UNC will release NCAA’s Notice of Allegations today
- Thread starter saxonburgcat
- Start date
Very good summary of the conundrum that the desperate UNC fan will never acknowledge till the bat hits them in the face. If the NCAA did not anticipate ineligible players, if they did not find rule infractions, if they thought UNC had great control of their academics and player eligibility, then why the NOA? So simple to understand. So difficult for them to accept. It must drive them to be utterly frantic to know what's coming and there is NOTHING that can stop it.
Not a twitter user so I can't ask but maybe someone could query Bob Ley via twitter to see if he is going to do a follow up story now that UNC*** has been charged with LOIC. Tried to find his email address but that seemed to be a no go.
I am sure Robert and Diane are so proud of their little punk who shoots off his mouth on the internet.
Thanks, no one at ESPN will probably touch this thing until the NCAA hands out penalties but if anybody will I think it would be Bob Ley.
Credit hours explained by SACS. Since I'm pretty sure UNC has already said it didn't approve these classes to be run this way, then the classes failed to meet the requirements by the Federal definition. Hence, they were fraudulent classes. You have your choice here Bobby. Either the classes stand on their own as meeting Federal minimums or the institution has to substantiate the variance. SACS has already said it can't go back and do anything. That does not mean they approve of the classes.
http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/081705/Credit Hours.pdf
http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/081705/Credit Hours.pdf
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He is not blind. As I was trying to tell you earlier he is willfully doing this to antagonize. He is spending so much energy on it that you'd think he was being paid to do it but it must be that he is only getting his jollies from it. (Just a note: No one does what he is doing unless he intends to plead temporary insanity at a later date BUT, is it then pre-meditated???
I look at him as our court jester. I think he's quite fond of his own opinion and frankly I enjoy him spewing it. Nothing underlines UNC and their fans quite like Bobby.
If Bobby really is Bradley, everyone should read this: (Shows the class of Jay Smith while the writings of Bradley are gutter material)
So I have decided not to answer insult with insult. I will trust that my record of integrity speaks for itself. I will, however, make one last (and mercifully brief) effort at peacemaking. After all, one of the great mysteries of Bradley Bethel’s fierce hostility to me and to Mary Willingham is that…it really shouldn’t be this way at all. Bethel knows that on the big issues Mary Willingham is absolutely right. He has conceded that UNC has admitted badly underprepared athletes in the past; he concedes that the paper class system was perpetuated at least in part to help those athletes; he wrote Chancellor Folt eight months ago to complain that “there have been many student-athletes who were specially admitted [at UNC] whose academic preparedness is so low they cannot succeed here.” Both he and Willingham have passionately insisted that all athletes can and should be properly educated and that the University too often falls down on the job. On the fundamentals, in short, there is a broad swath of agreement.
http://paperclassinc.com/jay-smith-starting-bradley-bethel/
Those desperate UNC fans must think that the NCAA has bestowed upon them a 'National Onorary Award'.
- Minny got hammered in '99 a hard one after their tutor admitted to doing 400 papers for 20 players and the coach paid her to do the work. Stipped them of their Final 4 money and appearance.
- The NCAA put Georgia Tech on four years of probation, fined the school $100,000 and stripped its ACC title game victory from the 2009 football season on Thursday for violations that also included problems in the men's basketball program. Their charges were much smaller than what UNC has been proven of doing.
- FSU had all those ineligible unable to play us in the Music City Bowl....
UNC should have ACC tournaments and national championship banners pulled down when compared to what went on at these other schools.
After reading bits and pieces of this thread, I think what the cheat is really trying to get at is if UNC stick to its guns they they can skate by with a technicality. There is really no denying that the classes were fake and put in place to keep athletes eligible, that much is common knowledge. What the cheat is really thinking and trying to get across is if UNC can use it's money and influence they can spin this so the classes were legitimate classes have no punishment and then make amends in private with cash. Almost the exact same thing you see where a criminal will escape prosecution in criminal court and get taken to the cleaners in civil court, pockets a little lighter but reputation still intact.
