Hypocrisy in Regards to Diallo

[Bluegrassking]

It wouldn't hurt anyone to at minimum, hold fire until it shakes out.

I'd also encourage some folks to accept that sometimes plans change according to circumstances and that there doesn't always have to be a vilian or incompetence or any actual dishonesty for things to play out in a way that is disappointing or frustrating.

Everything isn't some conspiracy nor can too many clearly see the future.

 

[track42]

Plantation mentality dies hard among some fans.

Stephen A smith.

 

[Kampus Korner]

all this Diallo angst isn't changing Cal's approach or the mindset of young kids trying to get to the NBA.

all it does is provide fodder for opposing fans who school isn't capable of getting one and dones (or none and done)

I don't see the value of trashing Diallo for make the same decision we would make if we were in his shoes (and don't even try to tell me you're such a UK fans you'd give up millions as a 19 year old for the chance to play one year for UK - nope, not even hearing that noise)

At the same time, I don't see the value of trying to sell fans on Diallo's time at UK (should he not come back). Its speculative at best and serves no one.

I believe we as a fan base should just wish him well in however this plays out and be prepared to welcome him next year should he return without all the butthurt in the off season.

If he were to go pro we chalk it up as the "cost of doing business" in the one and done model. If Cal were to stay 10 more years, we'd probably have 2 or 3 more Diallo situations before it was said and done.

Well said Tanked.

 

[BlueSince92]

I want to know who did this calculation.

That $125,000 number is almost entirely imaginary.

What does a kid really get in a year?

$10,000 real value in tuition.

But it cost the university $0.00 to give it to him. So that's definitely not money the school is out.

Somewhere around $4,500 food money. This is the biggest real money I can confidently say the school actually "spends" on a kid. But it's not entirely a real number either. The university charges a regular residential student $4,500 a year for "all access"-plan food and preparation that actually cost the university something less than $4,500, and then the university marked it up because the university is a business (especially under that slimeball Capilouto). The food they serve in Wildcat Lodge is going to be worth a little more presumably even if only because of quantity. But I'm not sure that brings the university's expense in providing it all the way up to the actual $4,500 a year.

Board. That bed in Wildcat Lodge is there regardless. They didn't have to build it for Diallo.

Healthcare. About $2,200 for the year. This is probably real money.

A stipend? Do the kids get spending money? When I had a graduate assistantship at UK not too long ago that included a stipend of $13,500 annually. However, I had to pay my room, board, textbooks, and all my other incidental expenses out of that. Does a kid whose room and board are already paid for get any spending money with the NCAA shouting "off with her head!" about amatuerism all day long? If they do get any stipend I'd have to imagine it's pretty low.

Textbooks. Okay they presumably get real textbooks and with the insane price of textbooks this is probably another real outlay, probably around $2,000 a year.

Bus fare - it's a charter bus man, it's rolling anyway.

Air fare - same thing unless they fly commercial. But whenever I've gone to Bluegrass Airport to welcome the kids back returning from an NCAAT game I've had to go to the charter concourse. So again one kid is not a single cent's difference there in terms of what the university pays.

I'm sure there are some tiny outlays for shoes and uniforms, and some bean counter math involving the depreciation of the facilities and training equipment (even though when those need replacing the money will come from boosters anyway, not the university).

In my opinion, if anyone is going to claim a kid gets $125,000 worth of value a year and they're going to try to stand on that number, then what they're really ultimately claiming is that over $100,000 of what the kid supposedly received (forget what the university really spent) is in the value of the coaching they receive.

Now I'll be the first to say coaching obviously has a value and coaching from Cal, Payne and the crew has got to be among the most valuable relatively. But that's still about the definition of a made-up number and still awfully hard to show how the university is "out of" whatever the kid received there.

If Diallo ripped anything off UK (assuming he doesn't come back) then it obviously has to be something the university actually lost. I doubt anyone could realistically show that's ultimately much of anything at all.

 

[morgousky]

Eveything else aside, we've definitely got a vocal minority who would have no problem with one or two guys doing this yearly. They are NBA fans or rival fans, they don't give a rip about this roster. They'd gladly allow this program to play zero games and send everyone pro as to "not reveal anything to scouts". They are sick in the head and these types would damage this program beyond repair if given the chance.

Pathetic.

 

[BlueSince92]

Eveything else aside, we've definitely got a vocal minority who would have no problem with one or two guys doing this yearly. They are NBA fans or rival fans, they don't give a rip about this roster. They'd gladly allow this program to play zero games and send everyone pro as to "not reveal anything to scouts". They are sick in the head and these types would damage this program beyond repair if given the chance.

Pathetic.

Just to clarify the intent of my own post, I do think it would set a dangerous precedent if Diallo leaves now. I think one or two kids doing this every year would be absolutely horrible, just one more nail in the coffin the NBA is building for college basketball. I just don't like the idea of someone claiming they're out $62,500 when more realistically they're only out $4,000 (because we're only talking half a year) and they received much more value than that in exchange, if only in the value of Fox and Monk both being able to practice against an elite quality guard defender, something we didn't have two of spare before Diallo came. I just like realism.

