Time To Take A Hard Look and Address Things

[SmedMoley]

I’m sorry for the name calling, I’ll just go after the players and coach like you all do.

Why do you keep deflecting? Who said to go after the coach and players. You're struggling to be coherent. Just whatever you're trying to say no need for names.
As to going after coaches and players I've not seen anyone calling either of them names? I've seen criticism but this is a message board. Not Cal's Facebook page.

 

[morgousky]

I’m sorry for the name calling, I’ll just go after the players and coach like you all do.

No stick to the name calling. I never understood the conventional wisdom on this one. "calling people names doesn't get your point across". Of course it does. Asshole is more effective than "excuse me sir". You get the point quick.

 

[bnewt]

I will disagree with this. Head to head, Cal owns Pitino.
He beat Pitinos best team and maybe UK'S best team with Marcus Camby and 4 other dudes.
The guy can coach. The problem is for some reason his offense is horrible now. Have to have guys who can hit shots. Space the floor. Move without the ball. Screen and cut back door. They do none of that.

and who's fault is that............it's Cal's
whose fault is it Sarr doesn't get the ball in scoring position..........Cal's
whose fault is it the team has to rebuild every year....Cal's

 

[morgousky]

and who's fault is that............it's Cal's
whose fault is it Sarr doesn't get the ball in scoring position..........Cal's
whose fault is it the team has to rebuild every year....Cal's

Not in Cawood's case, but most of the time, this sort of comeback is how I know some people have just bought Cal's BS to the point where they can't use simple logic.

You cannot, ever, bring up youth when it's clearly a choice, and a choice Cal makes about as bad as possible. It literally cannot be used. But they do.

 

[CatsIndy2010]

if we are NIT bound, I might consider this thread.

 

[clevenger32]

So it’s dump on Tubby time in a thread about Cal. Par for the course for some

For example, you posted Tubby quit recruiting, which is BS. He WAS up and down in his recruiting but had Draymond Green coming in to join PPat and Meeks And maybe the Lucas kid would have joined them. He would have had some of his best teams but had to leave when he lost the fan base.

Read my point. Winning UK Championships became secondary with both. You can point to Draymond Green if you want but a whole cadre of Orbzuts who he stole from Farleigh Dickinson and others that good D-II schools might have passed on became the norm. Tubby blew it. He has all the resources he needed and let it go

 

[warrior-cat]

A successful person takes a honest assessment of what they are doing and how they are doing it in order to adapt and get better. It's time that is done now. What needs to be addressed?

Players leaving early year after year that should not be is killing us. It's obvious we need a blend of new guys and guys who can steady us etc.

Players transferring year in and year out. If they don't want to be here fine, but don't just make it the norm.

It's past time to make it about UK and not the player. That ship has sailed.

Refusing to play and use very capable spot up shooters correctly. This would help the offense year in and year out.

An upgrade in the staff. Lucas was an obvious upgrade. But I'm not sure how good the rest are. Do they push Cal or are they yes men?

Take a look at your approach and your system. Is it working? Does it fit the times? Do players (the best of the best) really want to grind like this.

Stop trying to sell a mislabeled bill of goods. Slick and snarky talk is fine if you're on top. But when you are producing mediocrity you cannot afford to be that way.

Above all I think a true evaluation is needed and stop being so stubborn in so many things and ways.

Anything to add? Omit?

Nope, you pretty much nailed it.

 

[SmedMoley]

No stick to the name calling. I never understood the conventional wisdom on this one. "calling people names doesn't get your point across". Of course it does. Asshole is more effective than "excuse me sir". You get the point quick.

Well Morg it's also one of the rules of the board and catch a mod on a bad day and they'll ban you. Not that it's the end of the world. But I think we can all manage to be civil on here.

And I do think if you need to resort to names you don't have a strong point. That's just me.

 

[LukaszObrzut87]

Why do you keep deflecting? Who said to go after the coach and players. You're struggling to be coherent. Just whatever you're trying to say no need for names.
As to going after coaches and players I've not seen anyone calling either of them names? I've seen criticism but this is a message board. Not Cal's Facebook page.

Your the one deflecting on the name calling stuff. Again sorry for calling you a name sir.

