What rule did Memphis break after the NCAA cleared Rose to play in college? Because Rose refused to talk to the NCAA, they wiped out a whole season. Didn't the cheats have people that refused to talk as well?
Matt Jones repeats the lie, UNC didn't break any rules.
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What rule did Memphis break after the NCAA cleared Rose to play in college? Because Rose refused to talk to the NCAA, they wiped out a whole season. Didn't the cheats have people that refused to talk as well?
He was giving Bilas's argument, which he says is a lawyer's argument, which he respects as a lawyer. He also said he wasn't convinced that UNCheat should not be punished. According to Bilas's argument, the distinction between the women's team and the men's team is that there is evidence the women's staff directed players to those classes, and there wasn't evidence the men's staff did. After the 2009 title, Williams spoke at a celebration, where he praised Walden as being the most crucial person on his staff because of how he was intimately involved in every aspect of the players' academics. It strains credulity to think the athletic staff was not involved in steering that many players to those courses. They don't need courtroom-level evidence in other cases, but of course when it comes to UNCheat, only the most rock solid evidence is necessary I guess.
The two situations are nothing alike. Same with Syracuse, Georgia, Duke, SMU, or any other school that has been in trouble.
The NCAA cleared him, but the governing body over the SAT is who said his test wasn't valid. After that the NCAA tried to investigate again and when Rose refused to talk to them they went by the only evidence they had which was the Educational testing service saying his test wasn't valid. Not to mention his brother getting free flights on their trips.
This is like court rulings in which we all know the person did it(OJ, Casey Anthony, etc...) but there is just not enough to stick them.
I'm not sure the ncaa will go with the non-existent course therefore ineligible players argument, though I think it has merit. However, if they refuse to delve into academics (and they will) folks will see how little they care about integrity and STUDENT athletes. It's about money, so they won't lift a finger. Your point can be used to call for the end of the ncaa. It's about time.
Snart is new word for me. Young kids think teachers are smart asses. Some people appreciate knowledge sharing. Some don't and resent new knowledge.
For the record, and for the 1,000th time, those classes were not open to everyone. We have proof that they didn't want "frat boys" taking the classes. BTW, former athletes who came back to UNC to complete their degrees were also taking the classes but were classed as non-athletes.
MJ isn't exactly informed on this topic but that isn't uncommon.
I have a feeling that schools are going to try to go around the rules now and maybe even dare the NCAA to do anything. They will bring up the UNC thing as an example that they can't be punished either. I wish all of the conferences that have had teams punished by the NCAA would call on all of their teams to not play UNC as a sign of protest. This would get a lot of attention from the media.
So the NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction over unauthorized grade changes the keep athletes eligible who would otherwise be ineligible? The NCAA doesnt have jurisdiction over fake classes that were created for athletes to keep them eligible?
Preacher, I should have put it as "open to everyone".I understand they made sure enough non athletes were in them so they would not get in trouble, but they were clearly created for the athletes.
Keyser, if you skirt the rules enough, no. They do not have jurisdiction over them.
What UNC did is amazing in a way. They knew exactly what rules they could break without actually breaking any rules. Its clear they should be hit with a LOIC, but they were able to use the NCAA's own rules and guidelines to protect themselves and keep from getting punished. Like I said before, the situation with Penn State really made the NCAA pull reins on what punishments they will give out.
Keyser, if you skirt the rules enough, no. They do not have jurisdiction over them.
What UNC did is amazing in a way. They knew exactly what rules they could break without actually breaking any rules. Its clear they should be hit with a LOIC, but they were able to use the NCAA's own rules and guidelines to protect themselves and keep from getting punished. Like I said before, the situation with Penn State really made the NCAA pull reins on what punishments they will give out.
The brother being on those flights were a minor issue, which was resolved by Memphis making restitution. That was not even remotely an issue in the vacation of the season. It was entirely the SAT being thrown out as you said. However, that is the crux of the issue. The NCAA always finds ways to punish when it wants to, and to let certain schools get away with things. I forget who it was, but someone even admitted that they target specific schools.
They didn't need a specific rule that Penn State broke, then didn't need evidence that Rose didn't take the test (although I believe he probably didn't), and had he played for Duke or UNCheat, they would have found a way to ignore that the SAT was thrown out and not vacate anything. They do what the want and are never held accountable. UNCheat should have received the death penalty, end of story. Letting that many players take fake courses, even if they didn't steer them to those courses, is LOIC.
Keep in mind that a player from UNLV had his test score invalidated this year. I am waiting to see if UNLV vacates the season. If not, it sure would look strange to me.