 

[docholiday51]

Eveything else aside, we've definitely got a vocal minority who would have no problem with one or two guys doing this yearly. They are NBA fans or rival fans, they don't give a rip about this roster. They'd gladly allow this program to play zero games and send everyone pro as to "not reveal anything to scouts". They are sick in the head and these types would damage this program beyond repair if given the chance.

Pathetic.

Some posters have been all over the map finding ways to justify the Diallo situation.I get Cal being "players first" and OAD above all else,but at some point one has to look in the mirror and say I am a UK fan,I want what is best for UK in basketball ,football baseball and any other sport.I am all for kids chasing their dream but we(fans) we still be here when they are long gone.Some of us were here along with Coach Rupp and before Hall,Sutton,Pitino,Smith etc,etc.

If Diallo returns then I guess no harm no foul, but getting into the situation was a mistake for the program.I understand some don't feel that way at all but many do.I don't think there is a 100% right or wrong way to look at this,there is something to be said for both sides of the argument.I guess some will say ,well the old guys can't adjust and they are wrong but being old school doesn't automatically make one wrong just as new age thinking doesn't always mean one is right and vice versa

 

[BostonCat2001]

Some posters have been all over the map finding ways to justify the Diallo situation.I get Cal being "players first" and OAD above all else,but at some point one has to look in the mirror and say I am a UK fan,I want what is best for UK in basketball ,football baseball and any other sport.I am all for kids chasing their dream but we(fans) we still be here when they are long gone.Some of us were here along with Coach Rupp and before Hall,Sutton,Pitino,Smith etc,etc.

If Diallo returns then I guess no harm no foul, but getting into the situation was a mistake for the program.I understand some don't feel that way at all but many do.I don't think there is a 100% right or wrong way to look at this,there is something to be said for both sides of the argument.I guess some will say ,well the old guys can't adjust and they are wrong but being old school doesn't automatically make one wrong just as new age thinking doesn't always mean one is right and vice versa

talk about hypocrisy.

heres the thing about the old/new school thing. cal is here and not going anywhere. he also IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. so fans that have a problem with it can either change and deal with it, stay quiet, or voice their negative opinion and run the risk (regardless of how small) of hurting the program.

now we know "what is best for UK" is a load of crap because if that was true...fans would just shut up. but they cant, they wont, why...because they think its about them. they need another final four t shirt

 

[d2atTech]

Diallo don't care either.
He's an NBA fan.

right, but he shouldn't be wasting his time at uk if that's the case.

 

[Hoskins91]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain what we lost in this. The only thing people keep saying is it hurts our image. Who cares? People have been saying that about us since Cal's been here.

 

[hootervillearnolds]

I really don't understand the angst and animosity regarding HD perhaps not coming back to play. Talk about his "stealing" and "cheating" UK, and Cal messing up in this case seems way off.

What exactly did UK lose by letting HD practice?

Did it hurt recruiting other OADs? On the contrary it gives (as someone said above) another reason for parents and players to see Cal as "players first."

Did it cause team division in the locker room? No, but if he had gotten to play it very well could have been a dividing point; given that he would have taken minutes from someone, whether it was Briscoe who came back as a Sophomore and had put in 1 1/2 years or Hawkins who was finally allowed to contribute after putting in nearly four years of work (or Fox - who was the best player on the team).

Did he walk away mid-season next year taking game and starting five practice time away from someone? No (if he leaves now) he is really more like a "missed recruiting target," a guy you didn't get. Except he wasn't even that bad, since you didn't miss on him and have him show up in a Duke or Kansas uniform. Having him in Lexington for a semester insured we would never wear the colors of an opponent.

As for those saying if Cal thought there was anyway he might not be coming back he should have been playing him this past season. Well, that is just silly.

First off, he wasn't not playing him because it would have cost HD a year of eligibility. There was never any way he was a four year guy, so giving up a year meant nothing. So it wasn't future eligibility which was keeping him out.

On the other hand playing him could have caused huge in-team division. Imagine if when Fox was not playing well at Vandy that Cal would have inserted HD in the second half. And then Diallo would have made a late TO and (as new freshman are prone to do) hung his head and let a game turning dunk ensue. That could have been a disaster.

But more than that, there was no chance he was playing (unless Fox would have had a severe injury ending his season). He wasn't ready to contribute. The toughest things for freshman (IMO) are conditioning, understanding team offensive concepts (i.e. getting over AAU) and learning to play defense as a part of a unit. Those things all take more time and playing time than HD was going to get. That development happening with time is why Cal's teams are so much better in March than in December. (And why coaches love those off-shore games when allowed in September, and for kids to show up in June). HD was going to be able to help in practice with individual defense on Fox, but in a game he would have been schooled by other teams and out of position on D, and not ready for the full contact of games with adult men (aka juniors and seniors) that it takes months for the guys to get accustomed to, and he would not have been in shape to play hard for even five minutes at a time.

