MLB-All Time Draft Finals Cowtown Cat vs. drcats2013

[DraftCat]

Welcome to the Finals of the All-Time MLB Draft. 8 Position players... 4 Starting Pitchers.. 1 Closer (No Bench)

Objective: Head 2 Head which team wins in a best of 7 (World Series)

Rules
1. Babe Ruth and Shohei Ohtani can only be used as either a pitcher or position player.
2. Arguments are based on career averages (No 1 year wonders)
3. Two Days of voting you will be allowed to change your pick and your pick is public.

Link to Playoffs click here


@Cowtown Cat - Barry Bonds, Honus Wagner, Bob Gibson, Roberto Clemente, Robin Yount, Rod Carew, Carlton Fisk, Brooks Robinson, Whitey Ford, Paul Molitor, Goose Gossage, Madison Bumgarner, Jack Morris



vs.


@drcats2013 - Babe Ruth, Walter Johnson, Tom Seaver, Derek Jeter, Frank Thomas, Ivan Rodriguez, Ryne Sandberg, Vlad Guerrero, Kirby Puckett, Billy Wagner, Juan Marichal, Hal Newhouser, Ron Santo

 

[DraftCat]

Congrats you two on making the finals... may the best team win!

 

[drcats2013]

1. Derrick Jeter
2. Vlad Guerrero
3. Babe Ruth
4. Frank Thomas
5. Ivan Rodriguez
6. Kirby Puckett
7. Ryne Sandberg
8. Ron Santo

1. Walter Johnson
2. Tom Seaver
3. Juan Marichal
4. Hal Newhouser

Closer- Billy Wagner

I’ll do my team comparisons in a bit

 

[JonathanW]

Hitting looks pretty close. Pitching not so much.

Comparing by positions (a lot of these were very close!):
Molitor<< Thomas
Carew = Sandberg
Wagner > Jeter
Robinson > Santo
pudge 1 < pudge 2
(again swapping LF/RF to make more fair comparison)
Bonds = Ruth
Yount = Puckett
Clemente = Vlad

Gibson < Train (Gibson did pitch in a pitcher's era, Train in a high average but very very low power era, this is really close)
Ford < Seaver (another close one)
Bumgarner < Marichal (2 Giant greats, more hitting when Bumgarner pitched, but Marichal was better longer also)
Morris < Newhouser
Gossage = Wagner (stats alone point to Wagner, but it was IMO much easier to come in for 3 outs than the 4-6 outs that Gossage would do)

or going by batting order, with what I remember of cowtown's order:
1-2: Wagner & Carew = Jeter & Vlad (Wagner & Carew get on base a little more, but Vlad adds power)
3-4-5: Clemente & Bonds & Yount vs Ruth & Thomas & I-Rod (more pop and better average from Ruth & gang)
6-7-8: Molitor & Fisk & Robinson = Puckett & Sandberg & Santo (I might have barely given it to Molitor+, but Sandberg's speed tied it up)

Even defense is pretty close. Robinson, Bonds, Yount vs Sandberg, I-Rod, Puckett, but I give the team without both Thomas and Ruth in the field the advantage there.

This one goes 7 games, with a walk-off HR by Vlad hitting a heater 6" over his head by Gossage.

 

[drcats2013]

C- Ivan Rodriguez > Carlton Fisk- Fisk was great but not on Pudges level in any capacity.

1B - Frank Thomas > Paul Molitor - his average is slightly worse due to injuries, but he leads in basically every other area, and has 2 MVPs to his name.

2B - Ryne Sandburg < Rod Carew- he has me here.

SS - Derek Jeter = Honus Wagner - Wagner has the stats, but based on eras I think this is very close with all of Jetera accomplishments

3B - Ron Santo < Brooks Robinson

LF - Vlad Guerrero < Barry Bonds

CF Kirby Puckett < Robin Yount

RF - Babe Ruth > Roberto Clemente

I give my opponent a very slight edge if I’m being honest offensively, but when it comes to pitching, I run away with it.

SP - Walter Johnson > Bob Gibson
SP - Tom Seaver >> Madison Bumgardner
SP - Juan Marichal >> Jack Morris
SP - Hal Newhouser < Whitey Ford
C - Billy Wagner > Goose Gossage

I did the comparisons based on how he had them in the last thread, but Seaver would be over Whitey regardless.

Batting is close, though I concede an edge to him, but pitching is me by a landslide, and would lead me to a victory in this matchup.

