UNC to meet with NCAA Infractions committee

[KMKAT]

See where Sankey was part of the 6 person committee who took away the virtues of Syracuse basketball and changed the Boeheim retirement plans. Syracuse wanted an end to their multi-year investigation and got what they wanted: closure and acceptance.

In this case, and different than UL, is the fact UNC is deflect, deny, diffuse, and whine about anything negative UNC. That Bubba AD is all about how to weasel out of this without any punishment to his basketball program. That is all this is about and Roy needs to be there in person to take his punishment for stating publically they did nothing wrong.

UNC punishments should be worse than Syracuse and UL combined. There should be no question the penalties that Roy's record will absorb.

Keep in mind that Dean's record will not be touched. That is simply to me incredible based on him assisting in creating this sham of education.

The games Pepper participated in alone should be enough for severe punishments similar to the Rose/Memphis penalties.

He's absolutely right: they should get the death penalty.

I'm good with Uofls penalties except I think they should have gotten a year tournament ban and Pitino should have been suspended for a year

There won't be a death penalty as this has simply dragged on allowing UNC to still compete, which to me is the utmost slap to all schools being allowed to still compete. I guarantee you if they moved the rules to not allow teams under investigation to compete until the probe is complete, there would be lots of teams being more compliant.

UNC's basketball team is about to experience real pain if there is a moral compass at the NCAA.

 

[wildcatwelder]

"The intentional conduct of Nyang'oro and Crowder and ASPSA administrators spanned from 2003 until 2011, which indicates a blatant disregard of basic and well-known NCAA bylaws."

Here's our timeline... 2003 to 2011. That puts the 2005 and 2009 Titles squarely on the chopping block.

I haven't read any further into this thread, but wanted to say thank you for posting what you have thus far gossie.

Those Cheating Bastards may get the proverbial slap on the wrist, but after reading the responses you've posted from the NCAA have given me hope. They do at least understand what the hell those Cheating Bastards did, so I now have a renewed measure of hope those Cheating Bastards will get what they deserve, and both titles will be removed.

Thank you sir.

 

[LTDukeFan]

Why is the meeting in Nashville?

They are going to write a Country & Western ballad about it, sell the song to a recording label, and use the royalties to pay for their lawyer bills.

Having it in Nashville will speed the process.

 

[the stat man]

I wonder if Ole Roy is going to bring some Coke Colers for the committee when they have to talk about all this cheating junk that has been going on for the last twenty years ?

 

[Orville Boggs]

I wonder if Ole Roy is going to bring some Coke Colers for the committee when they have to talk about all this cheating junk that has been going on for the last twenty years ?

Don't forget the Moon Pie's!

 

[Orville Boggs]

any word if Rashad McCants is invited?

 

[jameslee32]

When the NCAA cut out 10 years of violations identified in the Wainstein report, I was skeptical anything would happen. And although momentum is building for the illegalities of the remaining 9 years, I prefer to remain cautious that anything meaningful will happen. Thumbing your nose at your regulator isn't a crime in itself unfortunately.

 

[UKFAN4L]

Why is the meeting in Nashville?

Tootsie's.

 

[awf]

While I believe you are correct, I remember the NCAA threatening Memphis when they appealed that they were going to consider harsher penalties.

Well, the NCAA apparently doesn't like Memphis. The stole a FF from them because Rose refused to talk to them about his scores. Dukes people wouldn't talk and the NCAA said, they couldn't force them to talk?

 

[gossie21]

Well, the NCAA apparently doesn't like Memphis. The stole a FF from them because Rose refused to talk to them about his scores. Dukes people wouldn't talk and the NCAA said, they couldn't force them to talk?

Yep. The one minor difference is that the ETS invalidated Rose's ACT score, so the NCAA didn't need Rose to talk. Someone else did their dirty work for them.

 

[preacherfan]

Yep. The one minor difference is that the ETS invalidated Rose's ACT score, so the NCAA didn't need Rose to talk. Someone else did their dirty work for them.

How many games has UNLV vacated for playing a player who had his SAT invalidated?

 

[gossie21]

How many games has UNLV vacated for playing a player who had his SAT invalidated?

I would guess zero. I'm not aware of that one.

And I'm not saying I agree with the NCAA's decision. It was a terrible miscarriage of justice on a number of levels. I'm just glad it was at Memphis and not at UK.

 

[UKnCincy]

How many games has UNLV vacated for playing a player who had his SAT invalidated?

Big difference in how Memphis handled their situation compared to UNLV. Memphis was asking for trouble.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

Big difference in how Memphis handled their situation compared to UNLV. Memphis was asking for trouble.

Fair enough but... He Was cleared by the NCAA to play?

If I'm coach and the NCAA basically says "ok he's good to go" I would play said person as well.