So, what did Cal gain by letting him come (even though he knew he might leave)?

Good will, as noted above.

Plus he got to innovate, which Cal loves. I suspect he saw that the top football teams have a similar arrangement with kids (especially QBs - the gridiron equivalent to a PG) where they enroll early and get a spring practice under their belt. This was what HD was getting.

So, get over it. UK lost zero, zip, nada by HD coming and practicing, even if he doesn't come back. And if he does return, Cal may have stumbled upon a way to make OADs more like Sophomores during that one season that they do play (remember, HD is different in that he can go pro as a freshman because of his situation - a kid graduating and enrolling early normally cannot. But maybe they can be like a football player who comes for spring practice - I don't know - but wouldn't that be nice?)

 

[78Gooses]

Finding fault with Cal's recruiting. The strength of a Hall of Fame coach. Our coach. Worried that a young man would take advantage of an opportunity when offered. Feeling cheated as a fan.................................. I don't understand any of this. He didn't play for anyone else and he may still play for us. I'm good with that.

 

[CHAMPCAT11]

I really don't understand the angst and animosity regarding HD perhaps not coming back to play. Talk about his "stealing" and "cheating" UK, and Cal messing up in this case seems way off.

What exactly did UK lose by letting HD practice?

Did it hurt recruiting other OADs? On the contrary it gives (as someone said above) another reason for parents and players to see Cal as "players first."

Did it cause team division in the locker room? No, but if he had gotten to play it very well could have been a dividing point; given that he would have taken minutes from someone, whether it was Briscoe who came back as a Sophomore and had put in 1 1/2 years or Hawkins who was finally allowed to contribute after putting in nearly four years of work (or Fox - who was the best player on the team).

Did he walk away mid-season next year taking game and starting five practice time away from someone? No (if he leaves now) he is really more like a "missed recruiting target," a guy you didn't get. Except he wasn't even that bad, since you didn't miss on him and have him show up in a Duke or Kansas uniform. Having him in Lexington for a semester insured we would never wear the colors of an opponent.

As for those saying if Cal thought there was anyway he might not be coming back he should have been playing him this past season. Well, that is just silly.

First off, he wasn't not playing him because it would have cost HD a year of eligibility. There was never any way he was a four year guy, so giving up a year meant nothing. So it wasn't future eligibility which was keeping him out.

On the other hand playing him could have caused huge in-team division. Imagine if when Fox was not playing well at Vandy that Cal would have inserted HD in the second half. And then Diallo would have made a late TO and (as new freshman are prone to do) hung his head and let a game turning dunk ensue. That could have been a disaster.

But more than that, there was no chance he was playing (unless Fox would have had a severe injury ending his season). He wasn't ready to contribute. The toughest things for freshman (IMO) are conditioning, understanding team offensive concepts (i.e. getting over AAU) and learning to play defense as a part of a unit. Those things all take more time and playing time than HD was going to get. That development happening with time is why Cal's teams are so much better in March than in December. (And why coaches love those off-shore games when allowed in September, and for kids to show up in June). HD was going to be able to help in practice with individual defense on Fox, but in a game he would have been schooled by other teams and out of position on D, and not ready for the full contact of games with adult men (aka juniors and seniors) that it takes months for the guys to get accustomed to, and he would not have been in shape to play hard for even five minutes at a time.

So, what did Cal gain by letting him come (even though he knew he might leave)?

Good will, as noted above.

Plus he got to innovate, which Cal loves. I suspect he saw that the top football teams have a similar arrangement with kids (especially QBs - the gridiron equivalent to a PG) where they enroll early and get a spring practice under their belt. This was what HD was getting.

So, get over it. UK lost zero, zip, nada by HD coming and practicing, even if he doesn't come back. And if he does return, Cal may have stumbled upon a way to make OADs more like Sophomores during that one season that they do play (remember, HD is different in that he can go pro as a freshman because of his situation - a kid graduating and enrolling early normally cannot. But maybe they can be like a football player who comes for spring practice - I don't know - but wouldn't that be nice?)

To each his own but here's what it hurt IMO. There are a lot of people that I would have to refer to as 'former' UK fans because they're now 'players first' fans that would be just as happy seeing an early NCAA Tournament exit as long as 5-6 players are high draft choices. They're bigger NBA fans and revel in the recruiting success and draft night success more than a national title. As I said, to each his own. The problem is there are still a large number of UK fans that are 'UK first' and want to set the ultimate goal as a NC and STILL WANT THE PLAYERS TO REACH THEIR DREAM but figure both of these things can still easily happen since these kids are 18-19 years old and don't have to use UK as the fast track to the NBA. You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion but not everyone is a one and done fan and there's nothing wrong with those that feel that way.