 

[madcat912]

The problem is Cal has created a monster in that the kids and the people around them think if they come to Kentucky then your one and done, which has caused several kids to leave that were 3 or 4 year players the whole time.

Cal does make very good NBA players, the problem is he has made UK an NBA development program.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

When jedwar is fed up you know there’s been a shift.

Yes, there has. Deserved too. It’s a...culture shift too in a way. 2020 has been insane.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

Spot on. The standard line for the last few years is always, "Hey it's December, wait till you see this team in March".
I have seen these teams in March, and not only have we not made it to a final four, 3 of the last 4 years we have had our season ended by a higher seed in March. People need to realize that things have been very different during Cal's tenure since the Wisconsin loss. Very different.

Wisconsin loss was what broke me at 1st.

 

[SmedMoley]

Your the one deflecting on the name calling stuff. Again sorry for calling you a name sir.

I doubt you even know what I'm talking about.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

And that's the thing, Cal doesn't deny this. Not in his recruiting, nor in how he communicates his intentions at UK.


It's why I asked in in earlier post in this thread; do you think Cal constructed this team with winning a national title in mind? Does Cal recruit players that he thinks will help UK win a national title? Does Cal advise any players on their futures with a national title for UK in mind?


I don't think it can be denied the quality of man that John Calipari is. He's a philanthropist at heart. He attends Mass habitually. He recruits high character kids. He told us himself that he's trying to pull kids out of generational poverty into potential generational wealth. He has never lied about that.


To put it bluntly, I think Cal's main objective at UK is to help get kids to the next level. He's trying to change lives. Thats it. I think in his mind if he wins a national title along the way, even better. But that's not really what's important to him.


I think once he won it in 2012, he was satisfied. And I think he made a promise to devote his life to being about others and helping these kids achieve their dreams. And its 100% a noble cause, but I think UK fans are awakening to the fact that it certainly doesn't serve their purposes, at the expense of being called selfish over the notion.


So with that being said, is Askew the type of kid that you recruit at PG with the intentions of winning a national title? Well if he stays till he's a junior and senior then he can certainly develop into that. But we all know that he won't, and its fairly clear, at least early on, that he's not anywhere close to being the type of PG to lead a national title contending team.


So I ask again, why would Cal recruit Askew knowing that he won't be good enough as a freshmen to lead us to a title, and yet he will still likely leave after a year or two? The answer?.....He didn't recruit him with the intentions of helping Kentucky build a team capable of winning a title. He recruited him because he has a high ranking out of high school, and Cal can take him, and others just like him, and get them to the next level. And that's all that matters. It's really that simple. And Cal's never lied to us about that.

Very well stated.

 

[TankedCat]

Very well stated.

I've said it multiple times - After the championship, Cal made a conscious decision to build a legacy - and it wasn't winning national championships. You'll see Cal being honored a few years from now for all he has done for the players, and there will be a giant love fest of former players that made it to the NBA giving speeches about how they wouldn't be where they are without Cal

but what won't be mentioned is UK as a program was diminished once he changed his focus. If the media , fans or administration talks about that, then they are putting the program ahead of these kids.

people will jump on this and talk about his winning stats and try to slant it as its ridiculous to expect a final four every year but its obvious to everyone that UK's focus on basketball has changed from 2010 to now.

And Cal has purposely insulated himself from the criticism of that by how he has manipulated the fan base, the media and the UK administration. "You can't steal my joy" "We're a players first organization" "Be mad at me, not them" "That's somebodies son out there" "We're letting these kids live their dream" "We're wiping out generational poverty"

At one time I bought into it all like the good little drone I was, but its all b.s. now. Its cover to prevent backlash. And it works because UK is the perfect fanbase to manipulate. We hang on every word the coach says, he can do no wrong as UK is in the spotlight, in the conversation of college basketball and we beat Louisville. Once Cal won the national championship, he said it himself, it was as if a weight was lifted off his shoulders. And he was in the perfect place now to ride that moment out.

