Democrats?

All promises are empty.

It doesn't matter if we get bigly border security. The next Democrat administration will tell the DOJ to ignore it. It doesn't matter if we get tax reform. The next Democrat administration will require you to buy something from the federal government or face another fine.

You cannot grant amnesty, and the right to vote (which is where this is heading) to illegal aliens. The Democrats will quickly regain power and roll back any concessions they'd made to stop the invasion of illegals.
I'm not sure 800,000 will make or break the right with votes. I'm not even sure getting DACA resolved wouldn't go a long way to stealing some of their newfound Mexican voting base if his name/face is on the deal. I think there will be some compromise to get it done, but the guilt leverage gained (especially in the public eye) will be immeasurable. He'll dismantle the left cucks just like he's dismantled the right... by public neutering.

Furthermore, I'm not sure how they'll ever strike a deal that sees DACAs paying tax with no gov't representation in the form of a vote. Of course, at that point, you're breaking one law to break the other, so...
 
You cannot grant amnesty, and the right to vote (which is where this is heading) to illegal aliens. The Democrats will quickly regain power and roll back any concessions they'd made to stop the invasion of illegals.

Well you're right...if you put it like that.

BUT

You can't deport them all either.

So, wtf. Again, this is a product of years of lawlessness from our stupid ass govt. We just gotta do what we can. Idk. But you can't deport them, and you can't let them vote either tho...wtf. But they already vote now from what I vaguely understand.

But shit, Trump does this for DACA and he surely gets some votes. Mexicans ain't dumb, and they are not nearly as progressive as media wants you to believe. A lot cling to their guns and bibles like us hillbillies.
 
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Mnuchin (sp) wanted the govt to fly him around Europe on his honeymoon. If not fireable, that is damn close.

And I wish I had as much confidence in Trump's negotiation skills as some of here.
 
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I'm not sure how/why some folks think the man did a complete 180 overnight (outside of wishful thinking, of course). Have you not been paying attention the past 9 months?

Me right now reading Twitter...
 
Furthermore, I'm not sure how they'll ever strike a deal that sees DACAs paying tax with no gov't representation in the form of a vote. Of course, at that point, you're breaking one law to break the other, so...


There are shitloads of taxpayer in this country who don't have the right to vote in federal elections.

If they're mad they have to pay taxes and don't get to vote, they can leave.
 
I like that guy's optimism but I'm hesitant.

I'm 100 percent in agreement that we need all of those things and should eventually tackle birthright citizenship, which was BS footnote snuck in by a 5-4 decision thanks to Justice Brennan.

http://humanevents.com/2010/08/04/justice-brennans-footnote-gave-us-anchor-babies/

" Democrats act as if the right to run across the border when you’re 8 1/2 months pregnant, give birth in a U.S. hospital and then immediately start collecting welfare was exactly what our forebears had in mind, a sacred constitutional right, as old as the 14th Amendment itself.

The louder liberals talk about some ancient constitutional right, the surer you should be that it was invented in the last few decades.

In fact, this alleged right derives only from a footnote slyly slipped into a Supreme Court opinion by Justice Brennan in 1982. You might say it snuck in when no one was looking, and now we have to let it stay.


The 14th Amendment was added after the Civil War in order to overrule the Supreme Court’s Dred Scott decision, which had held that black slaves were not citizens of the United States. The precise purpose of the amendment was to stop sleazy Southern states from denying citizenship rights to newly freed slaves — many of whom had roots in this country longer than a lot of white people.

The amendment guaranteed that freed slaves would have all the privileges of citizenship by providing: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”

The drafters of the 14th amendment had no intention of conferring citizenship on the children of aliens who happened to be born in the U.S. (For my younger readers, back in those days, people cleaned their own houses and raised their own kids.)

Inasmuch as America was not the massive welfare state operating as a magnet for malingerers, frauds and cheats that it is today, it’s amazing the drafters even considered the amendment’s effect on the children of aliens.

But they did.

The very author of the citizenship clause, Sen. Jacob Howard of Michigan, expressly said: “This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers.”