You can pull all these rules and stipulations you want out of the NCAA rule book to make the program look clean. You can tell yourself whatever you want to make yourself feel better. The fact remains that UNC started cheating long ago. They where not playing within the "Spirit" of what the NCAA standards are. Not for a short time mind you, but long enough that they had slide shows talking about it. The only charge that really means anything right now is the LOIC. With that alone they can do pretty much anything they want to UNC. For over 20 years UNC has thumbed their nose at not only the NCAA, but every other school by making it easier for STUDENT-athletes to compete. Either by giving of grades to keep them eligible, to not having to attend class and lower their workload and stress level. An advantage, unfairly, was given. Everything UNC has been accused of, and shown to be true go's against every fiber of what the NCAA is about. I don't need to see specific rules broken, and frankly if the NCAA does what it was made to do, neither should they. All the evidence they need is right in front of them.
There's no doubt that skating by on a technicality is what these cheats are looking for. As much as they'd like, they can't argue the fact that UNC has been cheating on an institutional level for decades and thumbing their noses at the very ideals of education, honesty and integrity.
Our guest is a perfect example, as he demonstrates on a daily basis the fact that he is dishonest and cares little to nothing about integrity or doing the right thing.
The only thing I disagree with what you wrote is that even if they do skate by and are able to use their hush money to keep everyone quiet, UNC will never keep their reputation intact.
First of all the 'reputation' they cultivated was a lie to begin with. But even assuming it was real, their reputation is already shot and there's no going back. Until the day when they come forward truthfully and honestly admit all of their wrong-doing, and then not only denounce but physically remove the cancer that has enveloped their entire campus, they can never even hope to restore any positive reputation.
Not that I expect them to, since if anything they're going in the wrong direction and have been making poor decisions ever since this scandal came to light.
Please please please let it be that UNC argues that they can designate their classes any way they damn well please (despite the fact that they clearly were not of the format some secretary originally characterized them to be, for the purpose of fraud). Not only will the NCAA laugh in their faces, but hopefully that type of arrogant bravado will get the federal government involved in how UNC has been spending federal dollars for these classes. (which are largely dependent on how the classes are characterized).
I don't know the various rules that were in place at what given times. But regarding the question of whether these courses were in keeping with the University's own policies and whether they were consistent with the athletes staying on track to graduate, what I can say is if they were legitimate, why did Debbie Crowder (who left the University in 2009 BTW) go to such trouble to mischaracterize them in the first place?
BTW, perhaps UNC should put all of their policies, course catalogs etc. for the past 30 years online so it would be easier to track these sorts of things. (I'm still waiting BTW for any evidence which demonstrates that all of these aberrant classes were published in the course catalogs and freely available to any student. Some of the evidence in the NOA appendices seems to suggest that Crowder had to be contacted directly by students and petitioned to be allowed to take some of these courses, which directly contradicts one of UNC's longstanding talking points that 'anyone' could take these courses.)
Complete gobbledygook. Can't concede a point so just state that you are right and then try to change the subject to something else completely.
I saw your 'offer' earlier and frankly thought it bizarre. In what universe would it be seen as a victory for the people of this board to have to endure you returning to this board time and time again?
You've never been honest or forthright from Day 1 and have generally acted like a moronic troll. Any concerns you may have for appearing to be a simpleton frankly can be traced back directly to your own posts. I didn't even know I was in a contest, all I've done is point out some of the more egregious and laughable flaws in your 'logic' (if you want to call it that).
But thinking about it, I have a counter-offer. I will agree to cease commenting on the UNC scandal on this or any other public message board until the time that the NCAA's COI makes their findings public (or some deal is announced). In return you agree to leave this (or any other UK-related) message board completely (either under this username or any other) until the same time.
I think that's reasonable. I'll give you until the end of Friday June 12 to agree or not. (If not then all bets are off and I may just take up bashing UNC full time.)
