All Time MLB Draft Cowtown Cat vs. DraftCat

[DraftCat]

This is Round 1 of an All-Time MLB Draft. 8 Position players... 4 Starting Pitchers.. 1 Closer (No Bench)

Objective: Head 2 Head which team wins in a best of 7 (World Series)

Rules
1. Babe Ruth and Shohei Ohtani can only be used as either a pitcher or position player.
2. Arguments are based on career averages (No 1 year wonders)
3. Two Days of voting you will be allowed to change your pick and your pick is public.

Link to Playoffs click here



@Cowtown Cat - Barry Bonds, Honus Wagner, Bob Gibson, Roberto Clemente, Robin Yount, Rod Carew, Carlton Fisk, Brooks Robinson, Whitey Ford, Paul Molitor, Goose Gossage, Madison Bumgarner, Jack Morris


vs.


@DraftCat - Ken Griffey Jr, Stan Musial, Joe Morgan, Eddie Mathews, Carl Yastrzemski, Al Kaline, Gary Carter, Luke Appling, Curt Schilling, Carl Hubbell, Gaylord Perry, Kid Nichols, Jonathan Papelbon

 

[DraftCat]

My Line up Card

1. Joe Morgan - 2nd Base
2. Carl Yastrzemski - Left Field
3. Ken Griffey Jr - Center Field
4. Stan Musial - 1st Base
5. Al Kaline - Right Field
6. Eddie Mathews - 3rd Base
7. Luke Appling - Shortstop
8. Gary Carter - Catcher


Pitchers (World Series Format)

1. Curt Schilling G1 and G5
2. Carl Hubbell G2 and G6
3. Gayord Perry G3 and G7
4. Kid Nichols G4

Closer - Jonathan Papelbon


Quick Facts on my team

• 3,105 Total Homeruns
• 27 Gold Gloves in the Outfield
• 368 Saves by Papelbon

 

[JLoad22]

This is Round 1 of an All-Time MLB Draft. 8 Position players... 4 Starting Pitchers.. 1 Closer (No Bench)

Objective: Head 2 Head which team wins in a best of 7 (World Series)

Rules
1. Babe Ruth and Shohei Ohtani can only be used as either a pitcher or position player.
2. Arguments are based on career averages (No 1 year wonders)
3. Two Days of voting you will be allowed to change your pick and your pick is public.

Link to Playoffs click here



@Cowtown Cat - Barry Bonds, Honus Wagner, Bob Gibson, Roberto Clemente, Robin Yount, Rod Carew, Carlton Fisk, Brooks Robinson, Whitey Ford, Paul Molitor, Goose Gossage, Madison Bumgarner, Jack Morris


vs.


@DraftCat - Ken Griffey Jr, Stan Musial, Joe Morgan, Eddie Mathews, Carl Yastrzemski, Al Kaline, Gary Carter, Luke Appling, Curt Schilling, Carl Hubbell, Gaylord Perry, Kid Nichols, Jonathan Papelbon

Heavyweight bout.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Lineup:

Rod Carew - 2B
Honus Wagner - SS
Roberto Clemente - RF
Barry Bonds - LF
Robin Yount - CF
Paul Molitor - 1B
Brooks Robinson - 3B
Carlton Fisk - C

Rotation:

Bob Gibson - Game 1 & 5
Whitey Ford - Game 2 & 6
Jack Morris - Game 3 & 7
Madison Bumgarner - Game 4

Closer:

Goose Gossage

Feel like my pitching staff is really, really good and is one of the best strengths of my team. Especially in a 7 game playoff series. All these dudes are absolute nails in the playoffs. My starters have won 15 World Series titles between them. Then my closer has 1 World Series title.

 

[Jsngabbard]

Your Pittsburgh Pirates middle of the lineup is what got my vote, they’re trying to bring back the lumber company now a days

 

[JonathanW]

I went with Cowtown, and not because he has 2 of my Brewers. Hitting and defense was close. I liked his rotation better. DC has the better closer.

 

[DraftCat]

Must be my pitching staff cause I’m putting up some runs

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Must be my pitching staff cause I’m putting up some runs

My staff is elite.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I went with Cowtown, and not because he has 2 of my Brewers. Hitting and defense was close. I liked his rotation better. DC has the better closer.

I really like Papelbon. I was actually down between him and Gossage. Gossage wasn’t a slouch. He’s a HOFer with 310 saves.

 

[drcats2013]

This is very close. I cannot vote at this time. Need to hear an argument from Norse

 

[Cowtown Cat]

This is very close. I cannot vote at this time. Need to hear an argument from Norse

My team is balanced. I have a lot of 5 tool players. I also have a dominant postseason pitching staff.

