Would you obey a mask mandate?

[ryanbruner]

If that's the case we need to determine who a dumbass is and not let them vote, drive cars, own houses, or work in any job that interacts with people or makes decisions that could impact people.

At that point you basically have a weird version of Brave New World where the govt gets to decide who wins and who doesn't.

I get what you are saying, but our country is built on personal responsibility. Do your best to take care of you and yours. We know enough about this virus that the VAST majority of people really aren't in danger because of this. Protect who needs being protected and let people get back to normal.

Again, no one is stopping you from doing anything you think is reasonable to stay safe.

There are rules for a reason in our everyday lives lol. We can't just go out and murder and steal shit and be like "welp this country was built on personal responsibility so I think I'm good"

I mean if someone doesn't want to wear a mask they don't have to. Theres nothing stopping them from not wearing the mask. They can deal with the repercussions of whatever punishment there is for not wearing the mask.

We are getting back to normal. Wearing a mask isn't stopping that. If someone feels that their lives are being ripped apart over a mask then those people are weak minded fools.

 

[Punkin Puss]

(hearsay)
E'town Wal-mart some guy announced to greeters he isn't going to wear a mask and showed them that he was armed.

 

[ryanbruner]

(hearsay)
E'town Wal-mart some guy announced to greeters he isn't going to wear a mask and showed them that he was armed.

Jesus people are ****in stupid

 

[sefus12]

There are rules for a reason in our everyday lives lol. We can't just go out and murder and steal shit and be like "welp this country was built on personal responsibility so I think I'm good"

I mean if someone doesn't want to wear a mask they don't have to. Theres nothing stopping them from not wearing the mask. They can deal with the repercussions of whatever punishment there is for not wearing the mask.

We are getting back to normal. Wearing a mask isn't stopping that. If someone feels that their lives are being ripped apart over a mask then those people are weak minded fools.

And those rules were enacted by the courts, not the whim of a governor. If a governor wants to enforce some sort of mandate, bring it before your Congress and let them make a new law out of it. It's how the US works.

Also, there's no punishment for not following a governor's mandate. It's not a law. Cops can't arrest you for it. See my prior statement.

 

[ryanbruner]

And those rules were enacted by the courts, not the whim of a governor. If a governor wants to enforce some sort of mandate, bring it before your Congress and let them make a new law out of it. It's how the US works.

Also, there's no punishment for not following a governor's mandate. It's not a law. Cops can't arrest you for it. See my prior statement.

So then why do you care so much?
If its not a law and you can do what you want to and its exactly how you wanted it whats got you so hot and bothered?

 

[sefus12]

So then why do you care so much?
If its not a law and you can do what you want to and its exactly how you wanted it whats got you so hot and bothered?

I'm not hot and bothered at all. I know that how I act is both protecting me and my family and respectful for others. The better question is why I'm spending time trying to have a discussion with someone like you.

Show you why what you are saying can't happen and you immediately pivot to blaming me for something. Pretty typical.

 

[ryanbruner]

I'm not hot and bothered at all. I know that how I act is both protecting me and my family and respectful for others. The better question is why I'm spending time trying to have a discussion with someone like you.

Show you why what you are saying can't happen and you immediately pivot to blaming me for something. Pretty typical.

I'm not blaming you for anything I just genuinely want to know why it matters? Why is it such a big deal that people are being told to wear masks?

 

[sefus12]

I'm not blaming you for anything I just genuinely want to know why it matters? Why is it such a big deal that people are being told to wear masks?

1) It's not constitutional. 2) Mandates like that eliminate one of the prime things that make the United States the best nation that has ever existed..... the right of and responsibility that goes along with personal choice.

A mask mandate doesn't solve a virus problem by any means. All it does is make people who take social media or the MSM at their words and are terrified of the virus feel better, or give people like you a reason to tell everyone why you are a better person than them.

What it also does is take away any citizen's right to make decisions on their own, both on how they choose to protect themselves/their loved ones and how they choose to engage in commerce.

Humans are selfish. We act in what we believe is our own self interest as well as that of the ones we love. Somewhere along that journey the U.S. set up a system of governance that allowed those rights. It hasn't been perfect, but has worked better than anything else so far.

Why do you want to go in another direction to slow the spread (we've already done that) of a virus that 1) we can't stop and 2) we know the small percentage of people to protect?

 

[PhDcat2018]

I'm not blaming you for anything I just genuinely want to know why it matters? Why is it such a big deal that people are being told to wear masks?

