Few is 0-6 as a 1-seed grabbing a title/Stats for other prominent coaches
- Thread starter Smashcat
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Mark Few turned Gonzaga from a regional school to a national program. Yeah he hasn’t won a title yet and he may never win one but what he’s done at Gonzaga is far more HoF worthy than either Calipari or Bill Self.
They play in that weak ass conference from January till the dance.That says alot in my opinion.
They have had some really good teams but you have to get tested weekly against good competition and then it sometimes isnt enough.
They have had some really good teams but you have to get tested weekly against good competition and then it sometimes isnt enough.
I would argue what Cal did at UMass is just as impressive as what any coach has done anywhere. Pitino at Providence. Calhoun at UConn. Few at Gonzaga.
But I’m going to go out on a limb and say the way Mark Few has done it will show to be far more sustainable than UMass.
Few is a very good coach. And created something huge, a perennial power. BUT, to go one step further will be difficult when they rarely play anyone Jan through mid-March.
I am surprised he has not started scheduling 2-3 Power 5 games in Jan & Feb for his teams, just to keep them fresh for the competition a competitive team provides.
I am surprised he has not started scheduling 2-3 Power 5 games in Jan & Feb for his teams, just to keep them fresh for the competition a competitive team provides.
I would say he needs to strengthen his schedule a bit so his team is prepared to play the better competition come tournament time.
Few has done it over a long period much like Calhoun did at UConn.
Few may or may not ever win a title but he has taken Gonzaga to the upper tier.To damn bad they dont have football.they would fit right in at the Pac12.Better competition anyway.
Even if they had football the PAC 12 wouldn’t take them. The Cal schools want no part of a private religious school. It’s why BYU never even got a sniff.
The perfect place for them is the Big East but it’s just not economically feasible.
That I agree with. I think Gonzaga will look to sustain where they are by getting a good coach to replace Few when he retires.
I wondered why BYU was never looked at by the Pac12.I mean they took Utah but I just thought from a football standpoint,BYU was far superior.
He may not take the criticism you might think, some people still just don't want to apply the term "elite program" to a school named Gonzaga, but the reality is they are one of the sports elite programs right now. (certainly not all time, that goes without saying) but he's had them in 2 National Championship games in the last three seasons. (I'm not counting 2020 since no one had a post-season) He gets them to # 1 National rankings and despite that conference they're in that people want to bag on, Few usually plays a lot of the big name schools in the regular season.
With that said, he will end up assuming that stat of "Best program without a title." or "Best Coach without a title"
With that said, he will end up assuming that stat of "Best program without a title." or "Best Coach without a title"
The fact Few can get Gonzaga to a #1 seed is impressive in of itself.
The criticism of Cal is mainly because our offense doesn’t look like it should, we went 9-16 or whatever it was last year, and we just lost to a 15 seed. Not because he’s on the same average title pace as we may expect here. We also seem to be struggling to recruit for next year and beyond to the level we once did. We likely have a single elite recruit coming in and another one that’s pretty good. If the players we expect to leave do in fact leave, it looks as of now the roster will not have the talent it needs to have.
They should not have been a 1 seed. He has tricked the committee into thinking a 3 loss Gonzaga should be the number 1 overall instead of a Power 5 team with more losses. It used to be if Gonzaga lost more than 1 game they would drop them to a 2. They get more respect now...for playing in the same middle school conference as always.
Sorry, had to chime in on this one.
You're saying California purposely ignores schools wanting to enter the Pac-12 solely because they are private and religious? Where did they specifically cite this as the reason for not having them (BYU as the example), or is this your made up theory?
And our opinions on Few are vastly different (note how I'm not saying you're "wrong", just that we have differing opinions - trying to prevent a confrontation around here, which is easy to do without much effort!). IMO, he's an average coach that took 20+ years to get Gonzaga where it is today, who plays in a cheeseball conference and gets rewarded with an overseeding every year. Someone yesterday posted their "path" to the two finals they've made - they were like the rivers parted for Moses. He does deserve credit for what he's done for Gonzaga, but then that's where the praise ends - sprinkle in a few tougher P5 teams Jan-March and then we'll see how that goes.
The Twitter poster, to me, is accurate - 0/6 as a 1 seed is pretty crappy given all the hype he/they get each year from the media. Hell, 1/5 for Cal is crappy, and I'm surprised to see 2/10 for K given how everyone (mostly media) thinks he is the game's best coach.
Let's just put it this way - if they were talking about Calipari instead of Few, you'd be all over it frothing from the mouth like a rabid dog ready to pounce (and there are examples this week of exactly that scenario). But somehow Few gets a pass....interesting how poisoned our fan base has become with this idea that our coach blows donkey crotch (he does need to fix some shit and do it quickly), but other coaches with similar or worse credentials are showered with praise with all sorts of justifications and deflections from their glaring failures.
DISCLAIMER: This is not an "UP CAL'S ASS" defense post. It is a comparison of how illogical we look by showering praise on one coach for performance data that they would never praise if it were Calipari's.
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Okay bub. Believe what you want. But it’s well known in circles that schools like Stanford and Berkeley would vote against a Gonzaga being in the Pac12. Just like they’ve mixed BYU over the years.