No. The National COLLEGIATE Athletic Association only has jurisdiction over high school academics. DWS.
I feel ridiculous even typing that.
It is amazing.
However, as others have said before, it really isn't a case of LOIC. In the truest sense, they were in total control.
Have to tip your hat. I guess.
I didn't catch everything Jones said about the cheats, but I did hear him at the end of the segment saying that "UK fans hate Duke much more than UNC anyway". That would be true before we learned what the cheats have done. I doubt that is the case now. I hope it's not. My UNC*** hate has transcended sports hate. Those cheating scumbags are the epitome of corruption and I despise them on a personal level.
Jones sounded like he was trying to redirect UK fans outrage away from the cheats and back to Duke sports hate. This didn't sit well with me at all, and I normally have no problem with Jones. Sounded like he was on the cheat payroll.
Jones sounded like he was trying to redirect UK fans outrage away from the cheats and back to Duke sports hate. This didn't sit well with me at all, and I normally have no problem with Jones. Sounded like he was on the cheat payroll.
You nailed it. For years, we have endured those self-righteous scumbags telling us about how they were superior to us because they were morally superior. And, even now, they will not admit the cheating that was done by Dean Smyth and Roy Williams. But, for the most part, they have run off to the safety of their own board to continue to brag about their mythical titles and mythical ethics.
Matt wasn't defending UNC. He said that he still thinks what they did is absolutely wrong and they should be punished. He just says that he can understand Jay's argument, even though he doesn't agree and wasn't convinced.
That's just the attorney in Matt coming out.![[winking]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/wink.r191677.gif "Winking [winking]")
One of my first thoughts after the Bilas interview was that Jay seems incapable of taking off his "lawyer cap". Being one himself, I'm sure Matt can understand his viewpoint.
Of course the notion of criminals getting off on the technicalities of the law is what exasperates most of us laymen.
That's just the attorney in Matt coming out.
One of my first thoughts after the Bilas interview was that Jay seems incapable of taking off his "lawyer cap". Being one himself, I'm sure Matt can understand his viewpoint.
Of course the notion of criminals getting off on the technicalities of the law is what exasperates most of us laymen.
Well this Cat fan has always had UNC as the #2 villain behind UL. Duke is a close 3rd though.
Yep. Why Jones doesn't seem to understand this is beyond me. I was really disappointed in him.
I don't know what Jones said. But I do know in the first NOA the NCAA linked the men's basketball team to impermissible benefits and a loss of institutional control. Then they backed off -- not because of any new evidence of lack of guilt, but because of MORE evidence of guilt. Anyone who can't see the unseen hand of behind the scenes pressure in that isn't really being honest.
If Jones did say UNC-Cheats can't be punished under NCAA rules, he's probably just sucking up to ESPN. Obviously, the entire athletic department can be punished under loss of institutional control. There was no explicit rule violated by Penn State either, and they got hammered, even after some of that hammering was reeled in.
If Jones did say UNC-Cheats can't be punished under NCAA rules, he's probably just sucking up to ESPN. Obviously, the entire athletic department can be punished under loss of institutional control. There was no explicit rule violated by Penn State either, and they got hammered, even after some of that hammering was reeled in.
Jones said if he did a UK fan hate poll between UNC*** and Duke, he was sure Duke would win by a landslide (paraphrasing). He was adamant about it. Do your poll Matt. Anybody who has been following the corruption of this cheat scandal will vote UNC***. Surely UK fans aren't as ignorant as you think.
It's basically the same pattern we saw with IU fans, and now to an extent, some U of L fans. Even after the trouble in which both teams have recently found themselves. Yet they still attempt to drag UK and Cal along into the mire with them, without any proof whatsoever......................(unlike their situations). Zero self-awareness.
You just have to shake your head.
So..we are supposed to conclude that this Boxhill advisor guided the womens BB team, and uncovered documentation of that fact on paper = probation for womens BBall team,
but....
mens BBall team will a roster full of players with AA studies major, but nothing documented on paper that they were encouraged to take these classes (i.e. no smoking gun) = no probation ???
Do we know the % of mens BB team vs % of women' BB team that majored in AA studies? If the % are similar, then only an idiot could come to the conclusion that the cases should be judged in a different manner. This would be an utter travesty to throw the women's program under the bus for the same crime.
but....
mens BBall team will a roster full of players with AA studies major, but nothing documented on paper that they were encouraged to take these classes (i.e. no smoking gun) = no probation ???
Do we know the % of mens BB team vs % of women' BB team that majored in AA studies? If the % are similar, then only an idiot could come to the conclusion that the cases should be judged in a different manner. This would be an utter travesty to throw the women's program under the bus for the same crime.
