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POLITICAL THREAD

How will they rule ??!

  • YES - Qualified

    Votes: 41 82.0%
  • NO - Disqualified

    Votes: 9 18.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
uh-huh. I also get that he thinks Chomsky's mind is gold, yet Chomsky is just another academia based, socialistic fantasizer in my book, well thought out to be sure, but full of ideas more prone to failure than all of the practical applications that have also failed in Western attempts. Here's a nice snip from his Wiki:

In his 1973 book For Reasons of State, Chomsky argues that instead of a capitalist system in which people are "wage slaves" or an authoritarian system in which decisions are made by a centralized committee, a society could function with no paid labor. He argues that a nation's populace should be free to pursue jobs of their choosing. People will be free to do as they like, and the work they voluntarily choose will be both "rewarding in itself" and "socially useful." Society would be run under a system of peaceful anarchism, with no state or other authoritarian institutions. Work that was fundamentally distasteful to all, if any existed, would be distributed equally among everyone.

Utopia dreaming. He calls me a "wage slave" because I have an employer that pays me a six figure salary. I'm sure Mr. Chomsky vomited each time one of his fat checks was deposited by his employer, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, making himself a wage slave. Surely he would have much preferred a world in which he could have just run out and done something different, more useful, at his random choosing, for however he felt that day, for no pay. Maybe he would have showed up somewhere and said, "I want to be a renowned professor today!" Maybe there would have been students there. Maybe not. Maybe instead of being students they would have chosen to be professional looters that day, or choir boys. Undoubtedly one of the most insane, unsupportable visions I've ever heard about.
It mirrors Marxism in some ways. The vision Marx had for how society would function is similar. He felt technology would get to the point where people didn't have to work much and we could pursue whatever paths gave us the highest amount of satisfaction. There are a lot of parallels. All Socialism and Marxism is rooted in some Utopian dream that just doesn't fit with human nature. What's funny when you read many of these types of writings is that they contradict themselves. For example, he says there is no state or authoritarian institutions, and yet distasteful jobs will be distributed equally among everyone. Well what entity will do the distributing if there is no state or authoritarian institutions? It's pure fantasy.
 
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I actually blame Jem & the Holograms cartoon from the 1980s. Socialist bitches.

Anyone ever notice that Jem & Hologram's songs were socialist and all about sharing and giving away, while their counter rivals, the Misfits, had songs about self made profits and capitalism. Yet, Jem & the Holograms were perceived as the "good girls and ideal image for young Americans" Hmmmm?
 
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Glad to see Trump is currently not making a fool of me when I said months ago him running would shake the 16 election up big time. I agree with a lot of what he is saying, but having a hard time getting past Trump himself. He still feels like a Liberal trying to act like a Conservative.

I still have no clue who I am voting for, but at least for now its nice to have someone like Trump who is not afraid to say the real truths of the issues this country is facing. Everytime I listen to Bush, etc I just see more of the same with what we have had and what has drug this country down to its current state of affairs. We need real leadership now more than ever. If I had to choose between Obama, Clinton, Bush, and Trump I am taking Trump all day long. He cannot be any worse than what we have endured the last 7 years along with Bush and Chaney.

Rack x1000

I'm not pro-Trump yet but I'm anti-almost everything else. Tired of people scared to piss people off and pussyfooting a message. Time for PC to get real!
 
I guess I need to hand in my conservative card, the immigration thing just doesn't bother me. That this country is a melting pot, that this is the one place where you can dream big and rise above your limitations, all that - it's essential America. The idea of rounding people up and sending them to some other country seems so impractical as to not be a serious thought.

On the other hand, we're a nation of laws, there should be some consequences for entering the country illegally.

It's just not something that troubles me, and if you take away the constituencies and politics, wouldn't look that hard to solve.....

The "immigration thing" should bother you. Because it's an illegal alien thing, not immigration.

How many anchor babies/future government dependents/future Democrat voters are born in this country every day?

