Memphis basketball falling apart..

[gossie21]

The rumor was that Tubby never intended to offer Adam Williams a scholarship, but accidentally made the offer during a camp and didn't want to offend anyone by rescinding the offer. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly offer a scholarship on accident, but, if true, that has to be the weirdest recruiting job in UK Basketball history.

The story I heard is basically the same. Tubby made some off-handed compliment like, "I would love to have a player like you at UK." Williams and his dad interpreted that as an offer. And then committed through the Media instead of calling Tubby. When word got back to UK that Williams had committed, Tubby asked his assistants who had extended the offer, everyone just shrugged and they let the kid have a scholarship to avoid embarrassing him. Williams had one of the single worst free-throw attempts I have ever seen. It hit the bottom right corner of the backboard. I don't even know how that is possible.

 

[gossie21]

I'm still salty over the charge they called on Barbour in the Marquette game. We had all the momentum and the bucket and free throw would have cut it to single digits and that call took away all momentum. Higgins must have been on the call--haha!

I seem to recall that one was Karl Hess. I know he called the bogus charge against Azubuike late in the UAB game. So I may be getting the 2 games confused.

*Edit - I just went back and checked and Karl Hess did officiate the Marquette game. And the UAB game the following year. He knocked us out 2 years in a row. And from that point on we were 4-6 in games he officiated with Tubby as the coach. He was suspended by the ACC for racially insensitive comments.... so maybe there was something else going on there.

 

[HoptownCat93]

Is that the goal? I mean, that's why you'd hire a coach like Tubby at this point, but to go from Cal to Pastner to Tubby....its more of an admission than a direction.

They were LUCKY to get Cal in the first place. They're a non P5 school with not much history outside of Cal. It's not really a place recruits want to flock to right now.

If Tubby can stabilize the place for a few years, then they'll have some moderate success and it'll be a little more attractive to a coach who think they can take it to the next level

 

[LeonThe Camel]

Some of those recruiting classes at UK had to be all-time lows.

2002
Kelenna Azubuike (#31 overall)
Antwain Barbour (Junior College)
Brandon Stockton
Bernard Cote


2003
Shagari Alleyne
Bobby Perry
Woo Obrzut
Sherray Thomas


2005
Jared Carter
Adam Williams
Rekalin Sims

Classes are always respective of the returning players.
2002 we had Fitch, Bogans, Camara, Carrier, Daniels, Hayes, Estill returning. Carruth, Hawkins, Chiles and Stone were supposed to return but left with little time to recruit for their absences.

2003 - expected back were Hayes, Daniels, Carrier, Azubuike, Barbour, Cote, and Fitch. Perry was was supposed to be recruit that would break in with returning players.

Point is sometimes you need to reload, other times you are searching for the missing piece.

 

[LeonThe Camel]

The rumor was that Tubby never intended to offer Adam Williams a scholarship, but accidentally made the offer during a camp and didn't want to offend anyone by rescinding the offer. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly offer a scholarship on accident, but, if true, that has to be the weirdest recruiting job in UK Basketball history.

Perhaps the same way someone finds himself starting in a tournament game when he normally sits the bench for the entire game.

 

[spotter34]

Tubby's downfall in recruiting began when he had such success with Erik Daniels, Cliff Hawkins, Gerald Fitch, and Marquis Estill. None of those players were highly rated. I think Hawkins was a 4 star out of Oak Hill, but was not an elite PG. Tubby molded that group about as well as anyone could. But Tubby always had issues with the elite 5 star player outside of a few exceptions.

Desomond Allison - was a high rated 4 star player who had a lot of success his first year and a half but was kicked off team for pot
Jules Camara - came out of Oak Hill and was a low end 5 star or high 4 star player that got suspended over DUI.
Marvin Stone - top 3 player that never was used the way he needed to be and he transferred to UL, which Tubby fought.
Keith Bogans - stuck around and is one of the all-time great WildCats but he and Tubby butted heads. He wanted to leave after his sophmore year, had a horrible junior year, and had to come back for a successful senior year.
Jason Parker - 5 star player out of North Carolina that had an up and down freshmen year then left, trouble for pot.
Rashaad Carruth - had injury early in the season that slowed him down but ended up leaving in the middle of Fr season.
Azubuike - had the issues with his dad follow him to Kentucky and it was in the media weekly it seems.
Randolph Morris - tried to leave after freshmen year, got undrafted, Tubby found mysterious fax, he sits half his sophmore year, and leaves after his Jr year.
Rajon Rondo - had a successful two years at UK but he despised Tubby, Rondo was benched his sophmore season for a time in favor of Brandon Stockton.
Joe Crawford - left for a time during his freshmen year, came back, didn't play that much, and ended up playing two more years under Tubby and one under BCG.

