They played ineligible players. Players who took fake classes, literally classes that didn't exist. There were hundreds of unauthorized grade changes. There was close to 100 plagiarised papers found in the Wanstien report. There is email evidence that football and basketball players were led into these courses by administration. You have to be a scumbag lawyer to ignore all of that and call it easy classes that were available to everyone.
Matt Jones repeats the lie, UNC didn't break any rules.
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Which is what makes it so incredibly frustrating. I've been saying for months now that it seems the ncaa is just overwhelmed. There's just too much to consider
I think the ratio on some of the unc men's bball majoring in these classes was up to 30%-
...thus, far exceeding the general student population majoring in AA studies.
This alone leads me to conclude that these athletes were pushed in this direction intentionally. If the ratios were more in line with the general student population, then this wouldn't be such a story.
...thus, far exceeding the general student population majoring in AA studies.
This alone leads me to conclude that these athletes were pushed in this direction intentionally. If the ratios were more in line with the general student population, then this wouldn't be such a story.
Jay Bilas keeps making the point that the NCAA isn't supposed to regulate the rigor of the classes. While that is true, that's not really the issue.
This isn't about rigor, it is about classes that did not exist, for which no coursework was required. It's one thing to have easy classes. It's on an entirely new level to have a shadow curriculum set up to allow athletes to stay eligible without actually doing any coursework.
This isn't about rigor, it is about classes that did not exist, for which no coursework was required. It's one thing to have easy classes. It's on an entirely new level to have a shadow curriculum set up to allow athletes to stay eligible without actually doing any coursework.
If what they did isn't wrong then why does it look like the women's basketball team is about to get punished? Why was it ok for football and men's basketball but not for them?
There is a difference in doing wrong/cheating and breaking a rule. Everybody knows they cheated, even the NCAA. The problem is if you do not have a specific rule they broke you can't punish them.
The NCAA doesn't want to punish schools, they just want to collect paychecks. After the PSU fiasco I doubt they will ever punish a school without having 100% proof they broke the rule.
The NCAA doesn't want to punish schools, they just want to collect paychecks. After the PSU fiasco I doubt they will ever punish a school without having 100% proof they broke the rule.
Nothing to do with being overwhelmed!!! This is nothing more than a cover up by the ncaa for one of its chosen ones that cannot be touched!!! Puke and ND and a couple more would get this treatment. If you stick the name KENTUCKY in this investigation instead of uncheat they would be getting the heavest punishment ever levied on a member institution...Period!! This is such a shame.
He said UNC didn't break any rules. Did you go to UNC too? You seem to struggle comprehending that simple statement.
The NCAA doesn't have a rule against playing ineligible players? I thought Memphis had to vacate an entire season because Derrick Rose was deemed ineligible.
Got the link? Maybe a source you won't reveal? Just BC you start a thread being upset does not make me pickup your cause.
He obviously didn't hear what Matt said. Relax.
The classes existed in the sense you could register for them and receive a grade. Thats all the NCAA cares about, academic progress and GPAs. The NCAA has no rules that cover course curriculum or grading procedures as far as a I know. They really don't have the manpower to investigate every schools course catalog.
Don't get me wrong the tarheels are guilty as hell but it looks like they're gonna skate. RIP womens basketball though.
Don't get me wrong the tarheels are guilty as hell but it looks like they're gonna skate. RIP womens basketball though.
Of course they do Keyser. What makes the UNC kids ineligible?
The problem is, the NCAA only said kids had to be enrolled in X amount of classes and pass X amount of classes per semester. They never said the classes had to be legitimate. Even giving the kids fake classes they still count for UNC therefore counting for the NCAA. Even though they gave the athletes preferential treatment, since the fake classes were open to everyone it isn't considered an impermissible benefit.
I'm not defending UNC, just explaining what MJ and Bilas were saying.
The problem is, the NCAA only said kids had to be enrolled in X amount of classes and pass X amount of classes per semester. They never said the classes had to be legitimate. Even giving the kids fake classes they still count for UNC therefore counting for the NCAA. Even though they gave the athletes preferential treatment, since the fake classes were open to everyone it isn't considered an impermissible benefit.
I'm not defending UNC, just explaining what MJ and Bilas were saying.
But once determined fake, and changed grades, it was made easy for the ncaa to respond. Their work was done for them..other than the punishment. ..to be determined.
I think it was a much higher ratio (like 70%) on the 2005&2009 title teams. Like 9 or 10 out of 13 were in the bogus major. How can that b ignored?
Exactly. And he went on to talk about how logically, this made no sense and something should be done. They also talked about how stupid it is that the NCAA polices high school students and their grades, however ignores what goes on in colleges (if they choose to ignore it).
To me the biggest issue is telling players to take certain classes and moving their grades around to make sure they are eligible. The first part the NCAA would say there is no proof of that going on. But I am not sure how in the world they can deny the second part. The truth of the matter is the NCAA is going to do what they want to do, and justify it with words and move on. That is why the NCAA needs to be done away with.
Then they deserve to lose the lawsuit. They deserve to go out of business. They need to refund the money taken from every school they hit with sanctions for academic probation or academic fraud with interest. Then they still need to go out of business. They are corrupt and worthless. I am sick of their hypocrisy. They just don't want to punish schools like UNC******* and Duke. Those schools can do what they want and never have to answer for anything. They didn't even try to investigate the Heels for wheels and that one would have been easy. They represent the worst in our society, a thin veneer of pasted-on respectability to cover an interior of corruption. If they do not fall, it is just another sign that our society also deserves to fall because it is too accepting of wrongdoing and corruption.