I hate when the Government sticks their nose in everything but in this case I would have no problem with it. Our tax money was used to pay for an "alleged" education of athletes at UNCheat that they were never provided. This misconduct with Federal monies should be enough for a Congressional hearing on this very case IMO. While investigating this they should also look into why the NCAA was "unable" to uncover all of this when doing the initial investigation years ago. It took a local newspaper reporter to bring it to light when the NCAA couldn't.....or wouldn't.
Of course the answer to this is the NCAA has never really performed a serious investigation of the scandal. Their first move was to send a former UNC football player and booster to Chapel Hill to sound the alarm after all.
If anything the NCAA to date has been complicit in the fraud and the coverup. Rather than do any sort of serious investigative work, the NCAA has instead allowed UNC to perform one futile self-investigation after another. And the ONLY reason any of those self-handicapped studies has borne fruit is directly due to revelations that outside sources (such as Dan Kane at the N & O and PackPride) have uncovered.
The NCAA has to date been negligent with respect to UNC, although the NOA gives some hope they may have finally decided to get serious. If they blow this however, the fate of the NCAA itself as a viable governing body may hang in the balance. Hopefully they realize that by now.
All the evidence points to UNC being guilty and it's an overwhelming amount . Anything that supports UNC's version is based on technicalities , like other students received fraudulent grades . The way UNC has used these technicalities makes the crime look premeditated , they have nothing of proof that gives the illusion that this was a random violation and if it was then they would have encouraged employees to talk such as Crowder or Professor Julius . Instead of admitting to the NCAA that they did this on their own they chose to not even speak to the NCAA but conveniently got any criminal charges dropped .
UNC cheated and designed it in a way that is trying to have no real victims that started the cheating . If UNC got off as a school then who would have paid for the crime ? Crowder , Boxill and the professor walk with money in tow . If they really did do this on their own then how can they get paid with no jail time for it ? That tells you all anybody should need to know about UNC's culpability , they have masterminded this from the start and have done nothing more than run a con that ordinary criminals do .
UNC cheated and designed it in a way that is trying to have no real victims that started the cheating . If UNC got off as a school then who would have paid for the crime ? Crowder , Boxill and the professor walk with money in tow . If they really did do this on their own then how can they get paid with no jail time for it ? That tells you all anybody should need to know about UNC's culpability , they have masterminded this from the start and have done nothing more than run a con that ordinary criminals do .
The NCAA reminds me a lot of NASCAR. They feel they are the only game in town and if you don't like the way they run things there is nothing you can do about it but quit. I am a firm believer that competition is good for anything and maybe the NCAA just needs competition. Nothing would make me happier than to see schools form their own league and tournament and leave the NCAA in shambles. Mark Emmertt and his corrupt band of merry men can go down in flames as far as I am concerned.
I have been ticked off at the NCAA ever since they permanently banned Eric Manuel for something they couldn't even prove to be true. This academic scandal has been proven to be true and until I see it I still don't believe the NCAA will do the right thing in UNC's case.
I have been ticked off at the NCAA ever since they permanently banned Eric Manuel for something they couldn't even prove to be true. This academic scandal has been proven to be true and until I see it I still don't believe the NCAA will do the right thing in UNC's case.
I'm still not sure how serious the NCAA is about punishing UNC. They did their best to whitewash the initial investigation and had no intentions to reopen the investigation after new information surfaced about the academic fraud (Peppers' transcript, McCants' and Willingham's statements etc.) They only agreed to reopen the investigation after they received the Wainstein Report with the email attachments that detailed the scope of the cheating.
I believe the NCAA not only overlooked the evidence of the academic fraud in the initial investigation, but were willing participants in the cover-up. After so much evidence became public they had no choice but to reopen the investigation. I also believe they have crafted the NOA to minimize the punishment to UNC. They had clear evidence of academic fraud (forged signatures, independent studies listed as lecture classes, classes created and overseen by a secretary etc.) but chose to charge UNC with impermissible benefits instead.