 

[mj2k10]

To each his own but here's what it hurt IMO. There are a lot of people that I would have to refer to as 'former' UK fans because they're now 'players first' fans that would be just as happy seeing an early NCAA Tournament exit as long as 5-6 players are high draft choices. They're bigger NBA fans and revel in the recruiting success and draft night success more than a national title. As I said, to each his own. The problem is there are still a large number of UK fans that are 'UK first' and want to set the ultimate goal as a NC and STILL WANT THE PLAYERS TO REACH THEIR DREAM but figure both of these things can still easily happen since these kids are 18-19 years old and don't have to use UK as the fast track to the NBA. You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion but not everyone is a one and done fan and there's nothing wrong with those that feel that way.

That's completely insane. Like, totally.

Ask Doc for stronger pills.

 

[theGspot]

right, but he shouldn't be wasting his time at uk if that's the case.

But he hasn't really wasted UK's time at this point. He came in and practiced hard, was by all accounts never a problem or caused any issues. He opted to test the draft, which was always an option and likely the plan. He'll work out and get good feedback. If it so happens that he gets positive enough feedback to feel he will be a solid first rounder he should take it. If anyone on this board went to work for a company and during your training period someone else came and offered you your dream job, making millions of dollars, no one here would turn it down. I doubt anyone would honestly turn down that kind of money even if it was a shitty job you didn't really want. He's a teenage kid making the biggest decision of HIS life. He's wasted no one's time and has unlikely cost us any recruits. I don't honestly know of any players at his position we were seriously in contention with anyway. People just want something to complain about in this situation, their mentality is that if they can't have what they want no one else should either.

 

[d2atTech]

I want to know who did this calculation.

That $125,000 number is almost entirely imaginary.

What does a kid really get in a year?

$10,000 real value in tuition.

But it cost the university $0.00 to give it to him. So that's definitely not money the school is out.

Somewhere around $4,500 food money. This is the biggest real money I can confidently say the school actually "spends" on a kid. But it's not entirely a real number either. The university charges a regular residential student $4,500 a year for "all access"-plan food and preparation that actually cost the university something less than $4,500, and then the university marked it up because the university is a business (especially under that slimeball Capilouto). The food they serve in Wildcat Lodge is going to be worth a little more presumably even if only because of quantity. But I'm not sure that brings the university's expense in providing it all the way up to the actual $4,500 a year.

Board. That bed in Wildcat Lodge is there regardless. They didn't have to build it for Diallo.

Healthcare. About $2,200 for the year. This is probably real money.

A stipend? Do the kids get spending money? When I had a graduate assistantship at UK not too long ago that included a stipend of $13,500 annually. However, I had to pay my room, board, textbooks, and all my other incidental expenses out of that. Does a kid whose room and board are already paid for get any spending money with the NCAA shouting "off with her head!" about amatuerism all day long? If they do get any stipend I'd have to imagine it's pretty low.

Textbooks. Okay they presumably get real textbooks and with the insane price of textbooks this is probably another real outlay, probably around $2,000 a year.

Bus fare - it's a charter bus man, it's rolling anyway.

Air fare - same thing unless they fly commercial. But whenever I've gone to Bluegrass Airport to welcome the kids back returning from an NCAAT game I've had to go to the charter concourse. So again one kid is not a single cent's difference there in terms of what the university pays.

I'm sure there are some tiny outlays for shoes and uniforms, and some bean counter math involving the depreciation of the facilities and training equipment (even though when those need replacing the money will come from boosters anyway, not the university).

In my opinion, if anyone is going to claim a kid gets $125,000 worth of value a year and they're going to try to stand on that number, then what they're really ultimately claiming is that over $100,000 of what the kid supposedly received (forget what the university really spent) is in the value of the coaching they receive.

Now I'll be the first to say coaching obviously has a value and coaching from Cal, Payne and the crew has got to be among the most valuable relatively. But that's still about the definition of a made-up number and still awfully hard to show how the university is "out of" whatever the kid received there.

If Diallo ripped anything off UK (assuming he doesn't come back) then it obviously has to be something the university actually lost. I doubt anyone could realistically show that's ultimately much of anything at all.

realistically, he got more than 10k in benefits -- access to the best trainers, coach, etc. -- but less than 125k. For most of our one-and-done players, UK benefits more than the player. This is not one of those scenarios.

 

[crazyY8s2]

Let's be honest, the anger here has nothing to do with Diallo; it doesn't have anything to do with "players first" vs "UK first"; it doesn't have anything to do with people being bigger NBA fans than UK fans.