Tubby decided it was not worth the hastle to bring in these types of kids and he more or less quit recruiting and them but more importantly that type of player wanted nothing to do with Tubby or UK. Thus we end up with the Sheray Thomas's and Bobby Perry's of the recruiting world.

 

[Born and raised Big Blue]

Dawson tweeted something but it was deleted did anyone see it?

 

[barryn2000]

I'm still trying to come up with what made him a good or great bench coach.

It's roots was him not calling a timeout against Duke...which was a no brainer....after that, it's been repeated so much people accept it as so. I also think some feel guilty about criticizing him so they give the "great bench coach" as a consolation prize.

 

[TankedCat]

Tubby's downfall in recruiting began when he had such success with Erik Daniels, Cliff Hawkins, Gerald Fitch, and Marquis Estill. None of those players were highly rated. I think Hawkins was a 4 star out of Oak Hill, but was not an elite PG. Tubby molded that group about as well as anyone could. But Tubby always had issues with the elite 5 star player outside of a few exceptions.
Tubby decided it was not worth the hastle to bring in these types of kids and he more or less quit recruiting and them but more importantly that type of player wanted nothing to do with Tubby or UK. Thus we end up with the Sheray Thomas's and Bobby Perry's of the recruiting world.

yea I agree..I remember Tubby saying something about finding Diamonds in the rough. I loved that team of Daniels, Hawkins, Fitch and Estill. They were about as seamless of a team as I can remember at UK. So credit to Tubby for doing his work there, but like you said, it just motivated him to try to repeat it. The second failure, I believe was his reliance on a sub par coaching staff to evaluate and recruit talent for him in finding those kinds of players.

In some ways, its probably harder to find those kinds of kids - overlooked motivated players that are fundamentally sound than is its to find uber talented raw kids that are on the radar of other schools.

 

[csrupp]

I'm still trying to come up with what made him a good or great bench coach.

It's one of the all time myths. That myth has made him a ton of money.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

The story I heard is basically the same. Tubby made some off-handed compliment like, "I would love to have a player like you at UK." Williams and his dad interpreted that as an offer. And then committed through the Media instead of calling Tubby. When word got back to UK that Williams had committed, Tubby asked his assistants who had extended the offer, everyone just shrugged and they let the kid have a scholarship to avoid embarrassing him. Williams had one of the single worst free-throw attempts I have ever seen. It hit the bottom right corner of the backboard. I don't even know how that is possible.

I hereby accept the non-existent proposal from Emily Ratajkowski. Let's make this happen.

 

[UKKAZ#1]

The story I heard is basically the same. Tubby made some off-handed compliment like, "I would love to have a player like you at UK." Williams and his dad interpreted that as an offer. And then committed through the Media instead of calling Tubby. When word got back to UK that Williams had committed, Tubby asked his assistants who had extended the offer, everyone just shrugged and they let the kid have a scholarship to avoid embarrassing him. Williams had one of the single worst free-throw attempts I have ever seen. It hit the bottom right corner of the backboard. I don't even know how that is possible.

That's what I heard too.. Tubby didn't offer him just gave a compliment and his family misinterpreted it.... Although looking back at Tubby's recruiting I like to pretend that's how we ended up with most our players because I REALLY like Tubby as a person so I try to give myself the illusion he's not a horrible coach

 

[NCukcat62]

Tubby hasn't caught up with the times yet he still rides the coattails of 98. In my opinion a garbage coach. I will no longer take up for tubby on a coaching level. Guy needs to retire. He's already destroyed his legacy as a good coach.

 

[Cawood86]

Dont understand why schools keep hiring him. He sure milked that FF and title for millions of dollars.
Guys leave wherever he is like a house on fire.

 

[YourPublicEnemy]

Dude had the talent. Just didn't put it all together at UK for whatever reason.

He was actually projected as a first round pick from JUCO before he came to Kentucky. Another JUCO guy went in the first round that year, I believe.

 

[catdance]

It's rough. He'll get one more season down here likely and "retire". What they need is Richard Pitino.

Yea, maybe he can implement a stripper program. Like father, like son.

 

[westerncat]

Dedric and KJ Lawson where do you thing they will end up ?

 

[OHIO COLONEL]

Big schools need to stop hiring Tubby. He is perfect for a mid-major school with no expectations. He'll overachieve and be the hero.

What everybody said when he took the step 'down' to Minnesota. And then down a bit further to TT. You're right..now it's mid-major

 

[coolioo1]

I heard Antwan Barbour is tearing it up in summer scrimmages.....

 

[GermantownDawg]

Dedric and KJ Lawson where do you thing they will end up ?

Wherever their dad ends up..

 

[Soupbean]

It's roots was him not calling a timeout against Duke...which was a no brainer....after that, it's been repeated so much people accept it as so. I also think some feel guilty about criticizing him so they give the "great bench coach" as a consolation prize.

