Memphis basketball falling apart..

[preacherfan]

Saul is really the Video Coordinator Pooh Williamson is Tubby's lead Assistant

I honestly don't think the folks at Memphis would agree that he is only a VC. I don't Saul thinks that either:

A: Right now we're solidifying our 2017 — well, it's pretty solid — and our 2018 recruiting lists and you want to make sure they're where they need to be and find the right kind of players. It takes time, making phone calls and getting transcripts. For me, the last two and a half years, I haven't really been doing a lot of the out-and-about recruiting (in his role as video coordinator at Texas Tech). But I had been doing it nine years before that (as an assistant at Tennessee Tech and Minnesota), so it's not like it's something new to me.

http://archive.commercialappeal.com...ning-from-mistakes-38a08c6f-7d-388587971.html

 

[JFCats22]

And ANOTHER transfer from Memphis

Holy crap

 

[Kentuckee]

Don't remember who it was but one of the last few years here a kid told tubby thanks but no thanks and went to prep school!!!!

No wonder the rest of the country was pissed we wanted to get rid of tubby. They knew it would only be a matter of time before we found the homerun hire. Tubby definitely one of if not the most overrated coach in college basketball history.

And incredibly, talking heads in the media suggest he is deserving of the NCAA coaching Hall of Fame!!

It's just unbelievable that certain people remain so invested in the dishonest political agenda known as "Tubby Smith is a great coach" in spite of overwhelming evidence that the man is mediocre at best. And always has been.

 

[kev69]

I still say he's the best snake oil salesman in the business. He's literraly made millions and millions with very minimal effort.

Yep.

Orlando is, and never has been, special in any way shape or form.

I would say he's below average in his profession, and that's probably being kind.

 

[kev69]

Don't worry, Tubby is a hall of famer. He'll get it straightened out.

He's also going to have his team start running, and, he's going to start recruiting harder.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

I remember watching games thinking Rondo was shaving points...then I realized no, that's bc Tubby is making a point gaurd of that caliber walk the ball up the court,And towards the end games if we were losing Rondo was just ignoring him and scoring in bunches trying to win playing how he should have

 

[TankedCat]

The reason Billy G failed so bad was the mess Tubby left behind. .

as others have said, lets not go Crazy.

Billy G had a team of Liggins, Patterson and Meeks - and he lost to Georgia on Senior Night at home in a must win game.

G didn't fail because of Tubby. He failed because he's a psycho. The moment we give a coach like Gillispie a pass is the day we start looking at coaches like him again to head up UK.

 

[NCukcat62]

Tubby was a disaster and it is showing

 

[TankedCat]

I don't blame Tubby for coming to UK, but winning the National Championship in his first season , while great for both him and UK doomed his coaching stint at UK.

I won't go so far as to say he felt he didn't have anything to prove but his coaching after that was a continual cycle of take a season off/put in a hard season/ and as his years progressed that gap widened.

 

[ZZBlueComet]

One of my memories of Tubby's recruiting prowess here was a night in Gainesville, when Noah and Horford were dunking all over us, just killing us, with guys like Perry and Sheray Thomas getting destroyed. The camera panned down the UK bench and there was Williams, Carter and Shegari, 21 feet that couldn't play.

Tubby has 1 NCAA win in 10 years, couldn't get UK back to a Final Four in 9 seasons and got fired at Minnesota - his agent must be not notch.

 

[kev69]

When people are vilified the way we were vilified for criticizing the obviously negative direction of Kentucky basketball under Tubby Smith, immediately being called racist and every other hateful name in the book for having the audacity to mention his horrible performance, it takes a lot of schadenfreude before you get back to square zero. Ten years of "I told you so" should be about right though.

And no, BCG does not get a pass on the crappy job he did either. The one thing he does get a pass on though is for being the fall guy after Smith, the guy that took the axe from the Tubby Lovers, so that Cal could come in without all the Smith baggage still clinging to the ship holding us back

Perfect way to sum all of this up.

Great job.

 

[EMMCAT]

The lineups he used was probably the most glaring move. In the Duke game, after McLeod called Duke's final TO with like 5 mins to go, Tubby never stopped the game again with a TO until a few seconds were left. He put in fresh legs at McLeod's TO and then never gave Coach K a chance to make an adjustment with a stoppage. He realized the situation and kept the team from fouling or calling a TO to not allow K to make an adjustment. Also from that game, it was a great move to utilize Heshimu and run the offense through him in the 2nd half.

