Yep. And they recommended mask wearing to control it. The reason the japanese have to use masks is because of how densely populated the island is.
Would you obey a mask mandate?
- Thread starter screwduke1
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Yep. And they recommended mask wearing to control it. The reason the japanese have to use masks is because of how densely populated the island is.
This whole pandemic deal is new to the U.S., but countries like Japan and South Korea have dealt with outbreaks for years. The fact that they rely heavily on masks during these situations tells me they're likely a good idea. They have a lot more experience in these matters than we do.
There is also proof that what does not kill you makes you stronger. This is being ignored and is a significant gap in logic where you try to keep people from getting it rather than letting those that are not at risk get it and start to develop the immune response. Until a vaccine the only way we live even a remotely normal life is to remove these types of actions for the general public, arm everyone with all of the data possible so they know whether they are at risk or not, and then let it make it's way through the population. Swine flu was a pandemic by all accounts but isn't even really discussed anymore because it's not nearly the threat it was when it first came out. This flu is no different and should not be treated different.
Japan also has apparently mandated that their citizens not scream on roller coasters. That’s another reason we are unique-other countries are doing a lot more than asking their people to wear masks. That level of control would never, ever work here.
No...they have used masks for years, and I am very well aware of the Japanese geography/culture.
the link to their government website says they are encouraging mask use. Of course they have used them for years. But they still encourage it
That's the tip of the iceberg: lots of folks think (maybe 30%) that Bill Gates is on record seeking an 80% drop in world population . . . the thought is frequently expressed on these forums. I asked for a source, and someone linked a video where Gates suggests reducing population growth by 1.3 billion in the next 40 years, as distinguished from reducing the total population to 1.3 billion. When I quoted his/her link and explained the fairly simple language Gates used, he simply didn't respond.
You can't make this sh!t up!
I think the virus has weakened, and it seems inevitable that "[a]s many as possible" are going to get it, and more rapidly in the US than many other places.
So long as it doesn't overwhelm hospitals, it is what it is, but local conditions will require local responses.
I hate wearing a frickin' mask, but it is becoming less burdensome, just as wearing a tie did the more I did it. I now take naps without loosening my tie!!
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You've never been able to see your breath in the winter? When you see a LOT of breath with no mask, then hardly any with the mask, don't you think that also means that the viral RNA attached to those moisture particles is also mostly contained? You should, because it is.
I would say yes since the common cold is in fact a coronavirus.
However, those aren't as contagious as this virus (nor as deadly, contrary to political agenda malarkey data), so people don't wear masks.
If we all wore masks for 6-8 months, and it helped with the novel coronavirus, wouldn't it be a hoot if we also kicked the common head cold and flu?
So I’m assuming you advocate continuously wearing masks from here on out, correct?
Then my question to you is the same as to goukats — I assume you advocate wearing masks continuously, correct?
By the way, it doesn’t matter if they (the flu and cold) aren’t as contagious or deadly as COVID-19, there is no dispute that they still kill tens of thousands of people every year. Wouldn’t you agree that if we can decrease deaths from any respiratory virus to any degree by simply wearing masks forever that it’s worth it? If not, why not?
You're extrapolating numbers with no regard to demographics. Also, that "70%" assumes zero t-cell or cross-immunity from other coronavirus strains.
They kill 10s of thousands in a situation where we don't shut down, stay at home, or wear masks. COVID spread and killed twice as many as the flu, in a lesser time period (and still spreads even in summer, unlike the flu and head cold), and we had mass shut downs and a good percentage of people social distancing and wearing masks. Imagine the numbers if we acted like the coronavirus was just the regular old flu?
I advocate focusing on this virus because it's transmission rate seems to be much higher than any other we've seen. When a handful of people go to a bar and more than 200 leave infected (the Michigan case), that's heads and tails above what the flu does during say being at the bar on New Year's Eve during the height of flu season. When was the last time we've heard of people going into a bar and the majority contracting influenza (not that we've ever contact traced or tested for the flu like we do for the coronavirus, but it would still probably make the news if 200 people visited a bar and days later all had the flu - some of which were hospitalized and/or died).
Only reason I see some credence in gov't pushing people to do it is on display in this thread - we have people that just don't give a rats ass about others and think the whole thing is a farce - something of a conspiracy that somehow the entire planet is caught up in - and it's because of those people that the gov't feels like they have to force us to do it to protect ourselves. Remember when they made us wear seatbelts in the 80s to protect ourselves from ourselves? Where was the outrage then? I freaking hated them, but we had to wear 'em! Now I feel like something isn't right without it, and our kids almost break into tears if we start moving the car before they're buckled in!