 

[TankedCat]

He didn't recruit him with the intentions of helping Kentucky build a team capable of winning a title. He recruited him because he has a high ranking out of high school, and Cal can take him, and others just like him, and get them to the next level. And that's all that matters. It's really that simple. And Cal's never lied to us about that.

and if he didn't take him, then he wouldn't be able to recruit the next Devin Askew because 1. he'd be saddled with a 4 year kid 2. His reputation of getting kids into the NBA would be tarnished. Even when a kid transfers that helps because it opens up a spot for another 5 star that can be on UK's NBA league poster one day. I seriously doubt Cal cares if a once hopeful one and done that turns into a multi-year player transfers out.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

If UK was 3-0, few posters would complain about the one and dones. . Hell, if UK played with prison inmates and won, Big Blue Nation could rationalize accepting another national title on the basis of giving the players a second chance or that we were helping to rehabilitate these inmates. Winning cures most of the griping except for a few who will always find something to gripe about.

But they’re not 3-0. They’re 1-2, ya know?

 

[FrankUnderwood]

Your the one deflecting on the name calling stuff. Again sorry for calling you a name sir.

Nobody so far in the thread have “bashed” Cal or the players but you seem to think so? Or take it personally for some reason. Can you elaborate?

 

[LowCountryCat]

This thread is EXACTLY the same tone as the ones talking about Tubby right before he left.

 

[Kampus Korner]

But they’re not 3-0. They’re 1-2, ya know?

Wow! I didn’t know that. Thanks for sharing.

 

[UK90]

we gave the guy a lifetime contract. That is what we demanded from Cal to stop flirting with the NBA.

Well, it was actually his flirtation with UCLA, not the NBA, that got him that “lifetime” contract.

And, in retrospect, I kinda wish Mitch would’ve just let him jump to UCLA, instead of panicking and handing out the most insanely lucrative and secure contract ever. Because that contract now guarantees we’re gonna be together for a long time, whether we like it or not. We can’t fire him now, not with that buyout. And nobody, not in the NBA or anywhere else, is gonna pay him what he’s still owed by UK.

This could end up feeling like a bad marriage where the two sides no longer want to be together, but the contract keeps them together anyways.

 

[TankedCat]

Well, to be accurate, it was actually his flirtation with UCLA, not the NBA, that got him that “lifetime” contract.

And, in retrospect, I kinda wish Mitch would’ve just let him jump to UCLA, instead of panicking and handing out the most insanely lucrative and secure contract ever. Because that contract now guarantees we’re gonna be together for a long time, whether we like it or not. We can’t fire him now, not with that buyout. And nobody, not in the NBA or anywhere else, is gonna pay him what he’s still owed by UK.

This could end up feeling like a bad marriage where the two sides no longer want to be together, but the contract keeps them together anyways.

I don't think Cal will let it come to that. The contract basically lets him decide when its time to leave.

His relationship with the fanbase will drive that.

 

[JohnBlue_]

You guys better be careful about marrying an opinion, that bitch will make your life miserable when you have to give up your freedom of thought just to make sure that narrative is never cheated on.

 

[Woodrow_Call_1998]

A lot of people forget that Cal can adapt. I know he’s stubborn and I hate that aspect of his personality but he will adapt before he lets this one and done system tarnish his career. I was hoping when he hired bruiser, that he was doing so to try to change direction with how he builds his rosters. Bruiser and Robic were with him when he was at Umass, and like I said in another thread.he can win without these 5 star players. His Umass teams were tough and I’m sure other posters on this board remember that as well.

 

[morgousky]

I've said it multiple times - After the championship, Cal made a conscious decision to build a legacy - and it wasn't winning national championships. You'll see Cal being honored a few years from now for all he has done for the players, and there will be a giant love fest of former players that made it to the NBA giving speeches about how they wouldn't be where they are without Cal

but what won't be mentioned is UK as a program was diminished once he changed his focus. If the media , fans or administration talks about that, then they are putting the program ahead of these kids.

people will jump on this and talk about his winning stats and try to slant it as its ridiculous to expect a final four every year but its obvious to everyone that UK's focus on basketball has changed from 2010 to now.

And Cal has purposely insulated himself from the criticism of that by how he has manipulated the fan base, the media and the UK administration. "You can't steal my joy" "We're a players first organization" "Be mad at me, not them" "That's somebodies son out there" "We're letting these kids live their dream" "We're wiping out generational poverty"

At one time I bought into it all like the good little drone I was, but its all b.s. now. Its cover to prevent backlash. And it works because UK is the perfect fanbase to manipulate. We hang on every word the coach says, he can do no wrong as UK is in the spotlight, in the conversation of college basketball and we beat Louisville. Once Cal won the national championship, he said it himself, it was as if a weight was lifted off his shoulders. And he was in the perfect place now to ride that moment out.