Yes, the R donors want the cheap labor. But the Ds, as always, are playing the long con. The longer Obama can get away with shitting all over the laws of this country and waiving a big welcome sign to everyone in Central and South America, the more anchor babies can be born in this country.

Exactly. If people want to legally immigrate here - wonderful. But illegal immigration is a huge financial drag on our country as well as a safety risk.
 
You cant get them all. But the ones you locate, deport them. Then kick in the other aspects of fining employers heavily and removing the automatic citizenship of their children if the parents are in the country illegally; and you remove all motivation from being here.

Its really not that difficult. Of course this would be devastating for the lefts plan to grant amnesty, ensure themselves huge political gains despite bankrupting the country. Which is the real reason people on the left are infuriated about this idea.
I think that would be a reasonable starting point. Theres no way to just ID them all immediately. Remove jobs and automatic citizenship for the kids would do all the heavy lifting for us. No need for walls. No need for roundups.



Yes. Itll never happen. But theres no telling what lies and manipulations this shadowy agency is behind over the course of history.
Removing their citizenship...which couldn't be done retroactively would require a change to the 14th amendment.
The only people with something to lose are those who employ illegals. Come down hard on those people and you will solve 90% of the problem. If illegals can't find work, they won't come.
On the down side...expect the cost of home construction and lawn care, landscaping services to skyrocket. You will also see adverse affects in low income rental property, as well as with many other businesses that relied knowingly or not knowingly on that population. There's no way around it, take 10 million people out of the economy and there's going to be a major shock to the economy.

BTW, also expect a major rise in the counterfeiting of documents required to achieve legal status. We're talking about a multi-billion$$ impact and there will be plenty of people willing to take their chances to get a piece of that pie. You'll also have humanitarian mission based groups who will be willing to put their necks on the line. How many Catholic nuns and priests are we going to be willing to throw in prison over this issue before public opinion changes?
Regardless of intentions or reality, building a wall would portray the U.S. as no better than the Soviets when they built the Berlin Wall. It would be viewed by the world in the same light.
 
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Marx was so wrong about so many things I cant believe people even pay attention to his work.

For example, Marx believed that value (price of a good) is based on labor.

That's complete BS; if no one wants a good, no matter the labor, the value is worthless.

Demand is what drives value.

Marxism is a joke.
 
Rack x1000

I'm not pro-Trump yet but I'm anti-almost everything else. Tired of people scared to piss people off and pussyfooting a message. Time for PC to get real!

I'm afraid with Trump it would be 'my way or the highway'. Or he could get bored/frustrated with the job and quit after 2 years. I do like the anti-PC talk however.
 
Removing their citizenship...which couldn't be done retroactively would require a change to the 14th amendment.
The only people with something to lose are those who employ illegals. Come down hard on those people and you will solve 90% of the problem. If illegals can't find work, they won't come.
On the down side...expect the cost of home construction and lawn care, landscaping services to skyrocket. You will also see adverse affects in low income rental property, as well as with many other businesses that relied knowingly or not knowingly on that population. There's no way around it, take 10 million people out of the economy and there's going to be a major shock to the economy.

BTW, also expect a major rise in the counterfeiting of documents required to achieve legal status. We're talking about a multi-billion$$ impact and there will be plenty of people willing to take their chances to get a piece of that pie. You'll also have humanitarian mission based groups who will be willing to put their necks on the line. How many Catholic nuns and priests are we going to be willing to throw in prison over this issue before public opinion changes?
Regardless of intentions or reality, building a wall would portray the U.S. as no better than the Soviets when they built the Berlin Wall. It would be viewed by the world in the same light.

I think it would be a solid legal argument to be made that the citizenship should not be conferred on children of parents here illegally. That was never the intent of the rule. And it rewards people for illegal behavior. Would it be a difficult case? Probably. But its definitely winnable.

