Time To Take A Hard Look and Address Things

[AzubuikeandFitch]

We are guard weak. Given Cal's offense (if you wanna call it that) it's imperative to have guys capable of creating scoring opportunities. We lack players who can consistently make shots off the dribble or breakdown the defense and find the open man.

 

[AlbanyWildCat]

I am a huge Kentucky Basketball supporter. Supporting the coach comes with that. Exception was BCG. I jumped off that ship after year one. I have supported Cal quite a bit. I see his faults however.

I am now at a crossroads. I need Cal to change. We all do. We should have at least two more championships than we do now, and I personally blame Cal for losing them; one by poor bench coaching, and the other just due to the FACT that he can’t get a fair whistle. Don’t kid yourself into thinking that isn’t his own fault. It is. He made that bed by being Cal.

So, my thoughts now are - will he change. If he did, no doubt he could have monster success moving forward. May take two years, but he could get back. Does he have the balls and determination he once did? I don’t know. I think the dudes tired. Seems he’s been trying to cultivate his next career, on TV doing something in broadcasting; and not really focusing on what he needs to do with his current one.

I’ll tell you this, if we end this season with no final four, AND we lose half our roster again to the NBA (where they havent actually earned it through play) and transfers (Allen, Ware, Fletcher, etc) - I will be pretty much done with Cal. We lose before a final four and keep a roster in tact to build on; maybe I can live with it for a bit longer.

so, let’s see how this goes. But for the love of God Cal, stop the bullshit verbal diarrhea. Keep it straight, no garbage excuses, and just be honest.

I'm going to let you in on a secret, but we will probably end this season with no final four, AND we will more than likely lose half our roster again to the NBA (where they haven't actually earned it through play) and transfers (Allen, Ware, Fletcher, etc)...High probability

If this is truly how you felt, then just sign off now.

Not sure who at UK is going to force Cal to change. I'm laughing as I type Mitch's name....we gave the guy a lifetime contract. That is what we demanded from Cal to stop flirting with the NBA.

 

[SmedMoley]

A successful person takes a honest assessment of what they are doing and how they are doing it in order to adapt and get better. It's time that is done now. What needs to be addressed?

Players leaving early year after year that should not be is killing us. It's obvious we need a blend of new guys and guys who can steady us etc.

Players transferring year in and year out. If they don't want to be here fine, but don't just make it the norm.

It's past time to make it about UK and not the player. That ship has sailed.

Refusing to play and use very capable spot up shooters correctly. This would help the offense year in and year out.

An upgrade in the staff. Lucas was an obvious upgrade. But I'm not sure how good the rest are. Do they push Cal or are they yes men?

Take a look at your approach and your system. Is it working? Does it fit the times? Do players (the best of the best) really want to grind like this.

Stop trying to sell a mislabeled bill of goods. Slick and snarky talk is fine if you're on top. But when you are producing mediocrity you cannot afford to be that way.

Above all I think a true evaluation is needed and stop being so stubborn in so many things and ways.

Anything to add? Omit?

Jed when I see guys like you and @RunninRichie talking like this I know the rest of us aren't crazy. And our program has serious problems. Major problems for you to be so vocal.

 

[DanCat17]

And then lose because youth and repeat next year?

Shhhhh they won't mention that. They'll just throw up Cal's record pre-2015 and ignore the obvious downward spiral of this program post 2015.

And with that downward spiral, also went some of this fan bases expectations. I swear, I feel like I am on an Indiana message board with some of these posts. Have we really fallen so far as to pat ourselves on the back with moral victories? Have we really fallen so much as to not be upset with starting off the season 1-2 with a loss to a bad Kansas team and a ****ing mid-major?

How are we supposed to be okay with this? And don't tell me Cal will have them clicking by March. Because 1. We haven't made it past the Elite 8 since 2015 and 2. The team "clicking" doesn't just magically correct terrible shooting.

 

[jedwar]

Jed when I see guys like you and @RunninRichie talking like this I know the rest of us aren't crazy. And our program has serious problems. Major problems for you to be so vocal.

I'm genuinely concerned. I love UK basketball. I do not love what it's becoming. Cal can fix it and quickly. But is he too stubborn to do so.

 

[LukaszObrzut87]

I wish to God you fawktards would appreciate what a coach we have.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

We're eventually going to see 1AD go away, anyways... at least in the way we know it. G-League is taking it's cut of top25 players.. so is overseas.. so are other coaches with bribes.. the NBA is eventually going to take kids right from HS again.

It would be silly to change now, while there is still a plethora of top level talent to be had.. when that fades, probably 3-5 years, this fanbase will be so fed up with losing a November game that Morg will probably put out a hit on Calipari himself. Kidding aside, the end of the 1AD era will likely coincide with Cal's retirement. It's almost matching up perfectly.

.. and then, we can go get the next coach, focus more on offense and strategy and keep players around. That way, we can get back to the glory days of winning November games, being a pretty good team, and making a Final 4 once every decade.

 

[ZaytovenCat]

The reality is Cal is not going to change and really could care less what many on here think. This is exactly how it is every year, so you all jumping on here complaining about it is pure comedy gold.