I know I'm not him but mind if I answer? Imo, it's just another scare tactic and threat from a governor who thinks he has all the power. Also, unless it's a true medical mask, and you keep your hands off of it and your face, it really isn't protecting anyone from anything. The cloth masks absorb any mucus from those are actually sick, and then every touch of the material spreads it(like shaking hands or touching a commonly used item like a door handle). If you're not sick, or asymptomatic, it's pointless. It shouldn't be mandated(just like it shouldn't be an executive order from the president).

 

[ryanbruner]

1) It's not constitutional. 2) Mandates like that eliminate one of the prime things that make the United States the best nation that has ever existed..... the right of and responsibility that goes along with personal choice.

A mask mandate doesn't solve a virus problem by any means. All it does is make people who take social media or the MSM at their words and are terrified of the virus feel better, or give people like you a reason to tell everyone why you are a better person than them.

What it also does is take away any citizen's right to make decisions on their own, both on how they choose to protect themselves/their loved ones and how they choose to engage in commerce.

Humans are selfish. We act in what we believe is our own self interest as well as that of the ones we love. Somewhere along that journey the U.S. set up a system of governance that allowed those rights. It hasn't been perfect, but has worked better than anything else so far.

Why do you want to go in another direction to slow the spread (we've already done that) of a virus that 1) we can't stop and 2) we know the small percentage of people to protect?

You just said there isn't a consequence to not wearing your mask. Point to where in the constitution it says a Governor can't tell the people of his state to wear a mask during a pandemic. But if there isn't a punishment and you can truly still just do whatever you want then how do you not have the ability to make your own choices?

 

[sefus12]

You just said there isn't a consequence to not wearing your mask. Point to where in the constitution it says a Governor can't tell the people of his state to wear a mask during a pandemic. But if there isn't a punishment and you can truly still just do whatever you want then how do you not have the ability to make your own choices?

I'm no lawyer, but I believe KY's AG is pursuing a case right now that states why the governor's action isn't allowed. In order for his executive action to be legal, the gov has to state specific reasons for it, not just "other states are having trouble, so I'm enacting stuff" reasons. But again, I'm not a lawyer so I'll let the legal folk figure that one out. But I do know that being a governor doesn't give you the power to pick and choose which constitutional rights citizens have.

And mandates can't be enforced by legal action. I'm not sure why you aren't understanding that.

And further, why do you not answer any of the questions I ask you?

 

[ryanbruner]

I know I'm not him but mind if I answer? Imo, it's just another scare tactic and threat from a governor who thinks he has all the power. Also, unless it's a true medical mask, and you keep your hands off of it and your face, it really isn't protecting anyone from anything. The cloth masks absorb any mucus from those are actually sick, and then every touch of the material spreads it(like shaking hands or touching a commonly used item like a door handle). If you're not sick, or asymptomatic, it's pointless. It shouldn't be mandated(just like it shouldn't be an executive order from the president).

We know this already though this goes hand in hand with the masks. Don't walk around touching your face and other things right now. I'm just not sure how him telling people to be courteous of others and wear a mask is him saying he has all the power.

 

[sefus12]

We know this already though this goes hand in hand with the masks. Don't walk around touching your face and other things right now. I'm just not sure how him telling people to be courteous of others and wear a mask is him saying he has all the power.

Requesting people be courteous and mandating people wear masks are two very different things...

People can figure out how to be both courteous and safe on our owns. The VAST majority of the population has done it for decades and decades. That trend will continue without government intervention.

 

[ryanbruner]

I'm no lawyer, but I believe KY's AG is pursuing a case right now that states why the governor's action isn't allowed. In order for his executive action to be legal, the gov has to state specific reasons for it, not just "other states are having trouble, so I'm enacting stuff" reasons. But again, I'm not a lawyer so I'll let the legal folk figure that one out. But I do know that being a governor doesn't give you the power to pick and choose which constitutional rights citizens have.

And mandates can't be enforced by legal action. I'm not sure why you aren't understanding that.

And further, why do you not answer any of the questions I ask you?

Yes Daniel Cameron is pursuing a case that is likely to get shot down because theres nothing unconstitutional or illegal about Beshear telling people to wear a mask. Theres nothing there man and lets just be honest with each other real quick. Can we do that? You don't like what he had to say because you don't like him. Because this is a matter of politics for you.

 

[sefus12]

Yes Daniel Cameron is pursuing a case that is likely to get shot down because theres nothing unconstitutional or illegal about Beshear telling people to wear a mask. Theres nothing there man and lets just be honest with each other real quick. Can we do that? You don't like what he had to say because you don't like him. Because this is a matter of politics for you.

Whatever you think man. You go feel all good because I'm not going to try and debate with you, but at the end of the day nothing I have said is wrong and none of your responses prove otherwise.