In the 1884 case Elk v. Wilkins, the Supreme Court ruled that the 14th Amendment did not even confer citizenship on Indians — because they were subject to tribal jurisdiction, not U.S. jurisdiction.

For a hundred years, that was how it stood, with only one case adding the caveat that children born to LEGAL permanent residents of the U.S., gainfully employed, and who were not employed by a foreign government would also be deemed citizens under the 14th Amendment. (United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 1898.)

And then, out of the blue in 1982, Justice Brennan slipped a footnote into his 5-4 opinion in Plyler v. Doe, asserting that “no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment ‘jurisdiction’ can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful.” (Other than the part about one being lawful and the other not.)

Brennan’s authority for this lunatic statement was that it appeared in a 1912 book written by Clement L. Bouve. (Yes, THE Clement L. Bouve — the one you’ve heard so much about over the years.) Bouve was not a senator, not an elected official, certainly not a judge — just some guy who wrote a book.

So on one hand we have the history, the objective, the author’s intent and 100 years of history of the 14th Amendment, which says that the 14th Amendment does not confer citizenship on children born to illegal immigrants.

On the other hand, we have a random outburst by some guy named Clement — who, I’m guessing, was too cheap to hire an American housekeeper.

Any half-wit, including Clement L. Bouve, could conjure up a raft of such “plausible distinction(s)” before breakfast. Among them: Legal immigrants have been checked for subversive ties, contagious diseases, and have some qualification to be here other than “lives within walking distance.”

But most important, Americans have a right to decide, as the people of other countries do, who becomes a citizen.

Combine Justice Brennan’s footnote with America’s ludicrously generous welfare policies, and you end up with a bankrupt country.

Consider the story of one family of illegal immigrants described in the Spring 2005 Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons:

“Cristobal Silverio came illegally from Oxtotilan, Mexico, in 1997 and brought his wife Felipa, plus three children aged 19, 12 and 8. Felipa … gave birth to a new daughter, her anchor baby, named Flor. Flor was premature, spent three months in the neonatal incubator, and cost San Joaquin Hospital more than $300,000. Meanwhile, (Felipa’s 19-year-old daughter) Lourdes plus her illegal alien husband produced their own anchor baby, Esmeralda. Grandma Felipa created a second anchor baby, Cristian. … The two Silverio anchor babies generate $1,000 per month in public welfare funding. Flor gets $600 per month for asthma. Healthy Cristian gets $400. Cristobal and Felipa last year earned $18,000 picking fruit. Flor and Cristian were paid $12,000 for being anchor babies.”

In the Silverios’ munificent new hometown of Stockton, Calif., 70 percent of the 2,300 babies born in 2003 in the San Joaquin General Hospital were anchor babies. As of this month, Stockton is $23 million in the hole.

It’s bad enough to be governed by 5-4 decisions written by liberal judicial activists. In the case of “anchor babies,” America is being governed by Brennan’s 1982 footnote." -Ann Coulter
 
And I wish I had as much confidence in Trump's negotiation skills as some of here.
I'll throw out two reasons as to why I'm confident, also have some time to kill.

1. A huge reason he was an ultra successful businessman is because he was a master at making deals. Hell, he wrote a whole book on it.

Now, political deals are obviously a different kind of animal than business deals are (though some of them can be political at times too) but Trump is not going to let the dems completely hood wink him. He will demand something in return, for whatever he has to give away. Apparently he killed the DACA deal because Schumer and Pelosi didn't agree to tougher border security, which is hardly surprising anyway.

2. Hes not Hillary Clinton. And I thank God every day that hes not.
 
This is complete betrayal. Once you factor in chain migration, he's legalizing millions. And now it will never end, it's just going to encourage more 'dreamers' to invade.

These 'dreamers' just became law through an illegal action of Obama's last year. You don't have to physically deport them, let them self deport.

Think of those Angel moms he campaigned with, this is an abomination and I hope they impeach him.
 
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This is complete betrayal. Once you factor in chain migration, he's legalizing millions. And now it will never end, it's just going to encourage more 'dreamers' to invade.

These 'dreamers' just became law through an illegal action of Obama's last year. You don't have to physically deport them, let them self deport.