We lost a terrible game last year to start the season. By the end of the year, people were riding high.

You all need to relax.

Yeah because we’ve been sky high to end the season the last 5+ years. 🙄

 

[westerncat]

I will probably get ripped for this but i am at the point where i am getting pissed seeing us lose games that we should not have. I could care less how this kids do after they leave UK and go to the pro's. I want to see UK win games and win NC.
I have been watching UK games since mid 60's and remember guys who stayed 4 years and could shoot lights out and was not a 5 star coming in but learned how to play basketball. I am at the point as i said in another post that i will be glad when this one and done is over.

 

[Blueworld_3.0]

I love how some of you have totally stopped caring about our accomplishments and have bought into the Cal propaganda that only the probable loss in March matters.

Let me tell a few of you something. The few left still pushing these tired lines.

HE DOES NOT WIN ENOUGH IN MARCH TO MAKE HIS TYPICAL EXCUSES ABOUT LOSING ALL OF HIS GAMES THROUGH FEB. THIS IS NOT 2014.

Okay, so. Some of you need to get yours heads out of the ass and come to grips with it. We can’t just let Cal lose 13 games a year with hopes his magical tournament run is around the corner. It’s not, and the games matter before then. Keeping our head to head agaisnt Kansas matters. Beating Tennessee, Auburn, and the rest of the SEC matters. “The list” matters.

I’m sick of this Cal speak coming from fans. The guy has sold lemons and you’re making lemonade for him.

^^^ THIS!
Honestly, it seems like some of our fans have no knowledge of what the program was in the decades before Cal arrived. UK Basketball didn't just happen. Those saying that only John Calipari could lead the program are insane. They're same people wanting to put his name on the building in place of Rupp. LOL!

The whole smug attitude and inside joke that the UK fan base is full of wacko's with unrealistic expectations has really worn thin. I don't expect UK to win every game but, when we are paying the coach $10 million and getting the top 2 or 3 recruiting classes every year, I damned well expect to win MOST of the games.

Those who say the Nov and Dec games are meaningless are simply drinking the Cal Kool-Aid. Why should Cal be given a break during the early games? They're on the schedule HE made. Oh, it's "the process", right? Well, maybe it's time to change up the damned process because, what Cal has been doing isn't working.

I really hope we aren't being setup for a whole new team every single year. Because the fan base already feels disconnected with the revolving door approach that Cal has saddled us with. 10 new faces every year and you might as well start playing UK home games in Memorial again. Interest will be incredibly low.

Cal isn't going to change EVER. his ego and stubbornness won't allow it. That would be the same as saying he was wrong in his style of recruiting and on-court strategy. He'd rather just keep collecting fat paychecks while tossing out cute hot-button phrases on radio shows and in TV interviews.

 

[ralphdaltonfan]

I love how some of you have totally stopped caring about our accomplishments and have bought into the Cal propaganda that only the probable loss in March matters.

Let me tell a few of you something. The few left still pushing these tired lines.

HE DOES NOT WIN ENOUGH IN MARCH TO MAKE HIS TYPICAL EXCUSES ABOUT LOSING ALL OF HIS GAMES THROUGH FEB. THIS IS NOT 2014.

Okay, so. Some of you need to get yours heads out of the ass and come to grips with it. We can’t just let Cal lose 13 games a year with hopes his magical tournament run is around the corner. It’s not, and the games matter before then. Keeping our head to head agaisnt Kansas matters. Beating Tennessee, Auburn, and the rest of the SEC matters. “The list” matters.

I’m sick of this Cal speak coming from fans. The guy has sold lemons and you’re making lemonade for him.

One thing that needs to be mentioned about making NCAA Tournament your end goal which at UK like a handful of other programs is the goal every year is regular season performance helps you have better chance to make a run when you are higher seed/win a lot of games. Means you can beat really good teams. The '17 team which was UK's last team that I felt was a favorite or should've won the National Title had to deal with a mini Final Four region because they pissed away games against Louisville, UCLA, and Kansas (2 of those being in Lexington). Can't give away games and then get higher seed. Those who argue the NCAA puts them in a tough region no matter what--I thought '18 and '19 brackets were perfect for Kentucky to make Final Four. But that gets omitted, every year it's like facing the Lakers, Heat, Celtics, Nuggets, etc.....which is not true at all.

Cal is a great coach and has forgotten more things than I or rest of board will know, but one thing he tends to do which is something a lot of highly intelligent people do--they forget what they did to be successful originally. You go to the Final Four 4 out of 5 years--play in 4 consecutive Final Fours--2 NC games and win a National Title in span of your only NCAA appearances 11-15--how did you get there? It wasn't just guys buying in later in year--it was by recruiting your ass off and getting elite college prospects-majority also being NBA high end talent or at least getting picked in 1st Round.

