That is an nbc source, and they did the typical "it's going to another new york" spiel. I'm not saying there's not some merit, but this has been sensationalized by media types.
Would you obey a mask mandate?
- Thread starter screwduke1
- Start date
Fox News?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ton-texas-childrens-hospital-admit-adults.amp
also, pro publia is credible. They took down the crook Allison lundergan grimes.
https://www.propublica.org/article/...time-rising-democratic-star-voter-privacy/ampP
They moved adults to the children's hospital weeks ago though. NOW it's from a surge? Hmm.
Republican govern is in on the ruse?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc13.com/amp/coronavirus-covid-19-covid-greg-abbott/6309411/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc13.com/amp/coronavirus-covid-19-covid-greg-abbott/6309411/
what is it? You are disputing reports that Houston hospitals are being pushed to their capacity despite elective procedures being banned two weeks ago by the governor.
Is there a source for major Texas Health Centers saying that? I’ve read numerous reports of crowded hospitals, especially in Houston, and while Abbott might well be an idiot, he’s a Republican in a Red State, once lauded by Trump for his reopening.
Here’s an extended quote from a Fox News item with a Texas health official suggesting the possible need for a “stadium” type response:
"Now that we've got so many cases coming up...at least a lot of the patients now are younger and not quite as sick -- but, because of the volume, we have a lot of very sick people too. So, we may have to go to the next phase of opening up something like a stadium," she said.
On Tuesday, Texas reported more than 10,000 new coronavirus cases, obliterating its previous record for single-day increases. The day's 10,028 confirmed cases eclipse Texas' previous record of 8,258, which the Lonestar State set on Saturday.“
Last edited:
According to numbers I looked up, KY is indeed looking better with regards to number of cases, hospitalizations and deaths related to COVID-19. But when you say you won't wear one essentially until the virus is going crazy again (and it will, everywhere, because Americans are stupid and let politics cloud their judgment), that's kinda silly, because not wearing a mask or social distancing is EXACTLY why it will return and numbers will increase.
You do know that when the virus is down, the best approach is to KEEP IT DOWN by following health guidelines to wear masks and keep distant. It's still out there, and people still drive through KY from other states, stopping at gas stations you or other non-mask wearers might use, coughing, talking, breathing and sneezing, and touching gas pumps and pay station keypads in areas where you and other non-mask wearing Kentuckians might frequent.
With a mask - you've decreased chances of a resurgence (it's actually scientifically shown as being effective). This isn't some political scare tactic - people all around the world are wearing masks - are you saying this is a worldwide conspiracy by an American political party to oppress and take away freedoms of humanity all around the earth? It's absurd to me to even type something that people literally believe is true.
Does anyone recall the 80s when they started making seat belts the law? Protect us from ourselves, because my not wearing a seat belt does no harm to anyone but me, yet they made a law, and have been enforcing it since. I don't recall America saying this was tyranny and communism and they were coming for the rest of our freedoms - most of us just did it (or didn't), and that was that. Granted, we didn't have online forums and social media - the poison of society today - but not wearing a seat belt only put individuals at a personal risk of death / injury, not others around them. Wearing a mask, even if you're Billy Bad Ass and aren't skeered of some Wuhan Flu, be a southern gentleman and respect elders and others around you.
Gone are the days of southern hospitality and respect, I suppose.
Simple: Wear a mask as a mandate is much like wearing clothes in public is a law. No one wants to catch your sickness / see your junk, and if found without a mask / clothes, you'll be cited and pay a fine, or told to don a mask out of courtesy for others and respect of public health.
I wear one inside, but not outside, unless I think I'll be in closer proximity to several people for an extended period of time. I have it around my neck just in case, and do it just in case, even though there is still a % chance I could walk through a cloud of virus-laden cough/sneeze air and still pull it in over the top of the mask (where most of my air goes in and out anyway, I've found). I also do it out of respect for others - my wife is asthmatic (severely), and there are a lot of older people out and about these days - baby boomers are still rampant!