Those that are angry don't like the OAD reality of college basketball and chose this as their soapbox. Sorry. I'm not buying it. Unless you completely ignore the complexities of a single elimination tournament, UK has been the most successful program in the nation since Cal's arrival. Guess what? Being "players first" has made "UK first". One of these days Cal will be gone and we won't get these players at the same level. When that day comes, I'm afraid we'll look back and miss the days when UK was first. I'm going to celebrate what we have. You should too.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

all this Diallo angst isn't changing Cal's approach or the mindset of young kids trying to get to the NBA.

all it does is provide fodder for opposing fans who school isn't capable of getting one and dones (or none and done)

I don't see the value of trashing Diallo for make the same decision we would make if we were in his shoes (and don't even try to tell me you're such a UK fans you'd give up millions as a 19 year old for the chance to play one year for UK - nope, not even hearing that noise)

At the same time, I don't see the value of trying to sell fans on Diallo's time at UK (should he not come back). Its speculative at best and serves no one.

I believe we as a fan base should just wish him well in however this plays out and be prepared to welcome him next year should he return without all the butthurt in the off season.

If he were to go pro we chalk it up as the "cost of doing business" in the one and done model. If Cal were to stay 10 more years, we'd probably have 2 or 3 more Diallo situations before it was said and done.

Too many act like Cal has unfettered power. He doesnt. If HD does leave like this it will give fodder to those who want to complain about our basketball culture. From fans to boosters to opposing schools, the media and talking heads, this episode will give them all the ammunition they want. It may make us look good to recruits, but it will look bad and be talked about in a negative light.

We would never hear about it but it wouldn't surprise me if those above Mitch would like some explanations. This is NOT the University of Cal. If HD does leave, the fallout will be interesting.

 

[docholiday51]

talk about hypocrisy.

heres the thing about the old/new school thing. cal is here and not going anywhere. he also IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. so fans that have a problem with it can either change and deal with it, stay quiet, or voice their negative opinion and run the risk (regardless of how small) of hurting the program.

now we know "what is best for UK" is a load of crap because if that was true...fans would just shut up. but they cant, they wont, why...because they think its about them. they need another final four t shirt

We agree on one thing,Cal is not going to change,(well I guess two things he is here now) he could decide to leave next week.Opinions given on chat boards have much less potential for damage to a program than having a player come in for half a year,never play a game,and leave for the NBA.

Do I think it is all about me,oh hell no.if he leaves we have 3 guards on the roster another player with an unknown injury in an all star game and just about 0 returning experience,if he stays at least he has a half year of understanding what goes here on a daily basis.

You seem to like nothing better than to degrade UK fans and try to point out how self centered,spoiled or whatever other negative adjective you can come up with.You should know quite a bit about a load of crap because most of your posts contain a generous portion of it.

 

[BoxterS]

let me know how you feel when its a 10+ loss team that is lucky to get to the 2nd round. with diallo and bamba, team could be special and make a run. oh well...hope Cal can pull a miracle

I think Cal's "miracle" is very different than our miracle.

Our miracle is getting a player late in the game that can help us win a national title.

Cal's miracle is getting a kid to the draft that would otherwise never have a shot

Our priorities are moving further and further apart.

 

[Kampus Korner]

Let's be honest, the anger here has nothing to do with Diallo; it doesn't have anything to do with "players first" vs "UK first"; it doesn't have anything to do with people being bigger NBA fans than UK fans.

Those that are angry don't like the OAD reality of college basketball and chose this as their soapbox. Sorry. I'm not buying it. Unless you completely ignore the complexities of a single elimination tournament, UK has been the most successful program in the nation since Cal's arrival. Guess what? Being "players first" has made "UK first". One of these days Cal will be gone and we won't get these players at the same level. When that day comes, I'm afraid we'll look back and miss the days when UK was first. I'm going to celebrate what we have. You should too.

Amen! The fans who are now whining about Diallo leaving or the OAD strategy adopted by Coach Cal must have an insidious case of amnesia or be too young to appreciate UK's basketball history. UK was spiraling into national irrelevancy before Cal arrived. The UK basketball program was not even discussed as being one of the top basketball programs during the last several years of Tubby Smith. Billy Gillespie was quickly on his way to running UK basketball into the backwaters of mediocrity. Fortunately, Cal rescued UK.

John Wall, DeMarcus Cousins, Eric Bledsoe and all the other elite high school talent that have chosen to play at UK since 2009 did not come to Kentucky because of Its "storied reputation". They came then and have continued to come since 2009 to play at Kentucky SOLELY because of John Calipari. Have we forgotten how excited we used to get before Cal when UK was able to get only one or two top 30 recruits a year?

For nearly a decade we were never able to compete with the North Carolina's or the Dukes when it came to signing the best players. All of this immediately changed when Cal became our coach. Now, apparently, some in our fan base have grown unhappy with Cal's OAD success (4 Final Fours in 8 years). I don't get it.

We better enjoy this run while we can. In the 100 plus year history of UK basketball, this is an unusually successful run. If Cal were to leave today, which coach could UK hire that would equal his ability to lure the "best of the best"to Kenrucky? Let's be real. Right now, John Calipari is the "Pied Piper" of college basketball. As a UK fan since I saw my first game in 1959, I surely enjoy my team being one of only a handful of teams in the country, year after year, which has a legitimate shot at the national title.