 

[cawoodsct]

F UNC

 

[JPScott]

Well, the NCAA apparently doesn't like Memphis. The stole a FF from them because Rose refused to talk to them about his scores. Dukes people wouldn't talk and the NCAA said, they couldn't force them to talk?

Memphis: Derrick Rose doesn't speak to NCAA and they hold it against them

Duke: Lance Thomas refuses to speak with NCAA and they shrug it off, claiming their hands are tied

Kentucky: Eric Manuel cooperates with the NCAA but they ban him from playing because what he told them wasn't what they wanted to hear

 

[Wall Knight Teague]

Memphis: Derrick Rose doesn't speak to NCAA and they hold it against them

Duke: Lance Thomas refuses to speak with NCAA and they shrug it off, claiming their hands are tied

Kentucky: Eric Manuel cooperates with the NCAA but they ban him from playing because what he told them wasn't what they wanted to hear

What's your prediction of what will happen to UNC now that the NCAA appears disinclined to buy their lame-ass excuses?

 

[preacherfan]

Big difference in how Memphis handled their situation compared to UNLV. Memphis was asking for trouble.

Agree with you. However, I was never comfortable with the explanations I read from the NCAA about how Rose was ineligible from day 1 due to the invalidated test score. In reality, he was ineligible from day 1 because Memphis chose to play him when there was a question about his test score. UNLV gets off the hook by simply suspending the player late in the year. Why wasn't that player declared ineligible from day 1???

 

[JPScott]

These are the facts that everyone agrees on:

1) UNC turned an entire "academic" department into a de facto athlete grade factory. They intentionally steered athletes from virtually every team to these classes. [BTW: kids, if you want a job, never major in anything that ends with "studies"]
2) These classes were insanely easy. Sometimes they only required a single paper and that paper was very often written for the kid by someone in the department.
3) When this arrangement was made public the university tacitly admitted they were in the wrong by firing several members of the department.

If this was the only thing that happened, then I'd say they'd get anywhere from a slap on the wrists to long-term probation.

However:

1) After the fact, UNC doubled-down on self-righteousness. They stalled, they delayed, they stonewalled. The department heads flatly refused to talk to the NCAA.
2) They claimed, feebly, that because the sham classes were given to non-athletes that they weren't "special benefits". Think about that logic for a moment: if a school bribed an athlete and then bribed a non-athlete, how does that make the initial bribery ok? It's absurd on its face. "It's ok, honey. Sure, I slept with your sister, but I slept with your cousin too, so it's not really adultery." See how that flies.
3) And here is the big one: throughout the process, UNC has adopted that attitude that the NCAA has no authority over them, that not only did they do nothing wrong, but the NCAA doesn't even have the right to judge them. This is poking the bear with a burning stick. If there is one thing the NCAA hates is when schools question their authority. In such cases, they usually go Old Testament on them. (Which makes since, since Yahweh didn't take sh!t off anyone either).

This is why I think the NCAA drops the hammer on UNC. They need to send a message to other teams that stalling will not save you and flaunting the authority of the NCAA will not be tolerated.

This is all true, but don't lose sight of the big picture either. This AFAM studies issue is really just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the potential wrong-doing UNC was involved in over the past decade at least.

I've been meaning to do this for a while and finally took the time to make a handy little graphic which illustrates at least part of my take on this scandal.

I'd appreciate any suggestions/critique of the graphic as I plan on using this often in the future.

 

[JPScott]

What's your prediction of what will happen to UNC now that the NCAA appears disinclined to buy their lame-ass excuses?

Ever since news of the scandal broke I advised that UNC should just come clean, basically clean house of everyone involved and start new. (basically what UK did in the late 80's) If they had done this, it would have hurt but it would be long-gone by now and I believe they would already be back near the top of college basketball and athletics in general.

They obviously didn't choose that route, instead tried to hamstring, water-down and delay as much as they possibly could. They were rewarded by winning the 2017 NCAA but they still need to face the music.

I've always thought that UNC should have their 2005 title at least stripped (not convinced about their 2009 title unless I see the transcripts of all of those players).

Whether the NCAA comes through, I don't know. I'm hopeful but the NCAA has notoriously been inconsistent in the past and has a shameful record of protecting their sacred cows at all costs to their own credibility.

After the first ANOA I thought that UNC had largely gotten off, but through their hubris, they unwisely chose to challenge even that and it resulted in them getting what I consider to be a more realistic ANOA in return.

 

[kybassfan]

This is all true, but don't lose sight of the big picture either. This AFAM studies issue is really just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the potential wrong-doing UNC was involved in over the past decade at least.

I've been meaning to do this for a while and finally took the time to make a handy little graphic which illustrates at least part of my take on this scandal.

I'd appreciate any suggestions/critique of the graphic as I plan on using this often in the future.