Other than that game, you look at the teams we faced and the deficits that we faced during that tournament, including being down 10 to Stanford and down 10 at the half to Utah. You don't make those kind of comebacks consistently in the NCAA tournament without making adjustments. Tubby made great adjustments with the lineup and on the court that really helped us win the tournament. People forget that we were not the most talented team in the country that year and came into the season around 10th in the polls (somewhere around there, can't quite recall).

Again, I'm glad Tubby is not here anymore and he was a horrible recruiter but I thought he did an amazing job in 98' for us to win the title. That's just my opinion obviously, you may disagree if you like.

I alws thought Tubby was an excellent bench coach primarily because of that Duke game and then the Utah game. But over time he proved to be a terrible recruiter and talent judge. I think Tubby is a fine gentleman but te game has passed him by.He no longer has the energy or personality to attract recruits. That having been said, the Lawson's or rather Mr. Lawson is sleezy. Tubby called him out and Lawson responded by moving his kids out of the memphis program.I feel sorry for the mess in which Memphis finds itself . The only sensible and honorable thing to do is for Tubby to resign. He will not win at Memphis.

 

[kev69]

The lineups he used was probably the most glaring move. In the Duke game, after McLeod called Duke's final TO with like 5 mins to go, Tubby never stopped the game again with a TO until a few seconds were left. He put in fresh legs at McLeod's TO and then never gave Coach K a chance to make an adjustment with a stoppage. He realized the situation and kept the team from fouling or calling a TO to not allow K to make an adjustment. Also from that game, it was a great move to utilize Heshimu and run the offense through him in the 2nd half.

Other than that game, you look at the teams we faced and the deficits that we faced during that tournament, including being down 10 to Stanford and down 10 at the half to Utah. You don't make those kind of comebacks consistently in the NCAA tournament without making adjustments. Tubby made great adjustments with the lineup and on the court that really helped us win the tournament. People forget that we were not the most talented team in the country that year and came into the season around 10th in the polls (somewhere around there, can't quite recall).

Again, I'm glad Tubby is not here anymore and he was a horrible recruiter but I thought he did an amazing job in 98' for us to win the title. That's just my opinion obviously, you may disagree if you like.

You're giving him way too much credit.my guess is he didn't realize he had any time outs left....and I'm not kidding.

 

[ralphdaltonfan]

I alws thought Tubby was an excellent bench coach primarily because of that Duke game and then the Utah game. But over time he proved to be a terrible recruiter and talent judge. I think Tubby is a fine gentleman but te game has passed him by.He no longer has the energy or personality to attract recruits. That having been said, the Lawson's or rather Mr. Lawson is sleezy. Tubby called him out and Lawson responded by moving his kids out of the memphis program.I feel sorry for the mess in which Memphis finds itself . The only sensible and honorable thing to do is for Tubby to resign. He will not win at Memphis.

Lawson family are good people. Can tell you that mom wanted Dedric to go to UK out of HS. She also believes Chandler Lawson will be best of them all. Great family and anyone who gets Tubby thinks they are getting the guy who was at Tulsa, UGA, and UK. They don't realize they are getting the unannounced retired version. Hope for he and Donna's sake, Saul isn't embarrassing them with public drunken displays as he did up in Minnesota. That was brutal and for a family that are good people. Wish Saul the best in fighting that demon but he was in a bad spot in the encounters I witnessed and have been told from friends at University.

 

[saxonburgcat]

Video Coordinator

Whoa, dude. You got destroyed again. How many times you gonna post your nonsense on this board and all of your "inside information" as a a close friend of the Tubster only to get completely discredited?

 

[morgousky]

Chuck Hayes and Gerald Fitch were pretty good finds by Tubby.

I still think something happened during the Chris Duhon recruitment that really soured him on recruiting in general. I remember him working really hard to land him. That's about the last time I thought he put in the work on a recruit.

What's sad is Chuck Hayes was a scholarship offer from Kansas away from never playing here. Tubby was just bad. Whatever he had was primarily due to UK and not much else.

When people want to say programs don't matter, take a look at Tubby Smith. The guy had a number 1 class here. BS he could have accomplished that anywhere else except of a blue blood.

 

[morgousky]

Lawson family are good people. Can tell you that mom wanted Dedric to go to UK out of HS. She also believes Chandler Lawson will be best of them all. Great family and anyone who gets Tubby thinks they are getting the guy who was at Tulsa, UGA, and UK. They don't realize they are getting the unannounced retired version. Hope for he and Donna's sake, Saul isn't embarrassing them with public drunken displays as he did up in Minnesota. That was brutal and for a family that are good people. Wish Saul the best in fighting that demon but he was in a bad spot in the encounters I witnessed and have been told from friends at University.