In my lifetime as a UK fan, these have been precious years of success under John Calipari. Since I became a fan (1959), and before Cal became coach (2009), UK went to one Final Four under Rupp (1966), three Final Fours in thirteen years under Hall (1975,1978 and 1984), no Final Fours in four years under Sutton, two Final Fours in seven years under Pitino (1996, 1997), one Final Four in 10 years under Tubby (1998) and no Final Fours in two years under Gillespie. All totaled, that's seven Final Fours in 50 years compared to four Final Fours in only eight years under Cal. Wow! In light of the above, I'll stick with Cal's OAD approach and a Diallo or two leaving every so often even if they never play a second for UK.

 

[TankedCat]

We would never hear about it but it wouldn't surprise me if those above Mitch would like some explanations. This is NOT the University of Cal. If HD does leave, the fallout will be interesting.

The best thing that happened to Mitch Barnhart is Cal. With Gillispie and Joker on his resume he isn't about to chase off the golden goose over a kid declaring for the draft without playing for us.

not now, not ever. And if anyone above, lateral or below Mitch went after Cal over a kid declaring early for the draft, Mitch would meet them at the door and escort them back to the parking lot.

 

[BostonCat2001]

I think Cal's "miracle" is very different than our miracle.

Our miracle is getting a player late in the game that can help us win a national title.

Cal's miracle is getting a kid to the draft that would otherwise never have a shot

Our priorities are moving further and further apart.

one of those miracles matters for real. the other lets everyone get a new t-shirt

 

[kyjeff1]

all this Diallo angst isn't changing Cal's approach or the mindset of young kids trying to get to the NBA.

all it does is provide fodder for opposing fans who school isn't capable of getting one and dones (or none and done)

I don't see the value of trashing Diallo for make the same decision we would make if we were in his shoes (and don't even try to tell me you're such a UK fans you'd give up millions as a 19 year old for the chance to play one year for UK - nope, not even hearing that noise)

At the same time, I don't see the value of trying to sell fans on Diallo's time at UK (should he not come back). Its speculative at best and serves no one.

I believe we as a fan base should just wish him well in however this plays out and be prepared to welcome him next year should he return without all the butthurt in the off season.

If he were to go pro we chalk it up as the "cost of doing business" in the one and done model. If Cal were to stay 10 more years, we'd probably have 2 or 3 more Diallo situations before it was said and done.

Here's the problem with your statement. We aren't talking about Diallo giving up millions to suit up for UK. If the kid chose to stay in the draft with no 1st round guarantee, then he is making a huge mistake and it would have shown us that he never had intentions of playing here.
Nobody is saying he should come back to UK if he's a guaranteed first rounder.
But if he is being told he is a second rounder, the smart thing to do is bring his ass back to UK and play a season.
If he's as good as I've been reading, then he'll be a lottery pick in the 18 draft.
But it sounds like he's talking about staying in the draft no matter what.
I would rather that kind of "none and done" happen elsewhere.

 

[TankedCat]

one of those miracles matters for real. the other lets everyone get a new t-shirt

well lets not go crazy - the fans don't support UK athletics and UK doesn't have this huge infrastructure in support of athletics with the end purpose of being a clearing house for kids to get into the league.

Every year the goal of our athletics, any athletics at UK is to win, and utlimately that means toward a national championship.

The moment we start to belittle that in exchange for some virtuous altruistic belief, not only are we lying to ourselves, but we're doing a disservice to the program and its intended purpose.

There is an implied agreement when a one and done chooses UK, and that is why some people are upset.

As I said in an earlier post, situations like this are the cost of doing business with a one and done type player. Their goal is the NBA, not UK. That will always be priority number #1. And Cal sells it that way.

 

[TankedCat]

Here's the problem with your statement. We aren't talking about Diallo giving up millions to suit up for UK. If the kid chose to stay in the draft with no 1st round guarantee, then he is making a huge mistake and it would have shown us that he never had intentions of playing here.
Nobody is saying he should come back to UK if he's a guaranteed first rounder.
But if he is being told he is a second rounder, the smart thing to do is bring his ass back to UK and play a season.
If he's as good as I've been reading, then he'll be a lottery pick in the 18 draft.
But it sounds like he's talking about staying in the draft no matter what.
I would rather that kind of "none and done" happen elsewhere.

a 19 year old making a huge mistake. its not exactly earth shattering.
Diallo's first obligation is to do what is best for him.

Does it really matter if he goes first in the draft or doesn't get drafted? If he believes he is doing what is best for him, then with or without Cal's blessing, with or without the support of the fan base, Diallo is following thru on what he came to UK for - to get his shot at the league.

I don't believe the angst shown here would be any different if he were the #1 draft pick. Everyone who is complaining would still be saying the same thing - that he has an obligation to play for UK.