They were literally outworking everyone and engaged in wars on the recruiting trail knowing they'd do what it took to win them. Now you get the "if you don't like....this isn't for you...." which we all understand his point and agree, but it's a weak/tired slogan. You need to be ahead of people and re-brand yourself times over when at same program. Message doesn't need to change but how you present does and most importantly those middle guys carrying the message need to change and be upgraded. The Golden Boy (Justus) couldn't sell me a Covid Vaccine if it was 100% successful and I was on a respirator. He appeals to certain types....and I'm not a fan but that's my own personal take, and doesn't make it correct, just my own traits that I like to see in prospects and fit at Kentucky. But can't say I don't have some cause--the "Cali Kids" he's brought in...(Boston I'm not counting as he's from ATL) have not been fit for this program for whatever reason and 2 of them now have re-classed to just not do much to even consider pushing them to re-class.

 

[Woodrow_Call_1998]

Absolutely. Bunch of Chicken Littles running around here. We lost to two ranked teams in our first three games of the season running a roster without a single returning contributor (literally uncharted territory here) following an unprecedented pandemic off-season with limited practice sessions under controlled circumstances.

This is THE season when experienced teams should feast because they can just pick up where they left off.

We will be strong by the end of the season barring further unforeseen and unprecedented circumstances.

Your reason for the slow start is what some posters including myself have an issue with. The roster turnover each season is hard for any coach to overcome. I’ll never say Cal is a bad coach (he’s a good coach) but this one and done culture is way to hard to maintain. I wish Cal built rosters the way he did years ago actually.

Regardless, I hope your right and the team is strong by the end of the season.

 

[DerekMcPwn]

And then lose because youth and repeat next year?

You need to sit down. I checked some threads from a day before the Richmond game and you were literally, unironically predicting this team would win the national championship.

You are the exact kind of hyperreactionary person I’m designating a Chicken Little. Beat Morehead State: “We’re winning #9!” Lose to Richmond two days later: “Cal is washed up and the program is dead!”

Settle down and let the season unfold, you maniacs.

 

[crawfords corner]

You need to sit down. I checked some threads from a day before the Richmond game and you were literally, unironically predicting this team would win the national championship.

You are the exact kind of hyperreactionary person I’m designating a Chicken Little. Beat Morehead State: “We’re winning #9!” Lose to Richmond two days later: “Cal is washed up and the program is dead!”

Settle down and let the season unfold, you maniacs.

There's a board infestation of chicken littles.

 

[RunninRichie]

You need to sit down. I checked some threads from a day before the Richmond game and you were literally, unironically predicting this team would win the national championship.

You are the exact kind of hyperreactionary person I’m designating a Chicken Little. Beat Morehead State: “We’re winning #9!” Lose to Richmond two days later: “Cal is washed up and the program is dead!”

Settle down and let the season unfold, you maniacs.

i’ve always said we need experience. You cannot sit here and deny we didn’t look good on O against morehead. As we found it was just because morehead was a awful team. I’ve always felt this way but, I kept silent because I felt cal could turn it around and retain the second rounders and gleauge hall of famers. Well now it’s evident he has no plans to do that. my bad for not being happy we are 1-2 on the season, shooting 9/47 on 3s and have 31 assists to 52 TOs. Yeah, maybe I should just sit down for a little.

 

[Catman100]

Pitino is a terrible person with no morals, but he is one of the best coaches in college
Cal could not carry his jock when it comes to coaching ability

I have never really thought Pitino returning to UK was ever an option, but I wonder if he would be embraced if the opportunity came up.

 

[Cut-Nets21]

Cal is reminding me of a 40 year old tennis pro who is trying to hold on to a job based off of his 3 day pro tournament in Mexico 20 year ago. Honestly It makes some sense.

Jed, as you know, I said years ago if Cal didn’t adjust his recruiting methods we weren’t going to like the results. Well here we are.

next time the mods need to do a better job of getting people to listen to me.

Morg, i don't frequent the board as much as I did just a few short years ago, but when I do it's typically your posts and opinions that I agree with the most. Years ago I was handed ban after ban for expressing an opinion that seems to have become the norm on here now. Im not here to say "i told you all so" in reference to Cal, but I believe you and I both saw a crack in the dam years ago. Back then you could catch a ban for just questioning his methods (which was my position), now it appears that mods have changed as many are calling for Cal to hit the road. Its interesting to watch.


Here is the question I would urge fans to ask themselves; do Cal's recent teams, especially this year's team, look like they are built with the intent of winning a national title? Do you believe that Cal recruited this team based on his knowledge and experience of what a team needs in order to go the distance in March and April?


If you have even a hint of doubt that Cal built this team, and typically constructs his teams, with national titles in mind, then therein lies the problem.


When's the last time Cal discussed what it takes to win a National Title? When's the last time Cal discussed what it takes to be a great "college basketball team"? He doesn't. He discusses what it takes for these kids to make it to the next level. Which is not his job. When you bring this up you are labeled heartless and selfish because you "don't care about the kids but just yourself and Kentucky".


I think you have to ask yourself, what is Cal's true objective at Kentucky? Whats his true goal? If you listen to him; press conferences, interviews, podcasts, speeches, NBA draft appearances.....etc He's never lied to us about what it is.