Think of those Angel moms he campaigned with, this is an abomination and I hope they impeach him.
Think I would walk back from the cliff and see what happens before freaking out.
 
Think I would walk back from the cliff and see what happens before freaking out.


No need. Read his Twitter account, he's using same argument against his base that the left uses against them. Basically saying you're heartless if you don't allow them to stay.

Immigration is what won him the election, it's literally the only reason I voted for him. If I knew he was going to do this I would've supported Rand Paul.
 
I hope he has some master plan because he's done if he caves on this. His base will abandon him and Dems know it.

2020 will be what we tried to avoid in 2016. It's incredible that within 24 hours, there's a huge reason to start losing hope. Democrats are pure evil. Republicans are corrupt. If we can't put a major dent for decades worth of illegal immigration then we are done as a country. The next Democrat will change every EO Trump has done, create more regulation, disperse more illegal scum to red states and obliterate this nation.

This country is the last stand for western civilization. No one else is going to do anything about it. Do we really want to experience what the left has in store for us? Massive Muslim and Mexican migration? Continued hostility toward whites promoted by media and Democrats? Destroying the economy as the government grows larger?

People laugh about the NWO being some conspiracy theory. Um. that's not a conspiracy theory. That's a goal..
 
Think I would walk back from the cliff and see what happens before freaking out.
Counterpoint, if you are building "productive" relationships with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer to the point they put out a press release on a supposed agreement from a dinner you are 99% likely to be deluded.
 
Counterpoint, if you are building "productive" relationships with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer to the point they put out a press release on a supposed agreement from a dinner you are 99% likely to be deluded.

How the hell could Trump work with Democrats especially Schumer and Pelosi after what they have said about him? Those are two of the most vile people in politics.
 
We dont' even know what was worked out..

If Trump agreed on Daca and got anything in return then he's LOL at those stupid dems because he was conceding that Daca stuff anyway, said so from the beginning. He has no real option there.

In reality, I don't believe this means squat other than it makes Trump look good because he reached across the aisle to accomplish something, and that can lead to more Trump votes. This is something Obama never ever ever did, and he looked stupid for 8 years because his two main talking points were "trasnparency" and "bi-partisanship"....which he failed horribly at. Trump has been a) transparent af and b) he apparently just reached across the aisle for bipartisan immigration stuff.

Now, you can be pissed for trump believing DACA kids stay. I understand that. But there is not logical or realistic way to deport these people.

I'm still pissed Trump dropped the Hillary stuff. He's a soft pussy who hasn't done anything he campaigned on so far. Lots of time, but I believe he's been disappointing to those types of "anti-govt" "anarchy" type of folks who came up to vote for him because they thought he was gonna buck the system and get ish right...like he can do that anyway. It will take decades upon decades to attempt to fix the system.

- so if you're mad at trump for not deporting illegals and not burning Hillary at the stake, you're just irrational and nonsensical. And I am absolutely am. I want people to burn, tbh. I understand that can't happen, and I don't like that...

Same with "the wall". We ain't literally getting a wall, folks. We have some walls. This was a metaphor for enforcing immigration laws and putting an end to our open border policy which is the dumbest thing I think I've ever heard of. And man did the USA eat that crap up. YAYYY OPEN MEXICO BORDER BECAUSE THOSE POOR PEOPLE NEED BETTER LIVES!!! And R's and D's both loved that shit. Unreal. I can't comprehend how all that started.

/crazy rant stuff

.
Counter-counterpoint: Dems LOL. We could have elected a rabid dog as president and this country would have been better off than the path the democrats wanted to lead us down...

....and they still probably will because after Trump, we must elect another Trump, then another, then another to even attempt to turn back the shit that losers like Clinton's and Bush's enacted.
 
We dont' even know what was worked out..

If Trump agreed on Daca and got anything in return then he's LOL at those stupid dems because he was conceding that Daca stuff anyway, said so from the beginning. He has no real option there.

In reality, I don't believe this means squat other than it makes Trump look good because he reached across the aisle to accomplish something, and that can lead to more Trump votes. This is something Obama never ever ever did, and he looked stupid for 8 years because his two main talking points were "trasnparency" and "bi-partisanship"....which he failed horribly at. Trump has been a) transparent af and b) he apparently just reached across the aisle for bipartisan immigration stuff.