Costs may rise because people would no longer be able to employ illegals? Maybe. But it wouldnt likely be significant except in a handful of service jobs.

Im not sure why you think priests and nuns will be going to jail. Will need to explain that position a bit further.

False. Thats an apples to oranges comparison. Plus its not surprising an Obama voter is worried about the worlds opinion of us. I remember when Obama supporters were so happy we had a president the world would love.

Anyway, take away the jobs and you take away most of the motivation for coming here. Take away the citizenship, and it removes the rest. No wall needed.
 
Marx was so wrong about so many things I cant believe people even pay attention to his work.

For example, Marx believed that value (price of a good) is based on labor.

That's complete BS; if no one wants a good, no matter the labor, the value is worthless.

Demand is what drives value.

Marxism is a joke.
I agree.
 
I guess I need to hand in my conservative card, the immigration thing just doesn't bother me. That this country is a melting pot, that this is the one place where you can dream big and rise above your limitations, all that - it's essential America. The idea of rounding people up and sending them to some other country seems so impractical as to not be a serious thought.

On the other hand, we're a nation of laws, there should be some consequences for entering the country illegally.

It's just not something that troubles me, and if you take away the constituencies and politics, wouldn't look that hard to solve.....
It troubles me because of all the resources illegal aliens get with my tax money. It bothers me because legal residents can't get the jobs that illegal aliens can get.

I have a friend of mine that runs a large yard service in Cleveland. He told me that he has lots of illegal aliens (Mexicans) because they are such hard workers, cheap labor, and he doesn't have to pay any taxes for them. I ask him if he had to choose between an illegal alien and an American citizen who would he hire. He replied without hesitation that he would take the illegal alien.
 
I think it would be a solid legal argument to be made that the citizenship should not be conferred on children of parents here illegally. That was never the intent of the rule. And it rewards people for illegal behavior. Would it be a difficult case? Probably. But its definitely winnable.

Costs may rise because people would no longer be able to employ illegals? Maybe. But it wouldnt likely be significant except in a handful of service jobs.

Im not sure why you think priests and nuns will be going to jail. Will need to explain that position a bit further.

False. Thats an apples to oranges comparison. Plus its not surprising an Obama voter is worried about the worlds opinion of us. I remember when Obama supporters were so happy we had a president the world would love.

Anyway, take away the jobs and you take away most of the motivation for coming here. Take away the citizenship, and it removes the rest. No wall needed.
The construction sector, especially the home construction sector is largely supported with illegal workers. Without those workers the capacity of the construction industry (supply) to meet the demand results in companies being able to demand higher prices for their services, same for lawn care and landscape services.
Mexico and all of Central and South America are about 90% Catholic. Many Catholic Churches are involved in finding housing and other basic needs for many of the illegals already here. You can bet they would stay involved in the issue.
Not sure what Obama has to do with a wall since he will never have anything to do with building one.

I agree that taking the jobs away would solve most of the problem. That said, doing so would require that many GOP supporters be punished and it is yet to be seen if the GOP has the cajones to eat some of their own.
 
The construction sector, especially the home construction sector is largely supported with illegal workers. Without those workers the capacity of the construction industry (supply) to meet the demand results in companies being able to demand higher prices for their services, same for lawn care and landscape services.
Mexico and all of Central and South America are about 90% Catholic. Many Catholic Churches are involved in finding housing and other basic needs for many of the illegals already here. You can bet they would stay involved in the issue.
Not sure what Obama has to do with a wall since he will never have anything to do with building one.

I agree that taking the jobs away would solve most of the problem. That said, doing so would require that many GOP supporters be punished and it is yet to be seen if the GOP has the cajones to eat some of their own.

Its easy to support illegals right now because theres no repercussions for doing so. I cant imagine priests continuing if the laws were enforced. But if they do, they do; and theyll get punished.

No doubt the GOP puppets are sweating bullets. Thats why Trump is the only one who can tackle this important issue head on. Its also the reason he'll never get support from the GOP, and never be elected.
 