The problem here is we keep projecting our values, our loyalties onto these kids thinking that they should walk away from wealth they've never imagined just 2 years ago just to make a group of people that wouldn't have said boo to him otherwise had he chose Kansas , Duke or UNC happy.

 

[kyjeff1]

token internet tough guy response. just call me a fag while you are at it...know you want too.

LOL, pot meet kettle.

 

[kyjeff1]

Eveything else aside, we've definitely got a vocal minority who would have no problem with one or two guys doing this yearly. They are NBA fans or rival fans, they don't give a rip about this roster. They'd gladly allow this program to play zero games and send everyone pro as to "not reveal anything to scouts". They are sick in the head and these types would damage this program beyond repair if given the chance.

Pathetic.

They are good with it because Cal is good with it. They would change course the very second Cal came out and said he was duped and disagrees with zero and done.

 

[TankedCat]

They are good with it because Cal is good with it. They would change course the very second Cal came out and said he was duped and disagrees with zero and done.

or if we didn't have a national championship and a handful of final fours in the current model. That's where I'm having problems with this.

What is your goal as a UK fan? To have players stick around for 3 or 4 years? because my stated goal as a fan would be to have a team that competes for national championships. And if you compare our run that we've been on since the one and done formula, its historic in comparison to UK's overall history. I never once said as a fan before Cal arrived that my stated goal was to retain quality players for more than 1 year. Did you?

I'm not a Calipari sycophant, I'm a never have to relive Tubby , Sutton or Gillispie era basketball sycophant. As long as Cal is delivering, then yea, I'm not going to look for things to complain about.

 

[BoxterS]

one of those miracles matters for real. the other lets everyone get a new t-shirt

Brainwashed

 

[kyjeff1]

or if we didn't have a national championship and a handful of final fours in the current model. That's where I'm having problems with this.

What is your goal as a UK fan? To have players stick around for 3 or 4 years? because my stated goal as a fan would be to have a team that competes for national championships. And if you compare our run that we've been on since the one and done formula, its historic in comparison to UK's overall history. I never once said as a fan before Cal arrived that my stated goal was to retain quality players for more than 1 year. Did you?

I'm not a Calipari sycophant, I'm a never have to relive Tubby , Sutton or Gillispie era basketball sycophant. As long as Cal is delivering, then yea, I'm not going to look for things to complain about.

I think the one and done is okay, but it's spiraling out of control. We have kids leaving that have no shot at the first round of any NBA draft.
Now we are having kids come in for a couple of months of practice, then jumping (I know, I know, he hasn' jumped yet), but I'm not okay with UK being an NBA developmental team. This is still college. The John Wall's, AD's and KAT's, yeah, those guys HAVE to go, no doubt about it.
But could you imagine the run we would be on if we retained the players that jumped and fell in the water?
Nevertheless, I'm not good with the direction we are headed, we are turning into an NBA factory first type program.
I love Cal, love what he has done here, I disagree with some things, but, for the most part Cal has more than proven that he is always a step ahead. I just feel the NBA jumping has gotten out of control.

 

[BostonCat2001]

Brainwashed

says the guy who is pissed he doesnt get a new t-shirt.

 

[BlueRunner11]

a 19 year old making a huge mistake. its not exactly earth shattering.
Diallo's first obligation is to do what is best for him.

Does it really matter if he goes first in the draft or doesn't get drafted? If he believes he is doing what is best for him, then with or without Cal's blessing, with or without the support of the fan base, Diallo is following thru on what he came to UK for - to get his shot at the league.

I don't believe the angst shown here would be any different if he were the #1 draft pick. Everyone who is complaining would still be saying the same thing - that he has an obligation to play for UK.

The problem here is we keep projecting our values, our loyalties onto these kids thinking that they should walk away from wealth they've never imagined just 2 years ago just to make a group of people that wouldn't have said boo to him otherwise had he chose Kansas , Duke or UNC happy.

Call me old fashioned, but I believe when a player is healthy and is on scholarship to play basketball, he should be playing basketball. That's the agreement, is it not?

The ONLY reason he wasnt playing was NBA related. All those other reasons given to the press were pure bs.

Say what you want about Giles, but at least he wanted to get out there and help his team. It's likely going to cost him, but despite my hate for Duke, I respect the kid for that. He could've easily pulled a Diallo.

 

[BlueDevilWildcat]

a 19 year old making a huge mistake. its not exactly earth shattering.
Diallo's first obligation is to do what is best for him.

If he believes he is doing what is best for him, then with or without Cal's blessing, with or without the support of the fan base, Diallo is following thru on what he came to UK for - to get his shot at the league.

The problem here is we keep projecting our values.

There really are some people for whom the ends (winning in this case) justify almost anything. You know how many kind and moral people feel the way you do? Zero. I'm going to show your message to my 4 and 6 year olds as exactly the opposite of how a good person behaves. Thanks for that.