 

[ryanbruner]

Whatever you think man. You go feel all good because I'm not going to try and debate with you, but at the end of the day nothing I have said is wrong and none of your responses prove otherwise.

I mean you said the reason this bothers you is because its unconstitutional and infringing on your rights. Theres no basis within the constitution that can overturn this mask mandate I am sorry to tell you brother. You are misinformed.

 

[sefus12]

I mean you said the reason this bothers you is because its unconstitutional and infringing on your rights. Theres no basis within the constitution that can overturn this mask mandate I am sorry to tell you brother. You are misinformed.

Whatever you think man. We disagree. I feel pretty confident in my stance though. Governors can call states of emergency, but they have to state specific reasons why, not just broad statements about other states having issues.

And no matter what, mandates aren't laws.

 

[ryanbruner]

Whatever you think man. We disagree. I feel pretty confident in my stance though. Governors can call states of emergency, but they have to state specific reasons why, not just broad statements about other states having issues.

And no matter what, mandates aren't laws.

You are right but this isn't a state of emergency and this mandate really doesn't mean anything. The only people this would truly affect are business owners and its been made clear that Andy isn't going to do anything even if they break the mask mandate. Theres just nothing to be upset with. This would be like me getting pissed off at the bag boy at Publix for telling me that I have to stop eating at Taco Bell lol. I mean yea its sound advise but it doesn't mean shit.

 

[ManitouDan]

Was the Emperors decree shot down or not ? No ruling today ? We wee supposed to hear a word on it .

 

[PhDcat2018]

We know this already though this goes hand in hand with the masks. Don't walk around touching your face and other things right now. I'm just not sure how him telling people to be courteous of others and wear a mask is him saying he has all the power.

Mandating it and threatening to close things down is the problem. It's a simple request. Let people make their own decisions. I have the same issue with schools not being open. Every district should be open. If the parents want to hold their kids out and homeschool them? Fine, but it's the responsibility of the parent to help get their kid through the curriculum. If the teachers are scared? That's ok, find another job. There are people who understand the facts about kids needing school, and that they're essentially at a 0% risk of anything except a minor cold.

Personal choice and responsibility.

 

[ryanbruner]

Mandating it and threatening to close things down is the problem. It's a simple request. Let people make their own decisions. I have the same issue with schools not being open. Every district should be open. If the parents want to hold their kids out and homeschool them? Fine, but it's the responsibility of the parent to help get their kid through the curriculum. If the teachers are scared? That's ok, find another job. There are people who understand the facts about kids needing school, and that they're essentially at a 0% risk of anything except a minor cold.

Personal choice and responsibility.

Really man lol
"If the teachers are scared find another job"
Jesus we've literally just let ourselves go as a country to hold onto just ridiculous stances

Like you do understand just how ridiculous this is right?
Whatever I'm done talking about it....thankfully nothing is going to happen with this and schools will open when they want to and it is what it is haha

It is wild however that everyone has decided that we can all function as sociopaths and just stop caring for others because we would hate to hop off the stance of our respective political party.

 

[PhDcat2018]

Really man lol
"If the teachers are scared find another job"
Jesus we've literally just let ourselves go as a country to hold onto just ridiculous stances

Like you do understand just how ridiculous this is right?
Whatever I'm done talking about it....thankfully nothing is going to happen with this and schools will open when they want to and it is what it is haha

Just look at what happens to kids who are not in school. The consequences are dramatic in development of not just academics, but social development, confidence, work ethic. Think about how many kids don't get food other than from school breakfast and lunches. Yes teachers that care more about themselves(why can't they just wear masks!) than the kids after looking at the facts can absolutely find another job. I don't have kids, but I do remember the teachers I had that cared about me and who I would grow up to be. I can name off 3 right now that wouldn't hesitate to be there when school started(well they're obviously retired).

 

[ryanbruner]

Just look at what happens to kids who are not in school. The consequences are dramatic in development of not just academics, but social development, confidence, work ethic. Think about how many kids don't get food other than from school breakfast and lunches. Yes teachers that care more about themselves(why can't they just wear masks!) than the kids after looking at the facts can absolutely find another job. I don't have kids, but I do remember the teachers I had that cared about me and who I would grow up to be. I can name off 3 right now that wouldn't hesitate to be there when school started(well they're obviously retired).

Dude this is a really bad take man. We can admit that Covid isn't as serious as people are pretending it is while also admitting theres no reason to be playing games with it and pretending it isn't real. Its super unlikely that I'll die in a car crash but I'm not out here driving on the opposite side of the road at 100mph. I don't understand why we are refusing to be objective about this.