Glad to see Trump is currently not making a fool of me when I said months ago him running would shake the 16 election up big time. I agree with a lot of what he is saying, but having a hard time getting passed Trump himself. He still feels like a Liberal trying to act like a Conservative.

I still have no clue who I am voting for, but at least for now its nice to have someone like Trump who is not afraid to say the real truths of the issues this country is facing. Everytime I listen to Bush, etc I just see more of the same with what we have had and what has drug this country down to its current state of affairs. We need real leadership now more than ever. If I had to choose between Obama, Clinton, Bush, and Trump I am taking Trump all day long. He cannot be any worse than what we have endured the last 7 years along with Bush and Chaney.
When I brought up the possibility of a Trump candidacy months ago you and I were the only ones who took it seriously, while a lot of people made jokes. I personally know a lot of people who are behind Trump in Texas. I may vote for him in the primary, in fact I think he will get a lot of crossover support. The Super Tuesday states on March 5th are right in Trumps wheelhouse, and if he can somehow stay in contention until then things could get very interesting. But the GOP establishment will be hard to stop if/when they decide enough is enough.
 
The construction sector, especially the home construction sector is largely supported with illegal workers. Without those workers the capacity of the construction industry (supply) to meet the demand results in companies being able to demand higher prices for their services, same for lawn care and landscape services.
Mexico and all of Central and South America are about 90% Catholic. Many Catholic Churches are involved in finding housing and other basic needs for many of the illegals already here. You can bet they would stay involved in the issue.
Not sure what Obama has to do with a wall since he will never have anything to do with building one.

I agree that taking the jobs away would solve most of the problem. That said, doing so would require that many GOP supporters be punished and it is yet to be seen if the GOP has the cajones to eat some of their own.

That's why we need a more robust guest worker program to go along with an e-verify system. That way we can get these people into the system, they would pay their fair share of taxes, and the agricultural and construction industry could keep their cheap, productive labor.
 
I think it would be a solid legal argument to be made that the citizenship should not be conferred on children of parents here illegally.

It's not a great case, which is why many Rs are talking constitutional amendment. "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside." So you hang your hat on what "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" means. Best case law against is maybe the Slaughter-House cases, but that was about children of diplomats of foreign countries. Elk v. Wilkens was about Native Americans, which was overturned by statute and not applicable b/c they were subject to their tribes, which had things like the power to enter into treaties, etc... that don't apply here. There is no SCOTUS case on whether it applies to children of illegal immigrants, but whenever you get into drafters' intent, it's messy. Upholding birthright citizenship would be Kagan, Breyer, Ginsberg, Sotomayor, likely Kennedy (I'd put him at ~85% based on his Boumediene stuff), likely Roberts (~65%?). Opposing you might get Scalia (his discussions on founders' intent are... selectively chosen, I'd say), Thomas (likely), Alito (no idea). It would be interesting, but I don't think most conservatives are keen to push it (also have to repeal a statute, but that's easier).

The problem with intent is that it's extremely messy. Do you credit statements from the main proponent (but he's just 1 vote)? Committee notes? The amendment process (w/out getting into detail, it's very easy, and somewhat common, for adopted laws to include things that no one really wants). How do you weight competing interpretations? Signing statements? Statements to newspapers count the same as statements on the floor? Most blowhard/talkative Senator count for more? That's why textualists have discarded intent in favor of, well, textualism for statutes (Scalia was the big proponent of this before he was on the Supreme Court, let alone now). That they tend to be the most vocal intent proponents for anything Constitutional is interesting, to say the least.
 