I hate gov't intervention, but the fact of the matter remains - if people behaved responsibly, as a whole, we'd not need government for anything. It's those lone bad apples that ruin it for the rest of us.
I didn't extrapolate, I just pulled total world and US populations and applied the herd immunity % and then the current statistical death rates from a non-partisan, data-only stats website currently tracking the data. Yes, I know there are stories of deaths being incorrectly reported as COVID when it could be something else (but I don't believe the conspiracy that hospitals are all doing this to scam insurance and get reimbursed - get caught and say hello to prison). But even if the 4.21% death rate is half that, and considering it's clear this coronavirus doesn't appear to be concerned about hot, humid, dry or other kind of weather (like the flu, which propagates mainly during the fall, winter and early spring seasons), does it matter that instead of 1 out of 32 people dead is 1 out of 64, or even 1 out of 100? Some people are still asking Americans to buckle up and pray to god that they aren't involved in a mass human sacrifice just to get through "herd immunity".
Let's not forget - herd immunity is nothing more than the lazy way out. Just keep going status quo because anything else is just too damned hard and annoying (e.g., we're lazy and set in our ways).
Sooooo...do you advocate wearing masks forever or not? If not, then you're saying that it's ok to let some people die from the flu and colds.
Again, you are way off the death rate. It's not close to 4.21%. It's not even close to "half that". There are literally dozens of scientific articles from medrxiv.org and other sources which attempt to estimate the IFR. The CDC estimation is .26%, and others are lower, while some are close to 1%, which is very scary, if true. But it's not 4.21, not half that, and not even close. The easiest source for the article is a google search with "IFR" and coronavirus.
The discrepancy between the estimated IFR and the CFR is not likely to be based on false attributions of death but due to fact that most cases are never included in the CFR because they're either without symptoms or with symptoms so minor because they don't result in test, or, in the spring, because there was insufficient testing available.
The mandate at least where I live is falling on deaf ears. I am wearing a mask in places I didn't just a couple of weeks ago. Example, if I stopped into Speedway to grab a Diet Dr Pepper at the Fountain machine I wouldn't wear a mask...now I do. Very few are though. People wear them in grocery stores but not in a gas station, liquor store, etc. Have seen no uptick over the past 4 days at all. Multiple people at Subway- no masks.
I say this to say I don't think the mandate has changed the behavior of many and I don't really see it as a mandate.
I am in NKY and am mostly wearing a mask because Hamilton Co is across the river and is a hotspot in Ohio- lots of commuters in my area.
I say this to say I don't think the mandate has changed the behavior of many and I don't really see it as a mandate.
I am in NKY and am mostly wearing a mask because Hamilton Co is across the river and is a hotspot in Ohio- lots of commuters in my area.
Because it’s not illegal, the Cares act pays them and the CDC cleared it by changing standards to suspected Covid. It’s literally not against the law right now to try and scam the system to see what a hospital or state can get away with.
Part of the reason is because the govt made hospitals essentially shutdown for 3 months, cutting off their means of income.
The problem is media and politicians saying we’ve failed so horribly compared to other nations, when we directed hospitals to claim all they can as Covid.
As far the actual death rate is concerned, three studies are helpful.
Two, the Theodore Roosevelt navy ship, and the Diamond Princess cruise ship apparently involved universal testing.
On the Navy ship, there were 1156 cases and 1 death. IFR of less than .1%
On the cruise ship, there were 696 cases and 14 fatalities. IFR of around 2%.
Obvious difference is the sailors are largely healthy, younger people, while the average age of a cruise ship passenger may be above 65.
Iceland did not have universal testing, but tested a large part of the population. Total cases, 1900. Deaths, 10. But is very unlikely that Iceland, even with mass testing, caught anywhere close to all actual cases.
It goes on and on. Hundreds of positive tests in prisons and meat packing facilities, far less than 1% fatalities.
Two, the Theodore Roosevelt navy ship, and the Diamond Princess cruise ship apparently involved universal testing.
On the Navy ship, there were 1156 cases and 1 death. IFR of less than .1%
On the cruise ship, there were 696 cases and 14 fatalities. IFR of around 2%.
Obvious difference is the sailors are largely healthy, younger people, while the average age of a cruise ship passenger may be above 65.
