I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic here or serious.
The Kentucky line was a generic throw in with no context. The Zion/Kansas text identifies specific parties, requesting identifiable impermissible benefits. It’s enough for me that if the name was Keldon Johnson I would say he needs to sit out until he has been thoroughly vetted relative to these allegations.
You're right, but it does seem worthy of investigation. Assistant and bag man are discussing that it will take housing/jobs to land Zion Williamson. Williamson goes to Duke, and now rumors are all over the place that Williamson's family is living in a ritzy Durham area neighborhood.
The NCAA would seem to have less credibility if they DON'T at least look into it.
^^^
True. But haven’t u heard? K says there is nothing to see n “his” program. I’m sure the ncaa is satisfied and has cleared them already. That’s just how duke rolls.
Again. I go back to duval. That kid would never have been immediately academically eligible anywhere n America. Nowhere. It wouldn’t have taken 5 minutes for the ncaa to look into——yet nothing. Kid plays. Duke benefits. Everyone else shut up and move along. Incredible really.
True. But haven’t u heard? K says there is nothing to see n “his” program. I’m sure the ncaa is satisfied and has cleared them already. That’s just how duke rolls.
Again. I go back to duval. That kid would never have been immediately academically eligible anywhere n America. Nowhere. It wouldn’t have taken 5 minutes for the ncaa to look into——yet nothing. Kid plays. Duke benefits. Everyone else shut up and move along. Incredible really.
Do NCAA and credibility even belong in the same sentence any more? They blew what little they had left over the UNC investigation.
Even though I agree that his position is selling the issue short, of course we would want Johnson to sit. This is Kentucky, they've already got enough If it was us.
The NCAA drags its feet per usual, K retires after going all in his last year which is this year, token penalties are dolled out in the future across the board, the NCAA unveils some pathetic new set of rules designed to reestablish whatever smidgen of relevance they can muster, sports media nominates K for sainthood.
Since Zion himself was asking for extra benefits I don't see how he could use that defense anyway.
They had even less than that when they punished Memphis and Derick Rose.
Absolutely. Duke should have already gotten out ahead of it, because the delay between this trial and the NCAA actually taking action from the results of it could cost them an entire season down the line.
Agree completely. I'm just not ready to decry the NCAA and yada yada over this. There's plenty of other reason to do so, but we have to keep it case-by-case and there's not enough here yet.
Over the next several months, there's going to be a lot of allegations and chatter and name dropping. If the sheer mention of something is a public conviction, we're going to have a lot of egg on our faces. A sports agency had Bam's name on the books as taking money. That's a lot more concrete than a text conversation about Zion. Start a poll and see what the folks here think about the two.
They punished Memphis because Rose refused to cooperate and they inconsistently applied strict liability. Memphis was aware there could be an eligibility issue and played Rose anyway, but the NCAA being wrong in 2007 isn't going to hold much water in 2018. Expecting any type of precedent or consistency is a waste of time.
No. He said ku needs to cheat to keep up with UK.
Schools have to cheat to keep up with what Cal does within the rules
No, they said adidas was going to help Kansas land recruits because that's how it works at Duke, UNC and Kentucky except with Nike.
In GonzoCat90's defense, there's mention of Bam and a loan. So, if this convo between the shoe rep and KU coach is enough to spur an investigation into dook then that should be enough to start an investigation into UK.
I don't think either will happen and its because there is not enough evidence. Conversations between a thrid-party and a KU coach isn't enough to get dook hammered, or even investigated.
I don't think either will happen and its because there is not enough evidence. Conversations between a thrid-party and a KU coach isn't enough to get dook hammered, or even investigated.
Actually, Bill Self, who is up to his neck in numerous shady recruitments of top players who Calipari did not recruit for reasons that seemed inexplicable, didn’t include Kentucky as a cheating program. He said Duke and North Carolina. Gassnola said “Kentucky too”.
You can wring your hands about that if you want but whoopdefriggindo.
Admittedly, I haven't read any of what you're talking about. That doesn't sound good, though. To be fair, that in a very general statement. Just hate that it has Kentucky in there. FWIW, I truly believe Kentucky is clean in all this. Cal can't take a shit without the NCAA knowing about it. I just don't see any way whatsoever Cal and Kentucky could possibly get away with any of this recruiting shenanigans. JMO.