Not many people have understood Cal since he's been at UK. But you got the guy.

This is the type of thing I've been trying to explain here for years. Kentucky is the best fan base to manipulate if you're Calipari. And he does it so well. You're not even allowed to criticize him and his system or you're a bad person who looks at "these kids" (all above 18 btw) like they're an object.

"that's somebodies son" - LMAO. Yea, it is. They've always been someone's son. Has nothing to do with anything. But the fan base buys it, make's em feel warm.

And Cal gets his hundreds of millions to coach those (kid) millionaires.

If anyone really thinks about it, logically, it's the most absurd bullshit I've ever heard.

 

[morgousky]

Well, it was actually his flirtation with UCLA, not the NBA, that got him that “lifetime” contract.

And, in retrospect, I kinda wish Mitch would’ve just let him jump to UCLA, instead of panicking and handing out the most insanely lucrative and secure contract ever. Because that contract now guarantees we’re gonna be together for a long time, whether we like it or not. We can’t fire him now, not with that buyout. And nobody, not in the NBA or anywhere else, is gonna pay him what he’s still owed by UK.

This could end up feeling like a bad marriage where the two sides no longer want to be together, but the contract keeps them together anyways.

Cal would have never in a million years left UK for UCLA. If it wasn't stupid Mitch that fell for it, I'd be shocked.

Mitch should have told him you haven't won enough, and we don't owe you that. Kick rocks.

Real simple, you want a lifetime contract? Win another title.

He showed Cal his hand, and Cal played it.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

Wow! I didn’t know that. Thanks for sharing.

No problem man.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

@morgousky on a tear trying to get people to “see the truth.” We get it brother, we know how you feel. However, some just aren’t there yet. It’s ok, you don’t have to lead a crusade. If you are correct, we will all know it soon enough. We aren’t in a war, you’re not trying to save the world. I get some of your points, but I have my own thoughts. Someone on the opposite side of the argument thinks you are the crazy one. Works both ways. Much love.

 

[Cut-Nets21]

You guys better be careful about marrying an opinion, that bitch will make your life miserable when you have to give up your freedom of thought just to make sure that narrative is never cheated on.

Eeeh, your boy's done, John. And you know it.

You might consider taking your own advice, because you're bought-in. Hook, line, and sinker.

 

[specialkd24]

I'm disappointed we haven't won more titles too (my interest level has gone down). Had we gone 40-0 everything would have been different. But we didn't.

I don't have the updates, but after the 2019 Tournament in his 10 years at UK Cal was first nationally in overall wins, first in NCAA Tournament wins and first in Final Four appearances in his tenure. Outside of winning every title, what more can you expect of him?

We've had bad luck in the tournament. Refs screwed us in 2017 when we had the best team ... we should have beaten Auburn in 2019. Would you feel differently had we made the Final Four in one of those years?

I agree he should recruit more 3-4 year players and not totally turn over the roster every year.

 

[CB3UK]

Is the product worth buying a ticket for? To me, the question is that simple with all this.

 

[UK90]

Cal would have never in a million years left UK for UCLA. If it wasn't stupid Mitch that fell for it, I'd be shocked.

Mitch should have told him you haven't won enough, and we don't owe you that. Kick rocks.

Real simple, you want a lifetime contract? Win another title.

He showed Cal his hand, and Cal played it.

Well, Mitch certainly thought he was serious about UCLA, because that’s what prompted him to offer up the all-time mother of all contract extensions.

If meeting with UCLA was just a bluff by Cal, then it was a damn good bluff. UK bit hook, line and sinker.

 

[morgousky]

Well, Mitch certainly thought he was serious about UCLA, because that’s what prompted him to offer up the all-time mother of all contract extensions.

If meeting with UCLA was just a bluff by Cal, then it was a damn good bluff. UK bit hook, line and sinker.

UK90 you don't honestly believe Cal would have started over at UCLA, on the west coast, in the PAC12, because Kentucky didn't offer him hundreds of millions of dollars for life?