The Lawson's aren't as bad as Hamilton, but they're not that great either. I too know them personally and know many people associated with them in some capacity.

In my opinion, anyone who sells their boys to the highest bidding job over what's best for them is not that great of a parent. You are correct the mother loved Cal. She's said so several times. And UK has always been the best place for them, but we aren't going to float the price tag. We don't need them.

Tubby cannot deal with Memphis city handlers and parents. I knew this the day he signed. So did most everyone I work with in Memphis. If Tubby cant deal with basic AAU ball and decent handlers, how is he going to deal with Memphis? He won't.

I think he resigns into retirement after 3 hard seasons. And Memphis fans better hope he does or he will have them just begging for a simple play in game before it's over.

 

[2Adulterers]

Whoa, dude. You got destroyed again. How many times you gonna post your nonsense on this board and all of your "inside information" as a a close friend of the Tubster only to get completely discredited?

Opinions are like &&&&&&&@@$&&& everybody has one

 

[ralphdaltonfan]

The Lawson's aren't as bad as Hamilton, but they're not that great either. I too know them personally and know many people associated with them in some capacity.

In my opinion, anyone who sells their boys to the highest bidding job over what's best for them is not that great of a parent. You are correct the mother loved Cal. She's said so several times. And UK has always been the best place for them, but we aren't going to float the price tag. We don't need them.

Tubby cannot deal with Memphis city handlers and parents. I knew this the day he signed. So did most everyone I work with in Memphis. If Tubby cant deal with basic AAU ball and decent handlers, how is he going to deal with Memphis? He won't.

I think he resigns into retirement after 3 hard seasons. And Memphis fans better hope he does or he will have them just begging for a simple play in game before it's over.

Keelon was never as coveted--Dedric and Chandler were the ones people wanted--and I don't get into what families do/don't do when it comes to recruiting--but I fully understand and would handle my own kids recruitment the way you see it. But everyone has different circumstance. Believe they are related to or at least very close with Robert Kirby too--and let's see if they learn from the first two boys recruitment as Chandler and Jonathan come up. Dedric, could be a great player but I'm not taking Keelon to get Dedric and UK can do better.

Tubby better hope he can stay on through May--blood is in the water. Penny Hardaway been angling for the job and really at this time, I think he'd do 100X better then current version of Tubby Smith.

 

[gojvc]

That's why I will never stop.

Agreed. But how in the hell did Memphis ever think this hire would turn out well? Amazing.

 

[Real Deal 2]

Tubby recruited 1 first round draft pick, oops Rondo was recruited by him but had to be begged to take and also played a kid from Glasgow over him. Enough said. Tubby had Prince and that was it along with Rondo.

 

[MegaBlue05]

My biggest beef with Tubby's recruiting was it was inconsistent after Felton left. Replacing Felton with Hobbs was Tubby's undoing.

His 2001 class was highly regarded but fell apart; the 2002 class was Azubuike, a hustler in Moss and scrubs; 2003 was four guys who were capable role players but NONE of them should've been starters at UK at any point. When the Class of 2003 became upperclassmen we started getting 8 seeds; Class of 2004 was No. 1 but vasty underachieved (1 E8, 2 round of 32, 1 round of 64) for its lofty billing in a different era; Class of 2005 was the worst class in this shcool's modern history. Not a single contributor outside of Rekalin Sims' Iowa game; Class of 2006 was very solid with Meeks and two solid contributors in P-Steve and Jasper; 2007 was again trash with a bunch of Projects + BCG's addition of Patterson.

As you can see, that's not a winning combo. Every class can have role players, but should also include at least 1-2 capable of being instant contributors. We also were defeated by a prep school in a recruiting battle.

 

[saxonburgcat]

Opinions are like &&&&&&&@@$&&& everybody has one

You sure are original. NOT!

 

[UKCATSFREAK]

You're giving him way too much credit.my guess is he didn't realize he had any time outs left....and I'm not kidding.

No, I'm not. He had 4 left. I remember it like yesterday. You don't come back that many times in an NCAA tournament without making adjustments as a coach. People can hate on Tubby all the want and say he just rolled the ball out there. That's not true. He was a good coach and was very good in that tournament. He was just a piss poor recruiter.