I just saw a story the other day on my news feed app that a teacher in KY (I think it was KY) died last week after she and two other teachers got together in one of their homes to talk about the upcoming school year - all three wearing masks, sanitizing and sitting 6+ feet apart (so they say). All three of them tested positive because one of them had a mild, dry cough that she thought was just allergies (familiar story these days), but ended up being COVID. Somehow, even with masks and their caution, all three caught it - one died and I believe the other two are, or were, in the hospital.
Some fuel to the anti-mask crowd, I'm sure, and really no way to 100% verify that all three ladies were perfect in their masking, cleaning and distancing during their teaching planning party, but still worthy of noting.
I'm still wearing a mask indoors at work and stores and in planes (I'm actually in Europe now for work - wearing a mask for 10 hours on the plane over 10 days ago wasn't bad at all), and wish we could all drop the politics and just respect others and do it for the sake of humanity.
There is a lack of trust because politicians have created division. The confusion and lack of trust is due to the virus being new and we are still learning about its transmission, and because politicians have weaponized the pandemic for election/re-election interests.
The people we know as "experts" in the government sound like they're talking out of both sides of their mouths because, well, they're being steered like a puppet by politicians. One day they say what they know to be mostly true, based on the science available around a new virus at the time, only to be "spoken to" in the back room to "get in line" with the political agenda. Next time out, they're backpedaling or taking a different approach.
Personally, I feel sorry for gov't epidemiologists right now. Talk about frustrating. They finally get a chance to strut their life-long work, but are told to tone it down because "agenda". Politics sucks (all sides).
You do know there are 194 other countries on earth that are or have gone through the pandemic and are wearing masks that don't vote in our November elections, correct? It's just going to go away, only in the USA, come November?
Saw a news story this weekend about a school district in Virginia somewhere trying to figure out a way to get kids back to school in August while social distancing to the required 6'.
Guy in charge of the planning for the district said in order to meet the 6' mandate (e.g., "do judging from 6 feet away"), they'd need real estate the size of 5 Pentagons (arguably the largest building in the US).
So in the grocery store - you're in the same aisle as someone and you both need to pass - how do you suggest the "simpleton" pass you from 6' when the aisle is only 5' wide?
In order for most of us to accommodate 6' from anyone, we're gonna need to spread way the hell out and buy bigger buildings for our groceries!
One guy: I herd sum docs on YOOTOOB and they done said masks don't do sheeit.
Other guy: I listen to my paid MD at the clinic who said masks help.
You responding only to the "Other guy": Docs aren't always right.
So the guy that pays a real doctor hears masks are required, and the other clown listens to "MDs" on YouTube saying masks are pointless, yet you poke at the more reasonable of the two with your "docs aren't always right"? Makes sense.
Herd immunity requires 70% of the world population to be exposed/get sick to work (let's ignore the fact that there are several thousand cases of people becoming reinfected, with symptoms, a second time). Let's see how that would look, numbers-wise.
World population: 7.8 billion
70% of world population required to be infected for herd immunity: 5.46 billion
Current worldwide COVID fatality rate: 4.5% (US currently is around 4.21%, give or take due to errors in data reporting).
Number of expected worldwide deaths (sacrificial lambs) to achieve "herd immunity": 245.6 million (1 in 32 humans on earth)
US population: 328.2 million
70% of US population required to be infected to achieve herd immunity: 229.7 million
Number of expected US deaths (sacrificial lambs) to achieve "herd immunity" (US "herd immunity" 70% of sick population x current US death rate of 4.21%): 9.7 million
So if we all just go crazy, no masks, kick up sports, bars, beaches, churches, and go back to pre-pandemic behaviors, all in the name of "herd immunity", we should only expect to see 9.7 million of our fellow Americans die, assuming herd immunity even works for this virus.