 

[Blueheart32]

Wow, this would be a fun series to watch. Great hitting and pitching on both sides. I believe drcats "eeks" it out on pitching

 

[drcats2013]

I would be interested to hear from some of those voting for the other team. Just curious where they see them winning with my pitching

 

[drcats2013]

@BigBlueFanGA @Dontworryboutit23 @JHannibalSmith @jcrow10 @GuyFromKY

Love to see some votes from our other contestants, regardless of who they select!

 

[Dontworryboutit23]

I went @drcats2013 i though his team was more balanced and the pitching edge would win it for him. But the series would definitely go 6 or 7 games

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Lineup:

2B - Rod Carew
SS - Honus Wagner
RF - Roberto Clemente
LF - Barry Bonds
1B - Paul Molitor
CF - Robin Yount
3B - Brooks Robinson
C - Carlton Fisk

 

[jcrow10]

Had to vote for Cowtown just because I hate Jeter.

 

[KentuckyCat420]

My 2 favorite players of all time, Barry Bonds and Ivan Rodriguez.

Proud to see them both in the Finaks, but Bonds deserves his damn ring.

Gotta roll with CowtownCat.

 

[drcats2013]

Shew, I’d love to hear how this team wins against my pitching. Just not seeing it.

 

[JonathanW]

Shew, I’d love to hear how this team wins against my pitching. Just not seeing it.

I don’t either. Hitting is close whichever way someone thinks. But pitching isn’t close.
I had just assumed Cowtown had opened several accounts to stuff the voting.

 

[drcats2013]

I don’t either. Hitting is close whichever way someone thinks. But pitching isn’t close.
I had just assumed Cowtown had opened several accounts to stuff the voting.

Cowtown is a great dude. Well liked and has a good looking lady. Think that helps quite a bit lol

 

[JonathanW]

Had to vote for Cowtown just because I hate Jeter.

Yount is one of my 2 favorites all-time, and I hate Jeter too, but voted the other team

 

[drcats2013]

Had to vote for Cowtown just because I hate Jeter.

Pretty bad reason if the other team is better lol

 

[Cowtown Cat]

My pitching staff is pretty good as far as regular season performance. However, it’s very good in terms of playoff performance. Playoff and regular season pitching are two totally different things.

Madison Bumgarner was one of the most dominating postseason pitchers I have ever seen, period. In particular, in the World Series. Dude was literally damn near unhittable for 2/3 postseasons.

Jack Morris elevated his game tremendously during the playoffs and World Series. He’s probably top 5, easily top 10, most clutch postseason starting pitchers since the 1980s.

 

[drcats2013]

Congrats @Cowtown Cat

 

[JHannibalSmith]

Sorry y’all, I tried to vote several times yesterday, but, I had no internet service & couldn’t stay connected long enough to do it. Spent Friday & Saturday at a cabin in the country & had to drive 20 min to get any type of service. Congrats to both of you for making it, especially @Cowtown Cat for winning a very close final.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

Shew, I’d love to hear how this team wins against my pitching. Just not seeing it.

I'm telling you, players like Ruth and Bonds get lazy votes. I'd prefer, for future drafts, that the top 2-3 players are excluded.

They skew the game too much.

 

[DraftCat]

I'm telling you, players like Ruth and Bonds get lazy votes. I'd prefer, for future drafts, that the top 2-3 players are excluded.

They skew the game too much.

My favorite is when you get a comment such as "so and so had two of my favorite players they get my vote"

Unfortunately in baseball drafts it's a much more research driven sport and you can't perceive who the best team like in basketball off name alone.

Voting doesn't do well in these drafts IMO

 

[JHannibalSmith]

My favorite is when you get a comment such as "so and so had two of my favorite players they get my vote"

Unfortunately in baseball drafts it's a much more research driven sport and you can't perceive who the best team like in basketball off name alone.

Voting doesn't do well in these drafts IMO

I’ve never liked the voting aspect, but, it’s better than nothing & honestly, I just like drafting the teams & dc much about voting outside of 1st round games. I’m undefeated in first rounds & want to keep that in tact, lol. But, as I’ve said repeatedly, I’d gladly donate to a simulator of some sort, or, any other scoring method we could use.

 

[drcats2013]

My favorite is when you get a comment such as "so and so had two of my favorite players they get my vote"

Unfortunately in baseball drafts it's a much more research driven sport and you can't perceive who the best team like in basketball off name alone.

Voting doesn't do well in these drafts IMO

I agree. That said, I enjoy these a lot, and really appreciate you doing them. Looking forward to the next one.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I agree. That said, I enjoy these a lot, and really appreciate you doing them. Looking forward to the next one.

Agreed

 

[drcats2013]

Sorry y’all, I tried to vote several times yesterday, but, I had no internet service & couldn’t stay connected long enough to do it. Spent Friday & Saturday at a cabin in the country & had to drive 20 min to get any type of service. Congrats to both of you for making it, especially @Cowtown Cat for winning a very close final.