I expect the COI to levy some punishment against UNC; I don't think they have much choice. Their own survival may be impacted by their decision in this case. I expect the punishment to only be whatever they believe will do a minimal amount of damage to UNC and ensure their own survival at the same time.
deano and cryroy are CHEATERS. unccheaters include a host of obvious rules breaking and CHEATING.
only woodencheater at uclacheaters comes close to the cheating by unccheaters since deanocheater intsigated the bogus, non attendance classes to permit unqualified basketball players play for the cheating basketball program.
no matter the outcome of the ncaa cover-up----unccheaters will forever be dirty and remembered for their "carolina way"----cheating, lies, cover-up, for over 2 decades--all started by the dirtiest cheat next to wooden--deano smith!!
rr
only woodencheater at uclacheaters comes close to the cheating by unccheaters since deanocheater intsigated the bogus, non attendance classes to permit unqualified basketball players play for the cheating basketball program.
no matter the outcome of the ncaa cover-up----unccheaters will forever be dirty and remembered for their "carolina way"----cheating, lies, cover-up, for over 2 decades--all started by the dirtiest cheat next to wooden--deano smith!!
rr
First, no deal, by all means please keep posting on this topic. Keep telling me how wrong I am and how dumb I am. It will only make the winter more enjoyable.
Second, give me some time to respond to your response, I'm busy.
Finally, I do mean this when I say it, thanks for carrying on this debate. You clearly do your homework, unlike many others here, and know a lot of the facts and precedings. However, I know you're wrong here, but the debates until the COI will be great and I really look forward to having them.
C'mon Bobby after 2 other post calling you out to respond to all of the rental cars the men's basketball players were getting to drive around you are still ignoring me. Isn't that an extra benefit to cruise in a new Escalade, Camaro, etc?
Then how could they have been eligible and if UNC played ineligible players, under the NCAA's strict liability policy, shouldn't UNC have to forfeit games?
Need the UNC allegations banner now!
http://forums.rivals.com/threads/un...tic-accreditation-from-the-sacs.126192/page-2
http://forums.rivals.com/threads/un...tic-accreditation-from-the-sacs.126192/page-2
I am not disagreeing with you JP. Everything you have said is true, UNC will always be the most corrupt and dishonest program that has ever existed. Their name, reputation, and achievements will always be mud.
FWIW, below is an interesting reference for the timeline of events as part of this scandal.
Timeline of North Carolina Scandal
It does a pretty good job IMO but even then misses a lot. The size of the timeline could easily be doubled. For example it doesn't mention Marvin Austin's tweet, Wheels for Heels, the July 2014 senate hearing, P.J. Hairston, Tydreke Powell's interview, Mary Willingham's book, uncovering the Indy Star article about UNC's 2005 team etc.
Neither does it outline many of the earlier events that took place leading to the scandal, such as Nyang'oro's start in Chapel Hill, the formation of the AFAM department, Roy Williams bringing over Wayne Walden, Jennifer Wiley, Marcus Wilson etc. etc. and much more.
Timeline of North Carolina Scandal
It does a pretty good job IMO but even then misses a lot. The size of the timeline could easily be doubled. For example it doesn't mention Marvin Austin's tweet, Wheels for Heels, the July 2014 senate hearing, P.J. Hairston, Tydreke Powell's interview, Mary Willingham's book, uncovering the Indy Star article about UNC's 2005 team etc.
Neither does it outline many of the earlier events that took place leading to the scandal, such as Nyang'oro's start in Chapel Hill, the formation of the AFAM department, Roy Williams bringing over Wayne Walden, Jennifer Wiley, Marcus Wilson etc. etc. and much more.
Just finished reading CHEATERS by Jay Smith & Mary Willingham. I highly recommend it.
It shows, in great, not only the academic fraud that occured, the stats that prove it beyond any question .... but the lengths UNC went to in an attempt to cover the details and frame the discussion.
It also discusses 2 similar cases at Auburn & Michigan that also were covered up as best they could by the leadership at those schools.
Their conclusion sides with the Northwestern athletes, the Ed O'Bannon lawsuit, and Jay Bilas' position of essentially putting academia in charge of teaching, splintering for profit sports into the business/entertainment enterprises they actually are, and stopping the charade of the current model.