The problem is, Cal's objective is hard to decipher. I know Coach K's; its to win a title. Roy Williams? Win a title. Tom Izzo, Bill Self, Jay Wright.....everyone knows they are trying to win College Basketball National Titles. What is Cal trying to do?

 

[LineSkiCat14]

One thing that needs to be mentioned about making NCAA Tournament your end goal which at UK like a handful of other programs is the goal every year is regular season performance helps you have better chance to make a run when you are higher seed/win a lot of games.

That's a great point. Every game is important when it comes to seeding. True.

.. but that's not what were hearing from a lot of these posters. I have yet to hear someone, until your post, mad about losing to Richmond or KU because of the seeding implications.

No, they just didn't like that Kentucky lost a game so early in the season, that they thought was inferior. The feeling in the room was that regular season is more important than post season. It's just so incredibly hard to have both of those. On one hand, experienced teams won't lose a lot of games in the regular season, but they aren't anything special come March... because if they were, they wouldn't be there anymore. On the reverse, new and talented teams are inexperienced, drop games early (which yes, do affect seeding) but they are always a contender in March.

The fact remains that the guys were longing for.. the Fran's, the Jay Wrights, and Bennetts... Only had small windows of success.

I wouldn't trade any of their last decade for ours. Not, not even Wright's who has 1 more title but was well short in Final 4's and Elite 8's.. also had several opening weekend losses.

Traditional coaching just isn't going to sustain Final4 possibilities for extended periods of time. You'll get a few teams overlapping that might be great.. and then you'll have ones that just aren't there.

FWIW, I'd take any of those 3 as Cal's replacement (maybe not Fran), but it's not going to make this fanbase happy after a few years. They aren't going to win any more Final 4's.. they just might not lose as much in the early season.

 

[RunninRichie]

That's a great point. Every game is important when it comes to seeding. True.

.. but that's not what were hearing from a lot of these posters. I have yet to hear someone, until your post, mad about losing to Richmond or KU because of the seeding implications.

No, they just didn't like that Kentucky lost a game so early in the season, that they thought was inferior. The feeling in the room was that regular season is more important than post season. It's just so incredibly hard to have both of those. On one hand, experienced teams won't lose a lot of games in the regular season, but they aren't anything special come March... because if they were, they wouldn't be there anymore. On the reverse, new and talented teams are inexperienced, drop games early (which yes, do affect seeding) but they are always a contender in March.

The fact remains that the guys were longing for.. the Fran's, the Jay Wrights, and Bennetts... Only had small windows of success.

I wouldn't trade any of their last decade for ours. Not, not even Wright's who has 1 more title but was well short in Final 4's and Elite 8's.. also had several opening weekend losses.

Traditional coaching just isn't going to sustain Final4 possibilities for extended periods of time. You'll get a few teams overlapping that might be great.. and then you'll have ones that just aren't there.

FWIW, I'd take any of those 3 as Cal's replacement (maybe not Fran), but it's not going to make this fanbase happy after a few years. They aren't going to win any more Final 4's.. they just might not lose as much in the early season.

I just want cal to get those second rounders and undraftees to stay. That’s all I want

 

[ralphdaltonfan]

That's a great point. Every game is important when it comes to seeding. True.

.. but that's not what were hearing from a lot of these posters. I have yet to hear someone, until your post, mad about losing to Richmond or KU because of the seeding implications.

No, they just didn't like that Kentucky lost a game so early in the season, that they thought was inferior. The feeling in the room was that regular season is more important than post season. It's just so incredibly hard to have both of those. On one hand, experienced teams won't lose a lot of games in the regular season, but they aren't anything special come March... because if they were, they wouldn't be there anymore. On the reverse, new and talented teams are inexperienced, drop games early (which yes, do affect seeding) but they are always a contender in March.

The fact remains that the guys were longing for.. the Fran's, the Jay Wrights, and Bennetts... Only had small windows of success.

I wouldn't trade any of their last decade for ours. Not, not even Wright's who has 1 more title but it well short in Final 4's and Elite 8's.

Traditional coaching just isn't going to sustain Final4 possibilities for extended periods of time. You'll get a few teams overlapping that might be great.. and then you'll have ones that just aren't there.

FWIW, I'd take any of those 3 as Cal's replacement (maybe not Fran), but it's not going to make this fanbase happy after a few years. They aren't going to win any more Final 4's.. they just might not lose as much in the early season.

The passion of the fans is what I enjoy and why I came here in first place, they care about the program and sport year around. Get why they are up/down after an early loss and my issue isn't the loss, it's how the game was played and they lost. Name a UK team from '10-'20 that doesn't beat Kansas last night with how poorly they played? Some of those teams would've had Kansas down 30 at Half with how poorly Kansas played. None would've have lost that game. Even the 13 team would've found a way to win that one. Not based on the UK team, but based on how poorly KU played.