 

[dave5164]

I don't think a lot of our current fans on here remember the nightmare we went through in Tubby Smith's last 3-4 years and BCG two short years. The recruiting was the huge downfall and if it wasn't for the Patterson's and his family going to Barnhart and saying where has UK went the last 4-5 years and if changes wasn't coming then PPat was leaving. That is when we lost at Notre Dame in the NIT and the fan base was at all time low. If you thought some of the posts on here now are horrible you should have been here posting those 5 years before Coach Cal took over as Head Coach. The first year Tubby takes over he was loaded with a team that Coach Pitino left him after leaving for Boston Celtics. Then after that the recruiting wasn't too bad with Tubby Smith until the last 4-5 years and that is when we were missing on the 5* players and most of the 4* players. Just like Memphis next year with Tubby Smith bringing in 4 players at 3-star and losing the two best players next year that averaged 19 and 13 points per game. Most of the experts and announcers were calling the Kentucky fan base all racists when Tubby Smith left in 2006-2007. Then after hiring BCG those were the longest two years as a fan for Kentucky Basketball. Tubby has 4 players coming in next year for Memphis and all are 3-star or lower and his two best players transferred out. The exact same thing happened here at UK with Coach Smith and our program took a huge nose dive and the last 2-3 years we were either #8 or #9 Seed in the Tourney or the NIT. That is why I get so upset when I hear bad comments from our fans about Coach Cal and his coaching. Coach Cal has spoiled us in his 8 years here at UK and taking us to Four Final Fours and National Championship and Runner-up and 6 elite 8's and 6 Sweet 16's. To top that Coach Cal has now 8 #1 or #2 recruiting classes since arriving at Kentucky.

 

[JC CATS]

Hell we lost one to a prep school in North Carolina. Could you imagine UK losing a recruit to a prep school. Guys it happened, for all the youngsters that did not live through that nightmare. Billy G was embarrassment but Tubby's last 3 years were dreadful and awful. The reason Billy G failed so bad was the mess Tubby left behind. I mean the millions he has stolen is almost criminal.

So are you saying if Billy G had followed Cal he would have been successful? Wow!

 

[dukesux1]

It's one of the all time myths. That myth has made him a ton of money.

I think Tubby was/is a terrible coach. He lost 10 games or more over half his time here.
People can say what they want but Tubby was handed a Championship Team by Pitino.
He was a lazy/horrible recruiter, I remember some kid chose prep school over a scholarship to UK ( last name was Nash I believe ). If he wasn't black he would have been fired long before leaving. No pun intended, but I consider Tubby's time here the dark ages of UK basketball. He really ran the program into the ground, lack of talent for UK standards & lousy coaching staff. I remember media people saying how terrible UK was for running Tubby off, we didn't appreciate the job he did averaging 26 wins a season.
He may have been a nice guy but he was in way over his head. When Minnysoda hired him the media made it sound as if they really got a steal. He couldn't recruit talent to Lexington he sure as hell wasn't gonna recruit talent to the frozen tundra. Didn't plan on being this long winded but if you can't tell by now I really despised Tubby as UK's coach & not because of race, because, when he was hired I thought we were on our way to BIG things, first black coach at UK, was going to play uptempo & press. I thought we would have our choice of top tier talent, not so. Tubby is low mid major coach at best, just my opinion.

 

[Real Deal 2]

So are you saying if Billy G had followed Cal he would have been successful? Wow!

You my friend are a GD idiot

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

How about this nugget from Saul:

"Recruiting, to me, is the lifeblood of a program. But the great thing about working for a guy like Coach Smith is if a player is not interested or kind of puts us to the side, we don't even worry about it. We just move on to the next kid. He's won with less players; he's won with great players. So when a kid struggles to figure out what he wants to do, we're like, 'Look, you've got a scholarship offer. We're willing to take you if you really want to come. We're letting you know we've got two or three other kids in mind.' And if they say, 'Coach, I'm gonna wait,' I'm like, 'Well, it's been great. Let us know if we can do something for you,' and we'll just go sign the other kid. We don't have time for that."

Now that's passion.

 

[JC CATS]

You my friend are a GD idiot

If you talk to your friends that way, how do you talk to your enemies. I read that Billy G was unsucessful because he followed Tubby, a bad coach. Thus if he followed a successful hall of fame coach, I would have to reason he would have been successful

 

[natchezrule]

another thread about whites being persecuted

fun

What? Where?

 

[why_not_kentucky]

Lazy

 

[UKCATSFREAK]

Man please. BCG inherited a roster that included Ramel Bradley, Joe Crawford, Derrick Jasper, and Jodie Meeks, with Patterson on the way depending on whom you believe. That's 4 legit college players and a great incoming freshman.

Now the roster Calipari inherited from BCG was absolute trash. I can't believe we have people making excuses for BCG lol.

If BCG can win conference coach of the year with any roster, that roster is probably pretty good.

 

[morgousky]

Agreed. But how in the hell did Memphis ever think this hire would turn out well? Amazing.