That's why we need a more robust guest worker program to go along with an e-verify system. That way we can get these people into the system, they would pay their fair share of taxes, and the agricultural and construction industry could keep their cheap, productive labor.
Against who's data are you going to e-verify them against? You think Mexico (or insert Central American country here...) is going to have reliable electronic data on their citizens?
Databases are only as good as the data...and currently most of the data is crap and disconnected. The idea is ok...it's just that there's no reliable database...which is why felons with long records are released, people are allowed/not allowed on flights because their name mistakenly appears/doesn't appear on do not fly lists... My son received 4 speeding tickets inside a year and every time he went to court they "allowed" him to do a 4 hour driving school because their records showed no prior tickets in the last 5 years.
Cities and counties are decades behind technology wise not to mention the states and feds. The task of giving and maintaining unique identifiers for 100's of millions, billion's of people is daunting at the minimum. Until you can have a bio-metric identifier like finger prints, retina scans, etc, you will have a system chalked full of errors and fraud. Again, it's a task that at a small level can work when you have pretty much control of all of the points of data entry and the scope of the data is manageable. When you expand beyond that, the process falls apart.
To illustrate my point, the Social Security Administration today has 6.5 million people on the rolls that are over 112 years old. Estimates say that there are fewer than 35 people world wide in that category. There is also a sizable population that is alive but that appear on the death master file which results in their bank accounts being frozen among other things...
 
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Its easy to support illegals right now because theres no repercussions for doing so. I cant imagine priests continuing if the laws were enforced. But if they do, they do; and theyll get punished.

No doubt the GOP puppets are sweating bullets. Thats why Trump is the only one who can tackle this important issue head on. Its also the reason he'll never get support from the GOP, and never be elected.
Clergy have a long history of taking the humanitarian path regardless of legality...

I find the idea that Trump's wealth somehow makes him immune to "being bought" somewhat funny. I've yet to meet a wealthy man who thought he was wealthy enough. As Bruce Springsteen wrote..."Poor man wanna be rich. Rich man wanna be king. And a king ain't satisfied 'Til he rules everything"... After all, Warren Buffet could buy and sell Trump several times over and he's still out there chasing the next dollar.
Also, even if elected Trump would require support to get things done. Nothing gets through the House and/or Senate without back-scratching. Trump won't be able to tell congressmen, senators and Supreme Court justices..."you're fired!'.
 
I'm not sure where you get from that video that he thinks Marx was wrong about a lot of things. He said you throw out his mistakes and learn from the rest. He said there was a lot of interesting things to be learned about capitalism from his writings. I'm not sure where you are hearing him say Marx was wrong about most of what he theorized. The vision of society he laid out has a lot of similarities to how Marx thought capitalism would evolve.
 
Wall will not stop people from coming on...but taking away the automatic citizenship for people born here by illegal immigrants could put a big dent in that. And that's something I believe could actually muster a constitutional amendment change.

Gonna be hard to get businesses on board giving up their cheap labor. They'll fight that to the death.

Something needs to be done but talking about deporting 15-20 million people is not even remotely possible. Better shot at seeing light speed travel in my lifetime. The fact that he even says this shows just how FOS he is and that he'll say pretty much anything. He knows it's impossible but it doesn't stop the idiots from eating it up.

Trump is Nixon-esque in his paranoia. And a Trump presidency probably ends the same way or worse. He may nuke a country over a bad tweet.
 
So, having the federal government take over the health insurance system of a country with over 300 million people is viewed as not only possible, but a good thing by the left. The federal government is that competent.

The federal government is competent enough to run a sweeping surveillance program that FTS thinks is great. Because they're going to catch terrorists like the Boston Marathon bomber.



But getting 20 million people who are illegally squatting out of the country is impossible so we shouldn't even try it. Something the Feral government has sued to prevent the states from doing because it says it's the Federal Government's responsibility.

Got it.

And this coming from the guys who idolize the progressive FDR who rounded up the Japanese to house in prison camps. And he did that without the cell phone and internet data on each of them.
 
Wow! Talk about totally Un-PC to the max: Washington Post: "‘Muslim-free’ gun shop teams with George Zimmerman to sell Confederate flag prints".

eek.gif
 
Wall will not stop people from coming on...but taking away the automatic citizenship for people born here by illegal immigrants could put a big dent in that. And that's something I believe could actually muster a constitutional amendment change.