NUTSHELL: This poster is advocating that we sacrifice roughly 1 out of 34 Americans (and 1/32 humans on earth) for herd immunity. If that happened, we'd all easily know someone that died from COVID, we'd have no hospital space, and there'd be an uprising of morticians and crematories like we've never seen.
Last edited:
The virus doesn't just float out on it's own. It rides much larger moisture particles and aerosolization of moisture from the lungs. If there's some kind of barrier between the outside air and the exit point of such aerosol, it will reduce the quantity of particulates that escape - much of which sticks in the mask material and eventually dries up and needs to be disposed of and/or washed (for cloth masks).
If I'm wearing a barrier, and you're wearing a barrier, we've just reduced the probability that those aerosols carrying the tiny virus RNA will 1) get out of my face, and 2) get into your face. The particle would have to find its way out of my mask, float long enough, and then find its way through your mask.
Will some get out? Sure, especially with strong sneezes and coughs. But with the matrix of wound fabric in all sorts of masks, the amount that will get out is tiny when compared to no masks at all.
I'm not exactly sure why this is so complicated to some people.
Last edited:
Maybe this winter we should ask people to try this experiment, and film it, on a nice cold and humid KY day.
Walk outside, breathe in, breathe out, repeat. Observe the "breath" we usually see when it's balls-ass cold outside. Have someone record from the side.
Now, put on a basic cloth mask, breathe in, breathe out, repeat (same breath pressure as without a mask - no cheating by pushing air out harder because one knows the outcome of this "experiment" already and doesn't want to be made a fool). Observe the "breath", have someone record again.
Review both videos. It's not scientific, but rather visual inspection.
Since many non-mask wearers here love anecdotal evidence, this should bring some to see that masks do stop moisture, and if they stop moisture, they're stopping the virus.
I'm literally in a hotel in Switzerland, right this minute, and looking outside to the street below. Everyone in shops and on the street is wearing a mask.
Correct me if I'm wrong - do the Swiss vote in our US elections? Will they stop wearing masks in November, too? Just curious...
Last edited:
I've read and heard from a public health official who's a friend that it's more like 85%-92% to achieve actual herd immunity. Of course, politicians are going to try and nudge that # down to further their "OPEN UP!" cause, so perhaps this is where these new 60% numbers are coming from. Eventually, look for someone in our gov't to say 20% is the new herd immunity number...now get back to work!
OK, maybe not go away but, be not as prevalent in the news. As you stated in another post, politics have divided this country right now and this pandemic is being used to divide us even more. I don't believe it is as bad as being reported. Even on here when some say the US is the worst in the world they are being disingenuous. Plus, in the earlier stages, statements by health officials as to mask not helping because they did not want people buying them up gives people more pause. Truth in the beginning and now would go a long way to make people trust their findings.
I've read and heard from a public health official who's a friend that it's more like 85%-92% to achieve actual herd immunity. Of course, politicians are going to try and nudge that # down to further their "OPEN UP!" cause, so perhaps this is where these new 60% numbers are coming from. Eventually, look for someone in our gov't to say 20% is the new herd immunity number...now get back to work!
60-70% is what Osterholm has been saying since the beginning. That is at least a "slow down". At this rate barring a vaccine I guess our best option is herd immunity. As many get it as possible and hope it weakens as time goes on and deaths are mitigated.
I don't trust the media either as we all know they LOVE sensationalizing things. However, I'm also a bioengineer/scientist myself, and have many friends/colleagues in the medical industry, so I see a bit more into the reality of the pandemic than those not in my line of work.
It's real, and it's no joke. It's sad that people think it's all just going to be ignored/forgotten, and it's clear that the only way people are going to really understand the severity is if/when it finally hits close to home.
Are politicians and the media over-hyping? Perhaps to some degree. But why not play it safe and get through it rather than gamble and regret?