 

[DraftCat]

This is very close. I cannot vote at this time. Need to hear an argument from Norse

Not sure 12-3 is considered close by the voters. I guess this board doesn't like offense as much as they claim to during basketball season

It's because I picked 3 no-name pitchers that they never heard of. But easily rivals the other pitching staffs if they looked them up.

 

[drcats2013]

Not sure 12-3 is considered close by the voters. I guess this board doesn't like offense as much as they claim to during basketball season

It's because I picked 3 no-name pitchers that they never heard of. But easily rivals the other pitching staffs if they looked them up.

Respectfully, it’s close to me. His lineup is very good, too. Yours is better, but I’ll take his pitching. I’ve also heard of all of your pitchers. Curt Schilling, while amazing, is a pretty bad head of the rotation in this all time draft.

Gaylord Perry is far enough over Jack Morris at the 3 spot in the rotation I’m gonna have to go with you without a counter. This has legitimately been my toughest one; and much closer than the voting dictates. I think Schilling was just a mistake for the head of the rotation. I’d take Gaylord over him and he’s your third

 

[DraftCat]

Respectfully, it’s close to me. His lineup is very good, too. Yours is better, but I’ll take his pitching. I’ve also heard of all of your pitchers. Curt Schilling, while amazing, is a pretty bad head of the rotation in this all time draft.

Gaylord Perry is far enough over Jack Morris at the 3 spot in the rotation I’m gonna have to go with you without a counter. This has legitimately been my toughest one; and much closer than the voting dictates. I think Schilling was just a mistake for the head of the rotation. I’d take Gaylord over him and he’s your third

I mean Curt is a 3X World Series winner and went 2-0 (MVP) with Boston. I think it's fair to say he was up for the challenge. I can't argue with my pitching staff being the less of others it was my strategy going in to go for all hitters.

I went Greg Maddox, Randy Johnson, Lefty Grove in my last draft and didn't win it all either so tried a different approach.

This was my last team and lost to the eventual champ

@UKNorse - Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Lefty Groves, Mike Schmidt, Carl Yastrzemski, Ozzie Smith, Mookie Betts, Larry Walker, Todd Helton, Andruw Jones, Jeff Kent, Luke Appling, Joe Torre, Gerrit Cole, Josh Hader, Roger Maris

 

[drcats2013]

I mean Curt is a 3X World Series winner and went 2-0 (MVP) with Boston. I think it's fair to say he was up for the challenge. I can't argue with my pitching staff being the less of others it was my strategy going in to go for all hitters.

I went Greg Maddox, Randy Johnson, Lefty Grove in my last draft and didn't win it all either so tried a different approach.

This was my last team and lost to the eventual champ

@UKNorse - Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Lefty Groves, Mike Schmidt, Carl Yastrzemski, Ozzie Smith, Mookie Betts, Larry Walker, Todd Helton, Andruw Jones, Jeff Kent, Luke Appling, Joe Torre, Gerrit Cole, Josh Hader, Roger Maris

It’s hard to go one way and win in these. I tried to do a balanced approach, but probably won’t win either. I think it’s more of a favorite player contest than anything.

 

[JonathanW]

Not sure 12-3 is considered close by the voters. I guess this board doesn't like offense as much as they claim to during basketball season

It's because I picked 3 no-name pitchers that they never heard of. But easily rivals the other pitching staffs if they looked them up.

I thought the offense was pretty close to even.

And I admit I had not heard of Nichols. But your other 3 SP, I would think any baseball fan would know who they are.

To me this was a tough one to pick. Very close.

 

[DraftCat]

Honest question I keep seeing that our offenses are similar but I don't see it at all?

My team combined has over 3000 HR's all time. I realize that homeruns are not everything but I'm seriously questioning how it's "close"

I'd be shi***** bricks throwing it anywhere near the strike zone against my offense. The amount of walks, hits, HR's should easily result in 7+ runs a game.

If his team isn't hitting HR's then what are they going to hit? I have 27 gold gloves in my outfield plenty of ground to cover to get to would be doubles.

Really think the voting on this one should be much closer or swung my way.

 

[JonathanW]

To me, this one was close.

I'm thinking I shouldn't make a case for either team (I know I already have in 1 of these matchups), and let each owner make their own case for their team.