Now, you can be pissed for trump believing DACA kids stay. I understand that. But there is not logical or realistic way to deport these people.

I'm still pissed Trump dropped the Hillary stuff. He's a soft pussy who hasn't done anything he campaigned on so far. Lots of time, but I believe he's been disappointing to those types of "anti-govt" "anarchy" type of folks who came up to vote for him because they thought he was gonna buck the system and get ish right...like he can do that anyway. It will take decades upon decades to attempt to fix the system.

- so if you're mad at trump for not deporting illegals and not burning Hillary at the stake, you're just irrational and nonsensical. And I am absolutely am. I want people to burn, tbh. I understand that can't happen, and I don't like that...

Same with "the wall". We ain't literally getting a wall, folks. We have some walls. This was a metaphor for enforcing immigration laws and putting an end to our open border policy which is the dumbest thing I think I've ever heard of. And man did the USA eat that crap up. YAYYY OPEN MEXICO BORDER BECAUSE THOSE POOR PEOPLE NEED BETTER LIVES!!! And R's and D's both loved that shit. Unreal. I can't comprehend how all that started.

/crazy rant stuff

.
Counter-counterpoint: Dems LOL. We could have elected a rabid dog as president and this country would have been better off than the path the democrats wanted to lead us down...

....and they still probably will because after Trump, we must elect another Trump, then another, then another to even attempt to turn back the shit that losers like Clinton's and Bush's enacted.
Rack! Anyone who thought Trump was going to come to Washington and completely change it was living in fantasy world. Just too much corruption to fix in 4-8 years. Frankly, there is no chance in hell Washington ever cleans its act up.

I supported Trump because he was the only option we had that had any balls to challenge the establishment. So far, he has at least caused a stir and has done some great things like Gorsuch.

The Clinton's have too much dirt on folks. They are untouchable. That is why they did what they did because they knew they would get away with it. We can hate it all we want, but it is what it is. What do we do? Go and start killing all of them?? Point being Americans over a long period of time have allowed these criminals to completely take over our government.

As for Trump, every single day whatever he does he is infinitely a better option than the alternative. Hillary would have put the final nail in the coffin. Trump at least buys us enough time to possibly keep the coffin open awhile longer.
 
Rack! Anyone who thought Trump was going to come to Washington and completely change it was living in fantasy world. Just too much corruption to fix in 4-8 years. Frankly, there is no chance in hell Washington ever cleans its act up.

I supported Trump because he was the only option we had that had any balls to challenge the establishment. So far, he has at least caused a stir and has done some great things like Gorsuch.

The Clinton's have too much dirt on folks. They are untouchable. That is why they did what they did because they knew they would get away with it. We can hate it all we want, but it is what it is. What do we do? Go and start killing all of them?? Point being Americans over a long period of time have allowed these criminals to completely take over our government.

As for Trump, every single day whatever he does he is infinitely a better option than the alternative. Hillary would have put the final nail in the coffin. Trump at least buys us enough time to possibly keep the coffin open awhile longer.

Trump gave THE USA hope and change, tbh.
 
I would 100% support a path to citizenship for anyone that came because of daca ALREADY in exchange for an end to daca, tax reform and the wall.

That's literally all trump has to do to get reelected. Problem is, the swamp knows it.
Can you define "tax reform"?

I ask because I see this going down the same rat hole as "repeal and replace". Trump has made statements all over the map with regards to both.
 
Business tax goal 15%, middle class cuts to about the same as businesses or lower (according to trump) and the highest earnings remaining at same rate or even a bit higher is the current discussion.
 
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Trump just said no wall no DACA deal. Hopefully the freak out will stop now.

Reminds me of how some freaked out over Syria and him "considering" Romney for SOS. As Aaron Rodgers once said, R-E-L-A-X.
 
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As long as I pay less in taxes, I don't give a shit how he does it. Will be a nice benefit if all other hard working Americans also send less of their hard earned paychecks to Washington.
They have said that the goal is to be revenue neutral meaning if you pay less, somebody is paying more...
 
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