Okay who should have been a 1 seed? certainly not Baylor imo, but the Bears were super glued to the 1 seed line with none of the injuries ever taken into account. So not Gonzaga, not Baylor, not Duke, who should have had a top seed? Kansas and.....
Impressive perhaps based on how he's figured out how to game the metrics by front loading a few P5 teams early in the season (before they've hit their strides), then skating it out in the WCC.
I'm not taking away from Few's building Gonzaga to where they are - I'll give him that. And he appears to be a decent Xs/Os coach. I guess I'm beating more on the media for hyping them every year only to see them go down, regularly, in March. I suppose it's best to frame this as "poor Few and Gonzaga - getting overseeded makes them the victim of being the media darling" rather than saying Few is just not as amazing as people make him out to be.
I don't believe anything because I don't know anything about why the PAC-12 won't accept those schools. That's why I asked you - is it really because they're private and religious, or was that just your theory?
We all know about the football part, but BYU has all of that, so why not let them in? Especially a state that's as "liberal" (trying to avoid politics here because I hate politics) as California. Surely there are other tangible, logical reasons to deny their entry?
Mark Few took what is essentially the Bellarmine of Washington and built them into a top basketball program and brand.
Give Mark Few a Jay Hawk or BBN and Joe Craft...put him in the eastern time zone in a Tobacco road area school where people consume basketball and the sports media bias leans/fawns over him and his program...and see what he does...
The fact a Kentucky Sports guy is talking Gonzaga basketball is all you need to know.
Nowhere in Washington is anyone talking basketball...most of the Pacific and Mountain Northwest region couldn't tell you a damn thing about Gonzaga, where it is, or what they do...same goes for any basketball or football programs...not their lifestyle nor concern out there...
Duke and Kentucky fans can tell you more about Zag ball, players, recruits, alum in the league...
Mark Few would be John Wooden pretty much anywhere else.
Give Mark Few a Jay Hawk or BBN and Joe Craft...put him in the eastern time zone in a Tobacco road area school where people consume basketball and the sports media bias leans/fawns over him and his program...and see what he does...
The fact a Kentucky Sports guy is talking Gonzaga basketball is all you need to know.
Nowhere in Washington is anyone talking basketball...most of the Pacific and Mountain Northwest region couldn't tell you a damn thing about Gonzaga, where it is, or what they do...same goes for any basketball or football programs...not their lifestyle nor concern out there...
Duke and Kentucky fans can tell you more about Zag ball, players, recruits, alum in the league...
Mark Few would be John Wooden pretty much anywhere else.
Yes. More the religious part than the private part. BYU has been trying to get into the PAC 12 for decades. I don’t know how much you know about BYU but suffice it to say the Cali schools don’t want to be associated with any of that nonsense. Which is why they took Utah.
Are they actually a perennial power? or just a team that gets 30 wins in the WCC and then bows out at the 1st sign of adversity in the tournament? Like when a team like Murray State from a comparable conference has a 30 win season they get a 7-Seed. Why do people treat Gonzaga different?
Gonzaga’s rise reminds me of UConn more than anything. Uconn wasn’t jack before Calhoun got there. Of course UConn is in a much much better league but outside of that...
When Few leaves Gonzaga will be in a similar type of situation so look out for a bonehead hire that magically leads to a championship run.
When Few leaves Gonzaga will be in a similar type of situation so look out for a bonehead hire that magically leads to a championship run.
I know that BYU is Mormon, but that's about as far as I go with knowing much about them.
But still, I'd be surprised if it was public knowledge that the sole reason the PAC-12 has denied BYU is because of their religion. Definitely not due to being private because Stanford is also a private institution.
I always thought BYU was a natural fit for the Pac12.
They took Utah and Colorado at expansion but really should have took BYU.
BYU and to a lesser extent Gonzaga are very conservative schools. BYU has some batshit policies relating to student life.
There are places you can go on the Internet and talk to folks about this. People informed on it. There’s been some good discussions about it on R/CFB over the years.
It’s like an open secret on how the Cali schools view religious schools and how they don’t want them in the pac 12. And they hold the power.
I only count five one seeds.
Gonzaga is good. The fact that they are a WCC school and can consistently get to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 is pretty good. But they're like Notre Dame football. they cannot beat other elite teams.
Gonzaga only had one win over a team seeded higher than a 4 seed since 2000 (No. 3 seed Utah in 2016 when Gonzaga was an 11), which was Few's first year. That is crazy to me.
These are Mark's best postseason runs and who they beat during that time. Keep in mind, Dan Monson was the head coach when Gonzaga burst onto the scene in 1999 and then left for Minnesota.