You have to ignore the fact that athletes were steered into fraudulent classes by administration and ignore the fact that they changed grades to keep athletes eligible. After you ignore that, you have to disregard common sense to get to the technicalities.Matt wasn't defending UNC. He said that he still thinks what they did is absolutely wrong and they should be punished. He just says that he can understand Jay's argument, even though he doesn't agree and wasn't convinced.
That's just the attorney in Matt coming out.
One of my first thoughts after the Bilas interview was that Jay seems incapable of taking off his "lawyer cap". Being one himself, I'm sure Matt can understand his viewpoint.
Of course the notion of criminals getting off on the technicalities of the law is what exasperates most of us laymen.
It's my understanding that the men's team was the first to enroll in these classes.
Anyone?
No. The tests were reported on because they were embarrassing. His son was slapped for giving As to students who didn't even bother taking those tests.
Unfortunately, you could say it is evidence of the ncaa letting a school off on this kind of thing before.
Friday, August 6, 2004; Page D02
The NCAA concluded a 10-month investigation into the Georgia men's basketball program yesterday by placing the school on four years' probation and citing the team's former assistant coach with unethical conduct and academic fraud.
The school avoided significant penalty because it had banned its team from the 2003 postseason after affirming allegations that centered around former assistant Jim Harrick Jr., son of former head coach Jim Harrick. Harrick Jr., whose contract was not renewed in 2003, now must seek the NCAA's permission if he wishes to coach again before 2011.
The NCAA affirmed violations that included Harrick Jr. providing $300 to a friend of former player Tony Cole for the player's expenses and fraudulently awarding "A" grades to three men's basketball players in a course Harrick Jr. taught. Harrick Jr. also encouraged two players in the class to provide misleading information to investigators, the NCAA ruled.
Thomas Yeager, the NCAA infractions committee chairman, called it an "egregious" academic fraud case.
The investigation also found that the school allowed six players to make $1,572.66 worth of long-distance telephone calls.
Other penalties included cutting one men's basketball scholarship per year for three seasons (beginning in 2005) and vacating wins and records of six players who participated while ineligible between 2001 and 2003. Georgia will appeal the ruling.
-- Eric Prisbell
The NCAA concluded a 10-month investigation into the Georgia men's basketball program yesterday by placing the school on four years' probation and citing the team's former assistant coach with unethical conduct and academic fraud.
The school avoided significant penalty because it had banned its team from the 2003 postseason after affirming allegations that centered around former assistant Jim Harrick Jr., son of former head coach Jim Harrick. Harrick Jr., whose contract was not renewed in 2003, now must seek the NCAA's permission if he wishes to coach again before 2011.
The NCAA affirmed violations that included Harrick Jr. providing $300 to a friend of former player Tony Cole for the player's expenses and fraudulently awarding "A" grades to three men's basketball players in a course Harrick Jr. taught. Harrick Jr. also encouraged two players in the class to provide misleading information to investigators, the NCAA ruled.
Thomas Yeager, the NCAA infractions committee chairman, called it an "egregious" academic fraud case.
The investigation also found that the school allowed six players to make $1,572.66 worth of long-distance telephone calls.
Other penalties included cutting one men's basketball scholarship per year for three seasons (beginning in 2005) and vacating wins and records of six players who participated while ineligible between 2001 and 2003. Georgia will appeal the ruling.
-- Eric Prisbell
Oh, there was plenty enough to stick it to OJ Simpson. That's for sure. Never seen so much evidence tied to a single person, only to be completely ignored because of racism.
Sorry! I know that's off subject and you were just making a point with it but I've been watching the show on TV about the OJ trial. So, it's fresh on my mind. Lol.
Given how brazenly this scandal has shown that college basketball is totally corrupted , is there any doubt that they manipulate the games too . I would expect and believe the game is heavily tampered with . Just look at the bizarre stuff outside of violation rulings , including but not limited to tournament seedings , unbalanced brackets that always tend to have certain teams in them , inexplicable officiating speaks for itself . I used to think it was randomness but after decades of witnessing unexplained bull ish , it's apparent that the games dirty on all levels .
No smoking guns other than the emails proving they pushed athletes into AFAM, had special classes created for them, oh and Rashad McCants confession.
Jones, at his very core, is a suck-up. He also is a momma's boy. The very minute he is presented with the opportunity to join the old boys club he will throw everything to the side and hop on licking all the way. Never understood how UK fans could be hoodwinked by Jones but after watching them fall for Maggard it is sadly no surprise. PT Barnum approves.
I am slowly moving my hate toward the NCAA, IF, they fail to level some sanctions on UNC.
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