That's the issue. I'm fine with tough schedules and understand you will drop a game or 2 because they are good opponents and it's youth driven program at UK etc.....BUT--when you look this clueless offensively and we're talking this team looks as if they just met a local health club and played pickup--only that would be better to watch as someone would've run pick and roll or pick and pop instead of whatever it is they are doing on that end. Also you have to hold young players accountable. When the decide to freelance and do what they want with the ball on offensive end, they have to come out of the game immediately and specifically when they let 1 negative play turn into 4 straight awful things in a row (BJ Boston bad shot or turnover-he trots back on defense, goes up with 1 arm for rebound which we know is a non negotiable with Cal and rightfully so, and then loses ball). Or Jackson staring a guy who is only guy scoring for KU and has hands down and is not close enough to run him off the line-resorts to firing up his own 3 because he was open in a 1 possession game because his ego was bruised he got lit up on other end.

At no point should this program have such rancid PG play. There's no excuse. You'd be better getting a lower recruited guy who is quick, can pass/break down defenses and pushes the tempo. Sick of the plodding/walk it up guards and if they refuse to push/run the ball up--find someone who will-if it's Kareem Watkins to make a point do it--see Roy Williams do this time to time-get pissed enough to put in walk ons and show starters/rotational guys that if you don't play how you are coached, you won't be on the court.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

the time to change has sailed. He's not changing. He created the beast (culture) that jumped the shark to swallow him whole.

matter of fact, Mitch Barnhart can be fired. I want cal going out with grace but I want Mitch being embarrassed by twice in his career watching UK basketball decline.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I just want cal to get those second rounders and undraftees to stay. That’s all I want

I think that's what we'll see. Although, Ware could sneak in. But Cal has been going deeper and deeper into the recruiting rankings to get guys. Still, he needs to ensure we have a team. So it will be interesting what happens with Askew, and incoming guys like Hickman, Clarke and Sallis. You can't turn those guys down

 

[RunninRichie]

I think that's what we'll see. Although, Ware could sneak in. But Cal has been going deeper and deeper into the recruiting rankings to get guys. Still, he needs to ensure we have a team. So it will be interesting what happens with Askew, and incoming guys like Hickman, Clarke and Sallis. You can't turn those guys down

Agree

 

[LineSkiCat14]

The passion of the fans is what I enjoy and why I came here in first place, they care about the program and sport year around. Get why they are up/down after an early loss and my issue isn't the loss, it's how the game was played and they lost. Name a UK team from '10-'20 that doesn't beat Kansas last night with how poorly they played? Some of those teams would've had Kansas down 30 at Half with how poorly Kansas played. None would've have lost that game. Even the 13 team would've found a way to win that one. Not based on the UK team, but based on how poorly KU played.

That's the issue. I'm fine with tough schedules and understand you will drop a game or 2 because they are good opponents and it's youth driven program at UK etc.....BUT--when you look this clueless offensively and we're talking this team looks as if they just met a local health club and played pickup--only that would be better to watch as someone would've run pick and roll or pick and pop instead of whatever it is they are doing on that end. Also you have to hold young players accountable. When the decide to freelance and do what they want with the ball on offensive end, they have to come out of the game immediately and specifically when they let 1 negative play turn into 4 straight awful things in a row (BJ Boston bad shot or turnover-he trots back on defense, goes up with 1 arm for rebound which we know is a non negotiable with Cal and rightfully so, and then loses ball). Or Jackson staring a guy who is only guy scoring for KU and has hands down and is not close enough to run him off the line-resorts to firing up his own 3 because he was open in a 1 possession game because his ego was bruised he got lit up on other end.

At no point should this program have such rancid PG play. There's no excuse. You'd be better getting a lower recruited guy who is quick, can pass/break down defenses and pushes the tempo. Sick of the plodding/walk it up guards and if they refuse to push/run the ball up--find someone who will-if it's Kareem Watkins to make a point do it--see Roy Williams do this time to time-get pissed enough to put in walk ons and show starters/rotational guys that if you don't play how you are coached, you won't be on the court.

Solid post, but you're making some assumptions. You can't say EVERY Kentucky team beats Kansas last night. We just don't know that. This season we started off with an injury to a starting player, which is something we've rarely had happen, and we also got our exhibition and lead up games erased. Those other Kentucky teams got more reps leading up to Kansas. Those games are HUGE for us. Every single game in a young season is. Further, we had a very important off-season coaching change.

I don't think this Kentucky team loses to that Kansas team in a normal year. Sure, I get the frustration of these young teams looking downright AWFUL to start the season sometimes... but it's really two things that stick out in my head: 1. The Evansville loss. and 2. This year's brand new team (even by our own standards) not getting enough time together because of COVID.

As for PG play, I don't think Askew is going to see meaningful minutes playing like this. Mintz is going get the nod more and more. Askew just isn't ready at this time.

 

[sambowieshin]

Pitino is a terrible person with no morals, but he is one of the best coaches in college
Cal could not carry his jock when it comes to coaching ability

So let me get this right....You are saying Cal can't carry the jock of the same coach that has a 2-10 record against Cal at UK, won exactly ZERO titles in all of his years since leaving UK, and who left college basketball in shame after hiring strippers to dance for recruits in the dorm named after his dead brother in law. Hilarious.
Sounds like you have been sniffing glue or dirty jocks with that analogy.