Yep, credit Billy Packer who made a big deal over it during the broadcast. Not sure Tubby ever thought about it, we were up, had the momentum and no need to call a TO.

Always amused me how our folks bought into that and repeated it as gospel for years.

 

[HLW1010]

Does that mean they are going to Drake University in Des Moines, or to Kentucky since KJ tweeted Drake lyrics.

 

[morgousky]

As I've said, Memphis fans didn't want him and are already planning his exit. Tubby is terrible. He's an assistant of a great program or a HC at a smaller program, like MEAC or MAC etc. people need to stop defending him and hold him accountable just as they would any other coach. Cut the soft bigotry out.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Dedric and KJ Lawson where do you thing they will end up ?

I don't know but their dad is a class act. Tweeted that he was giving two middle fingers on his way out. To whom they are directed I don't know.

 

[Cat Ballou]

Per Twitter, word is they are looking to transfer to an SEC school. My guesses, in order, would be Mizzou, Arkansas, Auburn, UT.

Who knows, maybe Cuonzo will even find their Dad a job on staff.

 

[DKCAT49]

I truly like Tubby and like most people think he is a class act. My son and I were at an AAU event and walked from court to court and decided that there was only mid major talent in the building at best. My son was about 11 at the time and he said I bet Tubby is here recruiting..sure enough he was, as we turned the corner he was looking at a kid. Pretty sure he was at MN. then. The truth is Tubby is a nice X and o coach and I thought he called a pretty good game. He did bring in nice talent at UK ,and he did develop talent. Its just Cat fans will not tolerate 10 loss seasons every year. Even someone like Izzo would have a hard time at UK. Tubby could just not handle this very tough job that Cat basketball can be. He was a bad fit, and in some ways in over his head (just as BCG and Eddie Sutton were, good coaches that were bad fits). I honestly think Pitino thought he might come back to UK one day and knew Tubby would not win at the level we wanted him too. Tubby was just an interim until he came back (that is 100% speculation on my part with no facts whatsoever) The truth of the matter is AAU basketball is dirty , and the handlers of these kids can be dirty. Tubby did not want to get down and dirty with the handlers and so he missed out on a lot of top recruits. If most Cat fans knew what went on it would turn your stomach. I am not suggesting Cal is cheating, he doesn't have too, but big time basketball is dirty. Cal and even Rick had a recruiting motor that just would not stop and a work ethic to match If you don't think these poor inner city kids are not getting something you are naïve..

 

[Bluewest]

I don't know but their dad is a class act. Tweeted that he was giving two middle fingers on his way out. To whom they are directed I don't know.

Wrong, the son KJ is also named Keelon, that was his account.

 

[zannmann]

Sorry, but it is time for Tubby to retire. He has lost whatever passion and skill he had. The game and relating to young players has passed him by.

 

[bluedomino]

From the boards, the feelings are mixed on the Lawsons as they got sick of the family running the program. I guess Tubby didn't care for the blackmail.

 

[villefan76]

Just saw this:

 

[Cefiro]

The rumor was that Tubby never intended to offer Adam Williams a scholarship, but accidentally made the offer during a camp and didn't want to offend anyone by rescinding the offer. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly offer a scholarship on accident, but, if true, that has to be the weirdest recruiting job in UK Basketball history.

Pretty sure that's true

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

Wrong, the son KJ is also named Keelon, that was his account.

Ah. I sit corrected.

 

[AnarchoNeoLuddite]

Two seasoned players will be a nice pickup for someone

 

[buster3.0]

I'm sure he will find someone else out there to give him a large paycheck. Unless he has made bad investments, he is already set for his life along with leaving a nice inheritance for his kids. If I were him, I wouldn't worry about job security too much. There is also a book deal out there waiting for him. His time at UK would make a good one. They love me...They hate me.

 

[KA4Prez]

I can't imagine Dedric at UK. Guy is an amazing player.

 

[preacherfan]

I don't know but their dad is a class act. Tweeted that he was giving two middle fingers on his way out. To whom they are directed I don't know.

I was just thinking about how Memphis completely self-destructed going down the stretch. There must have been a TON of turmoil going on in that program. This isn't just about two players who are unhappy with PT or something like that. This was a total rejection of the coach and/or program.

 

[JohnnyGentle]

dedric lawson is slow, but really skilled. reminds me of boris diaw

smells like auburn

 

[Catfan2226]

Dedric and KJ Lawson where do you thing they will end up ?

Not at UK.Way to much baggage that we don't need and it doesn't come entirely from either kid.

 

[loublue22]

I remember watching Adam Williams play pickup in Memorial, there were literally dozens of guys at Johnson better than him.

I was concerned.

 

[Chuckinden]

Just wait until Tubby gets his own players.....