Gonna be hard to get businesses on board giving up their cheap labor. They'll fight that to the death.

Something needs to be done but talking about deporting 15-20 million people is not even remotely possible. Better shot at seeing light speed travel in my lifetime. The fact that he even says this shows just how FOS he is and that he'll say pretty much anything. He knows it's impossible but it doesn't stop the idiots from eating it up.

Trump is Nixon-esque in his paranoia. And a Trump presidency probably ends the same way or worse. He may nuke a country over a bad tweet.
Once again, we did not import the illegals. Take away the jobs and they won't have much choice but to deport themselves. Good for Trump to bring up a subject that not one other of others running for POUS will even touch.
 
I'm not sure where you get from that video that he thinks Marx was wrong about a lot of things. He said you throw out his mistakes and learn from the rest. He said there was a lot of interesting things to be learned about capitalism from his writings. I'm not sure where you are hearing him say Marx was wrong about most of what he theorized. The vision of society he laid out has a lot of similarities to how Marx thought capitalism would evolve.
Whatever man. You hear what you want to hear. Go read some business insider or something.
 
The idea of closing the border is pretty interesting to me. Years ago I watched Penn & Teller's Bullshit and one episode they had a group of 6 illegal immigrants build a section of wall similar to what was being proposed to be built on the border. It took the immigrants 8 hours to built this section and when it was finished the 6 guys were broken up into groups of 2 and asked to try to get on the other side of the wall. One group was asked to go over, one under, and one through. It took no more than 3 minutes to go through the wall, and they pretty much destroyed a section of the wall in doing so.

While this might not be the perfect experiment it did strike me as interesting because it was a reminder of all that we would have to do in order to maintain a border even with a wall. So, we'd not only have a huge upfront cost, but also a huge running cost to patrol that border as well as repair and maintain whatever structures we build.

That's also just stopping the immigrants coming overland. Many of them make their way into the country through the use of underground tunnels.

I am not saying that we shouldn't do anything about the issue, but just pointing out how much of a monumental task it will be.
 
Once again, we did not import the illegals. Take away the jobs and they won't have much choice but to deport themselves. Good for Trump to bring up a subject that not one other of others running for POUS will even touch.

Trump will continue to lead in the polls until he makes himself un-electable.

He is expressing the anger and disgust that many of us feel, primarily due to the lack of leadership over the last 7 years.

He can do things that the other pols cant, because he doesn't need anybody's money.

If he articulates his positions well he will be tough to beat because he will draw moderate Dems.
 
uh-huh. I also get that he thinks Chomsky's mind is gold, yet Chomsky is just another academia based, socialistic fantasizer in my book, well thought out to be sure, but full of ideas more prone to failure than all of the practical applications that have also failed in Western attempts. Here's a nice snip from his Wiki:

In his 1973 book For Reasons of State, Chomsky argues that instead of a capitalist system in which people are "wage slaves" or an authoritarian system in which decisions are made by a centralized committee, a society could function with no paid labor. He argues that a nation's populace should be free to pursue jobs of their choosing. People will be free to do as they like, and the work they voluntarily choose will be both "rewarding in itself" and "socially useful." Society would be run under a system of peaceful anarchism, with no state or other authoritarian institutions. Work that was fundamentally distasteful to all, if any existed, would be distributed equally among everyone.

Utopia dreaming. He calls me a "wage slave" because I have an employer that pays me a six figure salary. I'm sure Mr. Chomsky vomited each time one of his fat checks was deposited by his employer, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, making himself a wage slave. Surely he would have much preferred a world in which he could have just run out and done something different, more useful, at his random choosing, for however he felt that day, for no pay. Maybe he would have showed up somewhere and said, "I want to be a renowned professor today!" Maybe there would have been students there. Maybe not. Maybe instead of being students they would have chosen to be professional looters that day, or choir boys. Undoubtedly one of the most insane, unsupportable visions I've ever heard about.