 

[BostonCat2001]

Call me old fashioned, but I believe when a player is healthy and is on scholarship to play basketball, he should be playing basketball. That's the agreement, is it not?

The ONLY reason he wasnt playing was NBA related. All those other reasons given to the press were pure bs.

Say what you want about Giles, but at least he wanted to get out there and help his team. It's likely going to cost him, but despite my hate for Duke, I respect the kid for that. He could've easily pulled a Diallo.

does your respect help pay the mortgage?

and him playing basketball wasnt the deal. in fact it was the opposite. you arent old fashioned, you just refuse to believe what the deal was and cant accept it. no matter how many times people tell you.

 

[BlueRunner11]

does your respect help pay the mortgage?

and him playing basketball wasnt the deal. in fact it was the opposite. you arent old fashioned, you just refuse to believe what the deal was and cant accept it. no matter how many times people tell you.

Oh I know what the deal was/is. I was calling this one from the beginning.

If it was such a noble cause as you are implying, then Cal and Diallo should've just said, "hey he's not going to be playing here...he wants to go to the league this summer and were gonna help him out." There was a reason they didn't just come out and say this and I think you just might be smart enough to actually figure out why even though you'll never admit it.

 

[BostonCat2001]

Oh I know what the deal was/is. I was calling this one from the beginning.

If it was such a noble cause as you are implying, then Cal and Diallo should've just said, "hey he's not going to be playing here...he wants to go to the league this summer and were gonna help him out." There was a reason they didn't just come out and say this and I think you just might be smart enough to actually figure out why even though you'll never admit it.

yeah that wasnt the deal either.

 

[theGspot]

I think the one and done is okay, but it's spiraling out of control. We have kids leaving that have no shot at the first round of any NBA draft.
Now we are having kids come in for a couple of months of practice, then jumping (I know, I know, he hasn' jumped yet), but I'm not okay with UK being an NBA developmental team. This is still college. The John Wall's, AD's and KAT's, yeah, those guys HAVE to go, no doubt about it.
But could you imagine the run we would be on if we retained the players that jumped and fell in the water?
Nevertheless, I'm not good with the direction we are headed, we are turning into an NBA factory first type program.
I love Cal, love what he has done here, I disagree with some things, but, for the most part Cal has more than proven that he is always a step ahead. I just feel the NBA jumping has gotten out of control.

Every college team that brings in potential NBA players is essentially an NBA developmental team. They are after all developing this players to make it in the NBA. What's wrong with preparing them to play at a higher level?

We have kids coming in and practicing a couple months then jumping? It's happened once so far and as you said, " he hasn't jumped yet"

This is still college, you're correct! But what is the ultimate point if going to college?

I can imagine what kind of run we would be
on if our players stick around, it's very likely the same type of run we are currently on. For decades we had players return and a vast majority even stayed four years and got degrees. Guess what? We still only have 8 titles. Lots of other teams, KU, DUKE, UNC, Zona etc.. are able to get their players to stick around and they still don't win at any higher percentage than we do. Your's and several other definition of success is defined by national championships, but by your own standards we aren't a very successful program if that's the only measuring stick.

This is all very simple. The NBA pays and typically pays well. College doesn't and (unless you're at UNC) you have to attend classes, have restrictions on the amount of coaching you can receive each week and a lot of rules you have to follow from the NCAA. Money trumps all and that's just the world we live in. No one here is going to pass up millions, I can't imagine why anyone would expect a teenager who has worked his ass off to get in this position would either. Get over yourselves and what you want and accept that what the players want is far more important to them than you.

 

[BoxterS]

says the guy who is pissed he doesnt get a new t-shirt.

Every college team that brings in potential NBA players is essentially an NBA developmental team. They are after all developing this players to make it in the NBA. What's wrong with preparing them to play at a higher level?

We have kids coming in and practicing a couple months then jumping? It's happened once so far and as you said, " he hasn't jumped yet"

This is still college, you're correct! But what is the ultimate point if going to college?

I can imagine what kind of run we would be
on if our players stick around, it's very likely the same type of run we are currently on. For decades we had players return and a vast majority even stayed four years and got degrees. Guess what? We still only have 8 titles. Lots of other teams, KU, DUKE, UNC, Zona etc.. are able to get their players to stick around and they still don't win at any higher percentage than we do. Your's and several other definition of success is defined by national championships, but by your own standards we aren't a very successful program if that's the only measuring stick.

This is all very simple. The NBA pays and typically pays well. College doesn't and (unless you're at UNC) you have to attend classes, have restrictions on the amount of coaching you can receive each week and a lot of rules you have to follow from the NCAA. Money trumps all and that's just the world we live in. No one here is going to pass up millions, I can't imagine why anyone would expect a teenager who has worked his ass off to get in this position would either. Get over yourselves and what you want and accept that what the players want is far more important to them than you.

Brainwashed

 

[theGspot]

I'm just Brainwashed

We know!