Memphis fans were against the hire I'd say 70/30. The administration wanted stability. The knock on Tubby in their mind was recruiting.

We've got 5 stars in every other class they said.

What could go wrong they said?

Of course, they never stopped and actually thought about what tubbys actual recruiting issues are.....

AAU scene, high school coaches, handlers, guardians etc. he can't deal with people that are not the parents. Well, in Memphis, that's not going to fly. Top 100 Memphis kids are going to be Hell for Tubby to reel in. Which is why everyone just whitnessed him losing the Lawson's AND dipping into division2. He's screwed.

I don't know if Tubby is seriously just raping institutions knowing full well he's not going to work, or if he's got a problem recognizing the obvious. Maybe it's pride. I don't know....

 

[morgousky]

I don't think a lot of our current fans on here remember the nightmare we went through in Tubby Smith's last 3-4 years and BCG two short years. The recruiting was the huge downfall and if it wasn't for the Patterson's and his family going to Barnhart and saying where has UK went the last 4-5 years and if changes wasn't coming then PPat was leaving. That is when we lost at Notre Dame in the NIT and the fan base was at all time low. If you thought some of the posts on here now are horrible you should have been here posting those 5 years before Coach Cal took over as Head Coach. The first year Tubby takes over he was loaded with a team that Coach Pitino left him after leaving for Boston Celtics. Then after that the recruiting wasn't too bad with Tubby Smith until the last 4-5 years and that is when we were missing on the 5* players and most of the 4* players. Just like Memphis next year with Tubby Smith bringing in 4 players at 3-star and losing the two best players next year that averaged 19 and 13 points per game. Most of the experts and announcers were calling the Kentucky fan base all racists when Tubby Smith left in 2006-2007. Then after hiring BCG those were the longest two years as a fan for Kentucky Basketball. Tubby has 4 players coming in next year for Memphis and all are 3-star or lower and his two best players transferred out. The exact same thing happened here at UK with Coach Smith and our program took a huge nose dive and the last 2-3 years we were either #8 or #9 Seed in the Tourney or the NIT. That is why I get so upset when I hear bad comments from our fans about Coach Cal and his coaching. Coach Cal has spoiled us in his 8 years here at UK and taking us to Four Final Fours and National Championship and Runner-up and 6 elite 8's and 6 Sweet 16's. To top that Coach Cal has now 8 #1 or #2 recruiting classes since arriving at Kentucky.

I agree with you. But Cal is not measured by Billy Gillispie or Tubby Smith. This program is not measured by those few down years.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I just hope Saul comes out all right after all this.

My dad's doing great. Thanks for asking.

 

[morgousky]

Best quote yet

HoopDreams
Better Than Diamond Rings

Posts: 28,768
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 434
I Root For: EXPECTATIONS
Location: Park Avenue Campus
Post: #1
In less than a year on the job...
Tubby has admitted he hired a S&C coach too late.

Tubby bemoaned the job expectations.

Tubby ran off more than half the rostered players.

Tubby offered a D2 player.

Tubby hired his own son yet complained about a father/son dynamic in the Lawsons.

Tubby admitted he underestimated the local recruiting scene.

Tubby was fine with meeting expectations - picked 5th, finished 5th.

Tubby admitted he failed to develop his bench.



These seem like a lot of alarming missteps for a 30+ year college coaching vet.

Today 07:08 PM

 

[morgousky]

Not a Tubby fan but he did have some of my favorite players. Daniels, Hawkins, Bogans, Prince, Craword, Ramel, I think those were all Tubby's. oh and forgot about Sheray Thomas..not!

I think as we see today, those players were UK's players, not Tubby's.

For context, Prince would have gone to UCLA if offered. Hayes would have gone to Kansas if offered. I know they both bleed blue now, but a lot of Tubbys recruits were either wowed by this program or fell short of their ultimate destination.

Good luck Memphis. And please, die slower. Some of us are actually enjoying this.

 

[morgousky]

Hilarious.

 

[~Keyser Soze~]

I think as we see today, those players were UK's players, not Tubby's.

For context, Prince would have gone to UCLA if offered. Hayes would have gone to Kansas if offered. I know they both bleed blue now, but a lot of Tubbys recruits were either wowed by this program or fell short of their ultimate destination.

Good luck Memphis. And please, die slower. Some of us are actually enjoying this.

So Tayshaun really wanted to go to UCLA but they didn't offer the 12th rated player in the country that lived in their city, and didnt have any behavior or academic issues? They did sign a bunch of lower rated recruits but didn't offer Taushaun? Hmm.