I did. Starting with this:
That’s the only thing I’m responding to. I don’t think anyone here is saying that Duke and UNC should be investigated because they were mentioned in the text without specific allegations of wrongdoing. But Zion should be investigated based on the parts of the conversation about him seeking payment and other accommodations, and he happens to be at Duke.
And Kansas has no defense based on the texts.
I agree that we're probably as clean as anyone can be in this environment. I don't think that means spotless, but in the current climate, I'll take it.
What I'm referring to are texts between Self and Gassnola where Gassnola texts Self to thank him for his role in the KU contract extension with adidas.
Self says no problem and then they talk recruiting where Gassnola tells him that, in his mind, KU should be the top priority for adidas when buying recruits because that's good for business. Self says that's how it works at Duke and UNC.
Gassnola replies and adds Kentucky. I think that's flimsy and irrelevant. So I'm not ready to declare that the NCAA is letting Duke by with everything over similar texts about Zion.
There aren’t similar texts about Zion! There are specific violations alleged against Zion and his people in those texts (or wiretaps).
I agree. I just hope duke and ku both get hammered.
Dislike Forde and Thamel as much as the next guy, but at least they have the balls to write about it. Meanwhile at the mothership...
Gotcha.
I'm definitely not hand-wringing over it. I'm saying the opposite based on the credence I give to a random text conversation between untrustworthy people.
At least we can agree that among those untrustworthy people are there head coach and long time assistant at Kansas!
![[roll]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/roll.r191677.gif "roll [roll]")
That's what similar means.
The nature of the conversations is too different to expect an exact match.
A specific allegation of impropriety based on first hand knowledge is not similar to a general allegation of impropriety with no supporting evidence.
It’s the difference between saying “It was Colonel Mustard, in the study, with the pipe” and Colonel Mustard being like, “You know what? Professor Plum and Mrs. Peacock are also murderers.”
It is when neither provides any evidence. It's just conversation. He didn't even list dollar amounts.
Obviously one is more specific, but neither is any kind of concrete proof of anything. My point is that if we're going to take the Zion one as truth at face value then we can't dismiss people in the same circle and at the same school mentioning ours.
I think both require a lot more information. I don't place much value on either one. But yes, the Zion one is more useful and specific with regards to further investigation.
Of course both require a lot more information, but you could not even open an investigation based on a conclusory statement “Kentucky cheats”. You could based on “Zion Williamson asked me for jobs for his family, cash money, and living arrangements in exchange for his commitment.” Huge difference. Not similar.
Did the U6 penalties change your mind? I recall you making the case that the banners would stay.
That wasn't the exact exchange. Self said basically they need to do what it takes to keep up duke and UNC. Grassley said and Kentucky.
I think self meant money. And grassly meant competition for recruits.
We know through other testimony cheating schools were afraid to have their targets even take visits to UK. No mention of bidding or money, like in other instances.
I have scanned thru this thread and I am surprised the F&T raised the issue and took the stance they did.
I understand that we are talking about Duke and KU who operate by a different set of rules than most of the rest of college basketball
If Zion or de Sousa were at UK we would be sweating bullets about playing them and the truth be told the NCAA might or might not have already made the decision for us
Having said all of that Duke and KU are going to have to decide what they are going to do in pretty short order.do they play these guys or not? Does the NCAA make a ruling prior to the start of the season or do they remain silent? Do they(NCAA) investigate more,do they accept the information that has come out in court and make a ruling based on that information? Will both players be treated the same? This seems to be a more pressing issue than what to do about KU,UL and others because a new season and a new set of games are about to start.I would not want to begin play under a cloud,the NCAA can decide to punish or not punish what has already occurred at a later date than the next 3 weeks if they choose.
Everyone knows that rules were broken at multiple schools and with multiple players. I believe it is possible the NCAA could decide to give everyone a do over because....well it's the NCAA and they do crazy stuff for no good reason all the time.
The NCAA let UNC skate,they took down a banner at UL,they declared a kid ineligible at NC St for going to class,then reversed the decision.All of which took place in what, the last 12 to 18 months.
Has the trial closed or is there more information that might come out?