 

[PhDcat2018]

Dude this is a really bad take man. We can admit that Covid isn't as serious as people are pretending it is while also admitting theres no reason to be playing games with it and pretending it isn't real. Its super unlikely that I'll die in a car crash but I'm not out here driving on the opposite side of the road at 100mph. I don't understand why we are refusing to be objective about this.

So I take it you don't understand the consequences of missing school vs the risk of covid to kids. Let me just tell you, it's not a zero-sum game(no I don't mean literal game).

 

[ryanbruner]

So I take it you don't understand the consequences of missing school vs the risk of covid to kids. Let me just tell you, it's not a zero-sum game(no I don't mean literal game).

The risk is for the older teachers and also the fact that there are kids who have undetected illnesses. Theres already a shortage of educators in this country and you can't just start firing people because they are doing risk assessment. There would be lawsuits there would be huge fallout from that and also people tend to care about people so its just wrong to fire someone because they're scared to die.

 

[PhDcat2018]

The risk is for the older teachers and also the fact that there are kids who have undetected illnesses. Theres already a shortage of educators in this country and you can't just start firing people because they are doing risk assessment. There would be lawsuits there would be huge fallout from that and also people tend to care about people so its just wrong to fire someone because they're scared to die.

Why are teachers immune to firing more than any other job? If you just didn't show to your job because you were scared of XYZ, guess what would happen? You'd lose your job. I don't want to fire teachers. I want the best teachers that are looking out for the kids. There's some unions that are using this as a weird bargaining chip.

 

[ryanbruner]

Why are teachers immune to firing more than any other job? If you just didn't show to your job because you were scared of XYZ, guess what would happen? You'd lose your job. I don't want to fire teachers. I want the best teachers that are looking out for the kids. There's some unions that are using this as a weird bargaining chip.

Because they have a reason to be scared lol
Firing teachers would be the dumbest ****ing thing we could start doing

 

[PhDcat2018]

Because they have a reason to be scared lol
Firing teachers would be the dumbest ****ing thing we could start doing

Man... there's a "reason to be scared" of everything. "Essential workers" take that risk. Why aren't teachers considered the same?

 

[BBBLazing]

Sure .. I do rolling stops at stop signs , drive 70 in 55 everyday , never wear a seat belt , and I told the folks at the store I had a health condition in order to get in a buy a pair of boots ... call the law on me .

If you don't think you are being a bitch by refusing to follow the rules of a private business by lying to them.......I disagree with you. Didn't you use to coach college age girls? Did you teach them to do the same?

 

[BBBLazing]

So if you don't wear a mask you're running around breathing on people out of spite?

My wife and I wear a mask when we go into stores and such, as we are supposed to, but not when we are out walking the dogs. We give people distance or quickly pass and don't yell in anyone's face. How is what we are doing wrong or helping spread a virus?

Also, what is an appropriate rate for how slowly a virus can spread? We were told that the initial requests were to avoid over-running the hospital system. We successfully did that. Are we just supposed to wear masks in perpetuity until all viruses are gone?

And if you say we now need to wear masks again because of the recent surge in positive tests, no one has any idea how bad that "surge" is because of the way states are reporting positives. Multiples tests of a single person, antibody positives, and assumed positives are all being lumped into the "new positives" numbers in areas. That doesn't tell a single story or even get into how many of the new "positives" are asymptomatic and, at least according to some studies, aren't nearly as likely to pass the virus on at that point.

While we're at it, when did the U.S., a society built on personal responsibility, go to a country based on "the greater good"? If you choose how to protect you and your loved ones, whether that be deciding to wear masks or deciding what stores/restaurants/etc to patron based on their protective measures and I did the same, how are we being irresponsible? And why should that decision be mandated by a single person?

And please tell me what I'm arguing about that I have no knowledge of.

check out southern Florida, Houston, Alabama and Arizona. ICU beds are running out.

If you aren't willing to act for the greater good, you are an asshole.

 

[ryanbruner]

Man... there's a "reason to be scared" of everything. "Essential workers" take that risk. Why aren't teachers considered the same?

No lol there’s a good chance that some of them would die. Let’s just drop it though my guy you’re clearly not going to move off of your stance that we should just fire all of the teachers and if they die they die and I get it. Some of us give a shit about people so it’s cool. If you want to choose to go out like that fine by me. I’m coolin and at the end of the day thank god no teachers will be getting fired and they’ll be safe at home teaching from a computer.