Hope you enjoyed yourself, man! Sounds like a great weekend. I’ve been putting the phone down a TON this weekend, myself.

 

[JHannibalSmith]

Hope you enjoyed yourself, man! Sounds like a great weekend. I’ve been putting the phone down a TON this weekend, myself.

Ty, brother. Definitely a much needed getaway. Finally found some time to squeeze in a little fishing, too. Gonna start putting my phone down a lot more this summer to preserve what’s left of my sanity, if that’s even possible, lol.

 

[drcats2013]

Ty, brother. Definitely a much needed getaway. Finally found some time to squeeze in a little fishing, too. Gonna start putting my phone down a lot more this summer to preserve what’s left of my sanity, if that’s even possible, lol.

Dude, I feel that sooo much lol. I’m on mine quite a bit from 8-430 (work for the state lol), but trying to put it down afterwards.

Speaking of fishing: caught 16 smallmouth yesterday in about an hour and 15 minutes. 4 keepers. It was windy as crap, but man they were biting good!

 

[JHannibalSmith]

Dude, I feel that sooo much lol. I’m on mine quite a bit from 8-430 (work for the state lol), but trying to put it down afterwards.

Speaking of fishing: caught 16 smallmouth yesterday in about an hour and 15 minutes. 4 keepers. It was windy as crap, but man they were biting good!

You can’t look at ANYTHING, anymore, without having political bs (one side) being shoved down your throat. I’m so sick of it & it’s driving me away from everywhere. If I don’t stay away more, I’m afraid I’ll snap one day & become the inspiration for the movie “Falling Down 2” 😂.

But, wow, sounds like you had a hell of a day. That’s A LOT of fish in 75 minutes. I was just fishing a farm pond on the property I was at & ended up catching 4 largemouth in a cpl hours, but, only one was over a pound, lol.

 

[drcats2013]

You can’t look at ANYTHING, anymore, without having political bs (one side) being shoved down your throat. I’m so sick of it & it’s driving me away from everywhere. If I don’t stay away more, I’m afraid I’ll snap one day & become the inspiration for the movie “Falling Down 2” 😂.

But, wow, sounds like you had a hell of a day. That’s A LOT of fish in 75 minutes. I was just fishing a farm pond on the property I was at & ended up catching 4 largemouth in a cpl hours, but, only one was over a pound, lol.

So true, man. It just isn’t worth the stress that I cannot control when reading the ignorant stuff lol. Which I’m the dummy for letting it get to me, so I just try to stay away as much as I can.

I went yesterday for about an hour and caught 3 fish lol. A lot of it is weather related; barometric pressure and stuff. I fish the Cumberland River mostly. Rarely hit the lakes. Would love to find a nice local pond for my son.

 

[JonathanW]

Surprised there isn't a fishing thread on the Paddock, like there is golf & other stuff.

 

[JHannibalSmith]

So true, man. It just isn’t worth the stress that I cannot control when reading the ignorant stuff lol. Which I’m the dummy for letting it get to me, so I just try to stay away as much as I can.

I went yesterday for about an hour and caught 3 fish lol. A lot of it is weather related; barometric pressure and stuff. I fish the Cumberland River mostly. Rarely hit the lakes. Would love to find a nice local pond for my son.

Oh yeah, weather is a huge factor. I’m lucky bc I have 3-4 really nice, easily accessible lakes in the area & also the Ohio River. 90% of my fishing is done at one of them. But, if I’m not on a boat I don’t usually go to the lakes, either.

Idk how old your son is, but, I bet he’d love it if you took him to a lake & rented a John boat or pontoon to fish from. But, if he’s too young you’d probably be better off on a bank or pond, lol. Idk about your area either, but here, most ppl who have ponds are happy to let you fish there if you ask. That’s where you’ll find some hosses, too.

 

[JHannibalSmith]

Surprised there isn't a fishing thread on the Paddock, like there is golf & other stuff.

Me too. Bc I know of several ppl on here who love to fish. It’s crazy to me that high schools now have bass fishing teams. I would’ve killed to have that option when I was in school.

 

[drcats2013]

Oh yeah, weather is a huge factor. I’m lucky bc I have 3-4 really nice, easily accessible lakes in the area & also the Ohio River. 90% of my fishing is done at one of them. But, if I’m not on a boat I don’t usually go to the lakes, either.