 

[CB3UK]

We had to go through this same thing with Tubby. Coach too stubborn to change methodology, knew better than the fans, etc.

Many of us have said this stuff for years and years. I guess some people have the ability to see the forest for the tree and some dont.

None of that means that Cal CAN'T fix this stuff, if he wants to. As I said before, he has fawk you money, so he isnt liable to change. Hes doing what he wants a d this is more like a retirement thing where hes affecting the change in peoples lives the way he actually has wanted to all his life and now has the resources to do it.

Well, thats noble, but UK didnt become UK by running the ****ing Make a Wish foundation. We can be UK focused AND send kids to the NBA believe it or not Coach.

 

[SmedMoley]

We had to go through this same thing with Tubby. Coach too stubborn to change methodology, knew better than the fans, etc.

Many of us have said this stuff for years and years. I guess some people have the ability to see the forest for the tree and some dont.

None of that means that Cal CAN'T fix this stuff, if he wants to. As I said before, he has fawk you money, so he isnt liable to change. Hes doing what he wants a d this is more like a retirement thing where hes affecting the change in peoples lives the way he actually has wanted to all his life and now has the resources to do it.

Well, thats noble, but UK didnt become UK by running the ****ing Make a Wish foundation. We can be UK focused AND send kids to the NBA believe it or not Coach.

"Maybe one day Unicef will get into coaching college basketball. Until that time UK is about winning championships"

 

[kyjeff1]

Not many people have understood Cal since he's been at UK. But you got the guy.

This is the type of thing I've been trying to explain here for years. Kentucky is the best fan base to manipulate if you're Calipari. And he does it so well. You're not even allowed to criticize him and his system or you're a bad person who looks at "these kids" (all above 18 btw) like they're an object.

"that's somebodies son" - LMAO. Yea, it is. They've always been someone's son. Has nothing to do with anything. But the fan base buys it, make's em feel warm.

And Cal gets his hundreds of millions to coach those (kid) millionaires.

If anyone really thinks about it, logically, it's the most absurd bullshit I've ever heard.

Yeah, Allen, Baker, Juzang and many others "are somebody's son" too. But one mistake and they get screamed at and parked on the bench, sometimes for the rest of the game.

2019 E8 agsinst Auburn, Baker fouled a 3 point shooter, never saw the court again… .transferred out and you would have to bring some solid proof to the table to convince me he wasn't treated diffetently because he wasn't an NBA prospect. The kid was playing great before that one bad play.

We really could have used him late in the 2nd half and overtime when the rest of our guards were gassed, couldn't guard anyobody and couldn't hit free throws.

Meanwhile, Hagans turned the ball over 4 damn times in a row, got blown by multiple times, because he lost his legs, but still gambled to get steels and shot bricks trying to be the hero.

Speaking of Herro, kid never got open shots in that game, because he's expected to create his own open shots.

People on this board ask all the time, "how is Cal supposed to keep kids at UK, that's not possible anymore". Bullsh*t. Jay Wright, Williams, Beard, Stevens etc… all manage(d) to do it and they do it by treating all their kids the same, because they want to build strong veteran rosters.

I almost think Cal does this to have an excuse to keep his NBA talent on the floor so they flourish. Some say it's to get the next set of 5* guys, but guess what, those top 5 studs aren't coming to UK anymore, so we end up with projects anyway.

 

[RKulmer]

Not suggesting we bring Pitino back, but can you imagine what he would do with the talent on this team? They'd be making 10 3's a game. Full court press, etc.

LOL.

 

[kybassfan]

No stick to the name calling. I never understood the conventional wisdom on this one. "calling people names doesn't get your point across". Of course it does. Asshole is more effective than "excuse me sir". You get the point quick.

That’s my theory. Don’t want anyone guessing what I’m thinking.

 

[UKortho]

All Beard has to do is win a game against Louisville...that will solidify a portion of the fans. LOL.

Cal is not going anywhere and as I said, who is going to have a conversation with him to tell him he needs to change? Eli isn't, and Mitch is a clown. Some ex player?

Players come to UK because of Cal. Name me another coach who is going to come in and recruit like Cal?

 

[UKortho]

Other than an org chart on paper, I get the feeling that Mitch reports to Cal.