But I will say that my interpretation of this competition is to treat it like a "series", with 5 or 7 game series.
So in that case, I don't think looking at career stats is the best way to evaluate how good a player was (Rose isn't going to get more ABs than any other #2 hitter unless his team is scoring more runs). Where that might have someone like Phil Neikro way better than Sandy Koufax (neither are in this matchup). Then the question becomes, so what is the best way to evaluate players? In my career I analyze data, to answer questions (i.e. "does drug A improve a patients ability to _____"), and there are often multiple ways to do that, and may not be obvious which way is best.

Here are some of the ways I think you could compare players:
- career totals (longevity is a part of being a HOF player, but how important is it?)
- career averages, i.e. per162games for career totals (this looks at ones entire career, standardizing it to make a more apples to apples comparison so that A didn't steal 2x more bases than B because he played in 2x more games; BUT it also penalizes the guys with longevity because players aren't as good at the end of their careers)
- best single year (it does answer, like a golfer's handicap, on your best day how good can you be. But there have been lots of one-year-wonders in the 100+ years of MLB.)
- best X years (same as best single year, except the more years you add the less of a "fluke" it was)
- continuous X years (again, the more years X is, the better. But making it continuous rather than "best" years, takes into account down years; but on the other hand injury years can really hurt you here. And some guys were great for 5 years and some for 15 years. So how many years should X be?)
- continuous "prime years" (where prime years is from when you became good until you were no longer one of the best, so for some guys this will be longer than others. And if use this one, I think you also need to consider the duration, it's more impressive if you were the best of the best for 15 of 20 years than if you were for 10 of 20 years)

Personally I prefer one of the last 3 methods, And while I don't want to count an injury year against a guy, if he's more likely to get hurt maybe that should be a factor. But I don't care to count the years of a guy just hanging on; for something like this I'm only interested when you were at least one of the best players on your own team.

Another factor is the era (not ERA). For example, you have to drop all the way to 22nd among career batting averages to find a player (Gwynn) who started his career after WW2 started over 80 years ago. Only 4 of the top 60, and one of those started during WW2. So for the best of the best, batting averages were inflated back then. So Ruth's .342 average may not be much more impressive than Aaron's .305 average during an era when pitchers dominated.

Then also, different people value pitching, hitting, defense at different levels to each other.

 

[JonathanW]

Honest question I keep seeing that our offenses are similar but I don't see it at all?

My team combined has over 3000 HR's all time. I realize that homeruns are not everything but I'm seriously questioning how it's "close"

I'd be shi***** bricks throwing it anywhere near the strike zone against my offense. The amount of walks, hits, HR's should easily result in 7+ runs a game.

If his team isn't hitting HR's then what are they going to hit? I have 27 gold gloves in my outfield plenty of ground to cover to get to would be doubles.

Really think the voting on this one should be much closer or swung my way.

I will add, Griffey may be the player who did not ever play on a team I liked, that I liked (the player) the most ever.

 

[DraftCat]

Anyone else have some thoughts on the matchup.

 

[DraftCat]

Bump 15-7 can I find 9 votes LOL

 

[DraftCat]

Getting closer 15-8 LOL need a wild come back here in the next 2 hours

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Anyone else have some thoughts on the matchup.

Yes, I don't get the disparity in votes. I'd much rather have KGJ over Bonds any day. I neither like nor appreciate the numbers put up by juicers. After Bonds, someone would need to explain why they like Cowtown so much.

If I go position by position I get this:

1st- Draftcat by miles
2nd- Draftcat
3rd- Cowtown (mainly for defense)
SS- Cowtown (very close. I'm not a fan of the deadball era or the stats players made then)
C- Cowtown
Lf- Draftcat (Again, I hate cheaters)
Cf- Draftcat by 100 miles
Rf- Cowtown

Pitcher- Cowtown (Gibson over Schilling) - the other pitchers are a toss up to me.


If anything, this vote should be really close. I'd give it to Draftcat by a neck.

 

[DraftCat]

Yes, I don't get the disparity in votes. I'd much rather have KGJ over Bonds any day. I neither like nor appreciate the numbers put up by juicers. After Bonds, someone would need to explain why they like Cowtown so much.

If I go position by position I get this:

1st- Draftcat by miles
2nd- Draftcat
3rd- Cowtown (mainly for defense)
SS- Cowtown (very close. I'm not a fan of the deadball era or the stats players made then)
C- Cowtown
Lf- Draftcat (Again, I hate cheaters)
Cf- Draftcat by 100 miles
Rf- Cowtown

Pitcher- Cowtown (Gibson over Schilling)


If anything, this vote should be really close. I'd give it to Draftcat by a neck.

Appreciate your assessment - it's getting closer but with 1 hour left not sure I can make up 5 votes!

But definitly was lopsided in the beginning its narrows a bit