Idk how old your son is, but, I bet he’d love it if you took him to a lake & rented a John boat or pontoon to fish from. But, if he’s too young you’d probably be better off on a bank or pond, lol. Idk about your area either, but here, most ppl who have ponds are happy to let you fish there if you ask. That’s where you’ll find some hosses, too.

He just turned 5 last month. I take him to the river and we catch some red eyes, smallmouth, etc, but I’d love to find a good pond full of bluegill, where he can catch one after another. Really get his attention lol. I know of a few people that have ponds in my area, but none are well stocked. Growing up, I fished a pond where you could catch 50-100 fish easily and one right after another. I was hooked FAST.

 

[JHannibalSmith]

He just turned 5 last month. I take him to the river and we catch some red eyes, smallmouth, etc, but I’d love to find a good pond full of bluegill, where he can catch one after another. Really get his attention lol. I know of a few people that have ponds in my area, but none are well stocked. Growing up, I fished a pond where you could catch 50-100 fish easily and one right after another. I was hooked FAST.

Man, there is a little lake up the street from me called Elks Lake (owned by the Elks Club) that would be perfect for your son. It’s more like a huge pond than a lake, but, it’s LOADED with big bass, crappie & bluegill. Probably like 100 yards long & 50 yards wide. And, it’s rarely fished, anymore. You could probably get a canoe in it, but, it’s a very short walk to the bank & it has probably 10-12 awesome spots to fish from.

That’s where I got hooked & it produced good numbers almost every time I went there. A place like that would blow him away. Good luck though, I really hope you find one for him. Maybe ask local golf courses with ponds if they allow fishing. Courses around here are very well stocked & some have ponds on the property but not on the course, so, you’re not in the way of golfers. There’s even a cemetery that has a cpl nice ponds but some of the workers there won’t allow it. Gotta catch the right guy on the right day there, lol. But, if you check into outside the box type of places like that you might stumble into something.

 

[drcats2013]

Man, there is a little lake up the street from me called Elks Lake (owned by the Elks Club) that would be perfect for your son. It’s more like a huge pond than a lake, but, it’s LOADED with big bass, crappie & bluegill. Probably like 100 yards long & 50 yards wide. And, it’s rarely fished, anymore. You could probably get a canoe in it, but, it’s a very short walk to the bank & it has probably 10-12 awesome spots to fish from.

That’s where I got hooked & it produced good numbers almost every time I went there. A place like that would blow him away. Good luck though, I really hope you find one for him. Maybe ask local golf courses with ponds if they allow fishing. Courses around here are very well stocked & some have ponds on the property but not on the course, so, you’re not in the way of golfers. There’s even a cemetery that has a cpl nice ponds but some of the workers there won’t allow it. Gotta catch the right guy on the right day there, lol. But, if you check into outside the box type of places like that you might stumble into something.

Yes, that is EXACTLY like what I had growing up to fish in. It was perfect.

I tried Wasiato, which is a nice golf course near me, but they won’t allow it. Some good ideas, for sure. I’ll keep checking around. I live in Harlan and there are TONS of land and mountain properties, so you’d think I’d find a good one at some point lol. Take care buddy!

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

So true, man. It just isn’t worth the stress that I cannot control when reading the ignorant stuff lol. Which I’m the dummy for letting it get to me, so I just try to stay away as much as I can.

I went yesterday for about an hour and caught 3 fish lol. A lot of it is weather related; barometric pressure and stuff. I fish the Cumberland River mostly. Rarely hit the lakes. Would love to find a nice local pond for my son.

What county are you in that you're fishing Cumberland river? I love fishing but Cabo San Lucas ruined me on fresh water.

 

[drcats2013]

What county are you in that you're fishing Cumberland river? I love fishing but Cabo San Lucas ruined me on fresh water.

I live in Harlan County. We actually are the head waters of the Cumberland

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

I live in Harlan County. We actually are the head waters of the Cumberland

Yeah, I've been gone far too long and had forgotten. Have you tried game wardens or bait shops for suggestions? When I was young finding a farm pond almost always involved a friend of a friend or co-worker. Pond fishing just doesn't seem as popular these days. I always preferred creeks and small rivers to lakes. Good luck. Fishing that way is so relaxing.

 

[drcats2013]

Yeah, I've been gone far too long and had forgotten. Have you tried game wardens or bait shops for suggestions? When I was young finding a farm pond almost always involved a friend of a friend or co-worker. Pond fishing just doesn't seem as popular these days. I always preferred creeks and small rivers to lakes. Good luck. Fishing that way is so relaxing.

We have only have one bait shop here, but it would be worth an ask. Haven’t talked to the game warden, either. Yea, I’m a River/creek guy, myself. I just want him to be able to catch one after another and get hooked like I was. I was very lucky to have that pond