Seems about right in line with the Mayo Clinic - 70% ish percent.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...th/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808
You are confusing CFR with IFR. The IFR is nowhere near 5%. We know what the numerator is, but not the denominator is, but the CDC estimates that the actual death rate is likely to be around .26%. This is because the positive case count doesn't include asymptomatic cases and symptomatic cases that do not include a positive test. The CDC further estimates that only 10% of cases at most are known. Even the notorious prophet of doom Neil Ferguson used a .9% IFR when he concocted his prediction of 1.1 to 2 million dead Americans if absolutely nothing was done with respect to the virus.
As for herd immunity, a 70% threshold is based on an assumption that everyone who is in contact with the virus catches it, and that no one can fight it off with ones own immune system. Some virologists believe that it may actually be as low as 20% percent.
I'm not sure why you are so triggered by my post. I just made a point that doctors aren't perfect just because you pay them money. They get it wrong all the time. If you disagree with that point, I don't know what to tell you.
I didn’t say I wouldn’t wear one, I said it was unnecessary in KY. Our numbers are better than they have been throughout, and nothing has changed. Because we had acted appropriately.
I have an issue with a governor that seems to want to force things on people. It will not stop once this winds down.
Didn't know anyone had good enough vision to see something 50 -150 nanometers in size. About as true as a cloth mask stopping it.
Right. Which is the point - they have all flip-flopped, and inside a matter of weeks. If the answer was as obvious as some believe, there'd be no flipping, they would have all said from day 1 "yes, obviously, you need to wear a mask."
I believe this is reality. The % of positive cases suggests that they are having to increase the number tests significantly to keep the case numbers up. All while the death rate continues to drop.
KY’s positivity rate has recently increased with even more tests. Not a ton and not a crisis, but the positivity rate is increasing with increased testing. That’s the worst combination. The numerator increase is outpacing the denominator increase.
the data you linked clearly shows this
Last edited:
Probable cases have also jumped, as well as lumping backlog cases together on a day.
KY is was and is in good shape, there was zero need to issue this right now. The Governor wanted to do it, and jumped at the first opportunity.
They track on a 7 day rolling average. The big jump from last monday will be filtered out tomorrow. We will still show an upward trend.
Do you believe masks also reduce the spread of both influenza and the common cold?
We didn’t go to mandatory masks because of a 7 day tracking. We went because there 2-3 days of higher case numbers with no explanation from the governor that we also increased testing. There was also 100 past positives from peewee valley prison mixed in.
Even with the increase we’re still in great shape. Nothing changed, absolutely nothing.
I’m not against masks, if you want to wear one then wear it, if a business wants you to wear one and requires it, by all means do it. I have an issue with a mandate. I have an issue with the shaming, that is toxic and leads to anger. I have an issue with how the data is presented. It seems to me it is a rather simple Process that has been convoluted to add confusion.
There is strong evidence that they do. Japan and their use of masks is the best example of this.
However, a cold can be spread through the "air". The flu is typically thought to just be spread through dropletts similar to what is throught to be the main spreader of covid. That's why medical experts think masks are even more effective in controlling the spread of the flu and covid-19.
I understand. thanks for the clarification. Whether the mandate is a good idea/necessary is certainly debatable. I think masks are a good idea. But I also agree that the "mandate" might not be the best way to get people who are less inclined to wear them, to wear them. The word out of the EKY counties who have some spread is that mask wearing has skyrocketed in those counties. Not because andy dandy said to wear them, but because people now recognize the risk.
the data issue is real. I don't want to "blame" anybody, but the federal government's lack of leadership on the issue is the cause. The federal government should have, in the begining, said, "here is how we are going to count cases" and laid out simple guidance on how to do so.
However, I don't think we should confuse what is going on. We have more of the virus in KY than we did previously. Is it a crisis? No. Should we take some precautions to try and keep it beat back? Absolutely. I don't disagree that Andy seems to be "getting off" on telling us how stupid we are and how we aren't doing enough.
His big test is going to be school. Teachers are going to freak out as school boards start saying that they are going back to school.