 

[Deli owl]

A successful person takes a honest assessment of what they are doing and how they are doing it in order to adapt and get better. It's time that is done now. What needs to be addressed?

Players leaving early year after year that should not be is killing us. It's obvious we need a blend of new guys and guys who can steady us etc.

Players transferring year in and year out. If they don't want to be here fine, but don't just make it the norm.

It's past time to make it about UK and not the player. That ship has sailed.

Refusing to play and use very capable spot up shooters correctly. This would help the offense year in and year out.

An upgrade in the staff. Lucas was an obvious upgrade. But I'm not sure how good the rest are. Do they push Cal or are they yes men?

Take a look at your approach and your system. Is it working? Does it fit the times? Do players (the best of the best) really want to grind like this.

Stop trying to sell a mislabeled bill of goods. Slick and snarky talk is fine if you're on top. But when you are producing mediocrity you cannot afford to be that way.

Above all I think a true evaluation is needed and stop being so stubborn in so many things and ways.

Anything to add? Omit?

I’ll see what I can do. 👀

 

[ralphdaltonfan]

Solid post, but you're making some assumptions. You can't say EVERY Kentucky team beats Kansas last night. We just don't know that. This season we started off with an injury to a starting player, which is something we've rarely had happen, and we also got our exhibition and lead up games erased. Those other Kentucky teams got more reps leading up to Kansas. Those games are HUGE for us. Every single game in a young season is. Further, we had a very important off-season coaching change.

I don't think this Kentucky team loses to that Kansas team in a normal year. Sure, I get the frustration of these young teams looking downright AWFUL to start the season sometimes... but it's really two things that stick out in my head: 1. The Evansville loss. and 2. This year's brand new team (even by our own standards) not getting enough time together because of COVID.

As for PG play, I don't think Askew is going to see meaningful minutes playing like this. Mintz is going get the nod more and more. Askew just isn't ready at this time.

Disagree. Even with scattered play, I'd take Jared Polson in '13 against Maryland and teams we saw them play when Harrow flaked out over anything I've seen and that includes Mintz-who has been just as bad at PG spot- arguably even worse considering he's in his 5th yr in CBB doing same goofy stuff when playing the point. The only time both have played well is when they played together with 1 of Clarke or Boston. No way is rest of '10-15 losing to this KU team last night. '16/'17 aren't. '18 isn't. '19 isn't. Last year would've played closer than it should've but won.

Kansas has had some really good teams-this isn't one of them. They are not very good. UK's offense is embarrassingly awful. Never seen a Kentucky team this lacking in basketball IQ and no excuses for it considering the staff has had them for 5 months and not left them at all--no recruiting visits, etc...so while I get what you are saying about exhibitions, lead up games, etc....this was awful because basketball 101 things were total failures like:

1. Playing low to high--specifically as a guard--UK point guards are upright all the time often standing straight up and down and just have balls taken from them or deflected. Add the new trend of them both throwing 10 foot bounce passes to guys ankles/feet to the wing.....

2. Meeting a pass by cutting hard and receiving it with force instead of jogging out and assuming nobody will defend them or moving their shoulders side to side as they stay in place like a bad HS team walkthrough.

3. No ball/shot fakes. Then having a teammate bring more defenders to the attempt for player with ball to drive into traffic and resort to an off balance heave.

4. Spacing is awful but that's understandable, but no communication with teammates and not like crowds are affecting that at all.

5. Dribbling before passing ahead to teammates--1 play symbolizes how selfish/bad they are. BJ Boston gets a loose ball and takes 2/3 dribbles before passing ahead to Clarke who gets a charge (thought it was a bad call) and if he just throws it ahead it's a layup/dunk. Boston ALWAYS dribbles when receiving the ball too.

6. Mintz receiving inbounds passes directly under his own basket and not fanning out to receive a pass and pushing the tempo. Who isn't taught in Junior High how to receive an inbounds pass? Specifically when you preach wanting to get up and down and push the tempo? To receive it under the low block in front of your own rim? WTF??

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

A successful person takes a honest assessment of what they are doing and how they are doing it in order to adapt and get better. It's time that is done now. What needs to be addressed?

Players leaving early year after year that should not be is killing us. It's obvious we need a blend of new guys and guys who can steady us etc.

Players transferring year in and year out. If they don't want to be here fine, but don't just make it the norm.

It's past time to make it about UK and not the player. That ship has sailed.

Refusing to play and use very capable spot up shooters correctly. This would help the offense year in and year out.

An upgrade in the staff. Lucas was an obvious upgrade. But I'm not sure how good the rest are. Do they push Cal or are they yes men?

Take a look at your approach and your system. Is it working? Does it fit the times? Do players (the best of the best) really want to grind like this.

Stop trying to sell a mislabeled bill of goods. Slick and snarky talk is fine if you're on top. But when you are producing mediocrity you cannot afford to be that way.

Above all I think a true evaluation is needed and stop being so stubborn in so many things and ways.

Anything to add? Omit?