No one at UNC can claim any moral high ground with a straight face if they read this book. And if they don't, you can cite details they don't really WANT to know about. It's as bad or worse than "Kentucky Shame" because it's not rich boosters handing out cars or $100 handshakes, although they make it clear that goes on too. It's the actual school, cheating to keep players on the field AND denying those same players the ONE form of compensation the NCAA allows ..... an education.
It shows, in great, not only the academic fraud that occured, the stats that prove it beyond any question .... but the lengths UNC went to in an attempt to cover the details and frame the discussion.
It also discusses 2 similar cases at Auburn & Michigan that also were covered up as best they could by the leadership at those schools.
Their conclusion sides with the Northwestern athletes, the Ed O'Bannon lawsuit, and Jay Bilas' position of essentially putting academia in charge of teaching, splintering for profit sports into the business/entertainment enterprises they actually are, and stopping the charade of the current model.
No one at UNC can claim any moral high ground with a straight face if they read this book. And if they don't, you can cite details they don't really WANT to know about. It's as bad or worse than "Kentucky Shame" because it's not rich boosters handing out cars or $100 handshakes, although they make it clear that goes on too. It's the actual school, cheating to keep players on the field AND denying those same players the ONE form of compensation the NCAA allows ..... an education.
I'd like to see SI do a cover story about "Carolina's Cheating Way." Curry Kirkpatrick could write the story. He probably has some inside knowledge since he's a UNC graduate and a classmate of Larry Brown.
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"as bad or worse?" I'm just amazed that you could author this sentence and combination of words on your own. Exactly how much of a unc fan are you? Boosters or the actual school doing the cheating, where the school systematically goes back on it's word to provide education in exchange for the service of athletic performance. All that needs to be added to the equation is an element of oppression and UNC has engaged a form of institutionalized slavery, my friend, and you claim that it is only "as bad or (possibly) worse" than the conditions summarized by the SI piece against the Kentucky program in the late 80s? Wow. btw, unc doesn't bother using rich boosters to "hand out cars" they use convicted felons (fats) and his job was to rotate brand new rides from the local rental facilities at RDU. he leaves the cash in the glove box.
As bad or (which means "maybe") worse . . . damn . . . and no, this is not the first time I've suspected you (or accused you) of being a unc lap puppy. "maybe" a part-time unc lap puppy.
It's a HELLUVA lot worse
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Weasel got bashed hard over at THR for daring to actually call them out. He was a longtime, respected poster there, or else they would have outright banned him. He lives there, so maybe he doesn't go as hard as most of us do, but he is hardly a TH fan.
I know his story. I know he plays (played) both sides of the fence for the sake of independent perspective. Crafting words while forming opinion statements needs to be performed carefully or one can find themselves marginally outside the scope of independent perspective. And it takes more than just one rejection from the most sensitive message board on planet earth to prove loyalty 'round these parts. You know that well as anybody, SAG.
What is the point of doing that? He doesn't post here in a way that makes you question his loyalty, which is what one would expect from someone trying to pass himself off as a UK fan, while they pretend to be critical of their real team on that board. Doesn't have that feel at all.
The as bad or worse comparison of AFAM vs 88 is pitiful and off base , it's worse by a lot . UNC had as many issues as UK without the AFAM scandal , it's just not being focused on . Wheels for Heels , dentist school , Tami Hansbrough , mouthpieces , already on probation in football that should have encompassed basketball as well , theres more I just can't remember it all . Throw in decades of intentionally giving out free grades and that somehow equates to as bad or worse as if it's even a debate ? UK had issues in 88 but nothing of this magnitude or duration , just a poor take .
Not to mention that UK cooperated with the NCAA while UNC has done anything but assist , in fact they have obstructed the entire process to hide their true nature .
Not to mention that UK cooperated with the NCAA while UNC has done anything but assist , in fact they have obstructed the entire process to hide their true nature .
if by "respected" you mean being treated like a second class citizen........then yes he has been respected over there
they eat there own for stating the truth over there
why would they show any respect to their second class citizen?
i have no doubt that he is a UK fan, which boggles my mind why he wants to be treated like that
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