Priceless. Great as it sits. If you want suggestions, replace green pea with basketball. Use football bullet indicators on red text rows. Change title from royal blue title to baby blue color that NC uses.

Watch yourself doing this. Most of us are just faceless babbling internet entities. Your handle engenders credibility. At some point, lawyers for this filthy institution will shift from damage control to image preservation. Wouldn't shock me to see them go after some of their more credible critics in an effort to rebuild the brand.

 

[JPScott]

Bet Jay Bilas is pissed.

Bilas recently talked to a Charlotte radio station (WFNZ) and he didn't disappoint, steadfastly holding on to the idea that the NCAA has no jurisdiction when a school uses academic fraud in order to keep its athletes eligible.

Link to Interview on WFNZ

Bilas seems to be hung up on the fact that the NCAA has charged UNC with impermissible benefits rather than academic fraud, but as I remember @UKnCincy has explained in the past the ONLY reason the NCAA was doing this was because UNC themselves has yet to admit to academic fraud. (correct me if I'm wrong) If UNC had admitted as such, then that would have shown up in the Notice of Allegations.

Bilas is a two-faced weasel. Half the time he complains that the NCAA has too many rules, and then the other half of the time he argues that there's no specific rule that was broken (even though UNC blatantly broke multiple core principles of the organization along with a number of specific rules) so the NCAA can't do anything.

Bilas goes on to reinforce the idea that if the NCAA doesn't rule in UNC's favor, that UNC can take it to court and win. I doubt the court will even take the case. And if they do, I hope the NCAA takes the gloves off and demonstrates that UNC being a 'cooperative partner' in this investigation has been a sham from the get-go

As far as I'm concerned, if UNC wants to evade being punished by the organization that it is a member of, then UNC should just leave the NCAA.

 

[JPScott]

Even the worthless John Feinstein is demanding the NCAA take a title or two. Of course he gets his shot in on the one and dones as well..


http://radio.cbssports.com/2017/07/26/feinstein-ncaa-must-hammer-unc-for-academic-fraud/

Overall I applaud Feinstein for the article. I tweeted out my response with a few specific comments which I'll largely reprint below:

Not a fan of Feinstein but will give him credit for taking the right stand on UNC scandal.

Point shaving is serious issue, but generally due to individual students. Schools are responsible for not steering them away from gamblers hard enough but hard to completely control. Issues like bringing in hookers, paying players & widespread cheating, on the other hand, can only take place through institutional cheating. And thus the institution bears a higher responsibility in the eyes of the NCAA.

Not only did Carolina fight NCAA at every turn, UNC intentionally steered investigations, misled, doctored results & ultimately delayed the investigation hoping to lessen penalties. The new NCAA is designed to have schools self-report violations and self-investigate. UNC has NEVER been a cooperative partner with NCAA.

Sandusky had nothing to do with academics, but more critically nothing to do with Penn State's recent success on football field at time. The NCAA was created to regulate athletic eligibility, recruiting & rules of competition. Penn State case did not apply to these issue. UNC clearly does apply, because the fraud resulted in making otherwise ineligible athletes eligible.

 

[JPScott]

Feinstein article response continued:

One-and-Done does NOT mean players don't take classes. Maybe at places like LSU, but not everywhere. Providing a real education can still be done, even if done for one year. The NCAA's criteria is to give an education to keep athletes on the path to graduation. Schools can still fulfill this mission by providing a quality education to players who end up leaving after one, two or three years. Those schools that don't fulfill this mission should correctly be criticized.

Roy Williams was paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in bonus money for UNC team's 'academic success'. Not knowing the classes his players were taking either makes him a hypocrite or liar. Neither is something to be proud of.

 

[TM2013]

I hope the Adderall scandal eventually blows up too. Emails show that they basically got all their athletes doctor scripts for Adderall, set up by advisors. Soooooo shady and illegal

http://www.bluedevilicious.com/ld-adhd-testing-documents-at-unc.html

 

[KMKAT]

Memphis: Derrick Rose doesn't speak to NCAA and they hold it against them

Duke: Lance Thomas refuses to speak with NCAA and they shrug it off, claiming their hands are tied

Kentucky: Eric Manuel cooperates with the NCAA but they ban him from playing because what he told them wasn't what they wanted to hear

Excellent points, as usual Jon.

How about this? Since the Ole Miss phone records are public record, where are Roy's phone logs? Since Roy says they did nothing wrong, wouldn't you like to see those records to see who he's been talking to, like covering up EVERYTHING basketball?

FYI, Rashaad McCants phone number will not be in there.

 

[Ryan Lemonds Diary]

They are going to write a Country & Western ballad about it, sell the song to a recording label, and use the royalties to pay for their lawyer bills.

Having it in Nashville will speed the process.

I hear the name of it will be "There's a tear in my Cocolar cause the NCAA screwed us over"