Man, you wrote all that just to insert a humble brag haha.
 
That's also just stopping the immigrants coming overland. Many of them make their way into the country through the use of underground tunnels.

I am not saying that we shouldn't do anything about the issue, but just pointing out how much of a monumental task it will be.
Or not spend a dime on any of that nonsense and do as I advocated....make it potentially expensive as hell to those who employ and house illegals. no jobs, no place to live, why go north to the land of the gringos?
 
It's not a great case, which is why many Rs are talking constitutional amendment. "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside." So you hang your hat on what "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" means. Best case law against is maybe the Slaughter-House cases, but that was about children of diplomats of foreign countries. Elk v. Wilkens was about Native Americans, which was overturned by statute and not applicable b/c they were subject to their tribes, which had things like the power to enter into treaties, etc... that don't apply here. There is no SCOTUS case on whether it applies to children of illegal immigrants, but whenever you get into drafters' intent, it's messy. Upholding birthright citizenship would be Kagan, Breyer, Ginsberg, Sotomayor, likely Kennedy (I'd put him at ~85% based on his Boumediene stuff), likely Roberts (~65%?). Opposing you might get Scalia (his discussions on founders' intent are... selectively chosen, I'd say), Thomas (likely), Alito (no idea). It would be interesting, but I don't think most conservatives are keen to push it (also have to repeal a statute, but that's easier).

The problem with intent is that it's extremely messy. Do you credit statements from the main proponent (but he's just 1 vote)? Committee notes? The amendment process (w/out getting into detail, it's very easy, and somewhat common, for adopted laws to include things that no one really wants). How do you weight competing interpretations? Signing statements? Statements to newspapers count the same as statements on the floor? Most blowhard/talkative Senator count for more? That's why textualists have discarded intent in favor of, well, textualism for statutes (Scalia was the big proponent of this before he was on the Supreme Court, let alone now). That they tend to be the most vocal intent proponents for anything Constitutional is interesting, to say the least.

Alot of excellent points about why its probably not a winning argument.

Clergy have a long history of taking the humanitarian path regardless of legality...

I find the idea that Trump's wealth somehow makes him immune to "being bought" somewhat funny. I've yet to meet a wealthy man who thought he was wealthy enough. As Bruce Springsteen wrote..."Poor man wanna be rich. Rich man wanna be king. And a king ain't satisfied 'Til he rules everything"... After all, Warren Buffet could buy and sell Trump several times over and he's still out there chasing the next dollar.
Also, even if elected Trump would require support to get things done. Nothing gets through the House and/or Senate without back-scratching. Trump won't be able to tell congressmen, senators and Supreme Court justices..."you're fired!'.

Noone said he cant be bought. Everyone has a price.

Its the fact he isnt a career politician that allows him to say things others wont. If others say it, their career is over and they have to get a job in the real world. If he loses, its back to making millions in the private sector.

The idea of closing the border is pretty interesting to me. Years ago I watched Penn & Teller's Bullshit and one episode they had a group of 6 illegal immigrants build a section of wall similar to what was being proposed to be built on the border. It took the immigrants 8 hours to built this section and when it was finished the 6 guys were broken up into groups of 2 and asked to try to get on the other side of the wall. One group was asked to go over, one under, and one through. It took no more than 3 minutes to go through the wall, and they pretty much destroyed a section of the wall in doing so.

While this might not be the perfect experiment it did strike me as interesting because it was a reminder of all that we would have to do in order to maintain a border even with a wall. So, we'd not only have a huge upfront cost, but also a huge running cost to patrol that border as well as repair and maintain whatever structures we build.

That's also just stopping the immigrants coming overland. Many of them make their way into the country through the use of underground tunnels.

I am not saying that we shouldn't do anything about the issue, but just pointing out how much of a monumental task it will be.