2015- Elite 8- 15, 7, 11 and lost to No. 1 Duke
2017- Runner-up- 16, 8, 4, 11, 7 and lost to No. 1 UNC
2019- Elite 8- 16, 9, 4, and lost to No. 3 Texas Tech
2021- Runner-up- 16, 8, 5, 6, 11, and lost to No. 1 Baylor
Their best seeds are as follows
2004- No. 2 seed Lost in 2nd rd Nevada
2005- No. 3 seed Lost in 2nd rd Texas Tech
2006- No. 3 seed Lost in Sweet 16 UCLA
2013- No. 1 seed Lost in 2nd rd Wichita State
2015- No. 2 seed Lost in Elite 8 Duke
2017- No. 1 seed Lost in National Championship UNC
2019-No. 1 seed Lost in Elite 8 Texas Tech
2021- No. 1 seed Lost in National Championship Baylor
2022- No. 1 seed Lost in Sweet 16 Arkansas
So if Gonzaga plays a 4 seed or below, they win. If they play anyone who is on the 1-3 seed lines, they lose. So basically Gonzaga's success requires busted brackets to avoid good teams but eventually you usually have to play a good team in the national championship and they lose.
Gonzaga is good. The fact that they are a WCC school and can consistently get to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 is pretty good. But they're like Notre Dame football. they cannot beat other elite teams.
Gonzaga only had one win over a team seeded higher than a 4 seed since 2000 (No. 3 seed Utah in 2016 when Gonzaga was an 11), which was Few's first year. That is crazy to me.
These are Mark's best postseason runs and who they beat during that time. Keep in mind, Dan Monson was the head coach when Gonzaga burst onto the scene in 1999 and then left for Minnesota.
2015- Elite 8- 15, 7, 11 and lost to No. 1 Duke
2017- Runner-up- 16, 8, 4, 11, 7 and lost to No. 1 UNC
2019- Elite 8- 16, 9, 4, and lost to No. 3 Texas Tech
2021- Runner-up- 16, 8, 5, 6, 11, and lost to No. 1 Baylor
Their best seeds are as follows
2004- No. 2 seed Lost in 2nd rd Nevada
2005- No. 3 seed Lost in 2nd rd Texas Tech
2006- No. 3 seed Lost in Sweet 16 UCLA
2013- No. 1 seed Lost in 2nd rd Wichita State
2015- No. 2 seed Lost in Elite 8 Duke
2017- No. 1 seed Lost in National Championship UNC
2019-No. 1 seed Lost in Elite 8 Texas Tech
2021- No. 1 seed Lost in National Championship Baylor
2022- No. 1 seed Lost in Sweet 16 Arkansas
So if Gonzaga plays a 4 seed or below, they win. If they play anyone who is on the 1-3 seed lines, they lose. So basically Gonzaga's success requires busted brackets to avoid good teams but eventually you usually have to play a good team in the national championship and they lose.
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BYU suspended their second best player in the 2011 NCAA tourney run because he had sex.
Did a quick Google search and you appear to be onto something, but it seems to be more around their religiosity prevents them from playing on a Sunday (per a Bleacher Report opinion piece). This makes no sense because all NCAA games are on a Thursday night or Saturday as far as I know.
To me....the major difference and the major point is....Few is at Gonzaga, a school nobody knew existed a before the turn of the century in reality.
Cal is at UK. The top of the heap.
To me his teams performance in the tourney the last 4 years debunks this. 2 FF's and 2 title games. At freaking Gonzaga. Come on. That's a lot better than some guy at a true Blue Blood program in the same time frame.
I believe it. PAC 12 is SJW central. No way they want BYU or Gonzaga because of their core beliefs and policies.
Dude...what has happened....you're a really smart guy....in this woke nation now....appearance is everything now....you know this would be an issue for most PAC 12 schools if not all of them
I did a quick search and did find some opinion pieces around the exclusion of BYU from the PAC-12. Didn't make any sense - the "because they won't play on Sundays due to their Mormon religious beliefs". Bizarre given all NCAA football games are played on Saturdays and the occasional Thursday night.
But……do they deserve their one seeds? Why do they get a one seed after beating a couple decent teams in November and December? They play nobody for almost 3 months. SOS is always in the 100s. Over half their games were against quad 4 teams..,,QUAD 4!!!!!!!
People won’t learn their lesson though. The same nonsense will be spouted all season next year too.
They NEVER beat a high seed in the tourney. Overrated every. Single. Season.
Re BYU this has been going on for a lot longer than that. It’s not some new development in the last few years.
The Big 12 is accommodating all of BYU’s programs to not play on Sunday’s like Baseball for instance. Two reasons: They were desperate and they don’t have the hang ups about private religious schools the PAC 12 does.
I still think Arizona should have been . Actually, I had zero problems with any of the 1 seed choices.
Looked at Gonzaga's OOC for this year.
-Beat UCLA by 20
-Beat Texas Tech by 14
-Lost to Duke by 3.
-Lost to Alabama by 9
-Beat Texas by 12
-Their game with Washington was canceled. (I'm assuming a COVID issue)
I think they should see if Arizona would slide into an OOC February date every year since once the Zags are in league play the difficulty level drops near the bottom.
-Beat UCLA by 20
-Beat Texas Tech by 14
-Lost to Duke by 3.
-Lost to Alabama by 9
-Beat Texas by 12
-Their game with Washington was canceled. (I'm assuming a COVID issue)
I think they should see if Arizona would slide into an OOC February date every year since once the Zags are in league play the difficulty level drops near the bottom.
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