Almost. They're right there with FIFA, UofLOL and Congress as the most corrupt entities in the universe
Even the Klingons are jealous of their corruptness.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Almost. They're right there with FIFA, UofLOL and Congress as the most corrupt entities in the universe
Even the Klingons are jealous of their corruptness.
The UNC mods ban anyone that acknowledges and/or discusses the truth about the 2 decade systematic fraud that has went on at UNC
just think how that board and their mods are going to be when the hammer comes down
The UNC board is banning anyone that is not a UNC rivals member. Even if you have never made a post on that board. Must be concerned that a fan of another school is going to say something negatiive concerning their cheating ways.
There was a restaurant in Chapel Hill in which customers who ordered fine wine were given a glass of water and the waiter would pour some wine in to flavor the water.
When the government agency accused the restaurant of fraud for cheating customers...
The owners of the bar, who were UNC administrators, said, "As long as we say it is fine wine, it is fine wine and we did nothing wrong. Some fine wines are simply more water than other fine wines."
UNC students said, "Everyone waters down their wine!"
AFAM grads said, "We all drank fine wine in our college days!"
Roy Williams, who is part owner of the bar, said, "I didn't know the restaurant even served wine!"
UNC
Now they are suddenly beneath everyone and can't defend UNC without the facade , they ban people because it's all they can do and that's how far they've fallen . It drives them up the touching wall that they cannot control the discussion of UNC on this board , they want to lash out at us with their fake bs but they can't because everyone knows the truth now . It doesn't matter if the cheating , backwater , Mayberry mouth breather , inbred , slope headed , toofless , bandana wearin , deer huntin morons want to hide from the truth over there .
Unlike what Bobby claims (saying that the 12 hour rule only came into effect in 2012 well after Crowder left), this 12-hour rule appears to be in place going back to at least 1997-98, and probably far longer.
.
Wainstein says Crowder began implementing the bogus "lecture style" classes no later than 1999. She either believed the 6/12 rule applied to independent studies or that athletes were in danger of exceeding the 30 hour rule. Otherwise she would have had no reason for creating the fake classes.Reference to the FI250 in the NOA supplementary information was made on the other thread (about the Dan Kane article) in a comment. Looking at that exhibit is interesting, as they basically go back as far as 1997-98 in the UNC undergraduate bulletin.
For example the 1997-98 UNC undergraduate bulletin mentions Independent Studies (which it clearly says are correspondence courses) and says that a student may earn 30 semester hours of credit toward a degree. But it also says that "students attending classes may not enroll in an Independent Studies course at the same time without the written consent of their deans."
Later there's a section on "Special Studies for Credit" where it mentions "Variable amounts of credit up to six hours per semester and twelve hours total for graduation may be taken (which it clearly says are correspondence courses) and says that a student may earn 30 semester hours of credit toward a degree. But it also says that "students attending classes may not enroll in an Independent Studies course at the same time without the written consent of their deans."
Later there's a section on "Special Studies for Credit" where it mentions "Variable amounts of credit up to six hours per semester and twelve hours total for graduation may be taken fo(which it clearly says are correspondence courses) and says that a student may earn 30 semester hours of credit toward a degree. But it also says that "students attending classes may not enroll in an Independent Studies course at the same time without the written consent of their deans."
Later there's a section on "Special Studies for Credit" where it mentions "Variable amounts of credit up to six hours per semester and twelve hours total for graduation may be taken for graded credit."r graded credit."for graded credit."
A couple of points: If players during this time were taking paper classes, it appears that these would not be 'independent study' classes as defined by the school at the time because they were on-campus and presumably taking actual classes at some point. The only way they could do this would involve express written consent by the Deans. So if UNC wants to argue this point, then they either broke their own policies or the Deans were complicit and should have known what was going on in terms of the large number of athletes and large number of such classes involved. (i.e. the scandal can't be blamed solely on a secretary). So this is an area the NCAA should pursue vigorously IMO.
Otherwise, if the classes fall under "Special Studies for Credit", then it goes back to the earlier issue which was discussed regarding the fact that a student can't use more than 12 hours of these classes for credit towards graduation. (and can't use more than six hours per semester), which goes back to my original comment when this whole scandal started to break, that someone needs to go back and comb through the past few decades of transcripts looking for these types of patterns. (which they finally start to do in exhibit FI249, FI248 etc.)
Remember that part of the NCAA's regulations are that the school has to certify that their athletes are not only taking a minimum number of credits each semester, but that they are 'on-track to graduate'. In cases where an athlete has already taken 12 hours-worth of these classes, then any additional class beyond that would not be applicable towards graduation, which in turn means UNC can't rely on those classes when they certify their athletes are in good standing and eligible for competition.
This helps to explain why Debbie Crowder was deceptive in characterizing many of her bogus paper classes as 'lecture-style' classes, even though there was no lecture and indeed no instruction involved.
Unlike what Bobby claims (saying that the 12 hour rule only came into effect in 2012 well after Crowder left), this 12-hour rule appears to be in place going back to at least 1997-98, and probably far longer.
Starting in 2006-07, the exhibit no longer provides any reference to correspondence classes, but retains the "Special Studies for Credit" section, which still mentions the "Twelve hours of graded special studies credit may be counted toward graduation, though no more than six hours may be taken in any one semester."