Which is why just building a fence alone will change nothing. The reward for coming here must be removed.
 
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Its the fact he isnt a career politician that allows him to say things others wont. If others say it, their career is over and they have to get a job in the real world. If he loses, its back to making millions in the private sector.
He can get away with it because 70% of the people see him as a joke with hair. They don't take him seriously as a candidate. Add that saying something and doing something are completely different animals. I don't think anyone has ever said or implied that border security and the illegal immigration issues weren't problems. What to do about those problems...is the problem. We can all talk "Big Sky" solutions...that's easy...actually applying those solutions and dealing with the unintended consequences of those solutions...that's the tricky part. People like to talk about illegals coming here and getting "benefits", not paying taxes, etc...but the truth is that is a small segment of that population. Most are here working their ass off for better wages than they could get at home but for less than what most Americans would find as acceptable. They are spending their earnings buying food, shelter, gas and other necessities...there are many economist who believe that their benefit to the economy is much greater than any added costs they bring.
Nobody, not Trump, not anyone can resolve any of these problems by themselves. They would need the support and cooperation of tens of thousands of people, many who have a great financial interest in these undocumented workers. Good luck getting that support.

Look, philosophically I agree with the premise that we need to control the border. On the other hand, I laugh at those who think we can do a better job at controlling the flow of humans any better than we can do so for drugs.

Or not spend a dime on any of that nonsense and do as I advocated....make it potentially expensive as hell to those who employ and house illegals. no jobs, no place to live, why go north to the land of the gringos?
This is the only solution that has any chance at stemming the problem...and even it is a solution that is full of potential landmines.
 
Whatever man. You hear what you want to hear. Go read some business insider or something.
Why are you getting pissy? Where did he say Marx was wrong about most of what he wrote? If you are going to be a proponent of something you should at least be able to answer a few questions about it.
 
The construction sector, especially the home construction sector is largely supported with illegal workers. Without those workers the capacity of the construction industry (supply) to meet the demand results in companies being able to demand higher prices for their services, same for lawn care and landscape services.
Mexico and all of Central and South America are about 90% Catholic. Many Catholic Churches are involved in finding housing and other basic needs for many of the illegals already here. You can bet they would stay involved in the issue.
Not sure what Obama has to do with a wall since he will never have anything to do with building one.

I agree that taking the jobs away would solve most of the problem. That said, doing so would require that many GOP supporters be punished and it is yet to be seen if the GOP has the cajones to eat some of their own.


In an idea world you'd be correct, however if those illegals weren't apart of the system right now those costs of construction would be thru the roof and construction would halt as well. Right now in Louisville, KY framing crews are getting $2.25 to $3.50 a sq ft and legit crews are bidding $4-5 a sq and losing. $4-5 is fair as can be honestly but it's almost double the costs.

Anyone acting like companies should not look for lower costs is an employee not an employer!
 
Or not spend a dime on any of that nonsense and do as I advocated....make It potentially expensive as hell to those who employ and house illegals. no jobs, no place to live, why go north to the land of the gringos?
Make the punishment fit the crime. Charge the employer who gets caught the amount of his profits over the period the illegal/illegals were employed.
 
Capitalism is wonderful... in the beginning. But it evolves into a rush to the bottom. A society locked in perpetual competition rewards those willing to cut corners, minimize cost, and maximize profits at all costs. When the world is your oyster and you have no sovereignty then you need care nothing for your people. They are obstacles to be negotiated around and their governments are instruments for you to maximize your mindless pursuits of profit no matter the cost to citizenry nor sovereignty.

You fear a godless communism but have invited the very devil in with a ruthless cannibalistic vulture capitalism that has done to this country what all the terrorists, communists, and standing armies could never hope to... it has eviscerated us. Hollowed us out and thrown our borders open and reduced our political system to begging harlots that serve a rich oligarchy while working men and women have been sacrificed without a second thought and thrown into a global competition with slave labor.
 
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