Interesting and thoughtful points Jed.
I'd really like to hear what you have to say about HOW a coach is supposed to identify recruits that will stay for 3-4 years. Do you only take 3-star players? Maybe 4-star players? Do you think Cal expected Tyler Herro to blow up and go pro? I'd seriously like to hear more from you on this.

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

Disagree. Even with scattered play, I'd take Jared Polson in '13 against Maryland and teams we saw them play when Harrow flaked out over anything I've seen and that includes Mintz-who has been just as bad at PG spot- arguably even worse considering he's in his 5th yr in CBB doing same goofy stuff when playing the point. The only time both have played well is when they played together with 1 of Clarke or Boston. No way is rest of '10-15 losing to this KU team last night. '16/'17 aren't. '18 isn't. '19 isn't. Last year would've played closer than it should've but won.

Kansas has had some really good teams-this isn't one of them. They are not very good. UK's offense is embarrassingly awful. Never seen a Kentucky team this lacking in basketball IQ and no excuses for it considering the staff has had them for 5 months and not left them at all--no recruiting visits, etc...so while I get what you are saying about exhibitions, lead up games, etc....this was awful because basketball 101 things were total failures like:

1. Playing low to high--specifically as a guard--UK point guards are upright all the time often standing straight up and down and just have balls taken from them or deflected. Add the new trend of them both throwing 10 foot bounce passes to guys ankles/feet to the wing.....

2. Meeting a pass by cutting hard and receiving it with force instead of jogging out and assuming nobody will defend them or moving their shoulders side to side as they stay in place like a bad HS team walkthrough.

3. No ball/shot fakes. Then having a teammate bring more defenders to the attempt for player with ball to drive into traffic and resort to an off balance heave.

4. Spacing is awful but that's understandable, but no communication with teammates and not like crowds are affecting that at all.

5. Dribbling before passing ahead to teammates--1 play symbolizes how selfish/bad they are. BJ Boston gets a loose ball and takes 2/3 dribbles before passing ahead to Clarke who gets a charge (thought it was a bad call) and if he just throws it ahead it's a layup/dunk. Boston ALWAYS dribbles when receiving the ball too.

6. Mintz receiving inbounds passes directly under his own basket and not fanning out to receive a pass and pushing the tempo. Who isn't taught in Junior High how to receive an inbounds pass? Specifically when you preach wanting to get up and down and push the tempo? To receive it under the low block in front of your own rim? WTF??

7. Total lack of any pick and pop to relieve pressure on the suffering ball handler! The only example I can think of successfully delivered a smooth baseline jumper as a result.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

Tubby QUIT. That's right....Tubby is a quitter. Didn't even have the balls to face his own players and tell them he was leaving. Before slithering out in the dead of night to take the Minnesota job, he flirted with leaving for USCjr and Virginia.
He won a championship with players that already had mental toughness burned into them by the Pitino staff. Screw Tubby Smith.

Amen and thank you. Nobody ran Tubby off at UK . But he was fired at others schools. How many schools has he coached since leaving UK. Four?

His problem was not UK fans. He was his own problem

 

[clevenger32]

What happened after you all ran Tubby out? How quick many of you forget....

Tubby and Cal had one thing in common...stubborn and did not make winning at UK top priority. Once UK would not bend its Nepotism rule to bring on one of his sons as an assistant he no longer cared about UK and winning. If he did he would not have started recruiting players that we beat out American, Sienna, directional state, etc for. He blew it.

Hopefully Cal will reassess. I would not bet on it.

 

[Runnin'Ramel]

UK has basically become the NBA's other G-League Select program.

 

[Cut-Nets21]

UK has basically become the NBA's other G-League Select program.

And that's the thing, Cal doesn't deny this. Not in his recruiting, nor in how he communicates his intentions at UK.


It's why I asked in in earlier post in this thread; do you think Cal constructed this team with winning a national title in mind? Does Cal recruit players that he thinks will help UK win a national title? Does Cal advise any players on their futures with a national title for UK in mind?


I don't think it can be denied the quality of man that John Calipari is. He's a philanthropist at heart. He attends Mass habitually. He recruits high character kids. He told us himself that he's trying to pull kids out of generational poverty into potential generational wealth. He has never lied about that.


To put it bluntly, I think Cal's main objective at UK is to help get kids to the next level. He's trying to change lives. Thats it. I think in his mind if he wins a national title along the way, even better. But that's not really what's important to him.


I think once he won it in 2012, he was satisfied. And I think he made a promise to devote his life to being about others and helping these kids achieve their dreams. And its 100% a noble cause, but I think UK fans are awakening to the fact that it certainly doesn't serve their purposes, at the expense of being called selfish over the notion.


So with that being said, is Askew the type of kid that you recruit at PG with the intentions of winning a national title? Well if he stays till he's a junior and senior then he can certainly develop into that. But we all know that he won't, and its fairly clear, at least early on, that he's not anywhere close to being the type of PG to lead a national title contending team.