Again the supplementary exhibits can be downloaded at the link below:
NCAA NOA supplementary exhibits (pdf)
Curious what other people think.
I was completely shocked by Bobby's claims because every school I have attended or been affliated with had restrictions on these types of classes. The idea that UNC didn't have restrictions was surprising to me. Your research and findings make far more sense, especially for students on campus.
I've said this a couple of times in different ways, but I 100% believe the NCAA worded the NOA in such a way that they had the ability to gauge public reaction to it and then deliver punishment based on it.
The work being done here to dissect the NOA, Dan Kane continuing his reporting and what I suspect are similar efforts at Pack Pride among other entities and interested parties is important because it educates the readers and thus reduces UNC's ability to partner with the NCAA in walking away with a slap on the wrist. It may seem like its just some message board fans talking but its serves a bigger purpose.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a Bobby_G variation floating around on multiple sites trying to marginalize any discussion on the depth and scope of UNC cheating in an effort to protect the men's basketball program as well as hitting comment sections on articles, twitter and other social media. The "see , we told you nothing happened" in the hopes that its taken as gospel and people don't dig into the weeds of the report and addendums.
You'd have thought if Bobbi was a part of any organized effort to marginalize the academic atrocities committed at UNC, they could have mustered a better representative. I've seen a six year old kid present a better argument that their daddy could beat up both King Kong and Godzilla in a fist fight. His key talking point was read this and if you don't agree, read it again. Wash, rinse, repeat. Eventually, it became clear that he hadn't read much of anything as JP Scott rubbed his nose in a variety of smelly documentation more than once. I put the guy on ignore as I thought I was arguing with a child or someone that lacked the mental competence to recognize he was playing the fool.
It is now basically confirmed that bobby is Bradley Bethel. If you want to get a good laugh go to Bethel's blog. He tries to argue that the scandal was driven by academics and not athletics. What he never addresses is why Crowder, who is a basketball booster, did it.
At the core of Bethel's case is blatant racism against blacks whom he obviously believes (and thinks Crowder believes) are completely unable to do college work. So, taking Bethel's contention to the logical conclusion, Crowder gave black students an easy way out of taking Swahili or any other language class, a way out of lecture classes and a way to get college credit and a degree doing virtually no work.
Just finished reading Tarnished Heels . One point made was the amount this continuing fraud made for the university in royalties (25 million in one year) donations , research grants , ticket sales, etc.You'd have thought if Bobbi was a part of any organized effort to marginalize the academic atrocities committed at UNC, they could have mustered a better representative. I've seen a six year old kid present a better argument that their daddy could beat up both King Kong and Godzilla in a fist fight. His key talking point was read this and if you don't agree, read it again. Wash, rinse, repeat. Eventually, it became clear that he hadn't read much of anything as JP Scott rubbed his nose in a variety of smelly documentation more than once. I put the guy on ignore as I thought I was arguing with a child or someone that lacked the mental competence to recognize he was playing the fool.
I do agree with your premise that the NOA was worded to provide the NCAA a lot of latitude in passing judgment and ultimately, punishment. I also think the SACS report took out a lot of the NCAAs wiggle room. I'm guessing the NCAA wishes they had made their ruling quicker and in advance of the SACS thrashing of UNC. Given the SACS report, I also wonder if the easy way out for the NCAA is to harshly penalize UNC right up to the point of avoiding any budgetary impacts. I'm still a bit shocked that we haven't seen a proposal for self-imposed penalty by UNC. However, I've not heard even the hint of that path. It would give both UNC and the NCAA the ethical high road to "recovery".
Still, it seems UNC is hell bent following the North Carolina way. And now we all know what way that is.
Tickle me Elmo hasn't posted on this page of this thread. (Yet...) That is in itself telling as to the direction of this "sitiation"...
Bradley Bethel tweeted that he was going to be "busy" and wouldn't be responding to the N&O article for a week or so. Elmo disappeared at the same time. Kinda obvious that Elmo is Bradley. But, I think most of us already knew that with the style, poor thinking skills and cheap shots at Jay Smith who has chosen to take the high road.
Not Bethel, and JP Scot is wrong with his interpretation of the 12-hour rule. The facts are out there people read them, the NCAA has and will use them in their ruling later.
By all means believe JP, but don't be mad when it doesn't turn out like you think it should. He has a way of twisting around and spinning his arguments, and introducing incomplete and misleading information. I guess you'll see soon enough.
By all means believe JP . . . He has a way of twisting around and spinning his arguments, and introducing incomplete and misleading information.
Bobby, you claimed that the 12-hour rule wasn't relevant until 2012. You seem to have forgotten to explain that discrepancy, or do you still stand behind that? Also you never answered why Crowder took steps to mischaracterize the classes (as early as the late 90's) if you believe they weren't an issue.
UNC is positioning this as a problem with the women's BB team. This after initially pawning it off as a problem with the football team. Once the NCAA hands down punishment, UNC will have their lackeys at ESPN spinning full time that this was primarily a problem with the women's program and that will be where they bear the brunt of the punishment. That's how they see it.
The NCAA has shown zero interest in meaningfully addressing what has went on at UNC and Emmert has carried water for them at every opportunity. Anyone that expects banners to come down is going to be sadly disappointed, IMO.
The banners are the key. If the holes keep them then their cheating worked.