Iceland did not have universal testing, but tested a large part of the population. Total cases, 1900. Deaths, 10. But is very unlikely that Iceland, even with mass testing, caught anywhere close to all actual cases.
It goes on and on. Hundreds of positive tests in prisons and meat packing facilities, far less than 1% fatalities.
The healthcare professionals wear them properly though.
I'm guessing less than 10% of the US population that does wear them actually use an effective mask and when they do they are not used correctly.
Herd immunity is the only way out. Either by infection or vaccine. Vaccines for coronavirus types haven't been around despite decades of work on them. Even if every living person on earth wore a mask 24/7 the virus will run it's course.
Exactly. An ICU at 100% isn't overwhelmed when it is at 95-97% normally. It's just full. I know we may be arguing semantics a bit, but the MSM is really good at doing it.
Damn, you nearly quoted Publius directly (Madison and Hamilton, Federalist 51):
“If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”
True, and I will wear my mask, wash hands, etc., hoping to delay my day of reckoning until this virus has aged more than I have, and weakened.
I think it is happening as we speak/write/argue.
If this current generation of cynics had lived in December of 1941, they wouldn’t have believed Pearl Harbor was real, until a Jap walked up and bit ‘em on the ass!
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Or they would’ve blamed Roosevelt for putting embargoes on Japan, giving them no other option.
Not to mention that same media is now screaming about hospitals and ICUs being overrun without telling you that hospitals and ICUs run as close to max capacity as they can at normal times, and that a very small percentage of said current surge is from COVID patients, or that many of the "positive" tests are re-tests or asymptomatic or assumed positives or antibody positives.
The media is doing a lot of harm by convincing a chunk of people that the world is ending because of this. If we could just get the truth we would all be able to make much more informed decisions, but that wouldn't be in line with the MSM agenda, now would it.
Actually, some of all of that did rear it’s head in 41/42, but got drowned out by a massive national effort.
I think cruise ships are floating death traps, boredom traps, nickel and dime traps anymore
My frustration with the mask mandate is it’s being used to make an excuse for the protesting causing a spike.
There had always been health concerns about cruise ships. I’ve never had the urge to do one!!
WildcatfaninOhio
All-American
Our school district announced yesterday schools are back on August 24. Supposed to announce how- 5 days, 3 days, masks, no masks, recess, art/music, lunch, etc- next week.
Here in KY we’re also dealing with Dewine’s mandate.
I've got so much to say and so much frustration its hard to keep from being in total disgust . I'll just go ahead and rant . So Friday things seem to change in my little rural neck of the woods ( Lewis Co - Greenup Co ) . I go into a grocery store outlet on Friday , I'm there like 5 minutes and ask the lady " you have any cat food" and she looks up and says " oh I didnt see you and I cant serve you because you dont have a mask on " At this point I'm under the impression a restraining order has blocked his EO . So politely I ask what order are they following , they say " the gov mandated it yesterday and the county health dept was in here earlier today threatening us if we took care of customers NOT wearing a mask they would close them down for 30 days .
Then yesterday , was told by 2 different places in a strip mall " if you dont have a mask on we cant serve you " , in one of the places I POLITELY told the lady " I have a health condition that doesnt allow me to wear a mask " and she replied " doesnt matter we cant check you out "
So a couple things seem obvious -- Beshear has blast emailed the county health Depts demanding they go tell businesses " toe the line or else" and the health depts are turning the stores in the mask police . Creates a terrible atmosphere and will cause more drama and do more harm than it does good. This isnt needed in far far more areas than it is needed . So I ponder -- will the Emperor blast email the same health depts to go undue his soon to be illegal decree or not ? Terrible leadership from a terrible governor . Cant wait til Thursday when Andy goes 0-8 on legal battles .
Then yesterday , was told by 2 different places in a strip mall " if you dont have a mask on we cant serve you " , in one of the places I POLITELY told the lady " I have a health condition that doesnt allow me to wear a mask " and she replied " doesnt matter we cant check you out "
So a couple things seem obvious -- Beshear has blast emailed the county health Depts demanding they go tell businesses " toe the line or else" and the health depts are turning the stores in the mask police . Creates a terrible atmosphere and will cause more drama and do more harm than it does good. This isnt needed in far far more areas than it is needed . So I ponder -- will the Emperor blast email the same health depts to go undue his soon to be illegal decree or not ? Terrible leadership from a terrible governor . Cant wait til Thursday when Andy goes 0-8 on legal battles .
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