So I ask again, why would Cal recruit Askew knowing that he won't be good enough as a freshmen to lead us to a title, and yet he will still likely leave after a year or two? The answer?.....He didn't recruit him with the intentions of helping Kentucky build a team capable of winning a title. He recruited him because he has a high ranking out of high school, and Cal can take him, and others just like him, and get them to the next level. And that's all that matters. It's really that simple. And Cal's never lied to us about that.

 

[morgousky]

Lots of the same posters making the same arguments over and over again. Cal is one of the few coaches that can lead a program like Kentucky. The other ones out there that can will not come to Kentucky. Maybe Pitino would come back if we run off Cal.

All this talk of Billy Donovan, Brad Stevens, Jay Wright types coming here to coach comes from the truly delusional fans. Let's all reminisce about the old days....

I am more than content having Cal crapping some games away know what he beings to the table than risking it on another un-proven hire.

Cal's not kidding...you people are crazy.

Bullshit and you know it.

It used to be 4 or 5 of us, now it's 80% of the fan base or more. You're still lagging behind and drinking the koolaide.

BTW, We could get Beard tomorrow and I'd gladly make that change without a hesitation.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

Cal can do it, it’s just up to him if he wants to.

 

[morgousky]

I think it’s a bit disingenuous to assume that just because people aren’t completely fed up with things means they no longer care about winning or accomplishments. I know part of being a Kentucky fan is having unrealistic expectations, but it’s not like we’re fading into irrelevancy as a program or anything.

I have some criticisms of Cal too, but we’ve accomplished a hell of a lot during his tenure. You’re not going to win a championship every year. I agree that there are some valid concerns with how the last couple of seasons have gone, but other than keeping guys who aren’t NBA players around and modernizing the offense, I don’t know what else you could really ask for that could feasibly happen.

My issue is with the fans that are literally saying they don't care how many games we lose, how often we lose, or how many of our records we lose, as long as we do OK in march and have some sort of symbolic shot at a title that we rarely win.

Those accomplishments were fought for by the founders of this program. "The List" used to matter to all of us. Now, we're allowing Cal to convince us his losing is ok because he used to do well in the NCAA tournament. It's time for fans to hold him accountable or call for a change.

 

[morgousky]

I'm just shocked that Cal of all people is struggling because he refuses to change and adapt... I always thought that he was this "cutting edge" guy who would change with the times (like Nick Saban). Turns out he's just a stubborn old man.

I feel ya man, but really he used that as a recruiting pitch when he tried to use the DDMO as his schtick. It was just a recruiting tactic. He still ran the same system at Memphis without D Rose. Really the entire DDMO thing was a play to get Wall and Rose.

And even then, the DDMO was still not really anything "new school". Drive, drive, chest pass to a big for an easy 2, drive.........ect. It's still close to the same thing he does now. It's not but, the way he used it eh.

I was like you. I thought Cal was a cutting edge type. In reality he's not, he's just a good salesman. I wanted more for him, but Cal cares more about relationships with NBA players than winning at UK. It's just the way it is. I'd let him leave however he wants and move on after next year. Try and get Beard before he's at Kansas.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

I feel ya man, but really he used that as a recruiting pitch when he tried to use the DDMO as his schtick. It was just a recruiting tactic. He still ran the same system at Memphis without D Rose. Really the entire DDMO thing was a play to get Wall and Rose.

And even then, the DDMO was still not really anything "new school". Drive, drive, chest pass to a big for an easy 2, drive.........ect. It's still close to the same thing he does now. It's not but, the way he used it eh.

I was like you. I thought Cal was a cutting edge type. In reality he's not, he's just a good salesman. I wanted more for him, but Cal cares more about relationships with NBA players than winning at UK. It's just the way it is. I'd let him leave however he wants and more on after next year. Try and get Beard before he's at Kansas.

I think Beard is already looking at property in Kansas. That’s probably over.

 

[morgousky]

I think Beard is already looking at property in Kansas. That’s probably over.

We will I've to regret keeping Cal and allowing Beard to go to Kansas. The few fans Cal has left buying his shit will see that in time.

 

[morgousky]

Solid post, but you're making some assumptions. You can't say EVERY Kentucky team beats Kansas last night. We just don't know that. This season we started off with an injury to a starting player, which is something we've rarely had happen, and we also got our exhibition and lead up games erased. Those other Kentucky teams got more reps leading up to Kansas. Those games are HUGE for us. Every single game in a young season is. Further, we had a very important off-season coaching change.

I don't think this Kentucky team loses to that Kansas team in a normal year. Sure, I get the frustration of these young teams looking downright AWFUL to start the season sometimes... but it's really two things that stick out in my head: 1. The Evansville loss. and 2. This year's brand new team (even by our own standards) not getting enough time together because of COVID.

As for PG play, I don't think Askew is going to see meaningful minutes playing like this. Mintz is going get the nod more and more. Askew just isn't ready at this time.

I know for some reason you like Gonzo's takes ( I think you vastly overrate his abilities as a basketball mind), but Randolph is the most knowledgeable poster on this board.

Line I think you need to rewatch the game. If every UK team doesn't win that one, most do easily. Askew is transfer bait too.

Man I want Beard.