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To the OP, starting a thread doesn't mean everyone that reads YOUR thread knows where your head is at. Being judgemental without a background weakens your case. Consider that when you post a THREAD, you think: no one knows what you are talking about. Still don't know what you are talking about. Done
What about Jim Harrik at Georgia? He had a class for athletes that was easy and they didn't skate
You are stupid. Why did Georgia get punished if that was all they cared about? What about the grade changes? Can we just ignore that since it is UNC****? What about Syracuse? Why should it matter if someone did the work for a SA if grade changes don't matter or classes can be created and graded by a secretary?
Maybe someone will pick up on the unequal treatment that the women's team is getting. I wish this would get picked up by the major news people and then there might be some pressure put on the NCAA. The NCAA and UNC need to be exposed.
Maybe Bilas won't respond is because he knows that Duke might be guilty of the same thing?
What does Bilas say about the women's basketball team getting thrown under the bus? If Bilas worked for the NCAA as an attorney he could find a dozen ways to put UNCheat baskeball out of business for a decade, frankly. As a ACC slurper, Dookie and Espn employee, he's taken the opposite approach. Sounds like Jones has jumped into the Espn canoe too. .
If they do punish the women's team and not the men's I would love to see someone associated with the women's team hit the NCAA with a Title IX lawsuit. I don't see how the NCAA could win that case.
Everyone who's using Georgia or SMU or Syracuse as an example, here's the difference.
THOSE SCHOOLS SELF-REPORTED!!! When caught with undeniable evidence, they did the right thing.
uncheat** did not. They stalled, stone-walled, denied. Basically continued their cheating, immoral ways to avoid punishment. They dared the NCAA to find violations. The NCAA cannot go in to a school and declare its classes to be fraudulent or fake. It is up to the schools to police themselves. Most do a good job, self-reporting the occasional violation; very few ever lie and cheat.
But, having said that, uncheat** does have a bit of integrity. They did find that the women's BB program cheated, and for that will pay a terrible price. But men's BB, not a chance in hell they'll self-report. The Caroline Way. BS.
THOSE SCHOOLS SELF-REPORTED!!! When caught with undeniable evidence, they did the right thing.
uncheat** did not. They stalled, stone-walled, denied. Basically continued their cheating, immoral ways to avoid punishment. They dared the NCAA to find violations. The NCAA cannot go in to a school and declare its classes to be fraudulent or fake. It is up to the schools to police themselves. Most do a good job, self-reporting the occasional violation; very few ever lie and cheat.
But, having said that, uncheat** does have a bit of integrity. They did find that the women's BB program cheated, and for that will pay a terrible price. But men's BB, not a chance in hell they'll self-report. The Caroline Way. BS.
With all of the "investigation" that goes on for recruits to be eligible, to say that once a student athlete registers for classes his, the school's and the NCAA's responsibility for those classes being legitimate are over, is beyond ridiculous!!
The "Carolina Way" is now the biggest fraud in NCAA history, no matter what the NCAA says!!!
I knew when I saw Michael Jordan and Mark Emmert together at the Final 4, UNC would skate. Now I think I'm going to PUKE!!
The "Carolina Way" is now the biggest fraud in NCAA history, no matter what the NCAA says!!!
I knew when I saw Michael Jordan and Mark Emmert together at the Final 4, UNC would skate. Now I think I'm going to PUKE!!
Not sure what Georgia thing you are talking about, but for Syracuse, it went much deeper than just a grade changes. Melo played for a while when they knew he was ineligible. Then they wrote a paper for him to get it changed. People admitted to writing it for him.
The UNC people are still acting like the players did their work even if it was plagiarized. Not to mention Cuse not even following their own substance abuse policy. Plus, UNC changed a lot of grades for non student athletes in the same courses. They knew how to protect themselves.
UNC shouldn't get in trouble for Lack of Institutional Control. They had this scam planned and controlled perfectly to protect their basketball team. They don't care what happens to womens basketball or football. (That first sentence was pure sarcasm in case some of you miss it)
Edit- What CatsEye2010 said is true.
Beside the fact of how corrupt, hypocritical, and inept the NCAA is, the thing I most can't get over is the prevailing attitude of the UNC fanbase.
I have read repeatedly, "The basketball program did nothing wrong, so they can't be punished". Well, by the amazingly warped standard of the current NCAA rules, maybe Carolina didn't technically break a rule. (Even though it is just mind-boggling that there may not actually be any explicitly stated rules against the shenanigans that occurred - which I seriously doubt.)
But for their fan base to literally be okay with it, and think they deserve no punishment or consequence?? And this is the same group of people that have historically been so proud of their academic prestige and heritage?? It's just unexplainable.
I truly hope that if the University of Kentucky is ever caught up in anything even halfway remotely as egregious as the UNC basketball program has participated in for decades.......................that we as a fan base would have enough scruples to be absolutely mortified, and not attempt to coast on the horrible excuse that it was "nothing illegal".
I have read repeatedly, "The basketball program did nothing wrong, so they can't be punished". Well, by the amazingly warped standard of the current NCAA rules, maybe Carolina didn't technically break a rule. (Even though it is just mind-boggling that there may not actually be any explicitly stated rules against the shenanigans that occurred - which I seriously doubt.)
But for their fan base to literally be okay with it, and think they deserve no punishment or consequence?? And this is the same group of people that have historically been so proud of their academic prestige and heritage?? It's just unexplainable.
I truly hope that if the University of Kentucky is ever caught up in anything even halfway remotely as egregious as the UNC basketball program has participated in for decades.......................that we as a fan base would have enough scruples to be absolutely mortified, and not attempt to coast on the horrible excuse that it was "nothing illegal".
I would relax but he came at me like a snartass. Treat people with respect if you wanna be respected.
Also, the only reason I can think that they are punishing the women's team(other than needing a scapegoat) is because of Jan Boxill. She was the women's team academic adviser, so it was easy to connect her to the athletic side.
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