 

[CatOfDaVille]

Mandating it and threatening to close things down is the problem. It's a simple request. Let people make their own decisions. I have the same issue with schools not being open. Every district should be open. If the parents want to hold their kids out and homeschool them? Fine, but it's the responsibility of the parent to help get their kid through the curriculum. If the teachers are scared? That's ok, find another job. There are people who understand the facts about kids needing school, and that they're essentially at a 0% risk of anything except a minor cold.

Personal choice and responsibility.

You said in another post that you don't have kids, so you should probably sit this one out. It's a complex situation, and there is no simple answer.

For example, my 9 year old son has an undiagnosed autoimmune disease. We got the results of his genetic testing today, and he has an "abnormal" gene. Medication and more testing are in our future until the cause and treatment is known. He's a normal kid, but he's susceptible to infections and viruses.

My wife and I both work. Which of us is supposed to quit our job so that we can homeschool him? I am working from home for the rest of the year, so we have no problem with distance learning/remote school... whatever you want to call it.

You don't know there's no risk for kids. You are also misinformed if you think "scared teachers" can find another job and easily be replaced. There are teacher shortages all over this country. Yes, there are kids that need to go to school for the reasons you mentioned. There are also kids that are at risk going to school like my son. If even one child dies, it's too many.

Like I said, it's a complex situation, so for you to speak in absolutes like there's a simple solution tells me that you are either ignorant or have an agenda.

 

[ManitouDan]

If you don't think you are being a bitch by refusing to follow the rules of a private business by lying to them.......I disagree with you. Didn't you use to coach college age girls? Did you teach them to do the same?

Gov's illegally mandate was overturned last night , maybe I won't have to worry about it . But reality is I bet I will , when freedoms are taken away they dont reappear over night . Sadly. The gov office put a huge deal of pressure on county health depts. I know this as fact , talked to a judge exec last night . Now that his decree has been over ruled you think he emails all the counties to fess up to his illegal orders ? no .

 

[sefus12]

check out southern Florida, Houston, Alabama and Arizona. ICU beds are running out.

If you aren't willing to act for the greater good, you are an asshole.

Now go read up on what capacity ICUs typically run at (hint, it’s high) as well as how many ICU beds are being used by COVID patients.

Also, not agreeing with mandates doesn’t mean I’m irresponsible or a bitch or an asshole. Just because I don’t wear a mask all the time doesn’t mean I’m running up and coughing in ever elderly person’s face I see. Making assumptions about how responsible my actions are, which you have no idea about, makes you more of an asshole than me, no matter how much you wear a mask.

 

[kyeric]

If you wear your mask as you say then I'm not talking about you. Yes we have people all over the state spitefully doing dumb shit because they don't like the lib governor which is fckn irrelevant because a mask shouldn't be a political statement and to address the last paragraph you said that the mask mandate didn't make any sense because its not 100% effective....that would be nice if it were the case but the point of the mask isn't to kill the virus.

Right. The point of the mask was to flatten the curve and keep hospitals from being overrun. That was clearly effective. What moving goal post point are we on now?

 

[cole854]

Why anyone needs a mandate to wear a mask escapes my thinking.
Those claiming rights infringements escapes my thoughts and denies their own self preservation rights.

You really don't understand what "rights" are if you can't understand this.

 

[ryanbruner]

Right. The point of the mask was to flatten the curve and keep hospitals from being overrun. That was clearly effective. What moving goal post point are we on now?

No one said that we would just start ignoring the virus once we flattened the curve. The point of flattening the curve was so we could open the economy back up. You have to maintain some sort of precaution to maintain and contain this otherwise we will just go back to mid march and continue the cycle until theres an effective vaccine.

And nothing about a mask mandate affects anyone's rights.

 

[cole854]

Lockdowns, closures, healthy at home, stay at home, we'll get thru this together, you can't be doing that, flatten the curve, minimal capacity, social distance, ......not one thing worked. Now let's throw a mask mandate out there as the new "throw shit against the wall to see what sticks" policy.

 

[ryanbruner]

All of that worked the way it was supposed to lol what do you mean? All of that was meant to maintain this and lower numbers. Not cure us. Do you think we did these things to just wipe corona off of the map lmfao? Man if you went into this thinking that was the point....well it just says a lot.

 

[ManitouDan]

No one said that we would just start ignoring the virus once we flattened the curve. The point of flattening the curve was so we could open the economy back up. You have to maintain some sort of precaution to maintain and contain this otherwise we will just go back to mid march and continue the cycle until theres an effective vaccine.

And nothing about a mask mandate affects anyone's rights.

I respect your opinion Ryan but Its statements like this that make me fear for the future of America. Just brought up and taught a value system that is warped , as far as absolute belief in the constitution . And trust of the wrong set of people .