I understand that we are talking about Duke and KU who operate by a different set of rules than most of the rest of college basketball
If Zion or de Sousa were at UK we would be sweating bullets about playing them and the truth be told the NCAA might or might not have already made the decision for us
Having said all of that Duke and KU are going to have to decide what they are going to do in pretty short order.do they play these guys or not? Does the NCAA make a ruling prior to the start of the season or do they remain silent? Do they(NCAA) investigate more,do they accept the information that has come out in court and make a ruling based on that information? Will both players be treated the same? This seems to be a more pressing issue than what to do about KU,UL and others because a new season and a new set of games are about to start.I would not want to begin play under a cloud,the NCAA can decide to punish or not punish what has already occurred at a later date than the next 3 weeks if they choose.
Everyone knows that rules were broken at multiple schools and with multiple players. I believe it is possible the NCAA could decide to give everyone a do over because....well it's the NCAA and they do crazy stuff for no good reason all the time.
The NCAA let UNC skate,they took down a banner at UL,they declared a kid ineligible at NC St for going to class,then reversed the decision.All of which took place in what, the last 12 to 18 months.
Has the trial closed or is there more information that might come out?
Did it say Bam took money, specifically? That's a genuine question because my understanding was that an AAU coach may have taken money to try and steer him to NC State.
Didn't the NCAA clear Rose, and then retroactively declare him ineligible? I'm not sure there's a coach in America that would have sat him after he was cleared.
The NCAA would seem to have less credibility if they DON'T at least look into it.
Less credibility than Bagdad Bob? Dr. Ballsy Ford? A lawyer? A used car salesman? A politician?!?! There's levels of lack of credibility ya' know.
Ps. There's a secret Uncaa addendum that explains Duke, Uncheat, and Kansas are not subject to any actual rules. Or laws, for that matter.
Less credibility than Bagdad Bob? Dr. Ballsy Ford? A lawyer? A used car salesman? A politician?!?! There's levels of lack of credibility ya' know.
Ps. There's a secret Uncaa addendum that explains Duke, Uncheat, and Kansas are not subject to any actual rules. Or laws, for that matter.
Actually, there is alot more to investigate. You cant just suspend a kid based on hearsay. This is just a conversation of an assistant talking without context. Nobody knows the entire conversation. This all needs to be investigated thoroughly before any action is taken on any player.
I know I'm in the major minority here but just because he went to Duke doesn't mean he or his family were given anything. It just doesn't mean anything at the moment. Hear me out first, before you all year me a new ass! What if he committed to us? And we were recruiting him and wanting him the entire time. If I recall correctly, Cal went to see Zion the week of his announcement and probably more than once. So, he wanted him and wanted him badly. A huge blessing in disguise that he didnt come but that is another story. Anyway, what if he choose us? Knowing how Cal works and knowing what he offers to kids with his pitch, would we now say that Cal is dirty and that we paid Zion to come? Cause that's exactly what we are doing here with Puke. We've got to let the facts come out in this story.
Whether I, or anyone else, thinks he was paid by Puke is irrelevant, just completely irrelevant. Knowing Capel and his past, I believe he/his family was probably/likely given something. But again, that's irrelevant here. I'm strictly talking from a facts standpoint AT THE MOMENT. Thank God that in this country it takes a lot more than a hearsay conversation to prove guilt. An investigation definitely needs to be done here but they need more than just this to take his eligibility and until more evidence comes out, I'm not going to act like all those rival fans that called us cheaters for all these years since Cal got here. Cause that's exactly what we look like at this point in the process. It's not a good look for us.
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I, for one, have not claimed Duke paid anybody. But I do think there's enough evidence here to investigate his eligibility and declare him ineligible until the investigation is over.
That is my point here,there are questions about a few players who are still in college or just getting there.It would seem to me that a school would want an answer before said player takes the court. Yeah I know it is Duke and the rules are different(they really are it seems) but the Zion question coming in a court proceeding would have to raise a red flag for the NCAA.It seems they(NCAA) would need to address.
Call me crazy, but I think there is a decent chance we never see Zion Williamson play in a college basketball game.
The pope nor the president could force the NCAA to investigate Dook and that Rat Face Bastard !!
